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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 19:51:22 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 12:30:20 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 10:29:28 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to cause
a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power
through a layer of charcoal, you might be right.
In the other 99.999% of cases you are as usual talking out of
somewhere
dark.

Doesnt need to do anything even remotely
like that to see the fluoros flicker with a bad cap.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

Yet you're hopelessly unable to explain your point of view.

Everyone can see you are lying thru your ****ing teeth, as always.


Please quote your explanation from this thread then.


Go and find it yourself.


Several of us looked, there was none

I said that a bad cap can see the voltage
the tubes get produce flicker, particularly when the feed to the
fitting hasnt been done as well as it could be


too vague to be meaningful

or has a fault that
sees a higher impedance than normal


what fault do you think would produce that?

which doesnt produce
the flicker until the cap goes bad.

And an explanation is irrelevant anyway when removing
the cap is so easy to do and proves if the cap is the problem.


it proves no such thing of course. Disturbing wiring leading to no more flicker is 100x more likely to be down to a poor connection than a bad cap


Only pig ignorant lying bull**** artists like you two
would actually be stupid enough to proclaim that
no bad cap could ever produce any flickering.


I explained exactly how it could. I also said that it's unlikely in the extreme.

And you'll have to pardon us if we have noticed
that Adam sees a hell of a lot more faults than
you two will ever see and is much more likely
to know whats possible than you two clowns.


a) that proves nothing
b) as mentioned such a scenario is more likely due to disturbing a bad connection. A bad cap simply has nothing to do with it. They either
a) lose capacitance, causing no flicker, or
b) ESR rises, causing no flicker, or
c) go leaky, causing no flicker, or
d) arc over, blowing a fuse or fusing themselves. No further flicker.


Further down the thread you say
There can obviously be a poor connection that
doesnt see any flicker until there is also a bad cap.


PF capacitors in fluoros actually reduce current consumption, so they would marginally improve things in such a case, if at all functional. If thoroughly shot the problem causing flicker is the bad connection, not the cap, which is never going to draw enough current to cause this.

Like almost all your explanations, it's your fantasies, and on closer examination they don't stand up. Those of us with some experience in the relevant field know this from that start. You consistently resort to abuse and avoiding the question in a feeble attempt to defend your position, and your explanations when provided show that you've not thought it through.

Once a month you get something right. The rest of the time you waste everyone's time with your fool's talk.


NT
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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering



wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 19:51:22 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 12:30:20 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 10:29:28 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to
cause
a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power
through a layer of charcoal, you might be right.
In the other 99.999% of cases you are as usual talking out of
somewhere
dark.

Doesnt need to do anything even remotely
like that to see the fluoros flicker with a bad cap.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

Yet you're hopelessly unable to explain your point of view.

Everyone can see you are lying thru your ****ing teeth, as always.

Please quote your explanation from this thread then.


Go and find it yourself.


Several of us looked, there was none


Lying thru your ****ing teeth, as you always do
when done like a ****ing dinner, as you always are.

I said that a bad cap can see the voltage the tubes
get produce flicker, particularly when the feed to
the fitting hasnt been done as well as it could be


too vague to be meaningful


You never could bull**** and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

or has a fault that sees a higher impedance than normal


what fault do you think would produce that?


A wiring fault, ****wit.

which doesnt produce the flicker until the cap goes bad.


And an explanation is irrelevant anyway when removing
the cap is so easy to do and proves if the cap is the problem.


it proves no such thing of course.


Corse it does when putting it back sees it flicker again.

Only pig ignorant lying bull**** artists like you two
would actually be stupid enough to proclaim that
no bad cap could ever produce any flickering.


I explained exactly how it could.


More of your lies.

I also said that it's unlikely in the extreme.


Irrelevant to what is possible. Caps fail, ****wit.

And you'll have to pardon us if we have noticed
that Adam sees a hell of a lot more faults than
you two will ever see and is much more likely
to know whats possible than you two clowns.


a) that proves nothing


You never could bull**** and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

b) as mentioned such a scenario is more likely due to disturbing a bad
connection.


But trivial to prove its the cap by seeing the
fault return when the cap is connected again.

Even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be able
to manage that if someone was actually stupid enough
to lend you a seeing eye dog and a white cane, again.

A bad cap simply has nothing to do with it.


There you go again, proclaiming that a cap can't do that.

They either
a) lose capacitance, causing no flicker, or
b) ESR rises, causing no flicker, or
c) go leaky, causing no flicker, or


That can see the voltage across the tubes reduced when there
is also significant resistance in the wiring to the fluoro, ****wit.

d) arc over, blowing a fuse or fusing themselves. No further flicker.


Further down the thread you say
There can obviously be a poor connection that
doesnt see any flicker until there is also a bad cap.


PF capacitors in fluoros actually reduce current consumption,


But dont do that AFTER THEY HAVE FAILED, ****wit.

so they would marginally improve things
in such a case, if at all functional.


Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

If thoroughly shot the problem causing flicker is the bad connection,
not the cap, which is never going to draw enough current to cause this.


Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage,
when the leakage and a poor connection in the wiring
produces a voltage divider that sees the tubes flicker.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs

Keep furiously digging, you'll be out in china any day now, ****wit child.


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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
..
**** snipped
Ohhhh look, it's silly Wodney, again.


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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

On Friday, 26 May 2017 02:39:04 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 19:51:22 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 12:30:20 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 May 2017 10:29:28 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:03:35 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You have no idea what the impedance of
the supply is with that PARTICULAR fluoro.

Most supplies are a very low impedance,

Most is irrelevant with faults.

How much power would be dissipated in a faulty 'electro' to
cause
a
meaningful fluctuation in voltage?

Depends on the state of the supply to the fluoro.

If the mains wiring has caught fire & is providing power
through a layer of charcoal, you might be right.
In the other 99.999% of cases you are as usual talking out of
somewhere
dark.

Doesnt need to do anything even remotely
like that to see the fluoros flicker with a bad cap.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

Yet you're hopelessly unable to explain your point of view.

Everyone can see you are lying thru your ****ing teeth, as always.

Please quote your explanation from this thread then.

Go and find it yourself.


Several of us looked, there was none


Lying thru your ****ing teeth, as you always do
when done like a ****ing dinner, as you always are.

I said that a bad cap can see the voltage the tubes
get produce flicker, particularly when the feed to
the fitting hasnt been done as well as it could be


too vague to be meaningful


You never could bull**** and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

or has a fault that sees a higher impedance than normal


what fault do you think would produce that?


A wiring fault, ****wit.

which doesnt produce the flicker until the cap goes bad.


And an explanation is irrelevant anyway when removing
the cap is so easy to do and proves if the cap is the problem.


it proves no such thing of course.


Corse it does when putting it back sees it flicker again.

Only pig ignorant lying bull**** artists like you two
would actually be stupid enough to proclaim that
no bad cap could ever produce any flickering.


I explained exactly how it could.


More of your lies.

I also said that it's unlikely in the extreme.


Irrelevant to what is possible. Caps fail, ****wit.

And you'll have to pardon us if we have noticed
that Adam sees a hell of a lot more faults than
you two will ever see and is much more likely
to know whats possible than you two clowns.


a) that proves nothing


You never could bull**** and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

b) as mentioned such a scenario is more likely due to disturbing a bad
connection.


But trivial to prove its the cap by seeing the
fault return when the cap is connected again.

Even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be able
to manage that if someone was actually stupid enough
to lend you a seeing eye dog and a white cane, again.

A bad cap simply has nothing to do with it.


There you go again, proclaiming that a cap can't do that.

They either
a) lose capacitance, causing no flicker, or
b) ESR rises, causing no flicker, or
c) go leaky, causing no flicker, or


That can see the voltage across the tubes reduced when there
is also significant resistance in the wiring to the fluoro, ****wit.

d) arc over, blowing a fuse or fusing themselves. No further flicker.


Further down the thread you say
There can obviously be a poor connection that
doesnt see any flicker until there is also a bad cap.


PF capacitors in fluoros actually reduce current consumption,


But dont do that AFTER THEY HAVE FAILED, ****wit.

so they would marginally improve things
in such a case, if at all functional.


Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

If thoroughly shot the problem causing flicker is the bad connection,
not the cap, which is never going to draw enough current to cause this.


Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage,
when the leakage and a poor connection in the wiring
produces a voltage divider that sees the tubes flicker.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs

Keep furiously digging, you'll be out in china any day now, ****wit child..


Thank you for proving beyond the slightest flicker of a doubt that you have no interest in getting real and every interest in lying blatantly in a pathetic attempt to defend your inadequacies. How a grown man can be so childish I do not know.
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Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
wrote just the puerile ****/
desperate attempt to bull**** its way out of its
predicament it always ends up with when its got
done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is.


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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

On Friday, 26 May 2017 10:43:41 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
tabbypurr wrote just the puerile ****/
desperate attempt to bull**** its way out of its
predicament it always ends up with when its got
done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is.


I think you have the maturity age of a 5 year old.
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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

On 20/05/17 16:07, R D S wrote:
Both tubes in a flourescent are flickering and won't light.


Christ, what a palaver I seem to have provoked!

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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
tabbypurr wrote just the puerile ****/
desperate attempt to bull**** its way out of its
predicament it always ends up with when its got
done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is.

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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
Fredxxx wrote just the puerile
****/desperate attempt to bull**** its way out of its
predicament it always ends up with when its got
done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is.

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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

On Friday, 26 May 2017 21:01:34 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
Fredxxx wrote just the puerile
****/desperate attempt to bull**** its way out of its
predicament it always ends up with when its got
done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is.


Maybe I was wrong about 5 year old. 4 year old.
It's pathetic.
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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
wrote just the puerile
****/desperate attempt to bull**** its way out of
its predicament it always ends up with when its
got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is.

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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

On Fri, 26 May 2017 18:19:52 +0100, R D S wrote:

On 20/05/17 16:07, R D S wrote:
Both tubes in a flourescent are flickering and won't light.


Christ, what a palaver I seem to have provoked!


Don't blame yourself. The "palaver" was largely the result of a "Rod
Speed baiting frenzy" by Fredxxx and tabbypurr most of which I swiftly
passed by unread (I did briefly consider killfiling both perpetrators
but, hey! it was a Rod Speed baiting exercise after all and he's already
in my killfile filter). :-)

Your post did give me cause to track down my "Lamps and Lighting" book
(1972 edition) to check out fluorescent ballast circuits but I didn't see
any twin tube switch start circuit examples (only one each of the
Quickstart , Rapid-start and cold-start transformer circuits, each sans
any 'starter switch').

I'm pretty certain the total of 14 fluorescent ballast circuits shown in
the book are far from an exhaustive list but I can't think where else I
may have seen a more comprehensive one.

Perhaps your twin tube fitting is simply two independently ballasted
switch started lamps wired to a common PFC capacitor? Does the fitting
use two plug in starters? Also, does removing one of the lamps prevent
the remaining one from even starting up or else modify the flickering
symptom if it does still light up?

It's quite possible that it's just a case of both lamps wearing out at
almost the same time. The second lamp to start flickering may well have
masked the flickering of the first lamp failure giving a false impression
that both lamps have either improbably failed simultaneously or else the
problem lies with another common component.

Having checked out what wikipedia has to say on the subject (not as much
as I'd hoped) and a google search, I did see a few examples of twin tube
fittings using switch starting where a couple of 2 foot 20W tubes are
connected in series via a single ballast choke to the mains supply using
two starter switches, one for each tube. To my mind, a rather improbable
circuit but since I saw at least three examples of this twin tube
circuit, I guess it must exist IRL.

If your fitting is using the same arrangement, it will be blessed (or
cursed) with *two* starter switches. Also, this means that removing any
one tube will cause the remaining tube to stop working (they are in
series). The presence of a starter across each tube must make for an
unusual starting sequence under normal working conditions (there's going
to be some interaction between the operation of each starter switch).

It seems that the flickering of *both* tubes only requires one of them
to go faulty, loss of emmissive material at a cathode, either from old
age or from premature failure. BTW, I can't figure out how a *single*
starter can be wired up to start a double tube fitting. If you've already
tried replacing "the starter switch", singular, I reckon you must have
missed one.

The problem could be as simple as a single tube failure. However, in
view of the liklihood of it being age related wear out, I'd suggest
replacing both tubes, keeping hold of the old but still working tube as a
spare for diagnostic testing purposes the next time one of the tubes
starts exhibiting such symptoms (often the result of being used way
beyond its useful 8,000 hours or so service life typical of use in switch
start circuits - 16000 hours being more typical with modern delay start
electronic HF ballast units).

--
Johnny B Good


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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

En el artículo , R D S
escribió:

Christ, what a palaver I seem to have provoked!


A killfile works wonders. I saw only five posts out of the 130 in the
thread, including yours.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West
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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

On Saturday, 27 May 2017 03:49:09 UTC+1, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 18:19:52 +0100, R D S wrote:
On 20/05/17 16:07, R D S wrote:
Both tubes in a flourescent are flickering and won't light.


Christ, what a palaver I seem to have provoked!


Don't blame yourself. The "palaver" was largely the result of a "Rod
Speed baiting frenzy" by Fredxxx and tabbypurr most of which I swiftly
passed by unread (I did briefly consider killfiling both perpetrators
but, hey! it was a Rod Speed baiting exercise after all and he's already
in my killfile filter). :-)


We tried to introduce him to reality on his own terms, a futile exercise.

Your post did give me cause to track down my "Lamps and Lighting" book
(1972 edition) to check out fluorescent ballast circuits but I didn't see
any twin tube switch start circuit examples (only one each of the
Quickstart , Rapid-start and cold-start transformer circuits, each sans
any 'starter switch').


you need a better book!

I'm pretty certain the total of 14 fluorescent ballast circuits shown in
the book are far from an exhaustive list but I can't think where else I
may have seen a more comprehensive one.

Perhaps your twin tube fitting is simply two independently ballasted
switch started lamps wired to a common PFC capacitor? Does the fitting
use two plug in starters? Also, does removing one of the lamps prevent
the remaining one from even starting up or else modify the flickering
symptom if it does still light up?

It's quite possible that it's just a case of both lamps wearing out at
almost the same time. The second lamp to start flickering may well have
masked the flickering of the first lamp failure giving a false impression
that both lamps have either improbably failed simultaneously or else the
problem lies with another common component.

Having checked out what wikipedia has to say on the subject (not as much
as I'd hoped)


what other info did you hope to find?

and a google search, I did see a few examples of twin tube
fittings using switch starting where a couple of 2 foot 20W tubes are
connected in series via a single ballast choke to the mains supply using
two starter switches, one for each tube. To my mind, a rather improbable
circuit but since I saw at least three examples of this twin tube
circuit, I guess it must exist IRL.


it was moderately common. A definite compromise but cheaper.

If your fitting is using the same arrangement, it will be blessed (or
cursed) with *two* starter switches. Also, this means that removing any
one tube will cause the remaining tube to stop working (they are in
series). The presence of a starter across each tube must make for an
unusual starting sequence under normal working conditions (there's going
to be some interaction between the operation of each starter switch).


yeah, it's a bit crazy to watch. But it gets there.

It seems that the flickering of *both* tubes only requires one of them
to go faulty, loss of emmissive material at a cathode, either from old
age or from premature failure.


could be either tube bad, either starter bad, or a bad connection somewhere. That's the main downside of 2 tubes on one switchstart ballast.

BTW, I can't figure out how a *single*
starter can be wired up to start a double tube fitting.


I don't believe it can


NT

If you've already
tried replacing "the starter switch", singular, I reckon you must have
missed one.

The problem could be as simple as a single tube failure. However, in
view of the liklihood of it being age related wear out, I'd suggest
replacing both tubes, keeping hold of the old but still working tube as a
spare for diagnostic testing purposes the next time one of the tubes
starts exhibiting such symptoms (often the result of being used way
beyond its useful 8,000 hours or so service life typical of use in switch
start circuits - 16000 hours being more typical with modern delay start
electronic HF ballast units).

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On 27/05/2017 11:52, wrote:
On Saturday, 27 May 2017 03:49:09 UTC+1, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 18:19:52 +0100, R D S wrote:
On 20/05/17 16:07, R D S wrote:
Both tubes in a flourescent are flickering and won't light.

Christ, what a palaver I seem to have provoked!


Don't blame yourself. The "palaver" was largely the result of a "Rod
Speed baiting frenzy" by Fredxxx and tabbypurr most of which I swiftly
passed by unread (I did briefly consider killfiling both perpetrators
but, hey! it was a Rod Speed baiting exercise after all and he's already
in my killfile filter). :-)


We tried to introduce him to reality on his own terms, a futile exercise.

Your post did give me cause to track down my "Lamps and Lighting" book
(1972 edition) to check out fluorescent ballast circuits but I didn't see
any twin tube switch start circuit examples (only one each of the
Quickstart , Rapid-start and cold-start transformer circuits, each sans
any 'starter switch').


you need a better book!

I'm pretty certain the total of 14 fluorescent ballast circuits shown in
the book are far from an exhaustive list but I can't think where else I
may have seen a more comprehensive one.

Perhaps your twin tube fitting is simply two independently ballasted
switch started lamps wired to a common PFC capacitor? Does the fitting
use two plug in starters? Also, does removing one of the lamps prevent
the remaining one from even starting up or else modify the flickering
symptom if it does still light up?

It's quite possible that it's just a case of both lamps wearing out at
almost the same time. The second lamp to start flickering may well have
masked the flickering of the first lamp failure giving a false impression
that both lamps have either improbably failed simultaneously or else the
problem lies with another common component.

Having checked out what wikipedia has to say on the subject (not as much
as I'd hoped)


what other info did you hope to find?

and a google search, I did see a few examples of twin tube
fittings using switch starting where a couple of 2 foot 20W tubes are
connected in series via a single ballast choke to the mains supply using
two starter switches, one for each tube. To my mind, a rather improbable
circuit but since I saw at least three examples of this twin tube
circuit, I guess it must exist IRL.


it was moderately common. A definite compromise but cheaper.

If your fitting is using the same arrangement, it will be blessed (or
cursed) with *two* starter switches. Also, this means that removing any
one tube will cause the remaining tube to stop working (they are in
series). The presence of a starter across each tube must make for an
unusual starting sequence under normal working conditions (there's going
to be some interaction between the operation of each starter switch).


yeah, it's a bit crazy to watch. But it gets there.

It seems that the flickering of *both* tubes only requires one of them
to go faulty, loss of emmissive material at a cathode, either from old
age or from premature failure.


could be either tube bad, either starter bad, or a bad connection somewhere. That's the main downside of 2 tubes on one switchstart ballast.

BTW, I can't figure out how a *single*
starter can be wired up to start a double tube fitting.


I don't believe it can


Given the 4 heaters need preheat to strike, I don't believe you can have
just the one starter either.
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On 27/05/2017 05:47, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , R D S
escribió:

Christ, what a palaver I seem to have provoked!


A killfile works wonders. I saw only five posts out of the 130 in the
thread, including yours.


It might have been smarter to have killed the whole thread.

But then you won't see this!
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On Saturday, 27 May 2017 12:52:10 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 27/05/2017 11:52, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 27 May 2017 03:49:09 UTC+1, Johnny B Good wrote:


BTW, I can't figure out how a *single*
starter can be wired up to start a double tube fitting.


I don't believe it can


Given the 4 heaters need preheat to strike, I don't believe you can have
just the one starter either.


Practically, no. If desperate one could make it work with only 2 getting preheat, but it wouldn't do tube life any good.


NT


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On Sat, 27 May 2017 05:23:28 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 27 May 2017 12:52:10 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 27/05/2017 11:52, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 27 May 2017 03:49:09 UTC+1, Johnny B Good wrote:


BTW, I can't figure out how a *single*
starter can be wired up to start a double tube fitting.

I don't believe it can


Given the 4 heaters need preheat to strike, I don't believe you can
have just the one starter either.


Practically, no. If desperate one could make it work with only 2 getting
preheat, but it wouldn't do tube life any good.


The point I was making was that the OP only mentioned trying a
replacement starter (*singular*) which implied some cunning circuit
topology where both tubes could be started using just a single starter
switch. However, once you've resorted to that sort of complexity, a
starter becomes redundent since you're now into the territory of twin
tube quickstart and rapidstart ballasts which can fire up the tubes
without any such switch starter devices.

Rather than speculate any further, I'll await the OP's response to
clarify the situation for us. I'm anticipating that he'll confirm the use
of a pair of starters and that the unit won't even attempt to light up
either of the remaining tubes once one of them has been pulled from the
fitting.

--
Johnny B Good
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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

On Saturday, 27 May 2017 18:17:44 UTC+1, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 05:23:28 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 27 May 2017 12:52:10 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 27/05/2017 11:52, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 27 May 2017 03:49:09 UTC+1, Johnny B Good wrote:


BTW, I can't figure out how a *single*
starter can be wired up to start a double tube fitting.

I don't believe it can

Given the 4 heaters need preheat to strike, I don't believe you can
have just the one starter either.


Practically, no. If desperate one could make it work with only 2 getting
preheat, but it wouldn't do tube life any good.


The point I was making was that the OP only mentioned trying a
replacement starter (*singular*) which implied some cunning circuit
topology where both tubes could be started using just a single starter
switch. However, once you've resorted to that sort of complexity, a
starter becomes redundent since you're now into the territory of twin
tube quickstart and rapidstart ballasts which can fire up the tubes
without any such switch starter devices.

Rather than speculate any further, I'll await the OP's response to
clarify the situation for us. I'm anticipating that he'll confirm the use
of a pair of starters and that the unit won't even attempt to light up
either of the remaining tubes once one of them has been pulled from the
fitting.


Of course the OP requires 2 starters, unless it's a cobbled together fitting of different ballast types, or some homebrewed oddity.

You can start 20w tubes by simplifying the setup rather than complicating it... just remove the starters & use an LC ballast instead of L. The resulting raised starting voltage slowly increases tube current until it lights properly. Done that before.


NT
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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

Rod Speed wrote:

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
R D S wrote
Phil L wrote


Is there a starter? - 35p each, I'd try this first


Thought the same, done that.


So you've got switchstart fittings. Then it's wrong starters,
bad tubes or bad contacts. The capacitor can't cause this.


Corse it can.


And is in fact by far the most likely problem when the tubes
arent connected in series after the things he has tried already.

The capacitor will be across mains in.


Yes.

Can you explain, assuming the supply impedance is in the
order of a fraction of an ohm, why a capacitor can cause the
perturbations in voltage supply to cause a substantial flicker?


You havent established that it is causing perturbations
in the voltage supply. And it can obviously do that by
not being a viable cap anymore anyway.


In this permissive society the capacitor can be anything it likes. But
the only way it is going to significantly affect the operation of the
tubes is by 'being' a sufficiently low impedance to operate the
over-current protection device protecting the supply. The OP would have
noticed such acting-out by the capacitor.

--

Roger Hayter
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Default Twin flourescent, both flickering

En el artículo , Roger Hayter
escribió:

The OP would have
noticed such acting-out by the capacitor.


Subtle.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West
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