Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

"Al-W" wrote in message
...

Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It
is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted
to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence
post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in
stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly
adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the
strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

Depends how high it is !

3" tall no issue

3 Metre tall might be a problem!

Sheltered location - probably no issue

Cliff top in outer Hebrides - problems ensue !

All parameters needed

Andrew

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

Al-W wrote:
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds.
It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be
bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized
fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point
in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly
adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the
strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

'All timber'? Is it panelled, if so I'm not sure if 3" posts will be
enopugh, even 4" might be marginal.

--
Chris Green
·

On 05/06/17 18:35, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Use 4" concrete posts set in cement, with concrete gravel boards

Then the things won't rot

Many thanks

Al-W



--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

Al-W wrote:
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds.
It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be
bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by
galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is
there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3"
versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence
post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

Al-W


3" definitely not enough! 4" minimum unless you enjoy replacing broken
posts. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT), Al-W wrote:

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

Concrete posts, set in concrete (postfix/postcrete) and then clad in rough sawn
wood if someone objects to the bare concrete look.
--

Al-W wrote

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds.
It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be
bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by
galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is:
Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will
the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine
a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds

They do tho. Lots of force on them depending on the
detail of how much wind can get thru the fence itself.

- but I could be wrong.

Probably fine with such a short fence with it bolted to buildings at each
end.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

In my fence it was the arris rails that broke due to wind loading first,
then the wood near the base where it rotted.
Depends very much on the type of fence panels and how strong the actual
structure is.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Al-W" wrote in message
...
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is
only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to
buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence
post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in
stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly
adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the
strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

Its not the posts that I find are the first casualties its the panels
themselves. Also whether metal concreted or wood directly concreted, after
a time the post shrinks and swells and water gets down into the bottom of
the post hole in the concrete, it cannot get away, rusts the sockets and
rots the wood and the break occurs at ground level usually. make damned sure
the wood is well protected al the way down and if possible impregnated as
cheapo posts tent to break.
Can you run to concrete posts?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim+" wrote in message
news
Al-W wrote:
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds.
It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be
bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by
galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is
there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3"
versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence
post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all
timber.

Al-W


3" definitely not enough! 4" minimum unless you enjoy replacing broken
posts. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Brian Gaff wrote

Its not the posts that I find are the first casualties its the panels
themselves.

Depends on how the fence is done.

Also whether metal concreted or wood directly concreted, after time the
post shrinks and swells and water gets down into the bottom of the post
hole in the concrete, it cannot get away, rusts the sockets and rots the
wood and the break occurs at ground level usually.

He's talking about posts in metal and is asking about the size of the posts.

make damned sure the wood is well protected al the way down and if
possible impregnated as cheapo posts tent to break.
Can you run to concrete posts?

"Tim+" wrote in message
news
Al-W wrote:
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds.
It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be
bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by
galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is
there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3"
versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence
post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all
timber.

Al-W


3" definitely not enough! 4" minimum unless you enjoy replacing broken
posts. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT), Al-W
wrote:

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

Al-W
I have a 6ft high close boarded fence with 6" square posts bolted to
concrete studs down one side of the garden. A couple of months back
the strong winds actually snapped one fence post AND it's concrete
stud at ground level.
It was a pig of a job to dig it all out!

On 6/6/2017 8:44 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
In my fence it was the arris rails that broke due to wind loading first,
then the wood near the base where it rotted.
Depends very much on the type of fence panels and how strong the actual
structure is.

Brian


And just what you mean by "strong winds"; which very much depends on
where you live, and how exposed the area is. Between two buildings
should give some protection, unless it leads to a tunnel concentration.

ISTR there is geographical data in BS6399.

Googling "wind loading" gives lots of hits.

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 7:33:05 PM UTC+1, Chris Green wrote:
Al-W wrote:
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds..
It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be
bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized
fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point
in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly
adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the
strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

'All timber'? Is it panelled, if so I'm not sure if 3" posts will be
enopugh, even 4" might be marginal.

--
Chris Green

Chris, thanks for the input. I plan to use 6" x 1" vertical boards, nailed alternately, each side of the fence, in order to allow some wind through, and thus reduce wind resistance.·

Al

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 7:39:10 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/06/17 18:35, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Use 4" concrete posts set in cement, with concrete gravel boards

Then the things won't rot

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I need the fence to be temporarily removable without too much aggro. Hence my use of metal post holders. Otherwise, I would probably have used concrete posts.

Al

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 8:23:31 PM UTC+1, The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT), Al-W wrote:

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

Concrete posts, set in concrete (postfix/postcrete) and then clad in rough sawn
wood if someone objects to the bare concrete look.

That sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately, I need the posts to be removable easily.

Al

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 10:04:49 AM UTC+1, Davidm wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT), Al-W wrote:

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

Al-W
I have a 6ft high close boarded fence with 6" square posts bolted to
concrete studs down one side of the garden. A couple of months back
the strong winds actually snapped one fence post AND it's concrete
stud at ground level.
It was a pig of a job to dig it all out!

Wow - that's relevant information; thanks! I think I will have to choose my 4" wooden posts carefully then. Also, I plan on making for less wind-resistance by staggering the vertical boards alternately on each side of the horizontal pieces - allowing some wind to pass through.

Al

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 10:35:45 AM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 6/6/2017 8:44 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:

And just what you mean by "strong winds"; which very much depends on
where you live, and how exposed the area is. Between two buildings
should give some protection, unless it leads to a tunnel concentration.

Yes, there are buildings and a high wall on three sides but not to the south or southeast. Gales are not uncommon here in winter on the south coast, but of course a hurricane (though not yet experienced) is not impossible. Thanks for the suggestions.

Al

On 06/06/2017 12:20, Al-W wrote:
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 8:23:31 PM UTC+1, The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT), Al-W wrote:

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

Concrete posts, set in concrete (postfix/postcrete) and then clad in rough sawn
wood if someone objects to the bare concrete look.

That sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately, I need the posts to be removable easily.


ITYM "removable easily except by the wind"

Do you need to be able to remove the posts down to ground level or would
you be able to get away with concrete spurs to which you bolt the posts?
(They can be sunk lower than usual at the risk of earlier rot of the
posts.)

http://www.supremeconcrete.co.uk/general/repair-spur/


IMLE "concrete in" metal posts holders are a bit weedy for 2m panels but
there may be stronger ones out there.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/concrete-i...m-2-pack/70197



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 06/06/2017 12:15, Al-W wrote:


Chris, thanks for the input. I plan to use 6" x 1" vertical boards, nailed alternately, each side of the fence, in order to allow some wind through, and thus reduce wind resistance.·


I'd be interested if anyone knows of evidence of how much (or little)
that reduces wind resistance. I've seen "up to 15%" quoted but (a) "up
to" makes me wonder if that is in ideal wind speed and direction and (b)
it surprised me given the wind load even for chain link fencing can be
25 to 50% of the wind load of a solid fence.




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 12:50:57 PM UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 06/06/2017 12:20, Al-W wrote:
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 8:23:31 PM UTC+1, The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT), Al-W wrote:

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all timber.

Concrete posts, set in concrete (postfix/postcrete) and then clad in rough sawn
wood if someone objects to the bare concrete look.

That sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately, I need the posts to be removable easily.


ITYM "removable easily except by the wind"

Do you need to be able to remove the posts down to ground level or would
you be able to get away with concrete spurs to which you bolt the posts?
(They can be sunk lower than usual at the risk of earlier rot of the
posts.)

http://www.supremeconcrete.co.uk/general/repair-spur/


IMLE "concrete in" metal posts holders are a bit weedy for 2m panels but
there may be stronger ones out there.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/concrete-i...m-2-pack/70197



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Thanks very much for that suggestion. Unfortunately, I need the posts to be removeable to possibly allow a vehicle through, which has to drive though at a 45 degree angle, so unless those spurs were about 10ft apart, those concrete spurs are not really an option, unfortunately. Yes, I am a little concerned that the metal post holders will be the weak point in the fence, but I don't know of any other option that'll allow a vehicle to drive through when the posts are removed. Unless anyone herehas another suggestion.

Al

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 1:45:12 PM UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 06/06/2017 12:15, Al-W wrote:


Chris, thanks for the input. I plan to use 6" x 1" vertical boards, nailed alternately, each side of the fence, in order to allow some wind through, and thus reduce wind resistance.·


I'd be interested if anyone knows of evidence of how much (or little)
that reduces wind resistance. I've seen "up to 15%" quoted but (a) "up
to" makes me wonder if that is in ideal wind speed and direction and (b)
it surprised me given the wind load even for chain link fencing can be
25 to 50% of the wind load of a solid fence.




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Hmmm... That's a little worrying.

Al

"Al-W" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 12:50:57 PM UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 06/06/2017 12:20, Al-W wrote:
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 8:23:31 PM UTC+1, The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT), Al-W wrote:

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:35:59 PM UTC+1, Al-W wrote:
Hi, oh learned ones!

I need to construct a fence that will be subject to some strong
winds. It is only 5.7 meters long and will have 5 posts, two of
which will be bolted to buildings. The three intermediate posts will
be held by galvanized fence post holders (concreted in). My big
question is: Is there any point in stretching to 4" posts and
hardware, or will the 3" versions be perfectly adequate? I find it
hard to imagine a 3" fence post snapping in even the strongest
winds - but I could be wrong.

Any insights or advice on this matter?

Many thanks

Al-W

PS.. I forgot to mention that the fence will be 2 meters tall and all
timber.

Concrete posts, set in concrete (postfix/postcrete) and then clad in
rough sawn
wood if someone objects to the bare concrete look.

That sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately, I need the posts to be
removable easily.


ITYM "removable easily except by the wind"

Do you need to be able to remove the posts down to ground level or would
you be able to get away with concrete spurs to which you bolt the posts?
(They can be sunk lower than usual at the risk of earlier rot of the
posts.)

http://www.supremeconcrete.co.uk/general/repair-spur/


IMLE "concrete in" metal posts holders are a bit weedy for 2m panels but
there may be stronger ones out there.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/concrete-i...m-2-pack/70197



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Thanks very much for that suggestion. Unfortunately, I need the posts to
be removeable to possibly allow a vehicle through, which has to drive
though at a 45 degree angle, so unless those spurs were about 10ft apart,
those concrete spurs are not really an option, unfortunately. Yes, I am a
little concerned that the metal post holders will be the weak point in the
fence, but I don't know of any other option that'll allow a vehicle to
drive through when the posts are removed. Unless anyone herehas another
suggestion.

My neighbour has a metal fence with metal verticals, that opens like
a big metal covered gate when he wants to get a car into the yard.

Works fine.

On 07/06/2017 18:25, Al-W wrote:


Thanks very much for that suggestion. Unfortunately, I need the posts to be removeable to possibly allow a vehicle through, which has to drive though at a 45 degree angle, so unless those spurs were about 10ft apart, those concrete spurs are not really an option, unfortunately. Yes, I am a little concerned that the metal post holders will be the weak point in the fence, but I don't know of any other option that'll allow a vehicle to drive through when the posts are removed. Unless anyone herehas another suggestion.

Al


Maybe a really dumb suggestion but have you thought of a standard
farmyard style 5 bar farm gate? One very robust post to hang it from
and a smaller one at the securing end. You could still clad it with
vertical boards if you want to make it less see through.


--
Chris B (News)