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Default How to de-scale a loo that is connected to a Septic tank?

"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message ...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...

Right so just to be clear. Having blocked the S bend
with a balloon or similar in all 5 cases, the amount of brick
acid solution necessary to clean all 5 bowls, which will necessarily
have to be filled to near the brim to dissolve the limescale on
the backs of the bowls, will do no harm if released into
the septic tank.

Even if that is the issue, (rather than just your imagination of
it) anyone with a better imagination could think of far easier
ways than you apparently can.

I never said use hydrochloric acid did you?

You twice referred to acid which would dissolve limescale
if left overnight. The usual recommendation for this is
dilute hydrochloric acid which is usually referred to as brick
acid, if for no other reason than, it's easier to spell.

Your first reference

"Anyhoo given that a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, all this fretting over a couple of
occasional litres of dilute acid"

"Your second reference in response to my statement that in adverts
for household limescale removers "It only dissolves it in the adverts."

I haven't seen adverts for acid - have you seen any?


Once again. (this time from your own attempt at proof) it is clear
*I* never suggested brick acid or hydrochloric acid. Who
did?

So what acid were you actually referring, to which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?

If you remember it was you who insisted that this acid of your
choice actually dissolved the limescale, rather than softened
it, so that no scraping or other manual intervention was
necessary.

That's assuming that you or the other members of your household
do actually need to use this particular lavatory bowl at least
once a day, of course.


michael adams

...


Read the thread.


I have.

Your only references to acid were the two I've already quoted.

So what acid were you actually referring to, which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?


michael adams

...




Read it again you dullard!
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"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message ...

Who suggested the stains were "all the way" to the rim? Oh you did.


That's the usual pattern of staining in a lavatory bowl.
The water flows down the back of the bowl from the rim
depositing tiny amounts of limescale as it does
so which build up over time.


For you perhaps.

Good to know you clean your own ****ter now & again. Or do you
just watch the Polish maid do it?

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Fredxxx Wrote in message:
On 25/05/2017 23:17, michael adams wrote:
"jim" k wrote in message ...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...

Right so just to be clear. Having blocked the S bend
with a balloon or similar in all 5 cases, the amount of brick
acid solution necessary to clean all 5 bowls, which will necessarily
have to be filled to near the brim to dissolve the limescale on
the backs of the bowls, will do no harm if released into
the septic tank.

Even if that is the issue, (rather than just your imagination of
it) anyone with a better imagination could think of far easier
ways than you apparently can.

I never said use hydrochloric acid did you?

You twice referred to acid which would dissolve limescale
if left overnight. The usual recommendation for this is
dilute hydrochloric acid which is usually referred to as brick
acid, if for no other reason than, it's easier to spell.

Your first reference

"Anyhoo given that a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, all this fretting over a couple of
occasional litres of dilute acid"

"Your second reference in response to my statement that in adverts
for household limescale removers "It only dissolves it in the adverts."

I haven't seen adverts for acid - have you seen any?


Once again. (this time from your own attempt at proof) it is clear
*I* never suggested brick acid or hydrochloric acid. Who
did?

So what acid were you actually referring, to which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?

If you remember it was you who insisted that this acid of your
choice actually dissolved the limescale, rather than softened
it, so that no scraping or other manual intervention was
necessary.

That's assuming that you or the other members of your household
do actually need to use this particular lavatory bowl at least
once a day, of course.


michael adams

...

Read the thread.


I have.

Your only references to acid were the two I've already quoted.

So what acid were you actually referring to, which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?


I think he's forgotten?


I think you're being lazy.

--
Jim K


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"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message .. .
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message ...

Who suggested the stains were "all the way" to the rim? Oh you did.

That's the usual pattern of staining in a lavatory bowl.
The water flows down the back of the bowl from the rim
depositing tiny amounts of limescale as it does
so which build up over time.


For you perhaps.


Not just for me.


Not for me :-)


Why did you snip the second paragraph I wonder ?


Questions questions


I thought your solution to this problem, something which
will dissolve limescale overnight with no need for scraping
covered all typical situations. Not only your own where
apparently you only get limescale under the waterline.


Your thoughts are a large part of your confusion.


If only you'd stuck to the septic tank end of this
discussion you might have stood a better chance but
you allowed me to side track you into a discussion
of acids and toilet bowls which are clearly your
weak points.


Are they your strong points?

So much so that you're now feigning amnesia and
a highly untypical pattern of limescale deposits
around your bowl


Where do I "feign amnesia"?

You need to clean your ****ter more often -sack the Polish maid!

Do you live in a hard water area?

I only ask as you already admitted you've never had a septic tank
& know nothing about them yet still *felt* qualified to profer &
defend your own advice to others.... Gotcha!

Now you are claiming you have expertise about limescale deposits
in toilet bowls...what a life you you've led of is it just more
bull****? :-D

I suppose I should also ask if you actually use a toilet :-D

PS Have you read the thread yet and answered your other question
you keep (somewhat desperately) bleating about?

Chin chin

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"michael adams" Wrote in message:

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 25 May 2017 20:47:05 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:

Right so just to be clear. Having blocked the S bend
with a balloon or similar in all 5 cases, the amount of brick
acid solution necessary to clean all 5 bowls, which will necessarily
have to be filled to near the brim to dissolve the limescale on
the backs of the bowls,


That's so dumb it warrants a repost just for the sake of it.



I know that you're still bitter about my showing that you totally
contradicted yourself in the pump action screwdriver thread*,
but you really shouldn't allow that bitterness to affect your judgement.

Had you actually taken the trouble to read the thread before



ooh pots & kettles! Roflmao :-D

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Fredxxx Wrote in message:
On 25/05/2017 23:40, jim wrote:
Fredxxx Wrote in message:
On 25/05/2017 23:17, michael adams wrote:
"jim" k wrote in message ...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...

Right so just to be clear. Having blocked the S bend
with a balloon or similar in all 5 cases, the amount of brick
acid solution necessary to clean all 5 bowls, which will necessarily
have to be filled to near the brim to dissolve the limescale on
the backs of the bowls, will do no harm if released into
the septic tank.

Even if that is the issue, (rather than just your imagination of
it) anyone with a better imagination could think of far easier
ways than you apparently can.

I never said use hydrochloric acid did you?

You twice referred to acid which would dissolve limescale
if left overnight. The usual recommendation for this is
dilute hydrochloric acid which is usually referred to as brick
acid, if for no other reason than, it's easier to spell.

Your first reference

"Anyhoo given that a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, all this fretting over a couple of
occasional litres of dilute acid"

"Your second reference in response to my statement that in adverts
for household limescale removers "It only dissolves it in the adverts."

I haven't seen adverts for acid - have you seen any?


Once again. (this time from your own attempt at proof) it is clear
*I* never suggested brick acid or hydrochloric acid. Who
did?

So what acid were you actually referring, to which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?

If you remember it was you who insisted that this acid of your
choice actually dissolved the limescale, rather than softened
it, so that no scraping or other manual intervention was
necessary.

That's assuming that you or the other members of your household
do actually need to use this particular lavatory bowl at least
once a day, of course.


michael adams

...

Read the thread.

I have.

Your only references to acid were the two I've already quoted.

So what acid were you actually referring to, which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?

I think he's forgotten?


I think you're being lazy.


No, just illustrating the onset of dementia.


Sorry to hear that old boy.

H A V E Y O U R E A D T H E T H R E A D Y E T ?

Hope that assists you :-)
--
Jim K


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On Friday, 26 May 2017 00:25:59 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/05/2017 23:49, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 25 May 2017 23:04:19 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:

Can you still get ammonia?


yep.


eBay and the like certainly, but I haven't seen it supermarkets like you
used to.

Where did you have in mind?


ebay, amazon etc.


NT
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"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...

I only ask as you already admitted you've never had a septic tank
& know nothing about them


Where did I say that ?

There's plenty of information about septic tanks on the net.

All of which contradict your advice.

A contributor to this very thread suggested that
the OP should neutralise the acid by adding sodium
carbonate or bicarbonate before flushing it
away. Something you clearly consider totally
uneccsssary.


yet still *felt* qualified to profer &
defend your own advice to others.... Gotcha!


Whereas your "advice" is based on the following statement

"Anyhoo given that a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, all this fretting over a couple of
occasional litres of dilute acid or bleach seems a trifle ott."

Now I know you're categorically refusing to identify the acid you
were referring to.

But just out of interest can you fill in the missing word
- the one with the ****,s in the following sentence ?

Just because a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, that doesn't necessarily mean that it
actually c******s 2.5k litres or anything like it, at any one time.

So that basically the OPs septic tank could be almost empty,
for all you know. and yet despite this you're advising him to flush
five bog loads of non neutralised dilute acid into it.

It's at this point I suppose that you're also going to claims
you've got no limescale around the inside of your rim, so
that theres nothing there for this acid of yourse to dissolve
overnight, either.


michael adams

....




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On 25/05/17 23:04, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/05/2017 10:12, newshound wrote:
On 5/25/2017 9:59 AM, michael adams wrote:
wrote in message
...



Using a sacrificial soup ladle or similar, (or maybe not sacrfifcial
if funds are
very tight, I suppose) its a fairly simple matter to bail out almost
all of the water
in the bottom of an S bend (and thus the toilet) into a bucket
afterwards if this
is thought necessary.


michael adams


A wet and dry vacuum cleaner is even easier. If using brick acid,
neutralise with washing soda or ammonia first.


Can you still get ammonia?


Yep. (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Care-A.../dp/B0041WCVXM)
And brick acid
(https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bond-Brick-.../dp/B004SGIA54)
And caustic soda crystals (
https://www.amazon.co.uk/NCS-Caustic...DE84SFEQB908FM
)

In short everything you need for bog and drain cleaning exists

And if you want sodium Chlorate weedkiller, just boil up this lot

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Pools-Hot...K60BCYYP09K5N4

and it will turn into sodium chlorate solution and salt. Do this outside
though.



--
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making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€

Thomas Sowell


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On 25/05/17 22:38, michael adams wrote:
"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...
Right so just to be clear. Having blocked the S bend
with a balloon or similar in all 5 cases, the amount of brick
acid solution necessary to clean all 5 bowls, which will necessarily
have to be filled to near the brim to dissolve the limescale on
the backs of the bowls, will do no harm if released into
the septic tank.


Even if that is the issue, (rather than just your imagination of
it) anyone with a better imagination could think of far easier
ways than you apparently can.


If you remember, I originally suggested that the application of
chemicals only softened the limescale and it would still be
necessary to remove some of it manually.


You were of course completely wrong.
As usual

You objected to this and said no. It was possible to dissolve it
all.


This is correct, though mechanical disturbance of the broken up surface
speeds the process


Now please explain how you intend to dissolve the limescale on the
back of the bowl all the way down from the rim, such that no
scraping of any kind will be necessary, without filling the
bowl to the rim.

Oh dear. That's precisely what the gel formulations of surfactants and
acids are there to do. They cling to the bowl.

Of course blowing up a balloon inside the U-bend will allow you to fill
up the rim fairly easily...as will putting acid in the cistern: after
all if the scale arrived in the cistern water, so too will its demise..



HOWEVER the original question was about limescale below the surface of
the normal water level.

Just use a plunger to empty the bog, then fill it up with brick acid,
and leave it for an hour or two agitating occasionally to ensure
dispersal of the calcium chloride.


Then flush, hold the ballcock up, and tip the rest of the acid stuff
into the cistern.

That will give a power flush next time you do it.

For normal maintenance simply spraying limescale remover under the rim
every week or so will keep it all in check



michael adams




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"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

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On 25/05/17 22:45, michael adams wrote:
"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...

Right so just to be clear. Having blocked the S bend
with a balloon or similar in all 5 cases, the amount of brick
acid solution necessary to clean all 5 bowls, which will necessarily
have to be filled to near the brim to dissolve the limescale on
the backs of the bowls, will do no harm if released into
the septic tank.

Even if that is the issue, (rather than just your imagination of
it) anyone with a better imagination could think of far easier
ways than you apparently can.

I never said use hydrochloric acid did you?

You twice referred to acid which would dissolve limescale
if left overnight. The usual recommendation for this is
dilute hydrochloric acid which is usually referred to as brick
acid, if for no other reason than, it's easier to spell.

Your first reference

"Anyhoo given that a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, all this fretting over a couple of
occasional litres of dilute acid"

"Your second reference in response to my statement that in adverts
for household limescale removers "It only dissolves it in the adverts."

I haven't seen adverts for acid - have you seen any?


Once again. (this time from your own attempt at proof) it is clear
*I* never suggested brick acid or hydrochloric acid. Who
did?


So what acid were you actually referring, to which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?


well any of sulphuric (battery acid) hydrochloric (brick acid)
phosphoric (coca cola) acetic (vinegar) formic (often used in de
scalers) sulphamic, muriatic etc will do.

In fact I cant think of an acid that wont. LSD perhaps wont.
It will just make the lime scale more interesting.




If you remember it was you who insisted that this acid of your
choice actually dissolved the limescale, rather than softened
it, so that no scraping or other manual intervention was
necessary.

This is of course correct as anyone who has tipped brick acid on
limestone will tell you.

2HCl + CaCO3- H2O + CaCl2 + CO2.

CaCl2, calcium chloride, is soluble in water and the reaction produces
water.

So that diffuses away.

The problem is rate of diffusion: at the acid-limescale interface the
acid concentration falls especially with low acid concentrations where
the fizz factor doesn't stir things up too good




That's assuming that you or the other members of your household
do actually need to use this particular lavatory bowl at least
once a day, of course.

Ah, the mandatory ad hominem.



michael adams

...





--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.
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On 25/05/17 23:09, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/05/2017 23:00, jim wrote:
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...

Right so just to be clear. Having blocked the S bend
with a balloon or similar in all 5 cases, the amount of brick
acid solution necessary to clean all 5 bowls, which will necessarily
have to be filled to near the brim to dissolve the limescale on
the backs of the bowls, will do no harm if released into
the septic tank.

Even if that is the issue, (rather than just your imagination of
it) anyone with a better imagination could think of far easier
ways than you apparently can.

I never said use hydrochloric acid did you?

You twice referred to acid which would dissolve limescale
if left overnight. The usual recommendation for this is
dilute hydrochloric acid which is usually referred to as brick
acid, if for no other reason than, it's easier to spell.

Your first reference

"Anyhoo given that a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, all this fretting over a couple of
occasional litres of dilute acid"

"Your second reference in response to my statement that in adverts
for household limescale removers "It only dissolves it in the
adverts."

I haven't seen adverts for acid - have you seen any?


Once again. (this time from your own attempt at proof) it is clear
*I* never suggested brick acid or hydrochloric acid. Who
did?

So what acid were you actually referring, to which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?

If you remember it was you who insisted that this acid of your
choice actually dissolved the limescale, rather than softened
it, so that no scraping or other manual intervention was
necessary.

That's assuming that you or the other members of your household
do actually need to use this particular lavatory bowl at least
once a day, of course.


michael adams

...


Read the thread.


It would be so much easier if you just named the acid you were suggesting.


Any acid works. Provide that when it changes ions with the carbonate,
the resulting calcium salt is soluble.

Calcium Chloride: Soluble (brick acid)
Calcium sulphate: Not so great, but better than carbonate (batrtery acid)
Calcium acetate: Soluble (vinegar)
Calcium phosphate: Reasonably soluble (coca cola)
Calcium formate: reasonably soluble (formic aciud: used in some descalers)

In general the best acid is hydrochloric - its powerful cheap and
available, but it can when reacting with other household chemicals give
off chlorine, which is why sulphamic acid is more common for the Numpty
market.




--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.
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On 25/05/17 23:14, michael adams wrote:
"jim" k wrote in message ...

Who suggested the stains were "all the way" to the rim? Oh you did.


That's the usual pattern of staining in a lavatory bowl.


No. it isn't.

99% of all staining is where water collects and deposits calcium
carbonate. That is under the usual water level.




The water flows down the back of the bowl from the rim
depositing tiny amounts of limescale as it does
so which build up over time.


Not half as fast as the water collected in the bowl does.

I thought your solution to this problem, something which
will dissolve limescale overnight with no need for scraping
covered all typical situations.

It does. The problem with the bowl cleaning (and under rim cleaning) is
getting the acid to stick. That's where gel preparations do better than Hcl.

Not only your own where
apparently you only get limescale under the waterline.



michael adams

...








--
Jim K


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On 25/05/17 23:48, michael adams wrote:
"Fredxxx" wrote in message news
On 25/05/2017 23:17, michael adams wrote:
"jim" k wrote in message ...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...

Right so just to be clear. Having blocked the S bend
with a balloon or similar in all 5 cases, the amount of brick
acid solution necessary to clean all 5 bowls, which will necessarily
have to be filled to near the brim to dissolve the limescale on
the backs of the bowls, will do no harm if released into
the septic tank.

Even if that is the issue, (rather than just your imagination of
it) anyone with a better imagination could think of far easier
ways than you apparently can.

I never said use hydrochloric acid did you?

You twice referred to acid which would dissolve limescale
if left overnight. The usual recommendation for this is
dilute hydrochloric acid which is usually referred to as brick
acid, if for no other reason than, it's easier to spell.

Your first reference

"Anyhoo given that a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, all this fretting over a couple of
occasional litres of dilute acid"

"Your second reference in response to my statement that in adverts
for household limescale removers "It only dissolves it in the adverts."

I haven't seen adverts for acid - have you seen any?


Once again. (this time from your own attempt at proof) it is clear
*I* never suggested brick acid or hydrochloric acid. Who
did?

So what acid were you actually referring, to which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?

If you remember it was you who insisted that this acid of your
choice actually dissolved the limescale, rather than softened
it, so that no scraping or other manual intervention was
necessary.

That's assuming that you or the other members of your household
do actually need to use this particular lavatory bowl at least
once a day, of course.


michael adams

...

Read the thread.

I have.

Your only references to acid were the two I've already quoted.

So what acid were you actually referring to, which is capable
of dissolving limescale overnight ?


I think he's forgotten?


He should have stuck with the septic tanks and not allowed
himself to get sidetracked into a discussion of toilet
bowls and acid which are clearly his weaker points.


michael adams

You should have stuck with the septic tanks and not allowed
yourself to get sidetracked into a discussion of toilet
bowls and acid which are clearly your weaker points.


--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.


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On 26/05/17 11:26, michael adams wrote:
Just because a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, that doesn't necessarily mean that it
actually c******s 2.5k litres or anything like it, at any one time.


my god, your supreme ignorance is on display once more

If, by septic tank, you simply mean a bloody great tank full of ****
that does no treatment whatsoever, then of course you are right, because
it has no outflow and must be emptied - generally every monthh or two -
by a truck and a pump. Of course since there are no bugs to kill you can
sling what you like in it.

OTOH if you are talking about a private sewage treatment plant with
settlement tanks that use the actual bacteria to digest the **** into
acceptable fertiliser and purify the water that is then discharged on a
continuous basis, then of course they are ALWAYS FULL of water.


I can see now why you didn't stick with the septic tanks and
sidetracked the thread into discussion of toilet bowls and acids. Sadly
you turned out to be just as ignorant on these matters.

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that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

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On 26/05/17 14:03, Fredxxx wrote:
On 26/05/2017 13:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/17 00:25, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/05/2017 23:49, wrote:
On Thursday, 25 May 2017 23:04:19 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:

Can you still get ammonia?

yep.

eBay and the like certainly, but I haven't seen it supermarkets like
you used to.

Where did you have in mind?


I have. Tucked away in IIRC waitrose


A search on their website failed to find any ammonia:

http://www.waitrose.com/shop/HeaderS...ultSearch=G R

yep. It wasn't IIRC sold as ammonia but that's what it was, and I was in
store, not on the web site.

Simethinbg like EzyKleen or some ********
anyway ammonia is getting to be one of the things like caustic soda that
you have to snap up from independent hardware shops or buy on line


--
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eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
Who suggested the stains were "all the way" to the rim? Oh you did.


That's the usual pattern of staining in a lavatory bowl.


No. it isn't.

99% of all staining is where water collects and deposits calcium
carbonate. That is under the usual water level.


Depends on where you aim as well :-) If you are good at peeing close to the
rim, more "water" will flow higher up the bowl. Mind you, that is probably a
small proportion of the water that flows over the bowl, when compared with
the flushing water.

My experience is that you get tidemark staining/encrustation at the normal
level of water in the U trap, plus random staining/encrustation below the
water line. The you get some tear-stain streaking down the side of the bowl
at points where most water flows down the side having emerged from the holes
in the rim.

All of them are very difficult to remove with normal limescale removal
solutions which are weak acids such as formic and oxalic. It usually takes a
lot of repeated applications, especially if the acid is not mixed with a gel
to keep it in contact with vertical surfaces, and usually all it does is to
loosen the scale enough that it can be scrubbed off with a cloth, stiff
brush or pan scrub (not for food use afterwards!) etc.

As a matter of interest, why is HCl called "brick acid"? I've not heard that
term before.



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On 26/05/2017 14:37, NY wrote:

As a matter of interest, why is HCl called "brick acid"? I've not heard
that term before.


Cleaning lime/cement off brick? (just a guess based on the picture on my
bottle).
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On 26/05/17 14:37, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
Who suggested the stains were "all the way" to the rim? Oh you did.

That's the usual pattern of staining in a lavatory bowl.


No. it isn't.

99% of all staining is where water collects and deposits calcium
carbonate. That is under the usual water level.


Depends on where you aim as well :-) If you are good at peeing close to
the rim, more "water" will flow higher up the bowl. Mind you, that is
probably a small proportion of the water that flows over the bowl, when
compared with the flushing water.

My experience is that you get tidemark staining/encrustation at the
normal level of water in the U trap, plus random staining/encrustation
below the water line. The you get some tear-stain streaking down the
side of the bowl at points where most water flows down the side having
emerged from the holes in the rim.

All of them are very difficult to remove with normal limescale removal
solutions which are weak acids such as formic and oxalic. It usually
takes a lot of repeated applications, especially if the acid is not
mixed with a gel to keep it in contact with vertical surfaces, and
usually all it does is to loosen the scale enough that it can be
scrubbed off with a cloth, stiff brush or pan scrub (not for food use
afterwards!) etc.

As a matter of interest, why is HCl called "brick acid"? I've not heard
that term before.


Because its main (DIY) use is in cleaning mortar/efflorescence off bricks

Or grout off paving slabs 'patio acid'


--
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This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
If, by septic tank, you simply mean a bloody great tank full of **** that
does no treatment whatsoever, then of course you are right, because it has
no outflow and must be emptied - generally every monthh or two - by a
truck and a pump. Of course since there are no bugs to kill you can sling
what you like in it.

OTOH if you are talking about a private sewage treatment plant with
settlement tanks that use the actual bacteria to digest the **** into
acceptable fertiliser and purify the water that is then discharged on a
continuous basis, then of course they are ALWAYS FULL of water.


As far as I am aware, the first is called a cesspit and the second is called
a septic tank.


My parents have a septic tank (well, the standard arrangement of two
enormous round-bottomed flasks in the ground, where one drains into the
other) at their holiday cottage. Admittedly it doesn't get as much use as a
family house that is lived in all the time, but as far as I know it has
never been emptied in the 40 years that they have owned the cottage. The
treated outlet flows into the communal rainwater drain that is shared by all
the houses in a terrace and eventually flows into a nearby stream. I presume
all the other houses' septic tanks do the same.

Funny story: when we bought the cottage, it had been badly modernised on the
cheap. It had the septic tank but we also found a huge breeze-block lined
chamber, with no roof on it (just a huge hole in the ground) in the back
garden. There was a T-shaped sewer pipe protruding from the side of one wall
in the chamber. It had never been used. We tried to work out why and I did
some measurements and concluded that the outlet into the tank was a foot or
so *higher* than the downstairs loo. I wonder if the previous owners
actually connected up the pipes and tried to use it, only to discover that
sewage doesn't flow uphill, and then abandoned it and had the septic tank
installed instead.

Why is it that owners of septic tanks are warned not to use plungers (only
rodding) to clear any blockage?

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On 26/05/17 14:47, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
If, by septic tank, you simply mean a bloody great tank full of ****
that does no treatment whatsoever, then of course you are right,
because it has no outflow and must be emptied - generally every monthh
or two - by a truck and a pump. Of course since there are no bugs to
kill you can sling what you like in it.

OTOH if you are talking about a private sewage treatment plant with
settlement tanks that use the actual bacteria to digest the **** into
acceptable fertiliser and purify the water that is then discharged on
a continuous basis, then of course they are ALWAYS FULL of water.


As far as I am aware, the first is called a cesspit and the second is
called a septic tank.


That is my understanding also.


My parents have a septic tank (well, the standard arrangement of two
enormous round-bottomed flasks in the ground, where one drains into the
other) at their holiday cottage. Admittedly it doesn't get as much use
as a family house that is lived in all the time, but as far as I know it
has never been emptied in the 40 years that they have owned the cottage.
The treated outlet flows into the communal rainwater drain that is
shared by all the houses in a terrace and eventually flows into a nearby
stream. I presume all the other houses' septic tanks do the same.

Funny story: when we bought the cottage, it had been badly modernised on
the cheap. It had the septic tank but we also found a huge breeze-block
lined chamber, with no roof on it (just a huge hole in the ground) in
the back garden. There was a T-shaped sewer pipe protruding from the
side of one wall in the chamber. It had never been used. We tried to
work out why and I did some measurements and concluded that the outlet
into the tank was a foot or so *higher* than the downstairs loo. I
wonder if the previous owners actually connected up the pipes and tried
to use it, only to discover that sewage doesn't flow uphill, and then
abandoned it and had the septic tank installed instead.

Why is it that owners of septic tanks are warned not to use plungers
(only rodding) to clear any blockage?


No idea. I rodded all mine cos thats all I had



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On 26/05/17 15:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 26/05/17 11:26, michael adams wrote:
Just because a decent septic tank worth having probably has a
capacity of 2-2.5k litres+, that doesn't necessarily mean that it
actually c******s 2.5k litres or anything like it, at any one time.


my god, your supreme ignorance is on display once more

If, by septic tank, you simply mean a bloody great tank full of ****
that does no treatment whatsoever, then of course you are right,
because it has no outflow and must be emptied - generally every monthh
or two - by a truck and a pump. Of course since there are no bugs to
kill you can sling what you like in it.


Not really a septic tank, more of a cess pit.

OTOH if you are talking about a private sewage treatment plant with
settlement tanks that use the actual bacteria to digest the **** into
acceptable fertiliser and purify the water that is then discharged on
a continuous basis, then of course they are ALWAYS FULL of water.


Right, you've just described a septic tank. Sometimes these apparently
have two chambers, but I'm not sure why.

Mine had THREE.

And it was still crap. The replacement Klargester that ensures aerobic
breakdown is infinitely superior.

The tanks are a crude way of getting better and better settlement of
inorganic sediments and such solids as may form.




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The Natural Philosopher posted

Just use a plunger to empty the bog, then fill it up with brick acid,
and leave it for an hour or two agitating occasionally to ensure
dispersal of the calcium chloride.

Then flush, hold the ballcock up, and tip the rest of the acid stuff
into the cistern.

That will give a power flush next time you do it.


Is there not a risk that the acid will erode the siphon washer and cause
a leak?

--
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On 27/05/17 08:06, Handsome Jack wrote:
The Natural Philosopher posted

Just use a plunger to empty the bog, then fill it up with brick acid,
and leave it for an hour or two agitating occasionally to ensure
dispersal of the calcium chloride.

Then flush, hold the ballcock up, and tip the rest of the acid stuff
into the cistern.

That will give a power flush next time you do it.


Is there not a risk that the acid will erode the siphon washer and cause
a leak?

Yeah, but are you a DIY-er or a snowflakery wuss?


--
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replying to The Natural Philosopher, Guru wrote:
Check out Vulcan, its a German product around for some 40 years in industry.
Its NOT magnetic and works for my whole house.
I installed it and its brilliant, saw huge improvements with limescale in the
toilet pans, shower nozzles and heating as well. Its totally safe to use with
septic tanks - no chemicals or descalers ever

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...k-1211127-.htm


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On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 18:44:05 UTC+1, Guru wrote:
replying to The Natural Philosopher, Guru wrote:


Check out Vulcan, its a German product around for some 40 years in industry.
Its NOT magnetic and works for my whole house.
I installed it and its brilliant, saw huge improvements with limescale in the
toilet pans, shower nozzles and heating as well. Its totally safe to use with
septic tanks - no chemicals or descalers ever


It's the old wire round pipe scam. Despite being magnetic it claims to not be magnetic.


NT
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