"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

And for the other 86399 seconds in the day?

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...

If conventional power generation is so inefficient it can't reduce its
output when other methods come on stream, something should be done.

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

Or a winter's day with a nice high sitting over the country. Short solar
day, no wind.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 11:14:08 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter.
Brian

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

En el artículo , Andy Burns
escribió:

And for the other 86399 seconds in the day?



Such cynicism.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

On 31/05/2017 11:26, Bob Eager wrote:
Or a winter's day with a nice high sitting over the country. Short solar
day, no wind.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 11:14:08 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter.
Brian


Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the sun
will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during your
summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

On 31/05/17 12:02, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 31/05/2017 11:26, Bob Eager wrote:
Or a winter's day with a nice high sitting over the country. Short solar
day, no wind.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 11:14:08 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter.
Brian


Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the sun
will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during your
summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

And all the little tellytubbies will play in the sun and no one will
blow up the bit that runs through their country or switch it off and
demand payment


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

In message
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/05/17 12:02, Andy Bennet wrote:

[snip]

Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the sun
will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during your
summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

And all the little tellytubbies will play in the sun and no one will
blow up the bit that runs through their country or switch it off and
demand payment

You forgot unicorns. There must always be unicorns.
And perpetual motion.

--
Jim White
Wimbledon London England
I will not instigate revolution

On 31/05/17 13:17, Jim White wrote:
In message
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/05/17 12:02, Andy Bennet wrote:

[snip]

Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the sun
will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during your
summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

And all the little tellytubbies will play in the sun and no one will
blow up the bit that runs through their country or switch it off and
demand payment

You forgot unicorns. There must always be unicorns.
And perpetual motion.


I should have added pixeie dust as well

Without that up yer nose you can't see the unicorns



--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
On 31/05/2017 11:26, Bob Eager wrote:
Or a winter's day with a nice high sitting over the country. Short solar
day, no wind.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 11:14:08 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter.
Brian


Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the sun
will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during your
summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so why
think a world wide agreement possible?

--
*Horn broken. - Watch for finger.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 15:35:36 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
On 31/05/2017 11:26, Bob Eager wrote:
Or a winter's day with a nice high sitting over the country. Short solar
day, no wind.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 11:14:08 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter.
Brian


Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the sun
will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during your
summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so why
think a world wide agreement possible?

Well our language is closer to American than it is French or German.
Maybe you should ask why we have been at war with our closest neighbours more than with our fathest neighbours.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 15:28:05 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Money talks...

But it won't happen until we have "sensible temperature" super
conductors.

That'll be a game changer, no losses, so you could move as much
energy as you can shove in all over the globe on a mesh made of
things the size of todays single fibre optic strand.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 15:35:36 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
On 31/05/2017 11:26, Bob Eager wrote:
Or a winter's day with a nice high sitting over the country. Short
solar day, no wind.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 11:14:08 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter. Brian


Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the
sun will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet
during your summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Well our language is closer to American than it is French or German.

I sometimes wonder about that.

Maybe you should ask why we have been at war with our closest
neighbours more than with our fathest neighbours.

Because moving troops and supplies etc has only (relatively) recently
become easy?

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 15:28:05 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Money talks...

But it won't happen until we have "sensible temperature" super
conductors.

That'll be a game changer, no losses, so you could move as much
energy as you can shove in all over the globe on a mesh made of
things the size of todays single fibre optic strand.

And we'll still get charged for it in much the same way as now, given
where the sun shines the most. ;-)

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 09:46:19 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, ...

How do they know I thought most Solar PV was embeded and not metered?

... beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

Heysham 1 Reactors 1 an 2 are not running flat out, 484 and 511 MW
respectively. Torness Reactor 1 is off line for statutary inspection
and consuming 23 MW. The total generation scrapped from the EDF
website just now is 8.248 GW.

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...

Quite. Bugger all wind according to gridwatch, 0.61 GW. Gas 15.67 GW,
Gridwatch has solar at 6 GW peak today, dropped a GW now.

Or are we talking about last Friday?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 5/31/2017 9:46 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...

Don't let Trump read that suggestion

On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 15:57:51 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 15:28:05 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Money talks...

But it won't happen until we have "sensible temperature" super
conductors.

That'll be a game changer, no losses,

won;t be that much of a gane changer as they only estimate that the losses due to reistance is about 20%.

where it would be an advantage is in computers that won't need to be cooled.


so you could move as much
energy as you can shove in all over the globe on a mesh made of
things the size of todays single fibre optic strand.

This would also depend on what the substance is we eventually find it could be rare like gold or other rarer elements that'll just cost to much to manufacture and put into use.


Did you see the program on super elements last week. ?

On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 16:10:07 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 15:35:36 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
On 31/05/2017 11:26, Bob Eager wrote:
Or a winter's day with a nice high sitting over the country. Short
solar day, no wind.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 11:14:08 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter. Brian


Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the
sun will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet
during your summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Well our language is closer to American than it is French or German.

I sometimes wonder about that.

I prefer american spelling to German.


Maybe you should ask why we have been at war with our closest
neighbours more than with our fathest neighbours.

Because moving troops and supplies etc has only (relatively) recently
become easy?

yes well we have the EU, didn't have that in Roman times.

I wonder how far way the war on terror is.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 16:17:08 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 5/31/2017 9:46 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...

Don't let Trump read that suggestion

He will believe he just has to drop his pants.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 31/05/2017 09:46, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...


To be fair I posted this from the BBC on the 26th:-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40058074

The page has altered and now says

"A National Grid spokeswoman said the record level of solar power was
achieved largely because of the clear and sunny weather on Friday."

She added that it would have been significantly harder to reach if it
had been cloudy.




--
Adam

On 31/05/17 16:17, newshound wrote:
On 5/31/2017 9:46 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...

Don't let Trump read that suggestion
All we have to do is get Corbyn to moon in front of a solar array.



--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

En el artículo l.net,
Dave Liquorice escribió:

Or are we talking about last Friday?

Yes. (As the article I linked to says).

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

En el artículo ,
newshound escribió:

Don't let Trump read that suggestion

He could just bend over. He seems to think the sun shines out of his
fundament.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

En el artículo , ARW aXXXwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

To be fair I posted this from the BBC on the 26th:-)

I must have missed that, sorry.

d that it would have been significantly harder to reach if it
had been cloudy.

Reporters these days, eh? Sharp as tacks, they are.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
On 31/05/2017 11:26, Bob Eager wrote:
Or a winter's day with a nice high sitting over the country. Short
solar
day, no wind.

On Wed, 31 May 2017 11:14:08 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd like to see them do this at night in the winter.
Brian


Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the sun
will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during your
summer, autumn,, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours,

Even sillier than you usually manage. Britain would be very happy to
cooperate with the nearest neighbours with a free trade area with the EU.

so why think a world wide agreement possible?

Don’t need one. We already have a number of world
wide agreements, the UN, WTO etc etc etc for starters.

On 02/06/17 19:39, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , ARW
wrote:

On 31/05/2017 09:46, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...


To be fair I posted this from the BBC on the 26th:-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40058074

The page has altered and now says

"A National Grid spokeswoman said the record level of solar power was
achieved largely because of the clear and sunny weather on Friday."

She added that it would have been significantly harder to reach if it
had been cloudy.

I don't know why whether it was cloudy or windy or not should be any or
our concern. If wind(solar) can do x Gw at some given moment, then
we've obviously installed (and paid for) x Gw of capacity.

It should therefore be the responsibility of wind(solar) to be able to
supply x Gw on a 7 x 24 basis. How they do that is not our concern.

If they can't do that then they are in breach of contract.

They would be if normal contracts applied to them.

They don't. They get full exemption as 'renewable' sources.

The whole climate change scam is supported by governments and
universities and all the power companies.

They aren't the losers. We are.



--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the
sun will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during
your summer, autumn, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Well, they don't want to cooperate with us.

More like they refuse to be blackmailed by us.

--
*It's this dirty because I washed it with your wife's knickers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/06/17 22:47, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/06/17 19:39, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , ARW
wrote:

On 31/05/2017 09:46, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"The UK has surpassed its solar power record, generating 8.7 GW on
Friday afternoon from photovoltaic (PV) installations"

"Grid operator National Grid said PV generated 24.3 per cent of demand
at 1 pm, beating the previous record of 8.48 GW and for the first time
providing more power than the nation's eight nuclear plants"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...-breaks-solar-
power-record.html

Now if they could just arrange for the sun to shine at night...

To be fair I posted this from the BBC on the 26th:-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40058074

The page has altered and now says

"A National Grid spokeswoman said the record level of solar power
was achieved largely because of the clear and sunny weather on Friday."

She added that it would have been significantly harder to reach if
it had been cloudy.

I don't know why whether it was cloudy or windy or not should be any or
our concern. If wind(solar) can do x Gw at some given moment, then
we've obviously installed (and paid for) x Gw of capacity.

It should therefore be the responsibility of wind(solar) to be able to
supply x Gw on a 7 x 24 basis. How they do that is not our concern.

If they can't do that then they are in breach of contract.

They would be if normal contracts applied to them.

They don't. They get full exemption as 'renewable' sources.

So is this the Govt unable to write contracts *again*? Just like with
PFI? Did the renewable shills come round with a contract with the ink
still wet, which said something like "we agree to supply some variable
amount of energy of our choosing to you from time to time, and you
agree to pay us lots of dosh and not enquire too deeply into how much
volts we are supplying" ?? And you mean gasp that the Govt *signed*
*it* without further ado? Well I'll be hornswoggled.

So which Govt was this and who were the guilty men that ****ed our
money away in this fashion?

Mostly the European Union with Browns Milliband licking their tailpipes.

"The Utilities Act 2000 gives the Secretary of State the power to
require electricity suppliers to supply a certain proportion of their
total sales in the United Kingdom from electricity generated from
renewable sources. A Renewables Obligation Order is issued annually
detailing the precise level of the obligation for the coming year-long
period of obligation and the level of the buy-out price. The Renewables
Obligation (England and Wales) was introduced by the Department of Trade
and Industry, the Renewables Obligation (Scotland) was introduced by the
Scottish Executives and the Northern Ireland Renewables Obligation was
introduced by the Department of Enterprise Trade and Investment
(DETINI). The Orders were subject to review in 2005/06 and new Orders
came into effect on 1 April 2006. "


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 03/06/17 08:38, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the
sun will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during
your summer, autumn, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Well, they don't want to cooperate with us.

More like they refuse to be blackmailed by us.

Blackmail? Oh, do we have something on them that would allow us to
blackmail them? What would that be then?

We know where all the EU MEPS offshore accounts are hosted?


--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 03/06/17 09:52, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/06/17 08:38, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where
the
sun will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet
during
your summer, autumn, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Well, they don't want to cooperate with us.

More like they refuse to be blackmailed by us.

Blackmail? Oh, do we have something on them that would allow us to
blackmail them? What would that be then?

We know where all the EU MEPS offshore accounts are hosted?

I think Dave imagines that for us to stand up for our own interests is
somehow "blackmail" or is "racist" (to use childish socialist [1]
jargon).


[1] Hmm, there's a redundancy right there.

If you don't behave, Corbyn will cut your benefits off.


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 19:39:52 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:
snip

I don't know why whether it was cloudy or windy or not should be any or
our concern. If wind(solar) can do x Gw at some given moment, then
we've obviously installed (and paid for) x Gw of capacity.

It should therefore be the responsibility of wind(solar) to be able to
supply x Gw on a 7 x 24 basis. How they do that is not our concern.

If they can't do that then they are in breach of contract.

+1

I think fining them for any deficiency in supply and giving that money
back to all those energy consumers not receiving FIT payments could be
one (real world) solution.

Cheers, T i m

On 03/06/17 10:13, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 19:39:52 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:
snip

I don't know why whether it was cloudy or windy or not should be any or
our concern. If wind(solar) can do x Gw at some given moment, then
we've obviously installed (and paid for) x Gw of capacity.

It should therefore be the responsibility of wind(solar) to be able to
supply x Gw on a 7 x 24 basis. How they do that is not our concern.

If they can't do that then they are in breach of contract.

+1

I think fining them for any deficiency in supply and giving that money
back to all those energy consumers not receiving FIT payments could be
one (real world) solution.

Cheers, T i m

Don't be silly, They get paid not to deliver!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...witch-off.html

renewable energy gets susbsidies to operate in terms of ROCS that must
be bought by power companies or they get fined.

That means everyone want to buy renewables to not get fined.

If there is too much renewable energy, they get paid to switch it off.

If there is not enough, the power companies have to buy th shortfall at
whatever price they can. Often over a £1 a unit if the wind lets em down.

Its a win win situation for renewable operators who only really lose if
the wind is low and stays low. Or its cloudy all summer.



--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 03/06/17 10:08, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/06/17 09:52, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/06/17 08:38, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid
where the
sun will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet
during
your summer, autumn, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest
neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Well, they don't want to cooperate with us.

More like they refuse to be blackmailed by us.

Blackmail? Oh, do we have something on them that would allow us to
blackmail them? What would that be then?

We know where all the EU MEPS offshore accounts are hosted?

I think Dave imagines that for us to stand up for our own interests is
somehow "blackmail" or is "racist" (to use childish socialist [1]
jargon).

[1] Hmm, there's a redundancy right there.

If you don't behave, Corbyn will cut your benefits off.

I meant in that "childish socialist" is redundant. All socialists are
childish - they believe in the magic money tree and unicorns.

I know what you meant

I was just extending the concept.


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Baby steps. Eventually we will have a world wide d.c. grid where the
sun will shine and the wind will blow somewhere on the planet during
your summer, autumn, spring, winter and night.

Unlikely. We don't want to co-operate with our nearest neighbours, so
why think a world wide agreement possible?

Well, they don't want to cooperate with us.

More like they refuse to be blackmailed by us.

Blackmail? Oh, do we have something on them that would allow us to
blackmail them? What would that be then?

You don't need 'something on them' to attempt blackmail. Merely the belief
that they will give in to demands, no matter how ridiculous.

--
*The best cure for sea sickness, is to sit under a tree.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 10:32:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/06/17 10:13, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 19:39:52 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:
snip

I don't know why whether it was cloudy or windy or not should be any or
our concern. If wind(solar) can do x Gw at some given moment, then
we've obviously installed (and paid for) x Gw of capacity.

It should therefore be the responsibility of wind(solar) to be able to
supply x Gw on a 7 x 24 basis. How they do that is not our concern.

If they can't do that then they are in breach of contract.

+1

I think fining them for any deficiency in supply and giving that money
back to all those energy consumers not receiving FIT payments could be
one (real world) solution.

Cheers, T i m

Don't be silly, They get paid not to deliver!

Well quite, but I was with Tim (hypothetically) questioning the
morality / legality of that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...witch-off.html

renewable energy gets susbsidies to operate in terms of ROCS that must
be bought by power companies or they get fined.

That means everyone want to buy renewables to not get fined.

If there is too much renewable energy, they get paid to switch it off.

If there is not enough, the power companies have to buy th shortfall at
whatever price they can. Often over a £1 a unit if the wind lets em down.

Its a win win situation for renewable operators who only really lose if
the wind is low and stays low. Or its cloudy all summer.

Yup ... and as discussed, who signed that one off ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
"The Utilities Act 2000 gives the Secretary of State the power to
require electricity suppliers to supply a certain proportion of their
total sales in the United Kingdom from electricity generated from
renewable sources. A Renewables Obligation Order is issued annually
detailing the precise level of the obligation for the coming year-long
period of obligation and the level of the buy-out price. The Renewables
Obligation (England and Wales) was introduced by the Department of
Trade and Industry, the Renewables Obligation (Scotland) was
introduced by the Scottish Executives and the Northern Ireland
Renewables Obligation was introduced by the Department of Enterprise
Trade and Investment (DETINI). The Orders were subject to review in
2005/06 and new Orders came into effect on 1 April 2006. "

Ah, so it was the ****ing Labour Party giving money to big business for
doing not very much, then, eh?

Nice to know you don't believe in research being put into practice to
gather even more data.

Your favourite free market is only interested in things which make an
instant buck. This country even more than most.

--
*People want trepanners like they want a hole in the head*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Blackmail? Oh, do we have something on them that would allow us to
blackmail them? What would that be then?

We know where all the EU MEPS offshore accounts are hosted?

I think Dave imagines that for us to stand up for our own interests is
somehow "blackmail" or is "racist" (to use childish socialist [1]
jargon).

Nice try to put words in my mouth.

And do love the way you talk about 'our' interests. When you actually mean
your own. Which is rather typical of right wingers.

--
*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
I meant in that "childish socialist" is redundant. All socialists are
childish - they believe in the magic money tree and unicorns.

Very good. Where did you copy that from?

Of course the last 7 years or so have proved how well the Tories run our
economy. If you live on a different planet.

--
*Change is inevitable ... except from vending machines *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
You don't need 'something on them' to attempt blackmail. Merely the
belief that they will give in to demands, no matter how ridiculous.

That's not blackmail then, is it. Of course, you like to use the loaded
word "blackmail" in the context of British negotiators sticking up for
Britain in negotiations, so that you can claim that we are being
unreasonable when that is not in fact the case.

Think the bit you missed out is sticking up for what *you* want, not
Britain.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.