Adrian Caspersz wrote:

AK47 door bell system - Colin Furze
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuY1gDC-l50

Did anybody notice that his underground construction has got
through the first round of "Shed of the Year"?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 13/09/2017 14:49, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 13:40:07 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 05:25:49 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

you could use rechargble AAAs

I don't need to, I can use the rechargeable C cells?

OK for me they'd have seemed a bit pricey for the use they are put to.
We have over a dozen DMMs we stopped using partly because they used 6 X C cells.
C cells are about 4x the price of AA/AAA.

The chargers are more expensive, and you may only have the AA/AAA type.
Maplin sell battery converters than hold AA cells and are the size of C
(or D) cells. (For that matter, judging from the mAh rating C and D
rechargeables may be AA batteries in oversized cases. AA batteries can
be up to 2400 mAh.)

--
Max Demian

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 09:52:26 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:43:34 +0100, Muddymike wrote:

On 12/09/2017 14:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:23 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 11/09/2017 23:45, wrote:
[quoted text muted]
We found their number reduced greatly after small but clear "No Cold
Caller" signs above letterbox and bell-push

10% of our callers use the bell push. The rest just knock.

Why do they do that? I can't here a knock on the door from my desk but
one of the doorbell chimes is just outside the room I work in.

Mike

As I have said upthread, when challenged, the only answer I have got is
"sometimes they don't work".

yep I got that as well

"so push the bloody thing to find out first you ******"

tim

Problem is that still doesn't prove it's working, because you might not be
able to hear an indoor bell from outside

but in my case, I know that you/they can

tim

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 15:08:11 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 11:55:57 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 10:51:45 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Eager
writes
I am
torn between a voice intoning "the bell has been activated,
please
wait"
and the start of 'Time' from Dark Side of the Moon.

Much more fun to have excerpts from random tracks :

Dave Edmonds, I hear you knocking
Anita Ward, Ring my bell
Little Richard, Keep a knocking
A loop of 'Go Away' from Go Away Little Girl

etc. :-)

Dunno, I'd prefer it use facial recognition so I know
who has pressed the button so I can choose to
ignore the worst of the god botherers if I choose to.

And recognise uniforms like the cops and those likely
to be showing up to tell you your place is on fire etc.

You'd need the fire brigade turn up in a uniform to tell yuo that
yuo
have
a fire in your home ?

Nope, but if it happens that an obscure part of the place
is on fire and I havent noticed, that could be handy.

I guess it would but how would the fire brigade know ?

Someone else reported it to them.

So someone else notices a fire in an obsure part of your
house, but doesn't tell you and rings the fire brigade.

Makes sense to get the fire brigade there as soon as possible
and they may not be able to get you to come to the door
because you dont hear them knocking on the front door etc.

The fireys can be a lot more aggressive about getting into
the house if they dont get a response when they knock.

Face recignition would be fun though as you could have
particular greeting or if unrecogniswd just say "**** off".

Or have the system be selective about who it tells me about
like when I am having a snooze and dont want to be told
about the joveys, but do about the cops etc if they show up.

well the iphone X could do that accroding to the tech specs
I glanced over it says it has body & face detection.

IMO it would be better done with the surveillance cameras
and that could go much further and recognise when a courier
van has showed up too, even using the branding on the van etc.

Have yuo seen te4h price of these cams

Yep.

they are about twice that of a iphone X

Plenty have them anyway.

and that excluded the servers.

They dont all need servers. And its a small
part of the total cost of the house anyway.

I do want to be woken by the courier van showing up, but not
when its someone I know. I've got everyone I know well trained
to know that I do have a nap every day. They can usually see me
when they show up at the big patio door that is my front door,
and know not to knock unless they can actually see me. It would
be even better if the surveillance system did all that auto, tell
those who it recognises as regulars that I am having a nap so
that when I'm not visible thru the main patio door it would
know that I'm out the back doing the tomatoes or the beer etc.

And could notify my mobile with the courier or posty so I could
tell them over the phone where to leave the item if I want to do that.

I;d find it more convinet to have a system like a post box outside that
could be locked or unlocked from my smartphone anywhere in the world.

Trouble is some stuff is too big to go in one of those.
The last lot of grog I bought online was much too big
to put in what is sensible to have locked box wise.

The postman can then leave the parcel
their no need for me to come to the door

Doesnt work for stuff you have to sign for.

Once you have the surveillance cameras and alarm
system, easy enough to have it do the other fancy
stuff too and wouldnt cost any more hardware wise.

Leaves stupid dinosaur primitive bells and door knockers for dead.

But it could cost thousands.

Many have that anyway with their surveillance equipment.
Might as well use that to replace dinosaur bells and knockers
and get a vastly better overall result.

On 13/09/17 12:08, Roger Hayter wrote:


Having done regular house calls for some years I understand the dilemma.
If you press the bell and hear nothing, what do you do? If the bell is
not working you then need to wait a long time (which is a nuisance if
you are in a hurry) as knocking too soon sounds rude if the bell did in
fact go off in a distant part of the house. My solution was to ring
the bell and immediately knock as well (unless I actually heard a fairly
loud bell). And you still get criticised for that. It is impossible
to win with some people.


I have a bell, no knocker. It's a brass bell with a piece of string to
pull, the whole mechanism is out in the porch in full view. Most people
still hammer on the door.

--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 15:31:44 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 13:47:09 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 03:47:41 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 11:20:42 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 02:52:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 08:12:29 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
In message , Bob Eager
writes
I am
torn between a voice intoning "the bell has been activated,
please
wait"
and the start of 'Time' from Dark Side of the Moon.

Much more fun to have excerpts from random tracks :

Dave Edmonds, I hear you knocking Anita Ward, Ring my bell
Little
Richard, Keep a knocking A loop of 'Go Away' from Go Away Little
Girl

I'd have "Hey dude visitors" from southparks first episode anal
probe.
You can buy kits that allow you to record your own messages.

I can do that anyway. It's just an MP3 on the server. Pick up an
internal phone, dial 898 and record the message. Run a shell script
to
convert formats and rename it.

I wouldn't need to run a server to do that, I'd use a chip to store
the
audio data.

Of course. So would I if that's all it did.

That's all I'd really want my doorbellk to do.

But it's integrated with the
PBX, and the bell push actually rings all the phones in the house .

I'd hate that, not know or being sure if someone was phoning me or
someone
at the front door.

Trivial to have a different ring tone for the two different types of
thing.

but ringtones can only be activated from a phonecall,

Nope, any decent system can produce it from any input.

so your doorbell would have to activate
a phone call to your mobile number

Nope, Plenty of the better system allow a contact closure
to trigger it too. In spades with alarm systems.

and that number would be fixed

Nope, most obviously when the door button is actually
done with what is a phone with no keyboard and screen
etc. Trivially buyable for peanuts now. It has its own number.
And no fixed monthly cost either.

unless yuo could use your contact app could in some way
recongnise the person at the door then ID that person with
the person ringing the doorbell.

All it has to do is is work out someone pressed the bell button.

Or even have a movement sensor at the front door.

Or a vibration sensor on the door so
that it detects when someone knocks.

My mobile phone announces who is calling too,

Only because it knows who is calling you from their phone.

No reason why the system can't be designed to say 'front door' when
someone presses the bell there or the PIR detects movement there.

If I call someone from another phone the reciving
phone doesnlt know it's me it thinks I'm someone else.

Depends on how you call. The better systems send an image
of the person making the call from the selfy camera when
making the call so you can see who is calling whatever
phone they use to call with.

very handy when you are doing something and prefer to
decide whether to answer immediately or call them back later.

Providing your sure it the same person who owes or usese that phone.

Not if it send a photo of who is using the phone.

When I get a phone call from a friend I've no idea whether
ehe's ringing or she's ringing until I hear a voice.

Because you are too stupid to use the best calling apps.

(and a garden bell). Guarantees we
will hear it. Also logs the date and time.

That would be useful but if I were going that far I'd go
back to a webcam on the door so recording everything.

I'd use the surveillance cameras instead.

I would do to if it weren't for the high price.

Peanuts compared with what the house is worth.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 13/09/2017 13:08, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:48:03 +0100, charles
wrote:

snip

calling, by arrangement to collect something, I rang the bell - no reply
so
I tried again - no reply so I knowed. Went back to my car and found a
phone
number - rang and got voicemail, so I wa s about to drive away when my
phone rang - Oh I was in the shower. no, the doorbell doesn't work.

And not that uncommon (and hence why people knock / flap etc).

This
at a house which two expensive cars outside - both with personalised
number platesso perhaps they couldn't afford to get a new door bell.

Maybe vanity means more to them than visitors ... or because they have
spent all their money on their vanity they can't afford to pay someone
to look at it for them (as they probably wouldn't know, or be bothered
to look into what to do themselves)? ;-)

We have rechargeable batteries in our main (wired) doorbell unit and
as they go flat the 'Ding-dong' randomly just becomes a 'Ding'. At
that point I get the second set of 4 x rechargeable C cells into the
bell unit and put the others on charge. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

We just a a proper bell transformer in the electricity cupboard. It lights
the bell-push up as well so visitors are more likely to see it. My wife
can be a bit anti-social at time though, so she often doesn't answer at
all while I am out at work!

Thats because she is too busy being ****ed by the milkman etc.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 06:49:49 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

C cells seem a bit OTT

Why does it?

Because C cells were for larger short curent usage, those and D cells were standard in the days you had to drive a mechanical a solendiod that hit two bells alterantively.

Bing bong!

https://www.friedland.co.uk/EN-GB/CH...ages/D107.aspx

That doesn't indicate recharchable cells are required.

Correct.

Cs & Ds were used for long life with interminatend discharge.

Correct.

It just seems a bit of a waste to use C recharables that's all.

You sound like a Brexiteer ... jumping to conclusions without any idea
of the facts (it seems). ;-(



you could use rechargble AAAs

I don't need to, I can use the rechargeable C cells?

OK for me they'd have seemed a bit pricey for the use they are put to.

Pricier than multiple alkaline cells?

We have over a dozen DMMs we stopped using partly because they used 6 X C cells.
C cells are about 4x the price of AA/AAA.

And one set of alkaline can be more expensive than the same in Ni-Mh.



you could also use a solar panel to recharge the batteries.

I could, but it's much easier just recharging them as required than
buying, fitting and wiring a solar panel.

So you need 4 in the bell unit

Correct.

and 4 on charge

'On charge'? No, charged when taken out and re-charged just before
they replace the old ones.

that's about £30+ worth of batteries just seems a lot to me.

Yes, it would be at your prices.

I had a simialar bell cheap alkaline lasted over 3 years and I only needed 4 at a time.

Well done you.


A windmill might do it too. ;-)

Is that you harry?

cough of course not but well done for buying a white doorbell ;-)

;-)

A couple of years ago a student project was to make something that could be powered by renewable energy a combined doorbell and letter box was designed.
Using a solar panel and a detector on the letter flap that would if activated send you an email that you'd got post, the students never did understand why I found this funny.

I'm sure they didn't.

Then you'd have free doorbell power and help save the enviorment.

Solar panels save the environment? Since when?

It's a difficult one to work out.

It is so I'll not hold my breath that you will. ;-)

Did yuo work out the enviomental ineffcicny of producing an extra 4 cells.

No, go on, tell me?

I don't supose yuo saw Horizon the othernight with prof cox calculating the infrastructure power wise needed to replace everything with re-newable.

I didn't need to ... it's nothing that a few nukes couldn't fix right
now and for years and years ...

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:09:24 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

We just a a proper bell transformer in the electricity cupboard.

I did have one once, took it out for some reason (maybe it went wrong)
and went battery.

It
lights the bell-push up as well so visitors are more likely to see it.

That's the last thing we need, visitors. ;-)

My wife can be a bit anti-social at time though, so she often doesn't
answer at all while I am out at work!

I'm with her ... unless it's a delivery of course. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:12:34 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

On 13/09/2017 14:49, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 13:40:07 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 05:25:49 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

you could use rechargble AAAs

I don't need to, I can use the rechargeable C cells?

OK for me they'd have seemed a bit pricey for the use they are put to.
We have over a dozen DMMs we stopped using partly because they used 6 X C cells.
C cells are about 4x the price of AA/AAA.

The chargers are more expensive, and you may only have the AA/AAA type.

I had Ansmann Energy 16 and 8 chargers already (that do 6 and 4 D
cell).

Maplin sell battery converters than hold AA cells and are the size of C
(or D) cells. (For that matter, judging from the mAh rating C and D
rechargeables may be AA batteries in oversized cases.

Some are that's true.

AA batteries can
be up to 2400 mAh.)

Can be up to 2900 mAh. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:31:17 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

But it's integrated with the PBX, and the bell push actually rings
all the phones in the house .

I'd hate that, not know or being sure if someone was phoning me or
someone at the front door.

Trivial to have a different ring tone for the two different types of
thing.

but ringtones can only be activated from a phonecall, so your doorbell
would have to activate a phone call to your mobile number and that
number would be fixed unless yuo could use your contact app could in
some way recongnise the person at the door then ID that person with the
person ringing the doorbell.

Who said anything about a mobile? I'm talking about within the house. And
I've written software so that the doorbell activates a process in the PBX
that initiates the phone call. (the doorbell is connected via an Arduino).

(and a
garden bell). Guarantees we will hear it. Also logs the date and
time.

That would be useful but if I were going that far I'd go back to a
webcam on the door so recording everything.

I'd use the surveillance cameras instead.

I would do to if it weren't for the high price.

The logs are really useful for a quick check. I usually want to know if
my son has missed a caller while I was out. I have a command that shows
the last ten uses of the doorbell, which beats scanning the video
recording.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:44:36 +0100, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Adrian Caspersz wrote:

AK47 door bell system - Colin Furze
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuY1gDC-l50

Did anybody notice that his underground construction has got through the
first round of "Shed of the Year"?

Yes. Just watched the most recent episode!

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 13/09/2017 21:26, Rod Speed wrote:


"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 13/09/2017 13:08, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:48:03 +0100, charles
wrote:

snip

calling, by arrangement to collect something, I rang the bell - no
reply so
I tried again - no reply so I knowed. Went back to my car and found
a phone
number - rang and got voicemail, so I wa s about to drive away when my
phone rang - Oh I was in the shower. no, the doorbell doesn't work.

And not that uncommon (and hence why people knock / flap etc).

This
at a house which two expensive cars outside - bothÂ* with personalised
number platessoÂ* perhaps they couldn't afford to get a new door bell.

Maybe vanity means more to them than visitors ... or because they have
spent all their money on their vanity they can't afford to pay someone
to look at it for them (as they probably wouldn't know, or be bothered
to look into what to do themselves)? ;-)

We have rechargeable batteries in our main (wired) doorbell unit and
as they go flat the 'Ding-dong' randomly just becomes a 'Ding'. At
that point I get the second set of 4 x rechargeable C cells into the
bell unit and put the others on charge. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

We just a a proper bell transformer in the electricity cupboard. It
lights the bell-push up as well so visitors are more likely to see it.
My wife can be a bit anti-social at time though, so she often doesn't
answer at all while I am out at work!

Thats because she is too busy being ****ed by the milkman etc.

We do joke about that, having three kids, but at the time we had a
postwoman and a milkwoman.

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 13/09/2017 21:26, Rod Speed wrote:


"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 13/09/2017 13:08, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:48:03 +0100, charles
wrote:

snip

calling, by arrangement to collect something, I rang the bell - no
reply so
I tried again - no reply so I knowed. Went back to my car and found a
phone
number - rang and got voicemail, so I wa s about to drive away when my
phone rang - Oh I was in the shower. no, the doorbell doesn't work.

And not that uncommon (and hence why people knock / flap etc).

This
at a house which two expensive cars outside - both with personalised
number platesso perhaps they couldn't afford to get a new door bell.

Maybe vanity means more to them than visitors ... or because they have
spent all their money on their vanity they can't afford to pay someone
to look at it for them (as they probably wouldn't know, or be bothered
to look into what to do themselves)? ;-)

We have rechargeable batteries in our main (wired) doorbell unit and
as they go flat the 'Ding-dong' randomly just becomes a 'Ding'. At
that point I get the second set of 4 x rechargeable C cells into the
bell unit and put the others on charge. ;-)

We just a a proper bell transformer in the electricity cupboard. It
lights the bell-push up as well so visitors are more likely to see it.
My wife can be a bit anti-social at time though, so she often doesn't
answer at all while I am out at work!

Thats because she is too busy being ****ed by the milkman etc.

We do joke about that, having three kids, but at the time we had a
postwoman and a milkwoman.

That's just the disguise they wore so they could
have it away without raising any suspicion.

Adam has that kit in his safe in his van too.

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 14:49:53 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:

I don't need to, I can use the rechargeable C cells?

OK for me they'd have seemed a bit pricey for the use they are put to.
We have over a dozen DMMs we stopped using partly because they used 6 X C cells.
C cells are about 4x the price of AA/AAA.

So put AA rechrgeables in them. I saw the convertors in Poundland a while ago, or they're cheap online, as are low cost NiMH AAs.


NT

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:09:24 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

====snip====


We just a a proper bell transformer in the electricity cupboard. It
lights the bell-push up as well so visitors are more likely to see it.
My wife can be a bit anti-social at time though, so she often doesn't
answer at all while I am out at work!

ISTR making this point before but I reckon the cost of the 16 alkaline
AA cells amortised over the 15 or more years it took to turn the pair of
8 cell battery holders bought as part of a "Lucky Dip" bag of bits from
Tandy over quarter of a century ago, into a corroded lump was less than
the 30 to 50 quid's worth of electricity that would likely have been
consumed during that time by your typical bell transformer alone (never
mind the additional quarter to half watt consumption of a bell push lamp).

When that pack of 16 AA cells finally started to show signs of exhaustion
[1], it occurred to me that the excess WH capacity had largely been
dissipated as self discharge losses rather than as useful "bell ringing
energy" so I decided to consider a more cost effective alternative to
replacing the pair of 8 x AA cell battery holders plus *another* bunch of
long life alkaline cells.

Remembering those packs of three PP3 batteries I'd seen in Poundland (or
Poundworld - it's one *or* the other) which merely needed a couple of
battery straps to convert each pack into a 27 volt battery[2], complete
with handy hole by which to hang them off the supporting screw in the
door frame as used by the original 16 cell battery pack, I invested in 3
or 4 such packs of these cheap Zinc/Carbon PP3s so that I could store the
surplus in the freezer[3] ready to replace the first pack in maybe
another 3 to 6 years time.

Although the cost of electrical energy provided by primary cells (AA
alkaline cells and the like) is some 3 or 4 orders of magnitude greater
than that of mains electricity, the losses in a bell transformer can
range from a low of half a watt with a high quality unit to as high as 2
or 3 watts with a cheap 'n' cheerful unit typical of those 30 to 40 year
old units to be found in many semi detached Victorian and post war
properties. Such 'waste energy'[4] represents a range of 1 to 5 quid a
year in running costs which can exceed the running costs of a simple
battery powered bell which only draws current whenever the bell push is
operated.

[1] I use an ex-GPO 12 to 24v trembler bell mounted on the front door
frame which can be heard not only in all the ground floor rooms but by
the caller as well. My choice of bell was entirely a pragmatic one - we
needed a door bell and I already had that ex-GPO trembler bell going
spare, along with those Tandy sourced 8 x AA cell battery holders. All
that was lacking was a a simple bell push, about a yard or so of 'bell
wire', two or three wood screws and a set of AA cells.

It was a quick, cheap and cheerful, yet effective solution. I wasn't
bothered by the initial battery investment since I knew it was likely to
last a decade or more between battery changes. Unfortunately when
working in a first floor bedroom converted to office use, I couldn't
always hear the front door bell if I happened to be auditioning or
editing multimedia files whilst the door was closed.

To address this issue, I added a wireless door chime to the system,
wiring the bell to the internally mounted battery powered wireless bell
push using a 12v zenner dropper[2] and blocking diode to safely power it
from the 24v volt battery pack so that the chime unit in the office was
effectively slaved from the original door bell.

I kept the miniature 12v battery installed in the wireless bell push to
facilitate testing and to allow SWMBI to announce her return after
crossing the front door threshold independently of ringing the front door
bell itself (usually when she wants assistance with bringing the shopping
in from the car).

[2] The extra 3 volts is neither here nor there as far as the 12/24 volt
trembler bell is concerned (indeed, it offers a useful, if modest, boost
in loudness). However, the 12v wireless bell push required a change of
zenner dropper from 12 to 15 volts to protect it from those additional
extra volts.

The major appeal of these packs of 3 PP3 batteries, despite the need to
solder a couple of battery straps, was the reduction in bulk compared to
the original 24 volt battery pack and, more importantly, the complete
elimination of the risk of corroded battery holder contacts which had
rendered the original AA cell holders unusable.

[3] According to Wikipedia (and other sources), zinc carbon cells can be
safely stored in a freezer without harm, vastly extending their shelf
life. I've sealed the batteries in polyethylene bags and placed them in a
Tupperware styled plastic box for extra protection at the bottom of the
bread compartment in our chest freezer. By all accounts, this should keep
them in good condition for a few decades yet.

Although I've recently spotted that these cheap Zn/C PP3s are still on
sale in packs of 3, my main concern at the time, a few years ago now, was
that such a convenient "ready made 27 volt battery pack" looked in danger
of becoming extinct, leaving just the 2 pack size as the Darwinian
successor in *every* Pound shop rather than in just most such emporia,
hence my hoarding another 2 or 3 packs in the freezer.

[4] This 'waste energy' would have been a major contribution to the 30
and 40 year plus life spans of these ancient bell transformers since it
not only kept damp out of the windings, it also minimised temperature
cycling which reduced the incidence of "Green Spot" failures which often
afflicted the mains primary or HT secondary windings in valved (tubed)
radios of the period.

There's no sense in fretting over this 'waste of electricity' since you
can take the entirely rational view that this unavoidable and modest
increase in annual expenditure on the electricity bill is simply the
price of ensuring a long and trouble free bell transformer service life.

--
Johnny B Good

On 13/09/2017 15:07, Rod Speed wrote:

IMO it would be better done with the surveillance cameras
and that could go much further and recognise when a courier
van has showed up too, even using the branding on the van etc.

Your scheme will fall at the first hurdle if you try and use branding
information.

The last couple of (non-royal mail) deliveries I've had have turned up
have been by private car.

I used to work close by an Amazon delivery hub where up to 50 vans would
turn up early in the morning. They were all anonymous (no branding)
apart from the 'standby' hired vans which carried the branding of the
hire company.

I've been to other smaller delivery company depots to pick up failed
deliveries and noticed also that the the fleet of vans has no branding.
Some of the depots (industrial estate units) have been hard to find,
even given the address, because they prefer to remain outwardly
anonymous to the opportunist thief.


And could notify my mobile with the courier or posty so I could
tell them over the phone where to leave the item if I want to do that.

Leaves stupid dinosaur primitive bells and door knockers for dead.

And it will be systems like that yours that ensures that you will always
get knocked as the delivery drivers don't want to **** around jumping
through your hoops. Alternatively you will get the reputation of not
answering and you will always get 'we tried to deliver' card through the
letter box which these days with distant centralised distribution depots
could be a bigger nuisance.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 13/09/2017 20:58, Rod Speed wrote:


Doesnt work for stuff you have to sign for.


Don't most delivery drivers sign on your behalf because it's much
quicker that way when they only have 5 minutes to make each delivery,
incl travelling time between deliveries?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Johnny B Good wrote:

the cost of the 16 alkaline AA cells [...] was less than the 30 to 50
quid's worth of electricity that would likely have been consumed
during that time by your typical bell transformer alone (never mind
the additional quarter to half watt consumption of a bell push
lamp).
I prefer a lit push button, so batteries are out, and I've replaced the
incandescent bulb with a pair of LEDs.

I'm sure we all know friends who have dodgy doorbells "sorry we keep
meaning to replace the battery" that you can see why the couriers tend
to knock instead of, or as well as, ringing ...

alan_m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

IMO it would be better done with the surveillance cameras
and that could go much further and recognise when a courier
van has showed up too, even using the branding on the van etc.

Your scheme will fall at the first hurdle if you try and use branding
information.

I'm not convinced if you have it learn.

The last couple of (non-royal mail) deliveries I've had have turned up
have been by private car.

Sure, but it can learn that too and not all couriers do that.

I used to work close by an Amazon delivery hub where up to 50 vans would
turn up early in the morning. They were all anonymous (no branding) apart
from the 'standby' hired vans which carried the branding of the hire
company.

Ours are all branded.

I've been to other smaller delivery company depots to pick up failed
deliveries and noticed also that the the fleet of vans has no branding.
Some of the depots (industrial estate units) have been hard to find, even
given the address, because they prefer to remain outwardly anonymous to
the opportunist thief.

Ours are all obviously branded.

And could notify my mobile with the courier or posty so I could
tell them over the phone where to leave the item if I want to do that.

Leaves stupid dinosaur primitive bells and door knockers for dead.

And it will be systems like that yours that ensures that you will always
get knocked as the delivery drivers don't want to **** around jumping
through your hoops.

There are no hoops. Mine would have all of PIR, a button
that anyone is free press, vibration detector on the door to
detect those who insist on knocking, vehicle recognition etc.

Alternatively you will get the reputation of not answering

But I would have the system tell the ****er that I can see him
carding me without bothering to knock or ring the bell and
can have it announce that he's been noticed by the PIR and
that I am coming to the door.

and you will always get 'we tried to deliver' card through the letter box

Any ****er trying that will get told that he has been observed
doing that without knocking on the door or pressing the bell
and that his employer will be getting the video footage of him
doing that in seconds.

which these days with distant centralised distribution depots

Ours arent.

could be a bigger nuisance.

In reality when the ****er has been told he's just been recorded
carding without knocking or ringing the bell or tossing the parcel
over the fence etc, he'll get his act into gear and wait for me to
come to the door.

alan_m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Doesnt work for stuff you have to sign for.

Don't most delivery drivers sign on your behalf because it's much quicker
that way when they only have 5 minutes to make each delivery, incl
travelling time between deliveries?

Ours dont, because you sign a portable electronic terminal
they bring to the door and that signature is sent to your phone
or by email if you specify that you are tracking the delivery.

And my system would record the ****er signing for it himself
and I would send his employer the footage if he was that stupid.

On 15/09/2017 08:38, Rod Speed wrote:

which these days with distant centralised distribution depots

Ours arent.

You must be extremely lucky. I live in town of around 200,000 people. I
don't believe any carrier has a depot locally. Around half have a depot
(for failed delivery collection) 15 miles away and the other half around
30 miles away. Even Royal Mail sorting has been moved from local to 30
miles away although there is a failed delivery collection point fairly
local. The distance to the depots may only be a problem if electing to
have items delivered to a home address rather than to a collection point
in a local supermarkets etc.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

which these days with distant centralised distribution depots

Ours arent.

You must be extremely lucky.

Nope, all of ours are like that.

I live in town of around 200,000 people. I
don't believe any carrier has a depot locally.

We have at least 5 in a town of 40K

Around half have a depot (for failed delivery collection)
15 miles away and the other half around 30 miles away.

Our closest towns are much further away than that.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 07:38:34 +0100, alan_m wrote:

On 13/09/2017 15:07, Rod Speed wrote:

IMO it would be better done with the surveillance cameras and that
could go much further and recognise when a courier van has showed up
too, even using the branding on the van etc.

Your scheme will fall at the first hurdle if you try and use branding
information.

The last couple of (non-royal mail) deliveries I've had have turned up
have been by private car.

I used to work close by an Amazon delivery hub where up to 50 vans would
turn up early in the morning. They were all anonymous (no branding)
apart from the 'standby' hired vans which carried the branding of the
hire company.

I've been to other smaller delivery company depots to pick up failed
deliveries and noticed also that the the fleet of vans has no branding.
Some of the depots (industrial estate units) have been hard to find,
even given the address, because they prefer to remain outwardly
anonymous to the opportunist thief.

I had a ParcelForce delivery this week. Hired white van.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 20:22:45 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 09:52:26 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:43:34 +0100, Muddymike wrote:

On 12/09/2017 14:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:23 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 11/09/2017 23:45, wrote:
[quoted text muted]
We found their number reduced greatly after small but clear "No Cold
Caller" signs above letterbox and bell-push

10% of our callers use the bell push. The rest just knock.

Why do they do that? I can't here a knock on the door from my desk but
one of the doorbell chimes is just outside the room I work in.

Mike

As I have said upthread, when challenged, the only answer I have got is
"sometimes they don't work".

yep I got that as well

"so push the bloody thing to find out first you ******"

tim

Problem is that still doesn't prove it's working, because you might not be
able to hear an indoor bell from outside

but in my case, I know that you/they can

It's similar to the way they test our fire alarms at about 8am when there's no one here to hear them. I think they got confused with trees falling in forests or something.

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 20:58:27 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message


You'd need the fire brigade turn up in a uniform to tell yuo that
yuo
have
a fire in your home ?

Nope, but if it happens that an obscure part of the place
is on fire and I havent noticed, that could be handy.

I guess it would but how would the fire brigade know ?

Someone else reported it to them.

So someone else notices a fire in an obsure part of your
house, but doesn't tell you and rings the fire brigade.

Makes sense to get the fire brigade there as soon as possible
and they may not be able to get you to come to the door
because you dont hear them knocking on the front door etc.

Well yes you couldm have been in the obsucre part of the house where the fire is and passed out.



The fireys can be a lot more aggressive about getting into
the house if they dont get a response when they knock.

Well I hope they don;t wait for a someone to open the door in these cases, I don;t think I'd want the 'fireys' to wait 10mins for someone to come to the door.



Face recignition would be fun though as you could have
particular greeting or if unrecogniswd just say "**** off".

Or have the system be selective about who it tells me about
like when I am having a snooze and dont want to be told
about the joveys, but do about the cops etc if they show up.

well the iphone X could do that accroding to the tech specs
I glanced over it says it has body & face detection.

IMO it would be better done with the surveillance cameras
and that could go much further and recognise when a courier
van has showed up too, even using the branding on the van etc.

Have yuo seen te4h price of these cams

Yep.

they are about twice that of a iphone X

Plenty have them anyway.

Plenty that can afford to have such a system.


and that excluded the servers.

They dont all need servers. And its a small
part of the total cost of the house anyway.

Thyey do need a central place to store images and delete them if not needed, handy to have them automatically upload to the cloud too.



And could notify my mobile with the courier or posty so I could
tell them over the phone where to leave the item if I want to do that.

I;d find it more convinet to have a system like a post box outside that
could be locked or unlocked from my smartphone anywhere in the world.

Trouble is some stuff is too big to go in one of those.

Obviously but the postie obviouly has to leave it somewhere.

The last lot of grog I bought online was much too big
to put in what is sensible to have locked box wise.

So where did it go ?


The postman can then leave the parcel
their no need for me to come to the door

Doesnt work for stuff you have to sign for.

An app coul,d get around that quite easily the postie could film himself putting the item in the requested place.


Once you have the surveillance cameras and alarm
system, easy enough to have it do the other fancy
stuff too and wouldnt cost any more hardware wise.

Leaves stupid dinosaur primitive bells and door knockers for dead.

But it could cost thousands.

Many have that anyway with their surveillance equipment.
Might as well use that to replace dinosaur bells and knockers
and get a vastly better overall result.

at a much higher cost but if iot was really that easy the security forces and police would be using survalance cameras with face recignition but it;s expensive on a large scale.

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 21:11:43 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 15:31:44 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 13:47:09 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 03:47:41 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 11:20:42 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 02:52:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 08:12:29 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
In message , Bob Eager
writes
I am
torn between a voice intoning "the bell has been activated,
please
wait"
and the start of 'Time' from Dark Side of the Moon.

Much more fun to have excerpts from random tracks :

Dave Edmonds, I hear you knocking Anita Ward, Ring my bell
Little
Richard, Keep a knocking A loop of 'Go Away' from Go Away Little
Girl

I'd have "Hey dude visitors" from southparks first episode anal
probe.
You can buy kits that allow you to record your own messages.

I can do that anyway. It's just an MP3 on the server. Pick up an
internal phone, dial 898 and record the message. Run a shell script
to
convert formats and rename it.

I wouldn't need to run a server to do that, I'd use a chip to store
the
audio data.

Of course. So would I if that's all it did.

That's all I'd really want my doorbellk to do.

But it's integrated with the
PBX, and the bell push actually rings all the phones in the house .

I'd hate that, not know or being sure if someone was phoning me or
someone
at the front door.

Trivial to have a different ring tone for the two different types of
thing.

but ringtones can only be activated from a phonecall,

Nope, any decent system can produce it from any input.

can do but don't generally speaking.
A ringtone can only tell you the device that is being used and NOT the person using in.
This will be in later versions of facial recignition apps which I donlt believe have been released yet.


so your doorbell would have to activate
a phone call to your mobile number

Nope, Plenty of the better system allow a contact closure
to trigger it too. In spades with alarm systems.

something has to trigger it, could be a broken light beam or pressure mat, but neither of them will tell you who or what triggered it.


and that number would be fixed

Nope, most obviously when the door button is actually
done with what is a phone with no keyboard and screen
etc. Trivially buyable for peanuts now. It has its own number.
And no fixed monthly cost either.

you can't identify whose at the door from a simple bell push.
I;ve yet to see bell pushes commercail avaible that also have finger print recognition.



unless yuo could use your contact app could in some way
recongnise the person at the door then ID that person with
the person ringing the doorbell.

All it has to do is is work out someone pressed the bell button.

That has been achivable for 100s of years.


Or even have a movement sensor at the front door.

Or a vibration sensor on the door so
that it detects when someone knocks.

but can't detect who or what.


My mobile phone announces who is calling too,

Only because it knows who is calling you from their phone.

No reason why the system can't be designed to say 'front door' when
someone presses the bell there or the PIR detects movement there.

but it won't tell you who it is, could be a cat or dog triggering the PIR.



If I call someone from another phone the reciving
phone doesnlt know it's me it thinks I'm someone else.

Depends on how you call.

No it doesn't.

The better systems send an image
of the person making the call from the selfy camera when
making the call so you can see who is calling whatever
phone they use to call with.

No such system currenly otherwise n=more would use it and you'd know about it.


very handy when you are doing something and prefer to
decide whether to answer immediately or call them back later.

Providing your sure it the same person who owes or usese that phone.

Not if it send a photo of who is using the phone.

No phone does this yet not even smartphones.


When I get a phone call from a friend I've no idea whether
ehe's ringing or she's ringing until I hear a voice.

Because you are too stupid to use the best calling apps.

They aren't phone apps.
You do know the differnce between emaila attachments and skype.



(and a garden bell). Guarantees we
will hear it. Also logs the date and time.

That would be useful but if I were going that far I'd go
back to a webcam on the door so recording everything.

I'd use the surveillance cameras instead.

I would do to if it weren't for the high price.

Peanuts compared with what the house is worth.

But it's unlikely to protect the house, which is why few do it.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 20:58:27 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message


You'd need the fire brigade turn up in a uniform to tell yuo that
yuo have a fire in your home ?

Nope, but if it happens that an obscure part of the place
is on fire and I havent noticed, that could be handy.

I guess it would but how would the fire brigade know ?

Someone else reported it to them.

So someone else notices a fire in an obsure part of your
house, but doesn't tell you and rings the fire brigade.

Makes sense to get the fire brigade there as soon as possible
and they may not be able to get you to come to the door
because you dont hear them knocking on the front door etc.

Well yes you couldm have been in the obsucre part of the house where the
fire is and passed out.



The fireys can be a lot more aggressive about getting into
the house if they dont get a response when they knock.

Well I hope they don;t wait for a someone to open the door in these cases,
I don;t think I'd want the 'fireys' to wait 10mins for someone to come to
the door.



Face recignition would be fun though as you could have
particular greeting or if unrecogniswd just say "**** off".

Or have the system be selective about who it tells me about
like when I am having a snooze and dont want to be told
about the joveys, but do about the cops etc if they show up.

well the iphone X could do that accroding to the tech specs
I glanced over it says it has body & face detection.

IMO it would be better done with the surveillance cameras
and that could go much further and recognise when a courier
van has showed up too, even using the branding on the van etc.

Have yuo seen te4h price of these cams

Yep.

they are about twice that of a iphone X

Plenty have them anyway.

Plenty that can afford to have such a system.


and that excluded the servers.

They dont all need servers. And its a small
part of the total cost of the house anyway.

Thyey do need a central place to store images and delete them if not
needed, handy to have them automatically upload to the cloud too.



And could notify my mobile with the courier or posty so I could
tell them over the phone where to leave the item if I want to do that.

I;d find it more convinet to have a system like a post box outside that
could be locked or unlocked from my smartphone anywhere in the world.

Trouble is some stuff is too big to go in one of those.

Obviously but the postie obviouly has to leave it somewhere.

The last lot of grog I bought online was much too big
to put in what is sensible to have locked box wise.

So where did it go ?

I answered the door when they knocked, and helped
them to move it from the van into my house.

Tad radical, I realise.

The postman can then leave the parcel
their no need for me to come to the door

Doesnt work for stuff you have to sign for.

An app coul,d get around that quite easily the postie
could film himself putting the item in the requested place.

Useless when it needs your signature.

Once you have the surveillance cameras and alarm
system, easy enough to have it do the other fancy
stuff too and wouldnt cost any more hardware wise.

Leaves stupid dinosaur primitive bells and door knockers for dead.

But it could cost thousands.

Many have that anyway with their surveillance equipment.
Might as well use that to replace dinosaur bells and knockers
and get a vastly better overall result.

at a much higher cost

Not if you have the surveillance system already.

but if iot was really that easy the security forces and police
would be using survalance cameras with face recignition

They do.

but it;s expensive on a large scale.

We aint talking about a large scale, we are discussing
what those with even half a clue choose to have at their
place instead of farting around with door bells etc.

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 21:34:49 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 06:49:49 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

C cells seem a bit OTT

Why does it?

Because C cells were for larger short curent usage, those and D cells were standard in the days you had to drive a mechanical a solendiod that hit two bells alterantively.

Bing bong!

https://www.friedland.co.uk/EN-GB/CH...ages/D107.aspx

That doesn't indicate recharchable cells are required.

Correct.

Cs & Ds were used for long life with interminatend discharge.

Correct.

It just seems a bit of a waste to use C recharables that's all.

You sound like a Brexiteer ... jumping to conclusions without any idea
of the facts (it seems). ;-(

I have the facts and those are that rechargable battereis arenl;t really an effcicinet power source for door bells it overkill it's like building a nuclear generator in yuor home to recharge the batteries. Can be done of course but not very logical.



you could use rechargble AAAs

I don't need to, I can use the rechargeable C cells?

OK for me they'd have seemed a bit pricey for the use they are put to.

Pricier than multiple alkaline cells?

YES. about 10X partly because you need 2 sets one in use the other being charged.



We have over a dozen DMMs we stopped using partly because they used 6 X C cells.
C cells are about 4x the price of AA/AAA.

And one set of alkaline can be more expensive than the same in Ni-Mh.

I've never seen that price structure of course if you order your alkaline AAs gift wrapped from harrods you may well be paying more than most do for their rechargable Cs but most won't be doing that.



you could also use a solar panel to recharge the batteries.

I could, but it's much easier just recharging them as required than
buying, fitting and wiring a solar panel.

So you need 4 in the bell unit

Correct.

and 4 on charge

'On charge'? No, charged when taken out and re-charged just before
they replace the old ones.

soi two sets as I said.


that's about £30+ worth of batteries just seems a lot to me.

Yes, it would be at your prices.

Well where do you get 8 recharble C cells from .

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 21:59:44 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:31:17 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

But it's integrated with the PBX, and the bell push actually rings
all the phones in the house .

I'd hate that, not know or being sure if someone was phoning me or
someone at the front door.

Trivial to have a different ring tone for the two different types of
thing.

but ringtones can only be activated from a phonecall, so your doorbell
would have to activate a phone call to your mobile number and that
number would be fixed unless yuo could use your contact app could in
some way recongnise the person at the door then ID that person with the
person ringing the doorbell.

Who said anything about a mobile? I'm talking about within the house. And
I've written software so that the doorbell activates a process in the PBX
that initiates the phone call. (the doorbell is connected via an Arduino).


How many homes have their own PBX system ?
an Arduino is a bit of an overkill for a doorbell.






(and a
garden bell). Guarantees we will hear it. Also logs the date and
time.

That would be useful but if I were going that far I'd go back to a
webcam on the door so recording everything.

I'd use the surveillance cameras instead.

I would do to if it weren't for the high price.

The logs are really useful for a quick check. I usually want to know if
my son has missed a caller while I was out. I have a command that shows
the last ten uses of the doorbell, which beats scanning the video
recording.

How can it show you who used the doorbell ?

On Thursday, 14 September 2017 00:36:18 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 14:49:53 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:

I don't need to, I can use the rechargeable C cells?

OK for me they'd have seemed a bit pricey for the use they are put to.
We have over a dozen DMMs we stopped using partly because they used 6 X C cells.
C cells are about 4x the price of AA/AAA.

So put AA rechrgeables in them. I saw the convertors in Poundland a while ago, or they're cheap online, as are low cost NiMH AAs.

Yep that was my main point about using rechargable C cells.
If you really were a DIYer you wouldn;t need to buy converters either.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 21:11:43 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 15:31:44 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 13:47:09 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 03:47:41 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 11:20:42 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 02:52:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 08:12:29 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
In message , Bob Eager
writes
I am
torn between a voice intoning "the bell has been activated,
please
wait"
and the start of 'Time' from Dark Side of the Moon.

Much more fun to have excerpts from random tracks :

Dave Edmonds, I hear you knocking Anita Ward, Ring my bell
Little
Richard, Keep a knocking A loop of 'Go Away' from Go Away
Little
Girl

I'd have "Hey dude visitors" from southparks first episode
anal
probe.
You can buy kits that allow you to record your own messages.

I can do that anyway. It's just an MP3 on the server. Pick up an
internal phone, dial 898 and record the message. Run a shell
script
to
convert formats and rename it.

I wouldn't need to run a server to do that, I'd use a chip to
store
the
audio data.

Of course. So would I if that's all it did.

That's all I'd really want my doorbellk to do.

But it's integrated with the
PBX, and the bell push actually rings all the phones in the house .

I'd hate that, not know or being sure if someone was phoning me or
someone
at the front door.

Trivial to have a different ring tone for the two different types of
thing.

but ringtones can only be activated from a phonecall,

Nope, any decent system can produce it from any input.

can do but don't generally speaking.

Those are steaming turds, not decent systems.

A ringtone can only tell you the device that
is being used and NOT the person using in.

Wrong, as always. Any decent system can have a different ring tone
for anyone you chose to have that for, or announce their name.

This will be in later versions of facial recignition apps

Duh.

which I donlt believe have been released yet.

You're wrong, as always.

so your doorbell would have to activate
a phone call to your mobile number

Nope, Plenty of the better systems allow a contact closure
to trigger it too. In spades with alarm systems.

something has to trigger it, could be a broken light beam or pressure mat,

What I said.

but neither of them will tell you who or what triggered it.

Wrong when it has a camera too.

and that number would be fixed

Nope, most obviously when the door button is actually
done with what is a phone with no keyboard and screen
etc. Trivially buyable for peanuts now. It has its own number.
And no fixed monthly cost either.

reams of your mindless silly **** flushed where it belongs

I;ve yet to see bell pushes commercail avaible
that also have finger print recognition.

Plenty of access systems have that.

unless yuo could use your contact app could in some way
recongnise the person at the door then ID that person with
the person ringing the doorbell.

All it has to do is is work out someone pressed the bell button.

Or even have a movement sensor at the front door.

Or a vibration sensor on the door so
that it detects when someone knocks.

but can't detect who or what.

The camera can.

My mobile phone announces who is calling too,

Only because it knows who is calling you from their phone.

No reason why the system can't be designed to say 'front door' when
someone presses the bell there or the PIR detects movement there.

but it won't tell you who it is,

It will when it has a facial recognition system too.

could be a cat or dog triggering the PIR.

Not with a properly designed PIR.

If I call someone from another phone the reciving
phone doesnlt know it's me it thinks I'm someone else.

Depends on how you call.

No it doesn't.

Corse it does.

The better systems send an image
of the person making the call from the selfy camera when
making the call so you can see who is calling whatever
phone they use to call with.

No such system currenly

Wrong, as always.

otherwise n=more would use it

Hordes already do.

and you'd know about it.

Fools like you who have their heads completely up their arses never do.

Vast numbers of doorbell systems do that already.

very handy when you are doing something and prefer to
decide whether to answer immediately or call them back later.

Providing your sure it the same person who owes or usese that phone.

Not if it send a photo of who is using the phone.

No phone does this yet not even smartphones.

Even more pig ignorant than you usually manage, and thats saying something.

When I get a phone call from a friend I've no idea whether
ehe's ringing or she's ringing until I hear a voice.

Because you are too stupid to use the best calling apps.

They aren't phone apps.

Wrong, as always.

(and a garden bell). Guarantees we
will hear it. Also logs the date and time.

That would be useful but if I were going that far I'd go
back to a webcam on the door so recording everything.

I'd use the surveillance cameras instead.

I would do to if it weren't for the high price.

Peanuts compared with what the house is worth.

But it's unlikely to protect the house,

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

On Friday, 15 September 2017 11:57:06 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message

Trouble is some stuff is too big to go in one of those.

Obviously but the postie obviouly has to leave it somewhere.

The last lot of grog I bought online was much too big
to put in what is sensible to have locked box wise.

So where did it go ?

I answered the door when they knocked, and helped
them to move it from the van into my house.

Tad radical, I realise.

So you were there, so there wasn' a problem then.


The postman can then leave the parcel
their no need for me to come to the door

Doesnt work for stuff you have to sign for.

An app coul,d get around that quite easily the postie
could film himself putting the item in the requested place.

Useless when it needs your signature.

Why does it NEED yuor signature, what's so specaial about you.
I go over to our postroom nealry everyday to colelct post for me signed by someone else, it's standard practice.

Would yuo expect asy Thereas May to come out of 10 downing street to sign for a parcel for herself ?



Once you have the surveillance cameras and alarm
system, easy enough to have it do the other fancy
stuff too and wouldnt cost any more hardware wise.

Leaves stupid dinosaur primitive bells and door knockers for dead.

But it could cost thousands.

Many have that anyway with their surveillance equipment.
Might as well use that to replace dinosaur bells and knockers
and get a vastly better overall result.

at a much higher cost

Not if you have the surveillance system already.

which most haven't.



but if iot was really that easy the security forces and police
would be using survalance cameras with face recignition

They do.

So how come they keep asking the public to ID someone , like the putney bridge 'pusher' if it worked they wouldn't have made the mistake of questioning the wrong person.


but it;s expensive on a large scale.

We aint talking about a large scale, we are discussing
what those with even half a clue choose to have at their
place instead of farting around with door bells etc.

abd they haven;t choosen survaliance system instead of a door bell.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 21:59:44 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:31:17 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

But it's integrated with the PBX, and the bell push actually
rings all the phones in the house .

I'd hate that, not know or being sure if someone was phoning me or
someone at the front door.

Trivial to have a different ring tone for the two different types of
thing.

but ringtones can only be activated from a phonecall, so your
doorbell would have to activate a phone call to your mobile number
and that number would be fixed unless yuo could use your contact app
could in some way recongnise the person at the door then ID that
person with the person ringing the doorbell.

Who said anything about a mobile? I'm talking about within the house.
And I've written software so that the doorbell activates a process in
the PBX that initiates the phone call. (the doorbell is connected via
an Arduino).


How many homes have their own PBX system ?


I do, had one for about 25 years

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 04:20:29 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 21:34:49 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 06:49:49 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

C cells seem a bit OTT

Why does it?

Because C cells were for larger short curent usage, those and D cells were standard in the days you had to drive a mechanical a solendiod that hit two bells alterantively.

Bing bong!

https://www.friedland.co.uk/EN-GB/CH...ages/D107.aspx

That doesn't indicate recharchable cells are required.

Correct.

Cs & Ds were used for long life with interminatend discharge.

Correct.

It just seems a bit of a waste to use C recharables that's all.

You sound like a Brexiteer ... jumping to conclusions without any idea
of the facts (it seems). ;-(

I have the facts

Nope, you still don't ...

and those are that rechargable battereis arenl;t really an effcicinet power source for door bells

They seem to be here?

it overkill

IYHO I'm guessing?

it's like building a nuclear generator in yuor home to recharge the batteries.

And what if you can? What if you have one laying around?

Can be done of course

Yup.

but not very logical.

When you don't know that facts, anything can appear illogical. But
again, like most Brexieerts you don't actually ask the right questions
or listen to the answers.



you could use rechargble AAAs

I don't need to, I can use the rechargeable C cells?

OK for me they'd have seemed a bit pricey for the use they are put to.

Pricier than multiple alkaline cells?

YES. about 10X partly because you need 2 sets one in use the other being charged.

At your prices though?



We have over a dozen DMMs we stopped using partly because they used 6 X C cells.
C cells are about 4x the price of AA/AAA.

And one set of alkaline can be more expensive than the same in Ni-Mh.

I've never seen that price structure of course

Of course you haven't ... like I said, you simply don't have all the
facts.

if you order your alkaline AAs gift wrapped from harrods you may well be paying more than most do for their rechargable Cs but most won't be doing that.

Nor will I (I have plenty of rechargeables).



you could also use a solar panel to recharge the batteries.

I could, but it's much easier just recharging them as required than
buying, fitting and wiring a solar panel.

So you need 4 in the bell unit

Correct.

and 4 on charge

'On charge'? No, charged when taken out and re-charged just before
they replace the old ones.

soi two sets as I said.

Quite, but they aren't 'on charge' so not costing anything in between.


that's about £30+ worth of batteries just seems a lot to me.

Yes, it would be at your prices.

Well where do you get 8 recharble C cells from .

Ah, *now* you are interested in some facts? ....

As it happens, I bought most of them from Lidl when they were reduced
so paid no more than £2.49 for them, and that might have been a pair!
(4000mAh Eneloop type).

Even if I hadn't bought those, I have plenty of all sizes of
rechargeables so could have used any that I already had, rather than
going out and replacing alkaline at a few quid a shot (for any worth
having).

But hey, let's not let facts cloud your assumptions and personal
opinion eh!

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 15 September 2017 11:57:06 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message

Trouble is some stuff is too big to go in one of those.

Obviously but the postie obviouly has to leave it somewhere.

The last lot of grog I bought online was much too big to put in what
is sensible to have locked box wise.

So where did it go ?

I answered the door when they knocked, and helped them to move it from
the van into my house.

Tad radical, I realise.

So you were there, so there wasn' a problem then.


The postman can then leave the parcel their no need for me to come
to the door

Doesn‘t work for stuff you have to sign for.

An app coul,d get around that quite easily the postie could film
himself putting the item in the requested place.

Useless when it needs your signature.

Why does it NEED yuor signature, what's so specaial about you. I go over
to our postroom nealry everyday to colelct post for me signed by someone
else, it's standard practice.

Would yuo expect asy Thereas May to come out of 10 downing street to sign
for a parcel for herself ?

It needs a signature from someone in the building/premises. It's no good
the delivery person dropping the item on the doorstep and signing him/her
self.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Friday, 15 September 2017 12:42:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 04:20:29 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 21:34:49 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 06:49:49 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

C cells seem a bit OTT

Why does it?

Because C cells were for larger short curent usage, those and D cells were standard in the days you had to drive a mechanical a solendiod that hit two bells alterantively.

Bing bong!

https://www.friedland.co.uk/EN-GB/CH...ages/D107.aspx

That doesn't indicate recharchable cells are required.

Correct.

Cs & Ds were used for long life with interminatend discharge.

Correct.

It just seems a bit of a waste to use C recharables that's all.

You sound like a Brexiteer ... jumping to conclusions without any idea
of the facts (it seems). ;-(

I have the facts

Nope, you still don't ...

are you a wodney simulator.


and those are that rechargable battereis arenl;t really an effcicinet power source for door bells

They seem to be here?

it overkill

IYHO I'm guessing?

No it's to do with having an idea, looking around seeing what's being successfully sold. I don;lt see many doorbell systemns with buildt in generators either and I can work out why.



If it weren't just my opinion then I'd expect to see those doorbell systens to be sold with recharable batties as standard but they don;t or certainly don't use C cells.


it's like building a nuclear generator in yuor home to recharge the batteries.

And what if you can? What if you have one laying around?

I don't
I'd use my cold fusion reactor which is maintained for free by the galatic federation of renewable energy sources, why would I want anything else ?



Can be done of course

Yup.

but not very logical.

When you don't know that facts,

which I do.

anything can appear illogical.

Yes it might appear illogical but it might also be illogical like buying a horse to use on a treadmill to power your phone, why don't people do that ?


But
again, like most Brexieerts you don't actually ask the right questions
or listen to the answers.

Strange considering I voted to leave, now who doesn't know the facts.


you could use rechargble AAAs

I don't need to, I can use the rechargeable C cells?

OK for me they'd have seemed a bit pricey for the use they are put to..

Pricier than multiple alkaline cells?

YES. about 10X partly because you need 2 sets one in use the other being charged.

At your prices though?

Show me alternative prices then.



We have over a dozen DMMs we stopped using partly because they used 6 X C cells.
C cells are about 4x the price of AA/AAA.

And one set of alkaline can be more expensive than the same in Ni-Mh.

I've never seen that price structure of course

Of course you haven't ... like I said, you simply don't have all the
facts.

Then prove it then.



if you order your alkaline AAs gift wrapped from harrods you may well be paying more than most do for their rechargable Cs but most won't be doing that.

Nor will I (I have plenty of rechargeables).

I forgot you **** them out, sorry about that it's just that most humans don't.




and 4 on charge

'On charge'? No, charged when taken out and re-charged just before
they replace the old ones.

so two sets as I said.

Quite, but they aren't 'on charge' so not costing anything in between.

So how do they get charged by magic or prayer.

As I said there was a students project her that used solar panels for doing that at least if you were chgarging your C cells from solar panles it might make a bit of sense.



that's about £30+ worth of batteries just seems a lot to me.

Yes, it would be at your prices.

Well where do you get 8 recharble C cells from .

Ah, *now* you are interested in some facts? ....

As it happens, I bought most of them from Lidl when they were reduced
so paid no more than £2.49 for them, and that might have been a pair!
(4000mAh Eneloop type).

£2.49 a pair. Still a lot more than AAs would be for a pair.

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 3:46:09 PM UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 12/09/2017 14:55, charles wrote:
In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:23 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 11/09/2017 23:45, wrote:
[quoted text muted]
We found their number reduced greatly after small but clear "No Cold
Caller" signs above letterbox and bell-push

10% of our callers use the bell push. The rest just knock.

And then leave a card saying " we couldn't deliver your parcel" or words to
that effect.


The favourite around my way is for the Royal Mail person to put a card
through saying that the package is too large for the letter box. On
visiting the depot to pick it up I find that my 'package' consists of a
number of small jiffy bags held together with an elastic band. Each of
the jiffy bags would easily fit my letter box but the the delivery
person is too lazy and/or thick to remove the elastic band hence the
combined package is too large. It must take the delivery person longer
to write out the card than to actually remove the band.

I had to collect yet another of these combined packages yesterday.

I do wonder if it is a deliberate policy to ensure enough people use the
depot in order to keep it open. The actually sorting of letters is no
longer performed at the depot - that functionality has been centralised
40 miles away.


There is another explanation. Sometimes, to save time, they simply push in the card without bothering to see if you are in or not. I've had this happen when I was, by chance, standing just inside the door so I was able to open it and ask for the parcel. He didn't have it with him.

On Friday, 15 September 2017 12:46:27 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 15 September 2017 11:57:06 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message

Trouble is some stuff is too big to go in one of those.

Obviously but the postie obviouly has to leave it somewhere.

The last lot of grog I bought online was much too big to put in what
is sensible to have locked box wise.

So where did it go ?

I answered the door when they knocked, and helped them to move it from
the van into my house.

Tad radical, I realise.

So you were there, so there wasn' a problem then.


The postman can then leave the parcel their no need for me to come
to the door

Doesn€˜t work for stuff you have to sign for.

An app coul,d get around that quite easily the postie could film
himself putting the item in the requested place.

Useless when it needs your signature.

Why does it NEED yuor signature, what's so specaial about you. I go over
to our postroom nealry everyday to colelct post for me signed by someone
else, it's standard practice.

Would yuo expect asy Thereas May to come out of 10 downing street to sign
for a parcel for herself ?

It needs a signature from someone in the building/premises.

So not my signature.

It's no good
the delivery person dropping the item on the doorstep and signing him/her
self.

exactly.

If yuo can use a video of yuor postie not even coming in the gate to prove he didnlt leave the item why not have a system where he can prove he did leave it somewhere safe like a video of where he did leave it, not to difficult is it.

I;ve been handed things for next door that I have signed for.
But I can sign micky mouse then when my neighbour comes back and finds a card through their door, I can say I was at work no one gave any parcel to me..

This has actually happened a work.
A laptop was delivered to reception according to the post book but no ones seen the laptop. The signature can't be read and the name doesn't exist as being a member of staff.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 06:14:26 -0700, RobertL wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 3:46:09 PM UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 12/09/2017 14:55, charles wrote:
In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:23 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 11/09/2017 23:45, wrote:
[quoted text muted]
We found their number reduced greatly after small but clear "No
Cold Caller" signs above letterbox and bell-push

10% of our callers use the bell push. The rest just knock.

And then leave a card saying " we couldn't deliver your parcel" or
words to that effect.


The favourite around my way is for the Royal Mail person to put a card
through saying that the package is too large for the letter box. On
visiting the depot to pick it up I find that my 'package' consists of a
number of small jiffy bags held together with an elastic band. Each of
the jiffy bags would easily fit my letter box but the the delivery
person is too lazy and/or thick to remove the elastic band hence the
combined package is too large. It must take the delivery person longer
to write out the card than to actually remove the band.

I had to collect yet another of these combined packages yesterday.

I do wonder if it is a deliberate policy to ensure enough people use
the depot in order to keep it open. The actually sorting of letters is
no longer performed at the depot - that functionality has been
centralised 40 miles away.


There is another explanation. Sometimes, to save time, they simply push
in the card without bothering to see if you are in or not. I've had
this happen when I was, by chance, standing just inside the door so I
was able to open it and ask for the parcel. He didn't have it with him.

We had that and I noticed his van from the window. Too late to stop him.

The parcel was for SWMBO - who immediately rang his office. They called
him and he swore blind he'd knocked and rung twice and waited at least a
couple of minutes.

SWMBO mentioned that this wasn't the case and it was all on CCTV. They
sent him back half an hour later. He wasn't happy.



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