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Default Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the SociopathicAttention Whore

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:29:55 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:
PeterC wrote:

I've killfiled JWS and The Peeler so if you'd shut TFU about JWS I won't
have to KF you.
I don't see their peurile garbage and I don't want your dubious obsession
reminding me of it, thank you.


+1

Chris

JWS initiated this lengthy discussion and so far the only one (except me
) who has not contributed one iota of sensible discussion has been
someone called The Peeler.JWS may annoy many but in this instance this
discussion would not have been.
Does The peeler ever initiate posts,or only react to JWS posts?


Tell PeterC to get a decent killfile that doesn't see replies to my posts.

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Default Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the SociopathicAttention Whore

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:26:08 -0000, The Peeler wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 00:20:31 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

FLUSH yet more insipid BULL**** unread


Usin the word flush makes you sound like Rod Speed.

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Default How much current flows through pylons?

In article , Andrew Mawson
wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
...


SNIP

How much of the route from the power station to the consumer is
redundant multi-circuit? At one point, typically, does it change over
to a given house only being fed by one set of wires, and if that line
develops a fault there is no backup circuit?

Is there a backup route as far as the final substation that transforms
to 11 kV or 400V, or is it higher up the chain?

I presume for maximum redundancy they try to use feeds from different
places rather than two sets of wires carried on the same pylons, in case
an accident takes out *all* the wires (both circuits).

I'm intrigued at the way house gets its electricity supply. There is
overhead mains on wooden poles (originally four separate wires, now a
single fat cable with four wires) and our house is the middle house of
two adjacent blocks of three houses. There is a single feed from the
wooden poles to the end of one block, and then four wires running along
the back of one block, overhead across the gap to the next block and
along there, with each house taking its feed from neutral and one of
the three phases - I think no two adjacent houses are on the same
phase. I suppose this is less unsightly than every one of the six
houses having its own single-phase feed from the street poles.




They always used to rotate phases down a street, so (say) phase 1 -
house 1, phase 2 - house 2, phase 3 - house 3, then phase 1 - street
lighting, phase 2 - house 4 and so on down the road to balance the load
between phases.


I think they stopped doing that many years ago. There's a small
development of 26 bungalows near us - built about 30 years ago - all on the
same phase.

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Default How much current flows through pylons?

In article , Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
NY has brought this to us :
Out here in a North Yorkshire village there seem to be 11 kV spurs,
each with a pole-mounted transformer to step down to 240V. Where I'm
sitting I can see the end of the 11 kV line and its transformer. Its
240V cables go underground to houses on one side of the road (probably
built in 1950s) and then come above ground to 3-phase 240V overhead
wires to the houses on the other side of the road (1930s).


Are you sure it is 11Kv - more likely it will be 3.3Kv.


when I worked with SESEB (c 1960) 11kV was the lowest voltage for bulk
supply.

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Default How much current flows through pylons?

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
expressed precisely :
Wonder if H Bloomfield did a typo and meant 33Kv which is used
frequently .


No, I meant 3.3Kv or 3Kv3. So far as I am aware, all 11Kv and up is on
metal poles.



Plenty of 11kV on wooden poles

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Default How much current flows through pylons?

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 20/03/17 16:05, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher explained :
Proof by assertion?

11KV round here. Underground. Watched em put in in

I can find no mention of 3.3KV grid ANYWHERE at all.

It's used primarily for motors and as an intermediate voltage in power
stations. Never for any distance transmission.

i.e. NOT as part of the grid.


However the subject under discussion moved away from what everyone
would understand to be the grid, to local distribution. It was on the
subject of local distribution that I responded.


Sorry but local distribution at 11kv is still part of the grid. Arguably
even the 240v feed from the last mile substation is still part of the
grid.


The National Grid uses 132kV and above; the rest is owned by the Local
supply Company

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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 13:30:59 -0000, charles wrote:

In article , Andrew Mawson
wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
...


SNIP

How much of the route from the power station to the consumer is
redundant multi-circuit? At one point, typically, does it change over
to a given house only being fed by one set of wires, and if that line
develops a fault there is no backup circuit?

Is there a backup route as far as the final substation that transforms
to 11 kV or 400V, or is it higher up the chain?

I presume for maximum redundancy they try to use feeds from different
places rather than two sets of wires carried on the same pylons, in case
an accident takes out *all* the wires (both circuits).

I'm intrigued at the way house gets its electricity supply. There is
overhead mains on wooden poles (originally four separate wires, now a
single fat cable with four wires) and our house is the middle house of
two adjacent blocks of three houses. There is a single feed from the
wooden poles to the end of one block, and then four wires running along
the back of one block, overhead across the gap to the next block and
along there, with each house taking its feed from neutral and one of
the three phases - I think no two adjacent houses are on the same
phase. I suppose this is less unsightly than every one of the six
houses having its own single-phase feed from the street poles.




They always used to rotate phases down a street, so (say) phase 1 -
house 1, phase 2 - house 2, phase 3 - house 3, then phase 1 - street
lighting, phase 2 - house 4 and so on down the road to balance the load
between phases.


I think they stopped doing that many years ago. There's a small
development of 26 bungalows near us - built about 30 years ago - all on the
same phase.


I guess it doesn't matter how many on each, as long as it's even on each substation.

--
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On 23/03/17 13:38, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 20/03/17 16:05, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher explained :
Proof by assertion?

11KV round here. Underground. Watched em put in in

I can find no mention of 3.3KV grid ANYWHERE at all.

It's used primarily for motors and as an intermediate voltage in power
stations. Never for any distance transmission.

i.e. NOT as part of the grid.

However the subject under discussion moved away from what everyone
would understand to be the grid, to local distribution. It was on the
subject of local distribution that I responded.


Sorry but local distribution at 11kv is still part of the grid. Arguably
even the 240v feed from the last mile substation is still part of the
grid.


The National Grid uses 132kV and above; the rest is owned by the Local
supply Company

I didnt specify *National* Grid.


--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€

Vaclav Klaus
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 23/03/17 13:38, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 20/03/17 16:05, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher explained :
Proof by assertion?

11KV round here. Underground. Watched em put in in

I can find no mention of 3.3KV grid ANYWHERE at all.

It's used primarily for motors and as an intermediate voltage in
power stations. Never for any distance transmission.

i.e. NOT as part of the grid.

However the subject under discussion moved away from what everyone
would understand to be the grid, to local distribution. It was on the
subject of local distribution that I responded.


Sorry but local distribution at 11kv is still part of the grid.
Arguably even the 240v feed from the last mile substation is still
part of the grid.


The National Grid uses 132kV and above; the rest is owned by the Local
supply Company

I didnt specify *National* Grid.


what other kind of "Grid " is there.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 13:38:31 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:



The National Grid uses 132kV and above; the rest is owned by the Local
supply Company

A lot of the 132kV infrastructure owned by the old state owned CEGB
when it was operated as part of the bulk transfer system which is what
most people mean by National Grid was transferred to the area boards
in England and Wales. This came about after much of it had been
superceded by the later 275kV and 400kV so the 132kV network which was
the original National Grid from the 1930's was reclassified as
distribution and so fell into the local boards remit.
Quite a long time ago now back in the 1970's I think it was but
because the original National Grid with its 132kV got so well known
even today a lot of people don't know the transfer took place make
the assumption that 132kV = National Grid. .
I think National Grid now only have 132kV lines in Scotland but with
all the changes since privatization they may have acquired some again
in England and Wales, the present private operators who succeeded the
boards such as Western Power Distribution are still adding to their
132kV infrastructure sometimes replacing 33kV to increase capacity or
as a way to link in a solar or wind farm over a reasonable distance,
and as I pointed out elsewhere in the thread these 132kV lines are
often on single wooden poles. They are easily recognisable as the
large insulators are arranged in a Trident shape to get the conductor
separation.
http://www.freedom-group.co.uk/wp-co...ent-5-Copy.jpg

G.Harman


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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On 23/03/17 22:00, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 23/03/17 13:38, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 20/03/17 16:05, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher explained :
Proof by assertion?

11KV round here. Underground. Watched em put in in

I can find no mention of 3.3KV grid ANYWHERE at all.

It's used primarily for motors and as an intermediate voltage in
power stations. Never for any distance transmission.

i.e. NOT as part of the grid.

However the subject under discussion moved away from what everyone
would understand to be the grid, to local distribution. It was on the
subject of local distribution that I responded.

Sorry but local distribution at 11kv is still part of the grid.
Arguably even the 240v feed from the last mile substation is still
part of the grid.

The National Grid uses 132kV and above; the rest is owned by the Local
supply Company

I didnt specify *National* Grid.


what other kind of "Grid " is there.

Oh dear.

Why dont you google it?



--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels



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Default How much current flows through pylons?

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/03/17 22:00, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 23/03/17 13:38, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 20/03/17 16:05, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher explained :
Proof by assertion?

11KV round here. Underground. Watched em put in in

I can find no mention of 3.3KV grid ANYWHERE at all.

It's used primarily for motors and as an intermediate voltage in
power stations. Never for any distance transmission.

i.e. NOT as part of the grid.

However the subject under discussion moved away from what everyone
would understand to be the grid, to local distribution. It was on
the subject of local distribution that I responded.

Sorry but local distribution at 11kv is still part of the grid.
Arguably even the 240v feed from the last mile substation is still
part of the grid.

The National Grid uses 132kV and above; the rest is owned by the Local
supply Company

I didnt specify *National* Grid.


what other kind of "Grid " is there.

Oh dear.


Why dont you google it?


I worked, albeit 50 year ago, in the electricity supply industry,

--
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

In article , damduck-
scribeth thus
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 13:38:31 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:



The National Grid uses 132kV and above; the rest is owned by the Local
supply Company

A lot of the 132kV infrastructure owned by the old state owned CEGB
when it was operated as part of the bulk transfer system which is what
most people mean by National Grid was transferred to the area boards
in England and Wales. This came about after much of it had been
superceded by the later 275kV and 400kV so the 132kV network which was
the original National Grid from the 1930's was reclassified as
distribution and so fell into the local boards remit.
Quite a long time ago now back in the 1970's I think it was but
because the original National Grid with its 132kV got so well known
even today a lot of people don't know the transfer took place make
the assumption that 132kV = National Grid. .
I think National Grid now only have 132kV lines in Scotland but with
all the changes since privatization they may have acquired some again
in England and Wales, the present private operators who succeeded the
boards such as Western Power Distribution are still adding to their
132kV infrastructure sometimes replacing 33kV to increase capacity or
as a way to link in a solar or wind farm over a reasonable distance,
and as I pointed out elsewhere in the thread these 132kV lines are
often on single wooden poles. They are easily recognisable as the
large insulators are arranged in a Trident shape to get the conductor
separation.


http://www.freedom-group.co.uk/wp-co...ry-Green-Reed-
Trident-5-Copy.jpg

G.Harman



Ah! thought they were some odd 66 kV thing, some here near Royston
Herts..

https://goo.gl/maps/B9j2qM3EqYQ2
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

1133
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 07:07:25 -0700, laluyaduvansi705 wrote:

1133


?

Hopefully none unless there's a fault!

--
TOJ.


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Default How much current flows through pylons?

The 11kv ring is rarely closed but run with a deliberate open circuit to limit fault levels.thus points are fed from one end or the other. If a section suffers damage or requires operational intervention it can be switched out and the remainder of the system can continue to operate by selective switching.
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In article , Cynic
wrote:
The 11kv ring is rarely closed but run with a deliberate open circuit to
limit fault levels.thus points are fed from one end or the other. If a
section suffers damage or requires operational intervention it can be
switched out and the remainder of the system can continue to operate by
selective switching.


when I worked for SESEB in the early 1960s, 11kV was a real ring

--
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On 15/08/18 16:46, charles wrote:
In article , Cynic
wrote:
The 11kv ring is rarely closed but run with a deliberate open circuit to
limit fault levels.thus points are fed from one end or the other. If a
section suffers damage or requires operational intervention it can be
switched out and the remainder of the system can continue to operate by
selective switching.


when I worked for SESEB in the early 1960s, 11kV was a real ring

11KV here is a real ring


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guns, why should we let them have ideas?

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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:21:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

11KV here is a real ring


Not here. The distribution looks like a collection of rings but
strategically placed air switches that would create actual rings, if
closed, are left open. When there is a fault these (NO or NC)
switches can be opened/closed to isolate the fault and get customers
on unaffected sections of line back on supply quickly. Once the fault
has been cleared and the affected line re-energised there might be a
short period of time when true rings exist but only until the NO
switches are opened.

There are also implications with rings and auto-reclosers. If one
auto-recloser trips, it's "dead" side will still be live via the
auto-recloser feeding the other end of the ring. Which knocks onto to
loading, with one auto-recloser tripped all the load on the (ex) ring
is fed via that single line, re-closer and overload protection.

Current in pylons, hopefully none. In the cables between them, I've
watched an ammeter monitoring one of the 125 kV lines feeding
Cardiff. The needle was gently waving by about 10 A centred on 100 A
ish. That's only 12.5 MW. I think the 500 kV lines can carry a GW or
more, thats 2000 A +.

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Cheers
Dave.



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Or its struck by lightning as I had the misfortune to be standing near one
when it was. It was bleedin loud.
No damage done though. I think this is one reason they have that extra
cable across the top.
However I think this post must have been from a bot.
Brian

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"The Other John" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 07:07:25 -0700, laluyaduvansi705 wrote:

1133


?

Hopefully none unless there's a fault!

--
TOJ.



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