One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/

(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html

I was too embarrassed to ask how much he had paid, but bear in mind we
have no mains gas and his current fuel supply is oil, the existing
boiler, which hasn't been touched, is many tears old.

Does anyone have any first hand experiences of these "magic boxes".
--
Chris B (News)

In article ,
Chris B wrote:
I was too embarrassed to ask how much he had paid, but bear in mind we
have no mains gas and his current fuel supply is oil, the existing
boiler, which hasn't been touched, is many tears old.

Does anyone have any first hand experiences of these "magic boxes".

A heat pump normally relies on a heat exchanger kept at a (reasonably)
constant temperature. Normally pipes buried underground.

One on the side of a house would be hot on a hot day and cold on a cold
one.

--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 23/06/2017 17:10, Chris B wrote:
One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/


(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html


I was too embarrassed to ask how much he had paid, but bear in mind we
have no mains gas and his current fuel supply is oil, the existing
boiler, which hasn't been touched, is many tears old.

Does anyone have any first hand experiences of these "magic boxes".

I don't think its a magic box like the one in the telegraph article.

It appears to be an air sourced heat pump with the panel made flat to
catch a bit of solar heat.

You can get a whole house air sourced heat pump for a few thousand so it
looks expensive if its the price the telegraph quoted.

A heat pump will use electricity but it will also transfer some heat
from the outside to the house so for every kwhr of electricity you get
about 3 kwhr of heat. It makes electric heating cost about the same as gas.

I have an air sourced heat pump to heat my conservatory.
Really its an air conditioner that works both ways and it only cost £480
but it won't do hot water. It will chuck out about 5kW of heat which
mkes it quick to heat in winter.

Chris B Wrote in message:
One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/

(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html

The one Jeff Howell mentions was dissolved in June 2016.

The magic snatch company have been going since 2012....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Chris B Wrote in message:
One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/

(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html

The one Jeff Howell mentions was dissolved in June 2016.

The magic snatch company have been going since 2012....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Chris B Wrote in message:
One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/

(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html

The one Jeff Howell mentions was dissolved in June 2016.

The magic snatch company have been going since 2012....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Chris B Wrote in message:
One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/

(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html

The one Jeff Howell mentions was dissolved in June 2016.

The magic snatch company have been going since 2012....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Chris B Wrote in message:
One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/

(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html

The one Jeff Howell mentions was dissolved in June 2016.

The magic snatch company have been going since 2012....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

jim k Wrote in message:
Chris B Wrote in message:
One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/

(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html

The one Jeff Howell mentions was dissolved in June 2016.

The magic snatch company have been going since 2012....


Grrr
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:07:17 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

A heat pump normally relies on a heat exchanger kept at a (reasonably)
constant temperature. Normally pipes buried underground.

Air source is an alternative, they don't like air temps between 0 and
about 5C, condensation forms and freezes requiring regular, energy
consuming, defrost cycles. Below freezing the air is dry and IIRC
they'll still be effective down to about -10 C.

One on the side of a house would be hot on a hot day and cold on a cold
one.

It'll be cold as the heat is being pumped out of it, it's not a
passive heat exchange system a solar thermal setup.

--
Cheers
Dave.

jim wrote:
Chris B Wrote in message:
One of my drinking buddies has mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he
had his heating and hot water system upgraded by the addition of a heat
pump. He seemed to have difficulty explaining how it worked so today I
went to have a look at it out of curiosity. On the side of one of the
components was www.magicthermodynamicbox.com so I was immediately a bit
suspicious.

It is essentially a huge fridge evaporator panel on the outside of the
house which serves a heat exchanger for the hot water, and what looks
like a dumb box adjacent to the boiler, which has feed/return to the
boiler and the radiators. They have also put thermostatic valves on all
of the radiators.

I suspect that he has been right royally shafted but there are some good
reviews on the net

https://magicheatingboxreviews.wordp...g-box-reviews/

(only joking there are twice as many saying stay well clear of this sort
of stuff, the best one being)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ew-boiler.html

The one Jeff Howell mentions was dissolved in June 2016.

The magic snatch company have been going since 2012....

Fix it Jim.

Half the problem with these technologies is that they get used
inappropriately in conditions where any gain would be outweighed by the lack
of efficiency created by the additional pumps etc.

I know somebody in Chichester who was persuaded to have what basically was
just what one might call a smart smoother outer of temperatures in the house
by use of thermostatic valves and a simple additional boiler controller.
Snake oil again?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris B wrote:
I was too embarrassed to ask how much he had paid, but bear in mind we
have no mains gas and his current fuel supply is oil, the existing
boiler, which hasn't been touched, is many tears old.

Does anyone have any first hand experiences of these "magic boxes".

A heat pump normally relies on a heat exchanger kept at a (reasonably)
constant temperature. Normally pipes buried underground.

One on the side of a house would be hot on a hot day and cold on a cold
one.

--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 23/06/2017 18:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris B wrote:
I was too embarrassed to ask how much he had paid, but bear in mind we
have no mains gas and his current fuel supply is oil, the existing
boiler, which hasn't been touched, is many tears old.

Does anyone have any first hand experiences of these "magic boxes".

A heat pump normally relies on a heat exchanger kept at a (reasonably)
constant temperature. Normally pipes buried underground.

In other more continental countries you do get air based heat pumps for
air conditioning that can run to keep the house interior cool in summer
and warm in winter - fine if the atmosphere is dry and not too cold.

The problem in the UK is humidity means that the external heat exchanger
tends to ice up quickly and become useless. In a sunnier dry continental
climate they work a bit better. We had one like that in Japan.

One on the side of a house would be hot on a hot day and cold on a cold
one.

You can still steal some heat but in the UK ground sourced would be the
way to go (although the only folk I know with one found it uneconomic).
This is odd because they are retired and in the house most of the time.
(basically I think they were sold a dud by a slimy salesman)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 24/06/2017 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/06/2017 18:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris B wrote:
I was too embarrassed to ask how much he had paid, but bear in mind we
have no mains gas and his current fuel supply is oil, the existing
boiler, which hasn't been touched, is many tears old.

Does anyone have any first hand experiences of these "magic boxes".

A heat pump normally relies on a heat exchanger kept at a (reasonably)
constant temperature. Normally pipes buried underground.

In other more continental countries you do get air based heat pumps for
air conditioning that can run to keep the house interior cool in summer
and warm in winter - fine if the atmosphere is dry and not too cold.

I think mine has defrosted twice in three years.
It takes a couple of minutes and you get some vapour coming off the
compressor and a load of water down the drain. Its nothing like the ones
on youtube where they are defrosting inches of ice.


The problem in the UK is humidity means that the external heat exchanger
tends to ice up quickly and become useless. In a sunnier dry continental
climate they work a bit better. We had one like that in Japan.

Its actually an advantage as you take the latent heat out of the air and
the water drips off before it freezes. IME it seldom results in any ice
forming.


One on the side of a house would be hot on a hot day and cold on a cold
one.

You can still steal some heat but in the UK ground sourced would be the
way to go (although the only folk I know with one found it uneconomic).
This is odd because they are retired and in the house most of the time.
(basically I think they were sold a dud by a slimy salesman)


There is a limit to how much heat you can extract before the ground
freezes, You just can't keep taking a lot of heat out and if they are
old and run the heating more than expected they may not have enough
ground area to provide the required amount of heat. This causes the COP
to fall and then it costs more to run. There is no such limit on air
sourced heat pumps.

replying to Chris B, Julian wrote:
Company has been dissolved following illegal claims of efficiency box has
worked okay for 5 years BUT savings minimal and nor the unit not working and
no one to fix it apparently so all in all an expensive con


--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...x-1218997-.htm