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Skirting-mounted sockets
I have to prepare a relative's property for sale, and anticipate the
absence of any paperwork for wiring may raise some eyebrows. None of the wiring is older than 1985, bonding looks thorough, and the Consumer Unit has mcbs and a single RCD protecting all circuits. But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? I could just replace some of them with wago connectors or chocolate blocks behind blanking plates, but, given that I don't really want to do serious redecorating, what would be your recommendation? If I try to anticipate buyers' reactions and commission a Condition Report, what sort of cost would I be looking at? (East Midlands) -- Kevin |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/17 08:55, Kevin wrote:
I have to prepare a relative's property for sale, and anticipate the absence of any paperwork for wiring may raise some eyebrows. None of the wiring is older than 1985, bonding looks thorough, and the Consumer Unit has mcbs and a single RCD protecting all circuits. But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? I could just replace some of them with wago connectors or chocolate blocks behind blanking plates, but, given that I don't really want to do serious redecorating, what would be your recommendation? If I try to anticipate buyers' reactions and commission a Condition Report, what sort of cost would I be looking at? (East Midlands) Given sockets may be mounted in wooden panelling, the wood itself is not a concern. The problem that might be spotted is if the leads from plugs are kinked by being in close proximity to the floor - and that depends on the skirting height. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/2017 10:46, Huge wrote:
On 2017-04-19, Kevin wrote: I have to prepare a relative's property for sale, and anticipate the absence of any paperwork for wiring may raise some eyebrows. Having recently moved house, I wouldn't worry about it, frankly. No-one so much as asked. We sold my Mom's house about this time last year: the only requirement for paperwork was for work done after the date that part P certification was required, IIRC. We were asked when/if it was rewired (c. 1985). |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/2017 08:55, Kevin wrote:
I have to prepare a relative's property for sale, and anticipate the absence of any paperwork for wiring may raise some eyebrows. None of the wiring is older than 1985, bonding looks thorough, and the Consumer Unit has mcbs and a single RCD protecting all circuits. But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? I could just replace some of them with wago connectors or chocolate blocks behind blanking plates, but, given that I don't really want to do serious redecorating, what would be your recommendation? Leave them as they are. No one will be that fussed, and then if questioned (unlikely) you know nothing about the electrics, and can only advise the new buyer to have their own checks done if they are at all concerned. If I try to anticipate buyers' reactions and commission a Condition Report, what sort of cost would I be looking at? (East Midlands) Leave it neat and tidy. Slap a coat of emulsion on things if they need it or look tired. Wipe any gunge off switches and sockets, and replace any obviously broken fittings. That ought to be enough. If someone comes back and says it needs a full rewire (usually just as a stick to try beat the price down), you can either tell em its a buyers market and you have other offers, or agree a reduction in price depending on the actual circumstances at the time. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Skirting-mounted sockets
Kevin Wrote in message:
I have to prepare a relative's property for sale, and anticipate the absence of any paperwork for wiring may raise some eyebrows. None of the wiring is older than 1985, bonding looks thorough, and the Consumer Unit has mcbs and a single RCD protecting all circuits. But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? I could just replace some of them with wago connectors or chocolate blocks behind blanking plates, but, given that I don't really want to do serious redecorating, what would be your recommendation? If I try to anticipate buyers' reactions and commission a Condition Report, what sort of cost would I be looking at? (East Midlands) Swap the metal boxes for plastic patresses & keep quiet? -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
Kevin wrote: But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? Surface mounted anything in a living area would throw up doubts here. Says a cheap job has been done. -- *Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 11:11:32 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/04/2017 08:55, Kevin wrote: I have to prepare a relative's property for sale, and anticipate the absence of any paperwork for wiring may raise some eyebrows. None of the wiring is older than 1985, bonding looks thorough, and the Consumer Unit has mcbs and a single RCD protecting all circuits. But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? I could just replace some of them with wago connectors or chocolate blocks behind blanking plates, but, given that I don't really want to do serious redecorating, what would be your recommendation? Leave them as they are. No one will be that fussed, and then if questioned (unlikely) you know nothing about the electrics, and can only advise the new buyer to have their own checks done if they are at all concerned. If I try to anticipate buyers' reactions and commission a Condition Report, what sort of cost would I be looking at? (East Midlands) Leave it neat and tidy. Slap a coat of emulsion on things if they need it or look tired. Wipe any gunge off switches and sockets, and replace any obviously broken fittings. That ought to be enough. If someone comes back and says it needs a full rewire (usually just as a stick to try beat the price down), you can either tell em its a buyers market and you have other offers, or agree a reduction in price depending on the actual circumstances at the time. +1, it's a non-issue really. Electrics don't need to be redone to the latest regs to sell. If such things are raised it's purely an empty negotiating tactic, and usually best not taken seriously. NT |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/2017 10:46, Huge wrote:
On 2017-04-19, Kevin wrote: I have to prepare a relative's property for sale, and anticipate the absence of any paperwork for wiring may raise some eyebrows. Having recently moved house, I wouldn't worry about it, frankly. No-one so much as asked. Quite. If a female is involved in the purchase then she will only care about the kitchen, bathroom, whether it has a pony paddock, is in the catchment area for a decent school and has parking for at least three diesel 4X4's. If there are snazy downlighters then she won't even consider the possibility that the original 1 mm wiring might be overloaded or wrapped around the hottest part of the downlighters. The only thing that puts off a female buyer is if the property has a baxi bermuda back boiler, even if it is in perfect condition and very effective, or if the bathroom is nice and clean but has a pampas green suite. If it was anywhere near London then it might as well have gas lighting, an outside toilet and original DC rubber wiring because there will be a queue of buyers. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/2017 11:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Kevin wrote: But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? Surface mounted anything in a living area would throw up doubts here. Says a cheap job has been done. I thought the OP meant the metal back boxes had been sunk into the skirting board (which is quite possible with 11 inch deep skirting that has a big gap behind the lower, widest section). All the fancy brass power sockets in the House of Layabouts are installed like this. In this case all I would do is make sure than proper grommets have been used where the cable enters through the knockout. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In message , Huge
writes No-one so much as mentioned electrics, insulation, Part 'P', plumbing or anything else that people fret about on here. Agreed. That sort of thing has never arisen when I have bought or sold properties, and didn't when we sold my mother's flat a few months ago. The usual enquiry form, of course, but most of that was 'don't know', which did not put off the purchaser. -- Graeme |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
Andrew wrote: On 19/04/2017 11:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Kevin wrote: But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? Surface mounted anything in a living area would throw up doubts here. Says a cheap job has been done. I thought the OP meant the metal back boxes had been sunk into the skirting board (which is quite possible with 11 inch deep skirting that has a big gap behind the lower, widest section). Difficult to know what he meant. My initial read was he was concerned they weren't at waist height. Which only idiots would put up with in a living room. All the fancy brass power sockets in the House of Layabouts are installed like this. No - that was last year. This year it is polished chrome. Or black? In this case all I would do is make sure than proper grommets have been used where the cable enters through the knockout. It makes sense to have the electrics checked before buying any house. But to do a thorough job will take a deal of time, and mean disturbing fittings. Not something I'd allow just anyone to do here, if I were selling. -- *Two wrongs are only the beginning * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
Huge wrote: My M-I-L's house was in North London, and although recently rewired (I brow-beat her into having it done), otherwise it was in desperate need of refurbishment. Although structurally sound, it needed new windows throughout & external doors, a heating system and insulation installed, a new kitchen and bathroom, totally redecorating and doubtless much else. We went to sealed bids and got £20K over the asking price. A neighbour across the road recently moved out. They had within the last few years spent over a quarter of a million on a basement conversion - and said they would only sell if they got their asking price. Just testing the water, as all they really wanted was to stay in the area, but have a larger back garden. So I assume they did get their asking price, or more. New owners haven't moved in yet - about a couple of months. But workmen have been in all that time. Doing gawd knows what as it was in near perfect condition, inside and out. -- *I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/17 08:55, Kevin wrote:
[snip request for advice on electrics in house being sold] OP he To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. My concern arose from having just lost a "buyer". Details are unclear, partly because people (especially estate agents) don't always tell the truth. The "buyer" had commissioned a survey of some sort, and the surveyor told me he'd found nothing serious but in the absence of an electrical report, he'd be recommending an inspection. Fast forward to the "buyer" telling the agent it needed (inter alia) completely rewiring, and then deciding she didn't want to go ahead at any price. OK, she'd changed her mind - it happens - but my concern is that she is almost exactly the type of buyer it will attract. We're trying to get hold of the survey to see what he actually said, but if I could avoid recurrence by doing something relatively trivial, it might be worth it. We are dealing with old ladies, not necessarily rational beings. -- Kevin |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 16:18:25 UTC+1, Kevin wrote:
On 19/04/17 08:55, Kevin wrote: [snip request for advice on electrics in house being sold] OP he To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. you don't say whether these are surface mount boxes or flush ones, and whether they're surface mounted or flush. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. immaterial My concern arose from having just lost a "buyer". Details are unclear, partly because people (especially estate agents) don't always tell the truth. The "buyer" had commissioned a survey of some sort, and the surveyor told me he'd found nothing serious but in the absence of an electrical report, he'd be recommending an inspection. all surveys say that, it's arse covering. Fast forward to the "buyer" telling the agent it needed (inter alia) completely rewiring, on what basis? It sounds unlikely. and then deciding she didn't want to go ahead at any price. OK, she'd changed her mind - it happens - unlikely to be anything to do with wiring. If it is then they're going to find the same with nearly every house. but my concern is that she is almost exactly the type of buyer it will attract. We're trying to get hold of the survey to see what he actually said, but if I could avoid recurrence by doing something relatively trivial, it might be worth it. We are dealing with old ladies, not necessarily rational beings. If your buyer pulled out they did so for reasons you're not likely to solve by paying for a rewire. And you won't get the cost of it back on the sale price. NT |
Skirting-mounted sockets
Andrew wrote:
If it was anywhere near London then it might as well have gas lighting, an outside toilet and original DC rubber wiring because there will be a queue of buyers. Daughters house in Crouch End sold for 750K some years ago, the CU was loose in a cupboard adjacent to the fireplace with the worst wiring i've ever seen. I think it would now sell for 1M and it's totally crap. Sold in a few weeks IIRC! |
Skirting-mounted sockets
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Andrew wrote: On 19/04/2017 11:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Kevin wrote: But there are 7 sockets mounted with steel back boxes directly on/in the timber skirting. Are these likely to cause "don't touch it without a re-wire" reports? Surface mounted anything in a living area would throw up doubts here. Says a cheap job has been done. I thought the OP meant the metal back boxes had been sunk into the skirting board (which is quite possible with 11 inch deep skirting that has a big gap behind the lower, widest section). Difficult to know what he meant. My initial read was he was concerned they weren't at waist height. Which only idiots would put up with in a living room. All the fancy brass power sockets in the House of Layabouts are installed like this. No - that was last year. This year it is polished chrome. Or black? In this case all I would do is make sure than proper grommets have been used where the cable enters through the knockout. It makes sense to have the electrics checked before buying any house. But to do a thorough job will take a deal of time, and mean disturbing fittings. Not something I'd allow just anyone to do here, if I were selling. I wonder if metal boxes were used for protection? A lot of plastic patress boxes are very brittle. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
Kevin wrote: To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. Ah - it is about height? There is no law about this - only a recommendation. Are they perfectly usable as is? Not so close to the floor it puts a strain on the flex when inserting a plug? -- *And the cardiologist' s diet: - If it tastes good spit it out. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
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Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/2017 17:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Kevin wrote: To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. Ah - it is about height? There is no law about this - only a recommendation. Are they perfectly usable as is? Not so close to the floor it puts a strain on the flex when inserting a plug? It would start alarm bells ringing. Such low sockets would be associated with old electrics. I have seen many place rewired with sockets (usually replaced like for like) on the skirting to save on redecoration costs. Unless there is further investigation or proper paper work the assumption is that the wiring is old. -- Adam |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article , ARW
wrote: On 19/04/2017 17:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Kevin wrote: To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. Ah - it is about height? There is no law about this - only a recommendation. Are they perfectly usable as is? Not so close to the floor it puts a strain on the flex when inserting a plug? It would start alarm bells ringing. Such low sockets would be associated with old electrics. I have seen many place rewired with sockets (usually replaced like for like) on the skirting to save on redecoration costs. In this house, the skirting would have to be replaced since all the sockets are just above floor level and cut into the skirting. It doesn't make the wiring old - it isn't, but refitting skirting which would have to be specially made, since it's Edwardian woul have been a right pain -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 20:41:35 UTC+1, Kevin wrote:
On 19/04/17 17:08, tabbypurr wrote: On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 16:18:25 UTC+1, Kevin wrote: On 19/04/17 08:55, Kevin wrote: [snip request for advice on electrics in house being sold] OP he To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. you don't say whether these are surface mount boxes or flush ones, and whether they're surface mounted or flush. BS4662 metal back boxes, mounted such that the sockets appear to be flush-mounted, just as one would on a plastered wall. sounds good These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. immaterial According to my OSG (OK, 16th ed) Building Regs have an accessibility requirement which mounting at a suitable height can satisfy. immaterial My concern arose from having just lost a "buyer". Details are unclear, partly because people (especially estate agents) don't always tell the truth. The "buyer" had commissioned a survey of some sort, and the surveyor told me he'd found nothing serious but in the absence of an electrical report, he'd be recommending an inspection. all surveys say that, it's arse covering. I expect it was, but it frightens some buyers, especially old ladies who haven't bought a house in 50 years (and whose husband sorted it all out back then) yup. nothing you can do about that Fast forward to the "buyer" telling the agent it needed (inter alia) completely rewiring, on what basis? It sounds unlikely. No logical basis, afaik. She's probably the local equivalent of the Thurber character. and then deciding she didn't want to go ahead at any price. OK, she'd changed her mind - it happens - unlikely to be anything to do with wiring. If it is then they're going to find the same with nearly every house. One factor of many perhaps? Or of none? nearly all houses are the same in this respect but my concern is that she is almost exactly the type of buyer it will attract. We're trying to get hold of the survey to see what he actually said, but if I could avoid recurrence by doing something relatively trivial, it might be worth it. We are dealing with old ladies, not necessarily rational beings. If your buyer pulled out they did so for reasons you're not likely to solve by paying for a rewire. And you won't get the cost of it back on the sale price. No question of major expenditure like that - it's whether a few quid on blanking plates and wago connectors would be a sensible investment. blanking plates wouldn't make the wiring look more modern. You're chasing a red herring. NT |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/2017 16:18, Kevin wrote:
On 19/04/17 08:55, Kevin wrote: [snip request for advice on electrics in house being sold] OP he To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. The height of existing sockets is a non issue and has no bearing on their electrical safety or if the place needs a rewire. The height requirement comes from part M of the building regs (accessibility for disabled users), and only applies to new work, not existing. Also if new work is done, you can usually get away with it being no worse than before rather than fully to the current new build spec. My concern arose from having just lost a "buyer". Details are unclear, partly because people (especially estate agents) don't always tell the truth. The "buyer" had commissioned a survey of some sort, and the surveyor told me he'd found nothing serious but in the absence of an electrical report, he'd be recommending an inspection. Fast forward to the "buyer" telling the agent it needed (inter alia) completely rewiring, and then deciding she didn't want to go ahead at any price. OK, she'd changed her mind - it happens - That really is the only point that matters. Once the decision has been made, any further detail is just an attempt to justify the decision and save a bit of face. but my concern is that she is almost exactly the type of buyer it will attract. We're trying to get hold of the survey to see what he actually said, but if I could avoid recurrence by doing something relatively trivial, it might be worth it. We are dealing with old ladies, not necessarily rational beings. So long as the sockets are mounted safely - i.e. they are sunken flush into the skirting with the metal box non visible to the casual observer, there is no problem (I could understand a surface mounted flush box would however look ugly and scream "bodge" to any prospective viewer). -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/2017 20:41, Kevin wrote:
On 19/04/17 17:08, wrote: On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 16:18:25 UTC+1, Kevin wrote: On 19/04/17 08:55, Kevin wrote: [snip request for advice on electrics in house being sold] OP he To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. you don't say whether these are surface mount boxes or flush ones, and whether they're surface mounted or flush. BS4662 metal back boxes, mounted such that the sockets appear to be flush-mounted, just as one would on a plastered wall. That's fine then. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. immaterial According to my OSG (OK, 16th ed) Building Regs have an accessibility requirement which mounting at a suitable height can satisfy. Does not apply to an existing installation. If you rewired, then you might place the sockets at the 450mm minimum height. Note that if you did you are equally likely to put off buyers, who find that sockets mounted "half way up the wall" rather on the skirting where they expect that nature and God intended them to be, are butt ugly. If your buyer pulled out they did so for reasons you're not likely to solve by paying for a rewire. And you won't get the cost of it back on the sale price. No question of major expenditure like that - it's whether a few quid on blanking plates and wago connectors would be a sensible investment. That's just going to make a normal looking installation look abnormal. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
charles wrote: In article , ARW wrote: On 19/04/2017 17:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Kevin wrote: To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. Ah - it is about height? There is no law about this - only a recommendation. Are they perfectly usable as is? Not so close to the floor it puts a strain on the flex when inserting a plug? It would start alarm bells ringing. Such low sockets would be associated with old electrics. I have seen many place rewired with sockets (usually replaced like for like) on the skirting to save on redecoration costs. In this house, the skirting would have to be replaced since all the sockets are just above floor level and cut into the skirting. It doesn't make the wiring old - it isn't, but refitting skirting which would have to be specially made, since it's Edwardian woul have been a right pain I'd certainly never fit sockets on 6" high skirting. They would IMHO be too close to the floor. My standard height is 10" above the floor to the bottom of the socket. But the idea of having them at waist height absolutely stupid - except in perhaps custom built sheltered housing for the elderly. If you're going to say all sockets should be easily accessible for those with limited movement, I'd hope you'd also legislate for handrails on both sides of stairs, non slip floor coverings everywhere, and handrails inside showers, etc. -- *War does not determine who is right - only who is left. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
Kevin wrote: If your buyer pulled out they did so for reasons you're not likely to solve by paying for a rewire. And you won't get the cost of it back on the sale price. No question of major expenditure like that - it's whether a few quid on blanking plates and wago connectors would be a sensible investment. You think having fewer sockets in a room a plus for selling the house? -- *I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 20/04/2017 00:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , charles wrote: In article , ARW wrote: On 19/04/2017 17:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Kevin wrote: To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. Ah - it is about height? There is no law about this - only a recommendation. Are they perfectly usable as is? Not so close to the floor it puts a strain on the flex when inserting a plug? It would start alarm bells ringing. Such low sockets would be associated with old electrics. I have seen many place rewired with sockets (usually replaced like for like) on the skirting to save on redecoration costs. In this house, the skirting would have to be replaced since all the sockets are just above floor level and cut into the skirting. It doesn't make the wiring old - it isn't, but refitting skirting which would have to be specially made, since it's Edwardian woul have been a right pain I'd certainly never fit sockets on 6" high skirting. They would IMHO be too close to the floor. My standard height is 10" above the floor to the bottom of the socket. Generally, yes, agreed. Although 10" would be a little too conspicuous in most of my home - inch above skirting is about right. But the idea of having them at waist height absolutely stupid On redoing a study room I put one in an alcove at about 2', thinking it'd be easy to access, not too conspicuous, and useful for the intended desk/computers. It wasn't entirely thought through, but in the event it's proved very useful. Not just for the planned purpose, but also occasional pluggage - hoover and such. I have the mixed fortune of staying in hotels abroad quite a bit - they often have sockets at waist and bed height. Not the last word in room-eleagnce, but functional. - except in perhaps custom built sheltered housing for the elderly. Not there - yet ;-) If you're going to say all sockets should be easily accessible for those with limited movement, I'd hope you'd also legislate for handrails on both sides of stairs, non slip floor coverings everywhere, and handrails inside showers, etc. I don't think it works quite that way. -- Cheers, Rob |
Skirting-mounted sockets
"RJH" wrote in message ... On 20/04/2017 00:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , charles wrote: In article , ARW wrote: On 19/04/2017 17:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Kevin wrote: To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. Ah - it is about height? There is no law about this - only a recommendation. Are they perfectly usable as is? Not so close to the floor it puts a strain on the flex when inserting a plug? It would start alarm bells ringing. Such low sockets would be associated with old electrics. I have seen many place rewired with sockets (usually replaced like for like) on the skirting to save on redecoration costs. In this house, the skirting would have to be replaced since all the sockets are just above floor level and cut into the skirting. It doesn't make the wiring old - it isn't, but refitting skirting which would have to be specially made, since it's Edwardian woul have been a right pain I'd certainly never fit sockets on 6" high skirting. They would IMHO be too close to the floor. My standard height is 10" above the floor to the bottom of the socket. So are mine, essentially because they are in the middle of the 8" block that is one course above the quarry tiles concrete slab floor. Cept for the dunnys, bathrooms and kitchens of course. Generally, yes, agreed. Although 10" would be a little too conspicuous in most of my home Almost none of mine are visible now and I have loads of sockets everywhere because I did it all myself. - inch above skirting is about right. I don’t have any skirting at all. The quarry tiles were laid after the walls went onto the concrete slab that is the entire floor of the whole place and a 6' deep slab right down half of the 100' sunny long side of the house. But the idea of having them at waist height absolutely stupid On redoing a study room I put one in an alcove at about 2', thinking it'd be easy to access, not too conspicuous, and useful for the intended desk/computers. It wasn't entirely thought through, but in the event it's proved very useful. Not just for the planned purpose, but also occasional pluggage - hoover and such. All of my fixed stuff like that just has a lead to the nearest double socket. Really doesn’t matter what height it is, it might get plugged once every couple of decades. I have the mixed fortune of staying in hotels abroad quite a bit - they often have sockets at waist and bed height. The backpackers I was silly enough to stay in had them mostly on the skirting and hardly any of them actually worked. I had to sit in the passage way to charge the phone. Not the last word in room-eleagnce, but functional. - except in perhaps custom built sheltered housing for the elderly. Not there - yet ;-) Me neither and I don’t plan to ever live in any either. If you're going to say all sockets should be easily accessible for those with limited movement, I'd hope you'd also legislate for handrails on both sides of stairs, non slip floor coverings everywhere, and handrails inside showers, etc. I don't think it works quite that way. Because it doesn’t cost much to mandate the socket height but costs a lot more for that other stuff. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 19/04/17 21:12, ARW wrote:
On 19/04/2017 17:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Kevin wrote: To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. Ah - it is about height? There is no law about this - only a recommendation. Are they perfectly usable as is? Not so close to the floor it puts a strain on the flex when inserting a plug? There is a building regulation. Disability access. So new sockets are NOT to be installed below IIRC 450mm so that your ageing geriatrics don.t have to bend down to plug in the chainsaw, but can trip over the flexes instead. I had to comply with it back in 2002 It would start alarm bells ringing. Such low sockets would be associated with old electrics. I have seen many place rewired with sockets (usually replaced like for like) on the skirting to save on redecoration costs. Unless there is further investigation or proper paper work the assumption is that the wiring is old. -- Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 20/04/17 00:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip If you're going to say all sockets should be easily accessible for those with limited movement, I'd hope you'd also legislate for handrails on both sides of stairs, non slip floor coverings everywhere, and handrails inside showers, etc. I don't think anyone here is saying that 450mm high sockets (hardly waist-high) are a universally good idea. I certainly don't think they are, but any feature which enables a surveyor to write "Does not comply with current standards", no matter whether the standards apply to the property in question or not, is not what old ladies like to see on surveys. -- Kevin |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 20/04/2017 09:52, Kevin wrote:
On 20/04/17 00:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: snip If you're going to say all sockets should be easily accessible for those with limited movement, I'd hope you'd also legislate for handrails on both sides of stairs, non slip floor coverings everywhere, and handrails inside showers, etc. I don't think anyone here is saying that 450mm high sockets (hardly waist-high) are a universally good idea. I certainly don't think they are, but any feature which enables a surveyor to write "Does not comply with current standards", no matter whether the standards apply to the property in question or not, is not what old ladies like to see on surveys. You really are over thinking this ;-) There are very few properties in the country that do comply with all modern standards. Building regs are not retrospective, and there is no requirement (generally) to upgrade a property to meet the current standards when it was compliant with the appropriate standard in force when originally installed. Surveyors reports generally don't comment on how compliant with standards the electrics are. They are far more likely to make rather less precise statements like "The wiring appears to be in good order, though we suggest you seek a report from an electrical specialist if you require a more comprehensive assessment", or "It was noted that some locations do not appear to have an adequate number of sockets", or "some electrical accessories appear to be damaged and should be checked and replaced by a competent electrician". Since you suggestion seems to be: Chase in new sockets, extend the wires to the new locations, and then blank all the old socket positions, ISTM that all you would achieve to draw more attention to them in the first place. Not to mention making it look fugly! However, as was observed earlier, once a mind is made up, any excuse will do! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On Thursday, 20 April 2017 11:49:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
You really are over thinking this ;-) There are very few properties in the country that do comply with all modern standards. Building regs are not retrospective, and there is no requirement (generally) to upgrade a property to meet the current standards when it was compliant with the appropriate standard in force when originally installed. nor for work that was never compliant. NT |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
RJH wrote: But the idea of having them at waist height absolutely stupid On redoing a study room I put one in an alcove at about 2', thinking it'd be easy to access, not too conspicuous, and useful for the intended desk/computers. It wasn't entirely thought through, but in the event it's proved very useful. Not just for the planned purpose, but also occasional pluggage - hoover and such. That's fine in your own house when you've decided on the layout. But people have their own taste when it comes to how each room will be used - and where any furniture goes. -- *Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
Kevin wrote: On 20/04/17 00:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: snip If you're going to say all sockets should be easily accessible for those with limited movement, I'd hope you'd also legislate for handrails on both sides of stairs, non slip floor coverings everywhere, and handrails inside showers, etc. I don't think anyone here is saying that 450mm high sockets (hardly waist-high) are a universally good idea. I certainly don't think they are, but any feature which enables a surveyor to write "Does not comply with current standards", no matter whether the standards apply to the property in question or not, is not what old ladies like to see on surveys. I doubt any old house complies with current standards. -- *DON'T SWEAT THE PETTY THINGS AND DON'T PET THE SWEATY THINGS. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 20/04/2017 14:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Kevin wrote: On 20/04/17 00:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: snip If you're going to say all sockets should be easily accessible for those with limited movement, I'd hope you'd also legislate for handrails on both sides of stairs, non slip floor coverings everywhere, and handrails inside showers, etc. I don't think anyone here is saying that 450mm high sockets (hardly waist-high) are a universally good idea. I certainly don't think they are, but any feature which enables a surveyor to write "Does not comply with current standards", no matter whether the standards apply to the property in question or not, is not what old ladies like to see on surveys. I doubt any old house complies with current standards. I would be surprised if any of the new builds I work in do (apart from my electrics of course). -- Adam |
Skirting-mounted sockets
On 20/04/2017 07:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/17 21:12, ARW wrote: On 19/04/2017 17:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Kevin wrote: To confirm the detail: 7 sockets in total are mounted on 6x1 nominal skirting boards. They each have a standard 25mm or so "metal box" behind them. These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height, and an easy target for any inspection. Ah - it is about height? There is no law about this - only a recommendation. Are they perfectly usable as is? Not so close to the floor it puts a strain on the flex when inserting a plug? There is a building regulation. Disability access. So new sockets are NOT to be installed below IIRC 450mm so that your ageing geriatrics don.t have to bend down to plug in the chainsaw, but can trip over the flexes instead. I had to comply with it back in 2002 The height requirement only applies to new builds, full rewires or "substantial" partial rewires. Any new sockets added to an existing system with low sockets can also have them low down. SteveW |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , RJH wrote: But the idea of having them at waist height absolutely stupid On redoing a study room I put one in an alcove at about 2', thinking it'd be easy to access, not too conspicuous, and useful for the intended desk/computers. It wasn't entirely thought through, but in the event it's proved very useful. Not just for the planned purpose, but also occasional pluggage - hoover and such. That's fine in your own house when you've decided on the layout. But people have their own taste when it comes to how each room will be used - and where any furniture goes. when we bought this house the room I am in had a central heating radiator in the the middle of two walls, a large window ina thrid and a hatch to the kitchen in the fourth. Nowhere to place any furniture - oh and the power outlets were set into the walls 2 ft from the corners or door frames! -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
Skirting-mounted sockets
Kevin wrote:
These sockets are therefore non-compliant on height The part M recommendations for the height of sockets and switches only applies in new builds (or extensions to buildings to which Part M already applies) so doesn't need fixing. |
Skirting-mounted sockets
Dave Plowman wrote:
It makes sense to have the electrics checked before buying any house. But to do a thorough job will take a deal of time, and mean disturbing fittings. Not something I'd allow just anyone to do here, if I were selling. Yes, of course your electrician can inspect the wiring ... provided he uses a spirit level when putting faceplates back, replaces any M3.5 screws where he strips the thread, gets the heads of all screws precisely aligned, leaves all gangs of two-way switches in the same orientation and resets any clocks that end up flashing "12:00" :-) |
Skirting-mounted sockets
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman wrote: It makes sense to have the electrics checked before buying any house. But to do a thorough job will take a deal of time, and mean disturbing fittings. Not something I'd allow just anyone to do here, if I were selling. Yes, of course your electrician can inspect the wiring ... provided he uses a spirit level when putting faceplates back, replaces any M3.5 screws where he strips the thread, gets the heads of all screws precisely aligned, leaves all gangs of two-way switches in the same orientation and resets any clocks that end up flashing "12:00" :-) You missed out re-laying floorboards and carpets etc correctly. ;-) -- *Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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