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Default OT looking for basic accounts software as going self-employed

I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax return.

Any recommendations?
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Murmansk wrote:

I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for
some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit
my tax return.


I switched from running a company using Sage Line50 for the last 20
years, to being self employed a year ago, and would strongly recommend
you look at FreeAgent, about £200/year, 30 day free trial available.

I haven't used it to submit a tax return yet, but I've looked at how it
uses the data you've entered through the year to collect the information
it needs to do it, and it looks good enough that I don't think I'll use
an accountant to file my sole trader self assessment forms.

http://freeagent.com

Any recommendations?


It's web based, really makes everything simple, you can create/send
invoices, record mileage and expenses from the phone app, imports
statements that you export from your bank (it can hook direct to you r
bank, but I wouldn't trust the service it uses to have my banking
credentials).

It's by produced by accountants for but people they recognise are not
very interested in accounting, just getting stuff done.

I have a referral code, if you happen to sign up, we both get some discount

http://fre.ag/45dl740i

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On 07/04/2017 18:33, Murmansk wrote:
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some basic/che

ap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax return.

Any recommendations?

Do you really need a paid-for accounts package? Your accounts will be
very simple and straightforward. Why not use Excel and see how you get on?

Bill
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In message ,
Murmansk writes
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some
basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax
return.


I have been self employed for 15 years, and found spreadsheets perfectly
OK to keep my accounts, although do employ an accountant to give my
figures a quick once over, then transfer the totals to my tax return,
which he does online.

Strongly suggest you keep every scrap of paper, and keep everything
labelled and filed. What is familiar today will cause headaches if
needed 5 or 6 years later. I don't use anything sophisticated - just
plastic and manilla envelopes, but all are carefully labelled and filed,
'just in case'.

--
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On Friday, 7 April 2017 19:28:05 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
Do you really need a paid-for accounts package? Your accounts will be
very simple and straightforward. Why not use Excel and see how you get on?


Because using an accounts package sort-of forces you to keep accounts in a format that should add up correctly and be acceptable to the Revenue.

Putting stuff in Excel isn't much use if Excel isn't set up correctly - and if you don't know anything about accounts you probably don't know how to set it up correctly. If Excel isn't set up correctly you might as well be using Paint.

Also using accounts software automates the quotation - invoice - statement - reminder - payment - reconciliation process especially if it integrates with bank and card-machine providers.

Owain



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Bill Wright wrote:

Damn! I've been doing it wrong all these years!


Nobody is saying what is a right or wrong method, just what they see as
workable methods.

My granddad used to fill a shoebox with bit of paper and go and dump it
on his accountant's desk, my first year in business I did everything in
a multi-column accounting book which does let you get the hang of what's
going on, I'm sure you can use a spreadsheet.

But for the fees involved, an accounts package does make it a piece of
****, and lets you see the effect on the quarter's VAT or year's PAYE/NI
of each transaction as and when you enter it, rather than calculating it
all at the end. Yes you could do that in a spreadsheet, but you need to
understand what data the spreadsheet needs to contain, in order to feed
the formulae ...


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On 07/04/2017 19:51, Graeme wrote:
In message ,
Murmansk writes
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for
some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my
tax return.


I have been self employed for 15 years, and found spreadsheets perfectly
OK to keep my accounts, although do employ an accountant to give my
figures a quick once over, then transfer the totals to my tax return,
which he does online.

Strongly suggest you keep every scrap of paper, and keep everything
labelled and filed. What is familiar today will cause headaches if
needed 5 or 6 years later. I don't use anything sophisticated - just
plastic and manilla envelopes, but all are carefully labelled and filed,
'just in case'.


Very good advice. Keep everything, and be meticulous in your filing,
both paper and computer.

In addition to this, it's a good idea to make an electronic record of
all paperwork, as well as keeping the paper version. Obviously this only
applies to incoming documents, since all outgoing ones will be computer
generated anyway. Since this is only to be used in case of emergency the
effortless way to do it is to simply photograph each document and file
them all by weekly date. In other words just dump your camera contents
onto the computer every Friday night.

It's also vital to back up all computer files. Don't trust one back-up;
have several. For instance back up to a removable drive that you keep
somewhere well away from the desk machine, and/or to a laptop or USB
stick ditto. Also back up to Dropbox.

As regards a filing system on the computer you will obviously do one to
suit yourself, but as an example mine has the following folders for each
trading year, each with sub-folders:

Accounts (sub-folders for inputs and outputs)
Communications, customer (sub-folders for each major customer, plus
'others')
Communications, supplier, (sub-folders for each major supplier, plus
'others')
Communications other
Labels
Leaflets etc (end user)
Leaflets etc (landlords)
System plans
System photographs
Technical information
Vehicles
Video and audio files
Warranty documents on purchases

Good luck! Don't worry about making a lot of money in the first year.
Concentrate on building up your customer base.

Bill




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On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk wrote:

I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax return.

Any recommendations?


Anything of use here?
http://win.softpedia.com/dyn-search....erm=accounting
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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On 07/04/17 18:33, Murmansk wrote:
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax return.

Any recommendations?

Most people use a spreadsheet.

Gnucash seems OK for basic stuff.

Runs on all platforms.

Setting up accounting for the first time can be daunting: I suggest
employing an accountant to help.


--
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kind word alone.

Al Capone




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In message , Andy Burns
writes
Bill Wright wrote:

Damn! I've been doing it wrong all these years!


Nobody is saying what is a right or wrong method, just what they see as
workable methods.

My granddad used to fill a shoebox with bit of paper and go and dump it
on his accountant's desk, my first year in business I did everything in
a multi-column accounting book which does let you get the hang of
what's going on, I'm sure you can use a spreadsheet.

But for the fees involved, an accounts package does make it a piece of
****, and lets you see the effect on the quarter's VAT or year's
PAYE/NI of each transaction as and when you enter it, rather than
calculating it all at the end. Yes you could do that in a spreadsheet,
but you need to understand what data the spreadsheet needs to contain,
in order to feed the formulae ...


Having looked at various accounts packages and attended a course based
on Sage? (I forget the number) I am still using Guildhall accounts
books.

Modestly priced packages do not offer a full service and try to lure you
to buying the full system.

For year end tax return/accountants you need to categorise income and
expenditure. For a micro business this may not be critical but the
Inland Revenue expect to be able to separate things like new build from
repairs and renewals as the tax position is different.

If I had been taught excel when my brain was receptive .......



--
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I'd suggest getting an accountant, from my experience they can save you a
lot more than they cost. Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Murmansk wrote:

I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for
some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit
my tax return.


I switched from running a company using Sage Line50 for the last 20 years,
to being self employed a year ago, and would strongly recommend you look
at FreeAgent, about £200/year, 30 day free trial available.

I haven't used it to submit a tax return yet, but I've looked at how it
uses the data you've entered through the year to collect the information
it needs to do it, and it looks good enough that I don't think I'll use an
accountant to file my sole trader self assessment forms.

http://freeagent.com

Any recommendations?


It's web based, really makes everything simple, you can create/send
invoices, record mileage and expenses from the phone app, imports
statements that you export from your bank (it can hook direct to you r
bank, but I wouldn't trust the service it uses to have my banking
credentials).

It's by produced by accountants for but people they recognise are not very
interested in accounting, just getting stuff done.

I have a referral code, if you happen to sign up, we both get some
discount

http://fre.ag/45dl740i



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In article ,
Murmansk writes:
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax return.

Any recommendations?


I do it all online, using https://www.freeagent.com
(it's not free, but it's not expensive either).

I go via an accountant, but you can simply go directly yourself
if you know enough of the accountancy rules for running a business.
The accountant sets it all up for me properly and then it does
everything automatically and instantly when I enter details,
including generating all the filled in forms for HMRC such as VAT,
Self Assessment, etc. It can submit them directly too.
It produces my invoices and records my stock (although that's not
a significant issue for me). It can also record different projects
separately.
You can have it automatically update from your bank - I don't like
the idea, although lots of people do it.
It can tell you what your profit/loss is at any instant.
There's a mobile app although I haven't tried that - I use it via
standard web interface.

One thing I'm not sure how well it will handle lots of customers;
I have around a handful of customers. Also, probably not suitable
for handling a large number of stock lines.

Also, check out insurances, your liabilities as a self-employed
person (I think it everything you have including your house).
This is a useful conversation to have with an accountant.

--
Andrew Gabriel
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In article ,
Murmansk wrote:
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some
basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax
return.


Any recommendations?


I used Prophet when still working. it was originally for Acorn, but ported
to the PC too.

Very flexible and can issue invoices too - and do stock control.

Not sure if it's still on the go.

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman London SW
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Murmansk posted
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some
basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax
return.

Any recommendations?



From April 2018, HMRC will force all self-employed people to use
record-keeping software of its own choosing. Simple versions of this
software will be provided free of charge (so it says), though nothing
has been made available yet.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...al-for-busines
s

If I were you I'd just record my income and outgoings on a couple of
spreadsheets for this current year, and then wait and see what the great
minds of HMRC wheel out for 2018/19. In fact, that's exactly what I *am*
doing myself.

--
Jack
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On 09/04/2017 09:16, Handsome Jack wrote:
Murmansk posted
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for
some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my
tax return.

Any recommendations?



From April 2018, HMRC will force all self-employed people to use
record-keeping software of its own choosing. Simple versions of this
software will be provided free of charge (so it says), though nothing
has been made available yet.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...al-for-busines
s

If I were you I'd just record my income and outgoings on a couple of
spreadsheets for this current year, and then wait and see what the great
minds of HMRC wheel out for 2018/19. In fact, that's exactly what I *am*
doing myself.


I'd have thought a handyman would need a vehicle so, assuming it's not
going to be *solely* for business, a bit more than that might be
advisable - eg business mileage at a minimum (so can use the flat rate
allowances).

If the OP is wholly new to this then HMRC give an overview of expenses at

https://www.gov.uk/simpler-income-ta...ified-expenses

https://www.gov.uk/simpler-income-ta...enses/overview

and to working out profits at

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...e-profits-2016

But I'd not like to set up spreadsheets from scratch on the basis of
that or of textbooks if I'd never met the subject before. IMHO you
can't beat sitting with Nellie when getting started.

And if the OP's going to buy a van for the work I'd recommend getting
advice on how to deal with that for tax purposes as there are more
options than ever with the cash basis and AIA on top of simplified
expenses. All too difficult for me these days.

--
Robin
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In message , Robin
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And if the OP's going to buy a van for the work I'd recommend getting
advice on how to deal with that for tax purposes as there are more
options than ever with the cash basis and AIA on top of simplified
expenses. All too difficult for me these days.

We're getting further away from the original question now but, if the OP
is becoming self employed for the first time, it is important to know
just what can be deducted for tax purposes. Working from home?
Dedicate a part of the home as office, and claim, say, ten percent of
all household bills. Going out in the car? Buy something for the
business, and claim car running expenses, including parking. Just keep
all receipts. Forever.

Using a home PC for business records and accounts? Claim for it - and
the cost of modems, routers, ISP, cables, printers, inks, paper etc.
Claim for the cost of any new desk, filing cabinet, files etc.

Married? Employ the wife if she is not working elsewhere. Make sure
she does something, though. Pop to suppliers, write cheques, file
invoices, type quotes or whatever. Claim for her car too, if she uses
it for business.

Claim for overalls, boots, gloves, masks, tools etc.

As regards the accounts, I found it easiest to start with a blank profit
and loss account, with all the required fields blank, then work
backwards from that, so I knew where I needed to end up, with the
figures.
--
Graeme
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In article ,
Graeme wrote:
We're getting further away from the original question now but, if the OP
is becoming self employed for the first time, it is important to know
just what can be deducted for tax purposes. Working from home?
Dedicate a part of the home as office, and claim, say, ten percent of
all household bills. Going out in the car? Buy something for the
business, and claim car running expenses, including parking. Just keep
all receipts. Forever.


Using a home PC for business records and accounts? Claim for it - and
the cost of modems, routers, ISP, cables, printers, inks, paper etc.
Claim for the cost of any new desk, filing cabinet, files etc.


Married? Employ the wife if she is not working elsewhere. Make sure
she does something, though. Pop to suppliers, write cheques, file
invoices, type quotes or whatever. Claim for her car too, if she uses
it for business.


Claim for overalls, boots, gloves, masks, tools etc.


If doing your own accounts, you may find that the IR spends more time
looking at claims for allowances than if they come from a qualified
accountant. And may well question many of them. Especially for things
which aren't solely for business use - like a car or computer.

--
*I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. I just can't put it down.*

Dave Plowman London SW
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On 09/04/2017 09:55, Robin wrote:


But I'd not like to set up spreadsheets from scratch on the basis of
that or of textbooks if I'd never met the subject before.


Spreadsheets are not the correct tool for record keeping, you want a
database.
You can use a spreadsheet to analyse the data in the database.

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Thanks everyone for those replies, comments and useful information
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On 4/9/2017 10:26 AM, Graeme wrote:
In message , Robin
writes

And if the OP's going to buy a van for the work I'd recommend getting
advice on how to deal with that for tax purposes as there are more
options than ever with the cash basis and AIA on top of simplified
expenses. All too difficult for me these days.

We're getting further away from the original question now but, if the OP
is becoming self employed for the first time, it is important to know
just what can be deducted for tax purposes. Working from home? Dedicate
a part of the home as office, and claim, say, ten percent of all
household bills. Going out in the car? Buy something for the business,
and claim car running expenses, including parking. Just keep all
receipts. Forever.

Using a home PC for business records and accounts? Claim for it - and
the cost of modems, routers, ISP, cables, printers, inks, paper etc.
Claim for the cost of any new desk, filing cabinet, files etc.


After I retired from full time employment but continued doing a small
amount of consultancy I found HMRC very relaxed about claiming for a
couple of laptops and a printer. But I actually chose not to try to
claim for phone, car, office as in my case the business "costs" were
relatively trivial. I didn't bother with an accountant. Basically I live
on my pensions, the work is just beer money. Well, decent claret and
burgundy money.


Married? Employ the wife if she is not working elsewhere. Make sure
she does something, though. Pop to suppliers, write cheques, file
invoices, type quotes or whatever. Claim for her car too, if she uses
it for business.


Certainly worth doing in some cases. My wife doesn't pay tax but it
isn't worth constructing the story in our case. OTOH one of my kids runs
a small business and his wife is about to deliver their first-born. Not
worth her while going back to minimum wage work later, better to do
unpaid record keeping on benefits and eventually take a salary for it,
up to the tax threshold.


Claim for overalls, boots, gloves, masks, tools etc.

As regards the accounts, I found it easiest to start with a blank profit
and loss account, with all the required fields blank, then work
backwards from that, so I knew where I needed to end up, with the figures.


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On 09/04/2017 10:26, Graeme wrote:
Working from home? Dedicate
a part of the home as office, and claim, say, ten percent of all
household bills.


But remember that any increase in the value of the house during the
period you claim this will result in a tax bill eventually.

Going out in the car? Buy something for the business,
and claim car running expenses, including parking. Just keep all
receipts. Forever.


If it's a car and you have no other car, better to claim a stated
proportion of the running costs (and show your working). Otherwise
they'll come to you years later with a demand, which you won't be able
to contest.


Using a home PC for business records and accounts? Claim for it - and
the cost of modems, routers, ISP, cables, printers, inks, paper etc.
Claim for the cost of any new desk, filing cabinet, files etc.


Same thing as the car. It has to be 'wholly and exclusively' for
business use for you to claim on 100%.


Married? Employ the wife if she is not working elsewhere. Make sure
she does something, though. Pop to suppliers, write cheques, file
invoices, type quotes or whatever. Claim for her car too, if she uses
it for business.


No. Consider a partnership.

Claim for overalls, boots, gloves, masks, tools etc.


Every business expense in fact, as long as it's 'wholly and exclusively'
for business use. Otherwise claim a proportion. Advertising, internet
costs, website design, phone, mobile phones, AA membership, professional
association membership, insurances, trade magazines, postage,
stationery, the lot.

Bill
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In message , Bill Wright
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Every business expense in fact, as long as it's 'wholly and
exclusively' for business use. Otherwise claim a proportion.
Advertising, internet costs, website design, phone, mobile phones, AA
membership, professional association membership, insurances, trade
magazines, postage, stationery, the lot.


Absolutely. I said earlier that I consulted an accountant as soon as I
became self employed, so at least I knew what I was aiming at with
accounts, and had a guide as to what could, and could not be claimed
against tax. Agreed that only a proportion of household costs can be
claimed. I think my figure was 8 or 10 per cent, or thereabouts. Every
little helps.
--
Graeme


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In message , Graeme
writes
In message , Bill Wright
writes

Every business expense in fact, as long as it's 'wholly and
exclusively' for business use. Otherwise claim a proportion.
Advertising, internet costs, website design, phone, mobile phones, AA
membership, professional association membership, insurances, trade
magazines, postage, stationery, the lot.


Absolutely. I said earlier that I consulted an accountant as soon as I
became self employed, so at least I knew what I was aiming at with
accounts, and had a guide as to what could, and could not be claimed
against tax. Agreed that only a proportion of household costs can be
claimed. I think my figure was 8 or 10 per cent, or thereabouts.
Every little helps.


VAT not mentioned so far.

For agriculture with most outputs zero rated and tax on inputs fully
claimable it makes sense to join at almost any level of turnover.

For a modest handyman operation with a proportion of cash payment,
charging customers an extra 20% will not grow the business. Other
benefits such as VAT allowance on vehicle fuel may not pay off either. I
haven't looked recently but the assumed non business use far outweighed
our actual consumption:-(
--
Tim Lamb
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In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Every business expense in fact, as long as it's 'wholly and exclusively'
for business use. Otherwise claim a proportion. Advertising, internet
costs, website design, phone, mobile phones, AA membership, professional
association membership, insurances, trade magazines, postage,
stationery, the lot.


It's where a decent accountant helps. He will know what the IR will pass
'on the nod' for each profession. Saving you both a great deal of work.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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On 11/04/2017 07:32, Graeme wrote:

against tax. Agreed that only a proportion of household costs can be
claimed. I think my figure was 8 or 10 per cent, or thereabouts. Every
little helps.


But if your property value goes up a lot during the period you can end
up losing out.

Bill
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On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 6:33:24 PM UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax return.

Any recommendations?


https://erpnext.com/
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