Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage
supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a viable cap
anymore
anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in voltage
supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty capacitor can
cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

On 21/05/2017 22:59, Rod Speed wrote:


Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage
supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a viable cap
anymore
anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Is this your way of back-pedalling by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names when you've lost the argument.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of
a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a viable
cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

On Sunday, 21 May 2017 23:11:48 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 21/05/2017 22:59, Rod Speed wrote:


Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Is this your way of back-pedalling by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names when you've lost the argument.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

why do you waste time on it?

On 22/05/2017 00:29, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of supply,
even lower since it will be for lighting.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assetion.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or you've
lost the case. Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor
can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your
"statement of fact" will be seen as an admission you're promoting
yourself beyond your status.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You haven't won an argument but have lost it until you can explain how
how a relatively small capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause
flicker by an "electro"?

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure and is waiting for your explanation of how a
relatively small capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker
by an "electro".

No doubt the name calling will continue as an excuse for your lack of
knowledge and unwarranted assertion.

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC mains,
so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of supply,
even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assetion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.
All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or you've
lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause supply
anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

will be seen as an admission you're promoting yourself beyond your status.

Only by one particular lying bull**** artist that never
could bull**** and lie it way out of a wet paper bag.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You haven't won an argument

Dont need to. If the OP still has the problem,
its obviously worth trying without the cap and
costs very little more of its time to try that.

but have lost it until you can explain how how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro"?

Even sillier than you usually manage. Dont need any explanation,
JUST see the removal of the cap fix the problem.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure

He doesnt operate like that.

and is waiting for your explanation of how a relatively small capacitor
can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro".

He actually said that he has seen a bad cap do that.

reams of your even sillier **** flushed where it belongs

On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 02:13:43 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC mains,
so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of supply,
even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assetion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.
All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or you've
lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause supply
anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

will be seen as an admission you're promoting yourself beyond your status.

Only by one particular lying bull**** artist that never
could bull**** and lie it way out of a wet paper bag.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You haven't won an argument

Dont need to. If the OP still has the problem,
its obviously worth trying without the cap and
costs very little more of its time to try that.

but have lost it until you can explain how how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro"?

Even sillier than you usually manage. Dont need any explanation,
JUST see the removal of the cap fix the problem.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure

He doesnt operate like that.

and is waiting for your explanation of how a relatively small capacitor
can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro".

He actually said that he has seen a bad cap do that.

reams of your even sillier **** flushed where it belongs

proof of insanity for you

On 23/05/17 09:29, wrote:
snip three pages of utter BS that no one reads anyway

proof of insanity for you

Pot, kettle, black.


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 09:32:29 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/05/17 09:29, tabbypurr wrote:
snip three pages of utter BS that no one reads anyway

proof of insanity for you

Pot, kettle, black.

You're a joyful soul today.

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 02:13:43 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains,
so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of
a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of supply,
even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assetion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.
All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or you've
lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause supply
anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

will be seen as an admission you're promoting yourself beyond your
status.

Only by one particular lying bull**** artist that never
could bull**** and lie it way out of a wet paper bag.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You haven't won an argument

Dont need to. If the OP still has the problem,
its obviously worth trying without the cap and
costs very little more of its time to try that.

but have lost it until you can explain how how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro"?

Even sillier than you usually manage. Dont need any explanation,
JUST see the removal of the cap fix the problem.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure

He doesnt operate like that.

and is waiting for your explanation of how a relatively small capacitor
can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro".

He actually said that he has seen a bad cap do that.

reams of your even sillier **** flushed where it belongs

proof of insanity for you

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

On 23/05/2017 02:13, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance, there is also the 3% limit of
voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assetion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it? A bit like facts pulled out of a hat that
the Earth is flat, or Earth is the centre of the universe? They were
facts too by the equally uninformed.

You came up with an assertion, not a fact. Just because Adam has 'seen
it' it must be so? Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an
explanation?

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell. But of
course you can't.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

Yes, you call people names when you've lost the plot and got yourself in
a corner with a stupid assertion and nowhere to go.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause flicker, do you?

will be seen as an admission you're promoting yourself beyond your
status.

Only by one particular lying bull**** artist that never
could bull**** and lie it way out of a wet paper bag.


Ah proof you haven't a clue.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You haven't won an argument

Dont need to. If the OP still has the problem,
its obviously worth trying without the cap and
costs very little more of its time to try that.

Yes, you don't need to win an argument you have clearly already lost.

but have lost it until you can explain how how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro"?

Even sillier than you usually manage. Dont need any explanation,
JUST see the removal of the cap fix the problem.

More proof of your ineptitude.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure

He doesnt operate like that.

No, he sits back and watches you squirm.

and is waiting for your explanation of how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro".

He actually said that he has seen a bad cap do that.

There might be situations where a bad cap could, but not in this, where
your saying an 'electro' can cause power supply fluctuations leading to
flicker.

reams of your even sillier **** flushed where it belongs

For an even sillier assertion.

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

there is also the 3% limit of voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Also irrelevant with FAULTS.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assetion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it?

Everyone can see for themselves that I did,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And rubbed your stupid nose in the FACT that there is
no need for any explanation when its so trivial to remove
the cap and see if its what is causing the problem after
the more obvious possibilitys have been tried first.

You came up with an assertion, not a fact.

Its is a fact that a bad cap can produce what he is seeing.

Just because Adam has 'seen it' it must be so?

Yep, when he has seen a bad cap do that, that is precisely what it is.

Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an explanation?

Dont need any explanation, just observe
that removing the cap fixes the problem.

And the explanation for why removing the
cap fixes the problem is so ****ing obvious to
anyone with even half a ****ing clue anyway.

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell.

Just did. Remove the cap, it doesnt flicker anymore, ****wit.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

I never said that THAT was a lie, you lying bull**** artist.

You lie was about what you claimed I had said, you lying bull**** artist.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of
fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause flicker, do
you?

Doesnt need to when removing it stops the flicker, ****wit.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You haven't won an argument

Dont need to. If the OP still has the problem,
its obviously worth trying without the cap and
costs very little more of its time to try that.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

but have lost it until you can explain how how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro"?

Even sillier than you usually manage. Dont need any explanation,
JUST see the removal of the cap fix the problem.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure

He doesnt operate like that.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

and is waiting for your explanation of how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro".

He actually said that he has seen a bad cap do that.

There might be situations where a bad cap could, but not in this,

How odd that Adam has seen it.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

On 23/05/2017 19:42, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

there is also the 3% limit of voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Also irrelevant with FAULTS.

What sort of fault would you have in mind?

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assertion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it?

You mean you can't explain it? A bit like facts pulled out of a hat that
the Earth is flat, or Earth is the centre of the universe? They were
facts too by the equally uninformed.

You came up with an assertion, not a fact. Just because Adam has 'seen
it' it must be so? Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an
explanation?

Everyone can see for themselves that I did,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Perhaps they can, but you clearly can't.

And rubbed your stupid nose in the FACT that there is
no need for any explanation when its so trivial to remove
the cap and see if its what is causing the problem after
the more obvious possibilitys have been tried first.

'stupid nose'? If its so trivial do explain.

You came up with an assertion, not a fact.

Its is a fact that a bad cap can produce what he is seeing.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

Just because Adam has 'seen it' it must be so?

Yep, when he has seen a bad cap do that, that is precisely what it is.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an explanation?

Dont need any explanation, just observe
that removing the cap fixes the problem.

And the explanation for why removing the
cap fixes the problem is so ****ing obvious to
anyone with even half a ****ing clue anyway.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell.

Just did. Remove the cap, it doesnt flicker anymore, ****wit.

Who said the cap was removed?

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

I never said that THAT was a lie, you lying bull**** artist.

You called me a liar because I asked you to explain your assertion. What
am I lying about?

You lie was about what you claimed I had said, you lying bull**** artist.

You claimed the 'electro' can cause supply problems.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of
fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause flicker,
do you?

Doesnt need to when removing it stops the flicker, ****wit.

I keep asking you how an 'electro' could cause this flicker. Who said
removal will cure the problem?

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

Ah, the consequences of losing an argument.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You haven't won an argument

Dont need to. If the OP still has the problem,
its obviously worth trying without the cap and
costs very little more of its time to try that.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

Ah, the consequences of losing an argument.

but have lost it until you can explain how how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro"?

Even sillier than you usually manage. Dont need any explanation,
JUST see the removal of the cap fix the problem.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

Ah, the consequences of losing an argument.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure

He doesnt operate like that.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

Ah, the consequences of losing an argument.

and is waiting for your explanation of how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro".

He actually said that he has seen a bad cap do that.

There might be situations where a bad cap could, but not in this,

How odd that Adam has seen it.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

Ah, the consequences of losing an argument.

Is that it, then its the closest to an admission to a lost argument you
will ever admit.

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations in
the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

there is also the 3% limit of voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Also irrelevant with FAULTS.

What sort of fault would you have in mind?

In what gets the mains to the fluoro.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assertion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it?

Everyone can see for themselves that I did,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And rubbed your stupid nose in the FACT that there is
no need for any explanation when its so trivial to remove
the cap and see if its what is causing the problem after
the more obvious possibilitys have been tried first.

'stupid nose'? If its so trivial do explain.

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

You came up with an assertion, not a fact.

Its is a fact that a bad cap can produce what he is seeing.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Just because Adam has 'seen it' it must be so?

Yep, when he has seen a bad cap do that, that is precisely what it is.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an explanation?

Dont need any explanation, just observe
that removing the cap fixes the problem.

And the explanation for why removing the
cap fixes the problem is so ****ing obvious to
anyone with even half a ****ing clue anyway.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell.

Just did. Remove the cap, it doesnt flicker anymore, ****wit.

Who said the cap was removed?

Thats what you do to see if that the problem, ****wit.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

I never said that THAT was a lie, you lying bull**** artist.

You called me a liar

Yes.

because I asked you to explain your assertion.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth about that. Its still there in the
quoting, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

What am I lying about?

I told you in the next sentence, ****wit.

You lie was about what you claimed I had said, you lying bull**** artist.

You claimed the 'electro' can cause supply problems.

Everyone can see for themselves that I did nothing of the sort, ****wit.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of
fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause flicker,
do you?

Doesnt need to when removing it stops the flicker, ****wit.

I keep asking you how an 'electro' could cause this flicker.

And I keep telling you that its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You haven't won an argument

Dont need to. If the OP still has the problem,
its obviously worth trying without the cap and
costs very little more of its time to try that.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

but have lost it until you can explain how how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro"?

Even sillier than you usually manage. Dont need any explanation,
JUST see the removal of the cap fix the problem.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure

He doesnt operate like that.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

and is waiting for your explanation of how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro".

He actually said that he has seen a bad cap do that.

There might be situations where a bad cap could, but not in this,

How odd that Adam has seen it.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

On 23/05/2017 21:03, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a "partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp circuit
that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be generous and say
we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V into an 'electro' (as
you call them). How long would you say an 'electro' would last given
that "Both tubes in a flourescent are flickering and won't light"?

there is also the 3% limit of voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Also irrelevant with FAULTS.

What sort of fault would you have in mind?

In what gets the mains to the fluoro.

Yes read above.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assertion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it?

Everyone can see for themselves that I did,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And rubbed your stupid nose in the FACT that there is
no need for any explanation when its so trivial to remove
the cap and see if its what is causing the problem after
the more obvious possibilitys have been tried first.

'stupid nose'? If its so trivial do explain.

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

What has he seen?

You came up with an assertion, not a fact.

Its is a fact that a bad cap can produce what he is seeing.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

You can't explain?

Just because Adam has 'seen it' it must be so?

Yep, when he has seen a bad cap do that, that is precisely what it is.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

You still can't explain?

Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an explanation?

Dont need any explanation, just observe
that removing the cap fixes the problem.

And the explanation for why removing the
cap fixes the problem is so ****ing obvious to
anyone with even half a ****ing clue anyway.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

You made the assertion. Adam said "A duff one could cause problems". He
used the word "could". You said "Corse it can" some time earlier.

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell.

Just did. Remove the cap, it doesnt flicker anymore, ****wit.

Who said the cap was removed?

Thats what you do to see if that the problem, ****wit.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

I never said that THAT was a lie, you lying bull**** artist.

You called me a liar

Yes.

because I asked you to explain your assertion.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth about that. Its still there in the
quoting, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

What am I lying about?

I told you in the next sentence, ****wit.

Which sentence?

You lie was about what you claimed I had said, you lying bull****
artist.

You claimed the 'electro' can cause supply problems.

Everyone can see for themselves that I did nothing of the sort, ****wit.

Everyone can see your reply of "Corse it can" to "The capacitor can't
cause this".

Or are you now denying this and still calling me a liar?

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of
fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause flicker,
do you?

Doesnt need to when removing it stops the flicker, ****wit.

I keep asking you how an 'electro' could cause this flicker.

And I keep telling you that its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

More resorting to abuse to indicate you haven't a clue.

And Adam has said that it could be the cap.

If Adam said "jump of a cliff" would you feel obliged?

You never ever could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You'll have to pardon us if we decided that Adam might just
have more of a ****ing clue what a failed cap can produce
than some gutless pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

We all know you call people names

Thats not calling anyone names, thats a statement of fact.

when you've lost the argument.

Havent lost any argument, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You haven't won an argument

Dont need to. If the OP still has the problem,
its obviously worth trying without the cap and
costs very little more of its time to try that.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

More resorting to abuse to indicate you haven't a clue.

but have lost it until you can explain how how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an
"electro"?

Even sillier than you usually manage. Dont need any explanation,
JUST see the removal of the cap fix the problem.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

More resorting to abuse to indicate you haven't a clue.

And even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be
able to work out how to check if the cap is the problem
if someone was actually stupid enough to lend you a
seeing eye dog and a white cane.

And he still hasn't come back with an explanation.

Presumably he's noticed that you are a lying bull****
artist and that the best approach is to just ignore you.

I suspect Adam isn't sure

He doesnt operate like that.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

More resorting to abuse to indicate you haven't a clue.

and is waiting for your explanation of how a relatively small
capacitor can cause supply anomalies to cause flicker by an
"electro".

He actually said that he has seen a bad cap do that.

There might be situations where a bad cap could, but not in this,

How odd that Adam has seen it.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

Are you replying to your own post? Yes it is **** as Adam said nothing
of the sort.

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp circuit
that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be generous and say
we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

How long would you say an 'electro' would last given that "Both tubes in a
flourescent are flickering and won't light"?

there is also the 3% limit of voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Also irrelevant with FAULTS.

What sort of fault would you have in mind?

In what gets the mains to the fluoro.

Yes read above.

Completely useless, as always with your mindless silly ****.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assertion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it?

Everyone can see for themselves that I did,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And rubbed your stupid nose in the FACT that there is
no need for any explanation when its so trivial to remove
the cap and see if its what is causing the problem after
the more obvious possibilitys have been tried first.

'stupid nose'? If its so trivial do explain.

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

What has he seen?

You came up with an assertion, not a fact.

Its is a fact that a bad cap can produce what he is seeing.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Just because Adam has 'seen it' it must be so?

Yep, when he has seen a bad cap do that, that is precisely what it is.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an explanation?

Dont need any explanation, just observe
that removing the cap fixes the problem.

And the explanation for why removing the
cap fixes the problem is so ****ing obvious to
anyone with even half a ****ing clue anyway.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

You made the assertion.

I stated the fact that a bad cap could produce the symptoms seen.

Adam said "A duff one could cause problems". He used the word "could".

Because he had seen that happen.

You said "Corse it can" some time earlier.

Duh.

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell.

Just did. Remove the cap, it doesnt flicker anymore, ****wit.

Who said the cap was removed?

Thats what you do to see if that the problem, ****wit.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

I never said that THAT was a lie, you lying bull**** artist.

You called me a liar

Yes.

because I asked you to explain your assertion.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth about that. Its still there in the
quoting, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

What am I lying about?

I told you in the next sentence, ****wit.

Which sentence?

The NEXT sentence, ****wit. It isnt even a big word, ****wit.

You lie was about what you claimed I had said, you lying bull****
artist.

You claimed the 'electro' can cause supply problems.

Everyone can see for themselves that I did nothing of the sort, ****wit.

Everyone can see your reply of "Corse it can" to "The capacitor can't
cause this".

Duh.

Or are you now denying this

Nope.

and still calling me a liar?

Yep, but not about that, ****wit.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of
fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause flicker,
do you?

Doesnt need to when removing it stops the flicker, ****wit.

I keep asking you how an 'electro' could cause this flicker.

And I keep telling you that its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

On 23/05/2017 23:53, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause flicker?

How long would you say an 'electro' would last given that "Both tubes
in a flourescent are flickering and won't light"?

there is also the 3% limit of voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Also irrelevant with FAULTS.

What sort of fault would you have in mind?

In what gets the mains to the fluoro.

Yes read above.

Completely useless, as always with your mindless silly ****.

You can read?

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assertion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it?

Everyone can see for themselves that I did,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And rubbed your stupid nose in the FACT that there is
no need for any explanation when its so trivial to remove
the cap and see if its what is causing the problem after
the more obvious possibilitys have been tried first.

'stupid nose'? If its so trivial do explain.

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

What has he seen?

You came up with an assertion, not a fact.

Its is a fact that a bad cap can produce what he is seeing.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Just because Adam has 'seen it' it must be so?

Yep, when he has seen a bad cap do that, that is precisely what it is.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an explanation?

Dont need any explanation, just observe
that removing the cap fixes the problem.

And the explanation for why removing the
cap fixes the problem is so ****ing obvious to
anyone with even half a ****ing clue anyway.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

You made the assertion.

I stated the fact that a bad cap could produce the symptoms seen.

Adam said "A duff one could cause problems". He used the word "could".

Because he had seen that happen.

Where does he say that?

You said "Corse it can" some time earlier.

Duh.

Ah, so you're seeing the light after all? That you said "Corse it can"
to "The capacitor can't cause this".

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell.

Just did. Remove the cap, it doesnt flicker anymore, ****wit.

Who said the cap was removed?

Thats what you do to see if that the problem, ****wit.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

I never said that THAT was a lie, you lying bull**** artist.

You called me a liar

Yes.

because I asked you to explain your assertion.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth about that. Its still there in the
quoting, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

What am I lying about?

I told you in the next sentence, ****wit.

Which sentence?

The NEXT sentence, ****wit. It isnt even a big word, ****wit.

Don't you know what I was lying about? Is dementia creeping in?

You lie was about what you claimed I had said, you lying bull****
artist.

You claimed the 'electro' can cause supply problems.

Everyone can see for themselves that I did nothing of the sort, ****wit.

Everyone can see your reply of "Corse it can" to "The capacitor can't
cause this".

Duh.

Or are you now denying this

Nope.

We have moved a long way!

and still calling me a liar?

Yep, but not about that, ****wit.

About what then? Do you know yourself? Have you forgotten?

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement of
fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause flicker,
do you?

Doesnt need to when removing it stops the flicker, ****wit.

I keep asking you how an 'electro' could cause this flicker.

And I keep telling you that its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Are you replying to your own post? Yes it is **** as Adam said nothing of the sort.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

The only **** here is some idiot replying "Corse it can" to "The
capacitor can't cause this".

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause flicker?

Irrelevant when removing it stops the flicker.

How long would you say an 'electro' would last given that "Both tubes
in a flourescent are flickering and won't light"?

there is also the 3% limit of voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Also irrelevant with FAULTS.

What sort of fault would you have in mind?

In what gets the mains to the fluoro.

Yes read above.

Completely useless, as always with your mindless silly ****.

You can read?

You can certainly lie and bull****.

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assertion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it?

Everyone can see for themselves that I did,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And rubbed your stupid nose in the FACT that there is
no need for any explanation when its so trivial to remove
the cap and see if its what is causing the problem after
the more obvious possibilitys have been tried first.

'stupid nose'? If its so trivial do explain.

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

What has he seen?

You came up with an assertion, not a fact.

Its is a fact that a bad cap can produce what he is seeing.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Just because Adam has 'seen it' it must be so?

Yep, when he has seen a bad cap do that, that is precisely what it
is.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an explanation?

Dont need any explanation, just observe
that removing the cap fixes the problem.

And the explanation for why removing the
cap fixes the problem is so ****ing obvious to
anyone with even half a ****ing clue anyway.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

You made the assertion.

I stated the fact that a bad cap could produce the symptoms seen.

Adam said "A duff one could cause problems". He used the word "could".

Because he had seen that happen.

You said "Corse it can" some time earlier.

Duh.

Ah, so you're seeing the light after all?

More of your lies.

That you said "Corse it can" to "The capacitor can't cause this".

Because it can and does at times, ****wit.

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell.

Just did. Remove the cap, it doesnt flicker anymore, ****wit.

Who said the cap was removed?

Thats what you do to see if that the problem, ****wit.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

I never said that THAT was a lie, you lying bull**** artist.

You called me a liar

Yes.

because I asked you to explain your assertion.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth about that. Its still there in the
quoting, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

What am I lying about?

I told you in the next sentence, ****wit.

Which sentence?

The NEXT sentence, ****wit. It isnt even a big word, ****wit.

Don't you know what I was lying about?

I said what you lie about in the next sentence, ****wit.

Is dementia creeping in?

You've always been brain dead, no creeping involved.

You lie was about what you claimed I had said, you lying bull****
artist.

You claimed the 'electro' can cause supply problems.

Everyone can see for themselves that I did nothing of the sort,
****wit.

Everyone can see your reply of "Corse it can" to "The capacitor can't
cause this".

Duh.

Or are you now denying this

Nope.

We have moved a long way!

You are lying, as always.

and still calling me a liar?

Yep, but not about that, ****wit.

About what then?

I already told you, repeatedly, ****wit.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your statement
of
fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause flicker,
do you?

Doesnt need to when removing it stops the flicker, ****wit.

I keep asking you how an 'electro' could cause this flicker.

And I keep telling you that its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

On 24/05/2017 01:16, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor
characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause flicker?

Irrelevant when removing it stops the flicker.

Who said the flicker could stop after it's removed?

How long would you say an 'electro' would last given that "Both tubes
in a flourescent are flickering and won't light"?

there is also the 3% limit of voltage drop for a lighting circuit.

Also irrelevant with FAULTS.

What sort of fault would you have in mind?

In what gets the mains to the fluoro.

Yes read above.

Completely useless, as always with your mindless silly ****.

You can read?

You can certainly lie and bull****.

What lie and bull**** did you have in mind?

Is this your way of back-pedalling

No back pedalling at all.

Clearly you're just unable to explain your assertion.

It isnt an assertion, its a fact and when someone like
Adam has seen it, doesnt need any explanation either.

You mean you can't explain it?

Everyone can see for themselves that I did,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And rubbed your stupid nose in the FACT that there is
no need for any explanation when its so trivial to remove
the cap and see if its what is causing the problem after
the more obvious possibilitys have been tried first.

'stupid nose'? If its so trivial do explain.

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

What has he seen?

You came up with an assertion, not a fact.

Its is a fact that a bad cap can produce what he is seeing.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Just because Adam has 'seen it' it must be so?

Yep, when he has seen a bad cap do that, that is precisely what
it is.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

Do you see him endorsing your assertion with an explanation?

Dont need any explanation, just observe
that removing the cap fixes the problem.

And the explanation for why removing the
cap fixes the problem is so ****ing obvious to
anyone with even half a ****ing clue anyway.

Then explain the mechanism how an 'electro' can cause flicker?

No point, its been seen by someone with a clue, Adam.

You made the assertion.

I stated the fact that a bad cap could produce the symptoms seen.

Adam said "A duff one could cause problems". He used the word "could".

Because he had seen that happen.

You said "Corse it can" some time earlier.

Duh.

Ah, so you're seeing the light after all?

More of your lies.

What lie?

That you said "Corse it can" to "The capacitor can't cause this".

Because it can and does at times, ****wit.

Explain how. You haven't a clue, have you?

All it needs is to rub your stupid pig ignorant nose in
the FACT that a bad cap can produce that result and
given its so completely trivial to prove if the cap is
the problem in this particular case after the more
likely possibilitys have already been tried, only a
terminal ****wit such as yourself wouldnt try it without
the cap and would demand an explanation first.

If its trivial to prove an "electro" can cause flicker, do tell.

Just did. Remove the cap, it doesnt flicker anymore, ****wit.

Who said the cap was removed?

Thats what you do to see if that the problem, ****wit.

by calling me a "lying bull**** artist"?

Thats not calling you anything, its a statement
of fact as everyone can see for themselves.

You start calling people names when your knowledge is lacking or
you've lost the case.

I call lying bull**** artists lying bull**** artist when they
lie thru their ****ing teeth as we can all see you doing.

I don't see how asking you to explain your assertion is a lie?

I never said that THAT was a lie, you lying bull**** artist.

You called me a liar

Yes.

because I asked you to explain your assertion.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth about that. Its still there in the
quoting, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

What am I lying about?

I told you in the next sentence, ****wit.

Which sentence?

The NEXT sentence, ****wit. It isnt even a big word, ****wit.

Don't you know what I was lying about?

I said what you lie about in the next sentence, ****wit.

We still haven't established what the next sentence was.

Is dementia creeping in?

You've always been brain dead, no creeping involved.

You can't think how an 'electro' can cause flicker.

You lie was about what you claimed I had said, you lying bull****
artist.

You claimed the 'electro' can cause supply problems.

Everyone can see for themselves that I did nothing of the sort,
****wit.

Everyone can see your reply of "Corse it can" to "The capacitor can't
cause this".

Duh.

Or are you now denying this

Nope.

We have moved a long way!

You are lying, as always.

What lie, that you've moved?

and still calling me a liar?

Yep, but not about that, ****wit.

About what then?

I already told you, repeatedly, ****wit.

No you haven't, I'm still waiting to hear this lie.

Until you can explain how a relatively small capacitor can cause
supply anomalies to cause flicker by an "electro" your
statement of
fact"

Its a fact that Adam has seen a bad cap produce that, ****wit.

I don't see him explaining how a faulty 'electro' can cause
flicker,
do you?

Doesnt need to when removing it stops the flicker, ****wit.

I keep asking you how an 'electro' could cause this flicker.

And I keep telling you that its been seen by someone with a clue,
Adam.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

The only **** here is some idiot replying "Corse it can" to "The
capacitor can't cause this".

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor
characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used across
AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause flicker?

Irrelevant when removing it stops the flicker.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

On 24/05/2017 01:39, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this
first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't
cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has
tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing
perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor
characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used
across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the
sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to
answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause
flicker?

Irrelevant when removing it stops the flicker.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

The only **** here is some idiot replying "Corse it can" to "The
capacitor can't cause this".

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this
first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's
wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't
cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem when
the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has
tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing
perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor
characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used
across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be
causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the
sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to
answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a
faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low impedance
of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause
a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause
flicker?

Irrelevant when removing it stops the flicker.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

On 24/05/2017 02:07, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this
first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's
wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't
cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem
when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has
tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance
is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing
perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor
characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used
across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be
causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the
sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper
bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to
answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a
faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low
impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to
cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause
flicker?

Irrelevant when removing it stops the flicker.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

That looks an appropriate reply to one of your own posts.

We seem to have established you don't have a clue what a capacitor is,
call a component in a fluorescent an "electro" and snip facts so you can
reply to one of your own posts, a narcissistic tendency. You also you
say I'm a liar yet can't say what I have lied about.

You come across as a demented old fool who has a fetish with young
children such that he can't refrain from mentioning "2 year old" when
getting a little excited from a failed argument.

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this
first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's
wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't
cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem
when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has
tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance
is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing
perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor
characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used
across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting
full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be
causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the
sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper
bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to
answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a
faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low
impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to
cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause
flicker?

Irrelevant when removing it stops the flicker.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power through a layer of charcoal, you might be right. In the other 99.999% of cases you are as usual talking out of somewhere dark.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power
through a layer of charcoal, you might be right.

Doesnt need to do anything even remotely
like that to see the fluoros flicker with a bad cap.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 10:29:28 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power
through a layer of charcoal, you might be right.
In the other 99.999% of cases you are as usual talking out of somewhere dark.

Doesnt need to do anything even remotely
like that to see the fluoros flicker with a bad cap.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

Yet you're hopelessly unable to explain your point of view. Which is about as useful as a pig with 1 leg.


NT
snips put back in

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 10:29:28 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power
through a layer of charcoal, you might be right.
In the other 99.999% of cases you are as usual talking out of somewhere
dark.

Doesnt need to do anything even remotely
like that to see the fluoros flicker with a bad cap.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

Yet you're hopelessly unable to explain your point of view.

Everyone can see you are lying thru your ****ing teeth, as always.

On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 12:30:20 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 10:29:28 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power
through a layer of charcoal, you might be right.
In the other 99.999% of cases you are as usual talking out of somewhere
dark.

Doesnt need to do anything even remotely
like that to see the fluoros flicker with a bad cap.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

Yet you're hopelessly unable to explain your point of view.

Everyone can see you are lying thru your ****ing teeth, as always.

Please quote your explanation from this thread then.
Obviously you can't.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 12:30:20 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 10:29:28 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause
a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power
through a layer of charcoal, you might be right.
In the other 99.999% of cases you are as usual talking out of
somewhere
dark.

Doesnt need to do anything even remotely
like that to see the fluoros flicker with a bad cap.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

Yet you're hopelessly unable to explain your point of view.

Everyone can see you are lying thru your ****ing teeth, as always.

Please quote your explanation from this thread then.

Go and find it yourself. I said that a bad cap can see the voltage
the tubes get produce flicker, particularly when the feed to the
fitting hasnt been done as well as it could be or has a fault that
sees a higher impedance than normal which doesnt produce
the flicker until the cap goes bad.

And an explanation is irrelevant anyway when removing
the cap is so easy to do and proves if the cap is the problem.

Only pig ignorant lying bull**** artists like you two
would actually be stupid enough to proclaim that
no bad cap could ever produce any flickering.

And you'll have to pardon us if we have noticed
that Adam sees a hell of a lot more faults than
you two will ever see and is much more likely
to know whats possible than you two clowns.

On 24/05/2017 02:21, Fredxxx wrote:
On 24/05/2017 02:07, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote

Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this
first

Thought the same, done that.

So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's
wrong
starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't
cause
this.

Corse it can.

And is in fact by far the most likely problem
when the
tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has
tried
already.
The capacitor will be across mains in.

Yes.

Good, we have got that far.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance
is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?

You havent established that it is causing
perturbations
in the
voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by not
being a
viable cap anymore anyway.

Is that an admission that its not the capacitor?

Nope. If the tubes arent in series, that is by far
the most likely cause of the problem given
what he has tried that has made no difference.

Or are you thinking of some other capacitor
characteristic
that
might
cause this flicker,

Failure mode of electros, yep.

Electros? Is this a new component technology?

Certainly electrolytic capacitors are rarely used
across AC
mains, so
it must be some other capacitor technology.

if so do tell.

Most obviously if its got a significant partial short
now, as electros sometimes do when they have failed.
That could easily see the tubes no longer getting
full
mains voltage anymore, and so flicker now.

Are you now suggesting this partial short will be
causing
perturbations on mains voltage?

Nope, reduced mains voltage across the tubes.

And I didnt say WILL BE, I said IF.

Previously you said we haven't established that such a
"partial
short"
would cause "perturbations in the voltage supply".

Everyone can see themselves that I said nothing of the
sort
previously.

You really ought to make your mind up.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper
bag.

Is that your answer to a question you have failed to
answer?

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You said it could be the cap. I have asked how:
"Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in
the
order
of a
fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in
voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?"

Everyone can see for themselves that the question was
answered, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

You are incapable of providing an answer as to how a
faulty
capacitor
can cause flicker.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your ****ing teeth, as you always so when you
have got done like a ****ing dinner, as you always
are, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Are you now denying your reply of "Corse it can."

to "So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong
starters, bad
tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this."

Nope, the cap can cause what he is seeing.

Once again I ask you to explain how, given the low
impedance of
supply, even lower since it will be for lighting.

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to
cause a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

We have established that a 3% drop is acceptable, so for a 6Amp
circuit that equates to a max fault current of 200Amps. Lets be
generous and say we're looking at a 10% of this, say 20Amp at 240V

That aint a FAULT condition.

So how much current and power is your 'electro' taking to cause
flicker?

Irrelevant when removing it stops the flicker.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

That looks an appropriate reply to one of your own posts.

We seem to have established you don't have a clue what a capacitor is,
call a component in a fluorescent an "electro" and snip facts so you can
reply to one of your own posts, a narcissistic tendency. You also you
say I'm a liar yet can't say what I have lied about.

You come across as a demented old fool who has a fetish with young
children such that he can't refrain from mentioning "2 year old" when
getting a little excited from a failed argument.

QED