[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

"Demand response software start-up Limejump has won the contract to
manage the energy storage facility dubbed 'Britain's biggest battery' by
project developer UK Power Networks"

"Located in Leighton Buzzard, the 6 MW Network Storage Facility has been
developed to help support the growing amount of intermittent renewable
power sources on the grid"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...xt-generation-
utility-wins-contract-for-uk-s-biggest-battery.html

or http://tinyurl.com/m45plc6

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

Mike Tomlinson wrote:

"Demand response software start-up Limejump has won the contract to
manage the energy storage facility dubbed 'Britain's biggest battery' by
project developer UK Power Networks"

Note 'manage' not 'build'. It's already been operating for years:
http://innovation.ukpowernetworks.co...Storage-(SNS)/

Theo

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to generate power
then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it any less efficient
than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be converted to AC in any
case?

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 May 2017 10:24:48 +0100, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:


"Demand response software start-up Limejump has won the contract to
manage the energy storage facility dubbed 'Britain's biggest battery' by
project developer UK Power Networks"

"Located in Leighton Buzzard, the 6 MW Network Storage Facility has been
developed to help support the growing amount of intermittent renewable
power sources on the grid"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...xt-generation-
utility-wins-contract-for-uk-s-biggest-battery.html

or http://tinyurl.com/m45plc6

One can't help wondering how many of these battery banks are needed to
actually make a significant contribution to the grid. 6MW, 10MWh, so
6MW for ~90 minutes supply before it's flat, as they point out.
Assuming an average UK daily consumption of 35GW, i.e 840,000MWh, we'd
need 84,000 of these battery banks to keep us going for a day, if we
were relying entirely on wind and sunshine and TWDB&TSDS etc. I doubt
it's realistic to think that wind and sun would ever be the only
sources of supply, but it does suggest we'd need a helluvalot of
batteries to be really useful.

--

Chris

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

Tim Streater explained on 24/05/2017 :
Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to generate
power then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it any less
efficient than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be converted to AC
in any case?

Flood them with what?

Water?

I would not think the water capacity of a disused mine would be enough
to make it worth while.

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 14:01:27 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Tim Streater explained on 24/05/2017 :
Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to generate
power then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it any less
efficient than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be converted to AC
in any case?

Flood them with what?

Water?

I would not think the water capacity of a disused mine would be enough
to make it worth while.

ditto the world's biggest battery.


NT

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggestbattery"
 

On 24/05/17 14:01, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Tim Streater explained on 24/05/2017 :
Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to
generate power then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it
any less efficient than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be
converted to AC in any case?

Flood them with what?

Water?

I would not think the water capacity of a disused mine would be enough
to make it worth while.

Of course it isn't., But you are supposed to applaud the IDEA and the
INTENTION. this isn't engineering, its virtue signalling politics FFS!

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to generate
power then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it any less
efficient than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be converted
to AC in any case?

Flood them with what?

Cheap imported coal?

--
*When companies ship Styrofoam, what do they pack it in? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

In message
Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to generate power
then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it any less efficient
than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be converted to AC in any
case?

Flood them with what?

Lefties, Liberals and Terrorists.
The decomposition gasses would fuel several cities.

--
Jim White
Wimbledon London England
My homework was not stolen by a one armed man

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

I am not starting a 'theres a hole in my bucket thread here!
Water dear Lisa.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to generate
power then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it any less
efficient than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be converted to
AC in any case?

Flood them with what?

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the
right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone
else's pocket.

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

Tim Streater brought next idea :
Which you get from where? And when it comes to pumping it out, where
does the water go?

It would be pumped out to a lagoon, then allowed to flow back via the
generators.

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Tim Streater brought next idea :
Which you get from where? And when it comes to pumping it out, where
does the water go?

It would be pumped out to a lagoon, then allowed to flow back via the
generators.
A lagoon eh? And just how big would this lagoon be and where do you
suggest it is located?
--
bert

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

In article , Chris Hogg
writes
On Wed, 24 May 2017 10:24:48 +0100, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:


"Demand response software start-up Limejump has won the contract to
manage the energy storage facility dubbed 'Britain's biggest battery' by
project developer UK Power Networks"

"Located in Leighton Buzzard, the 6 MW Network Storage Facility has been
developed to help support the growing amount of intermittent renewable
power sources on the grid"

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/a...xt-generation-
utility-wins-contract-for-uk-s-biggest-battery.html

or http://tinyurl.com/m45plc6

One can't help wondering how many of these battery banks are needed to
actually make a significant contribution to the grid. 6MW, 10MWh, so
6MW for ~90 minutes supply before it's flat, as they point out.
Assuming an average UK daily consumption of 35GW, i.e 840,000MWh, we'd
need 84,000 of these battery banks to keep us going for a day, if we
were relying entirely on wind and sunshine and TWDB&TSDS etc. I doubt
it's realistic to think that wind and sun would ever be the only
sources of supply, but it does suggest we'd need a helluvalot of
batteries to be really useful.

Until there is a quantum leap forward in battery technology, which may
actually be theoretically impossible, then this is a complete waste of
time. Stop scratching the surface and build nukes before it is too late.
--
bert

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Tim Streater brought next idea :
Which you get from where? And when it comes to pumping it out, where
does the water go?

It would be pumped out to a lagoon, then allowed to flow back via the
generators.
A lagoon eh? And just how big would this lagoon be and where do you
suggest it is located?

and waht do you fill it with? Yes, water - but from where?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

bert was thinking very hard :
A lagoon eh? And just how big would this lagoon be and where do you suggest
it is located?

--

I was just explaining how it would have to work, I had already said it
wasn't workable due to insufficient capacity to make it a worthwhile
venture.

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggestbattery"
 

On 5/24/2017 2:32 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/05/17 14:01, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Tim Streater explained on 24/05/2017 :
Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to
generate power then pump them out when there is little demand. Is
it any less efficient than a bleedin big battery which needs to then
be converted to AC in any case?

Flood them with what?

Water?

I would not think the water capacity of a disused mine would be enough
to make it worth while.

Of course it isn't., But you are supposed to applaud the IDEA and the
INTENTION. this isn't engineering, its virtue signalling politics FFS!


Well put, sir!

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

On Wed, 24 May 2017 20:39:04 +0100, bert wrote:

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Tim Streater brought next idea :
Which you get from where? And when it comes to pumping it out, where
does the water go?

It would be pumped out to a lagoon, then allowed to flow back via the
generators.

A lagoon eh? And just how big would this lagoon be and where do you
suggest it is located?

We already have one and it's pretty big, it's called 'the sea'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Water?

I would not think the water capacity of a disused mine would be enough
to make it worth while.

The argument goes that, since PE=mgh, you can get away with less m by having
a bigger h. If the mine is 2km down, you can use 10x less water than pumped
storage where you might only get 200m.

Unfortunately, the problem is that mines contain corrosive things and all
those nice support structures that are keeping the mine open may not stay up
for long with all this corrosive water sloshing about.

THeo

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

On Wed, 24 May 2017 13:57:19 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to generate power
then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it any less efficient
than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be converted to AC in any
case?

Flood them with what?

Something liquid at room temperature and quite dense would be preferable.
Mercury would appear an optimum choice. As for finding an old mine with a
shaft still usable and with roadways still inctact then you are ****ed before
you even start.

--

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggestbattery"
 

On 25/05/17 08:06, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2017 22:44:38 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote:

On Wed, 24 May 2017 13:57:19 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Maybe its cheaper just to flood old mines and use turbines to generate power
then pump them out when there is little demand. Is it any less efficient
than a bleedin big battery which needs to then be converted to AC in any
case?

Flood them with what?

Something liquid at room temperature and quite dense would be preferable.
Mercury would appear an optimum choice. As for finding an old mine with a
shaft still usable and with roadways still inctact then you are ****ed before
you even start.

The one they're talking about in Germany is still a working coal mine,
but due for closure next year. As to whether an old long-closed mine
can be reinstated would depend very much on the type of mine and the
geology of the site. Coal mines would be near impossible I would
think, but many tin and copper mines in Devon and Cornwall have been
re-opened in the past and even relatively recently after decades of
being closed.

It takes around 4-6 years to pump old mines dry before they can be reopened.



--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

In article , T i m
writes
On Wed, 24 May 2017 20:39:04 +0100, bert wrote:

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Tim Streater brought next idea :
Which you get from where? And when it comes to pumping it out, where
does the water go?

It would be pumped out to a lagoon, then allowed to flow back via the
generators.

A lagoon eh? And just how big would this lagoon be and where do you
suggest it is located?

We already have one and it's pretty big, it's called 'the sea'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Well some of our old coal mines are under the North Sea off the Durham
coast.
--
bert

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggestbattery"
 

On 26/05/17 15:04, bert wrote:
In article , T i m
writes
On Wed, 24 May 2017 20:39:04 +0100, bert wrote:

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Tim Streater brought next idea :
Which you get from where? And when it comes to pumping it out, where
does the water go?

It would be pumped out to a lagoon, then allowed to flow back via the
generators.

A lagoon eh? And just how big would this lagoon be and where do you
suggest it is located?

We already have one and it's pretty big, it's called 'the sea'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Well some of our old coal mines are under the North Sea off the Durham
coast.

lifetime of seawater pumps and turbines is not great.

And if they bitch about fracking clean water plus a teensy bit of
antibacterial into the ground, what would they think about dumping
tonnes of seawater into the aquifers.

Oh. Of course. Greens dont think. They emote with their 'emotional
intelligence'


--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggest battery"
 

In article , Tim Streater
writes
In article , bert wrote:

In article , T i m
writes
On Wed, 24 May 2017 20:39:04 +0100, bert wrote:

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Tim Streater brought next idea :
Which you get from where? And when it comes to pumping it out, where
does the water go?

It would be pumped out to a lagoon, then allowed to flow back via the
generators.

A lagoon eh? And just how big would this lagoon be and where do you
suggest it is located?

We already have one and it's pretty big, it's called 'the sea'. ;-)

Ah, so you're suggesting pumping seawater into old coal mines. Does
that work for the ones that are miles from the sea? And can you
guarantee no leakage of seawater into local aquifers?

I floated my questions above in the expectation that some numpty would
be drawn to them like a moth to a burning fart, and sure enough ...

And we reply to it tongue in cheek in the expectation... you know the
rest.
--
bert

[Power] "Next generation utility wins contract for UK's biggestbattery"
 

On 24/05/2017 14:32, Tim Streater wrote:
And when it comes to pumping it out, where
does the water go?

Especially as by then it will be quite heavily polluted.

Andy