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Old March 20th 17, 04:05 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

The Natural Philosopher explained :
Proof by assertion?

11KV round here. Underground. Watched em put in in

I can find no mention of 3.3KV grid ANYWHERE at all.

It's used primarily for motors and as an intermediate voltage in power
stations. Never for any distance transmission.

i.e. NOT as part of the grid.


However the subject under discussion moved away from what everyone
would understand to be the grid, to local distribution. It was on the
subject of local distribution that I responded.

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Old March 20th 17, 07:21 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default How much current flows through pylons?



"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
news
The Natural Philosopher explained on 20/03/2017 :
Not only is 3.3kV used in the UK, but 2kV, 3.5kV and 6.6kV are also
used.


No. Were used. Once. Not any more.


Were used, suggests were installed. Once installed they are there until
replaced - which rather suggests I was correct in the matter of the 3.3Kv,


Not with your 'more likely'. In fact it is much more likely that
it is 11KV and not 3.3KV.

though wrong in regards to what they installed on wooden poles.


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Old March 20th 17, 09:22 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On 20/03/17 16:05, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher explained :
Proof by assertion?

11KV round here. Underground. Watched em put in in

I can find no mention of 3.3KV grid ANYWHERE at all.

It's used primarily for motors and as an intermediate voltage in power
stations. Never for any distance transmission.

i.e. NOT as part of the grid.


However the subject under discussion moved away from what everyone would
understand to be the grid, to local distribution. It was on the subject
of local distribution that I responded.


Sorry but local distribution at 11kv is still part of the grid. Arguably
even the 240v feed from the last mile substation is still part of the grid.


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.
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Old March 20th 17, 11:02 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:37:59 -0000, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Even with the regulator our voltage wangs about all over the shop

when
the back up 11 kV is being used. Rises to above 255 at night and

drops
to 225 ish during the day. 240 to 245 is the normal range.


Did you get anywhere with your complaint? I get 241V to 256V, which I
consider very poor since 230V is supposed to be the normal.


They just moved the nominal voltage and tweaked the % +/- to pretty
much maintain the same "legal" range. Nothing if anything actually
changed. New supplies might aim for 230 more than 240.

It's enough to regularly make my UPS put an overvoltage warning light on
and step it down itself.


Its the UPS clicking that normally alerts me to the problem. B-)

When I phoned them, they sent someone out in 30 minutes and sounded
worried on the phone,


History: When we moved in we'd get through incandescant light bulbs
at about 1/month. Then I bought the UPS plugged it in and it went
straight into voltage reduction mode. Got out voltmeter, can't
remember what it was but close or over 253. Called the DNO, and there
was a knock on the door 2 hours later. Agreed my readings, peered at
pole transformer, made appointment for a few days later to adjust the
tappings. They came back adjusted the tapping as low as it would go
and we had something just over 240. Time passed and consumption rate
of incandescant light bulbs noticeably dropped.

yet when the electrician arrived and confirmed my voltage readings, he
said "within legal limits, nothing we can do, although if I was in
charge I'd step it down a level".


Didn't offer a voltage monitor? We've had one of those, twice, when
I've complained about the overnight voltage when the primary
substation is being fed from the 11 kV backup. Last time it happened
(up to 256 for several hours over night) they took quite a bit of
interest in the graphs I can produce from the logged UPS voltage
readings. There was a certain amount of head scratching and going to
look at the regulator and the tweak of the 11 kV feed at Little
Selkeld. Got a call from some one in an office and ened up emailing
daily plots to him.

Of course with the local primary on the main 33 kV feed there isn't a
problem and the voltage is very stable at 240 - 245. The voltage
monitor was in for a few days after the feed switched back and the
follow up call said yes it was high during the 33 kV maintenance
period but there wasn't a lot they could do. I've not been aware of
any over voltage since then, which either means the primary hasn't
been on the back up or it has and they've made some adjustments.

Each time I've reported over voltage they've had a man at the door
within hours. Same with outages and speed of supply restoration,
either by rerouting or repairs. We have been off supply for 36 hours
but there had been an ice storm that brought down the lines in
multiple places and the shock of the lines breaking snapped half a
dozen or so poles. One of which carried one of the air switches in
"our" section so wasn't just a rip the stump out, plant a new pole
and restring the lines. But they worked from dawn to dusk for a
couple to days to replace it.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Old March 20th 17, 11:02 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:07:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 20/03/17 13:35, The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:23:21 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

The Natural Philosopher explained on 20/03/2017 :
Not only is 3.3kV used in the UK, but 2kV, 3.5kV and 6.6kV are also used.

No. Were used. Once. Not any more.

Were used, suggests were installed. Once installed they are there until
replaced - which rather suggests I was correct in the matter of the
3.3Kv, though wrong in regards to what they installed on wooden poles.


Harry you'd be better off arguing with a three week old dead badger, you'd get a
more coherent and accurate reply on subjects like this than from TNP. 3.3kV
has IME always been an underground voltage in the UK, with indoor switchgear.


Proof by assertion?


Better than your profuse verbal ******** as standard

11KV round here. Underground. Watched em put in in


600kV 400kV 275kV 66kV, 33kV 11kV 3.3kV 415v around here there and everywhere in
the UK. Involved in the design, operation and maintenance. Watched them put it
in over many decades not as an uniformed casual observer from behind a barrier.
No doubt some of those voltage levels will confuse the **** out of you. Feel
free to behave like demented chicken.

I can find no mention of 3.3KV grid ANYWHERE at all.


That's because you somehow think everything is on the internet. It's not.

It's used primarily for motors and as an intermediate voltage in power
stations. Never for any distance transmission.


No one said it was used for 'distance transmission' whatever the **** that
means. It's a distribution voltage used for short distance lightly loaded
undergrounds at many locations in the UK.

i.e. NOT as part of the grid.


If you maintain 11kV is 'part of the grid' as you have just done in a reply to
Harry B elsewhere then the 3.3kV network running a mile from the 33kV/11kV/3.3kV
substation to a brick bunker with a transformer, a bit of switchgear and fusing
is also 'part of the grid' that you have never seen nor heard of this
configuration is no real surprise as it's not on the internet.



--


  #66   Report Post  
Old March 21st 17, 12:20 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 23:02:18 -0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:37:59 -0000, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Even with the regulator our voltage wangs about all over the shop

when
the back up 11 kV is being used. Rises to above 255 at night and

drops
to 225 ish during the day. 240 to 245 is the normal range.


Did you get anywhere with your complaint? I get 241V to 256V, which I
consider very poor since 230V is supposed to be the normal.


They just moved the nominal voltage and tweaked the % +/- to pretty
much maintain the same "legal" range. Nothing if anything actually
changed. New supplies might aim for 230 more than 240.


They recently replaced the substation across the road from me, which moved the voltage further from 230 (higher).

Not sure why they replaced it. It doesn't look bigger, and the old one didn't look that old.

It's enough to regularly make my UPS put an overvoltage warning light on
and step it down itself.


Its the UPS clicking that normally alerts me to the problem. B-)


Same here, and before I got LED lighting everywhere, the CFL and incandescent lights changed brightness a little. I have the lighting circuits connected to it aswell, to increase the lifespan of the bulbs.

When I phoned them, they sent someone out in 30 minutes and sounded
worried on the phone,


History: When we moved in we'd get through incandescant light bulbs
at about 1/month. Then I bought the UPS plugged it in and it went
straight into voltage reduction mode. Got out voltmeter, can't
remember what it was but close or over 253. Called the DNO, and there
was a knock on the door 2 hours later. Agreed my readings, peered at
pole transformer, made appointment for a few days later to adjust the
tappings. They came back adjusted the tapping as low as it would go
and we had something just over 240. Time passed and consumption rate
of incandescant light bulbs noticeably dropped.


Sounds like you have a more sensible electrician than I do.

yet when the electrician arrived and confirmed my voltage readings, he
said "within legal limits, nothing we can do, although if I was in
charge I'd step it down a level".


Didn't offer a voltage monitor?


I gave him a log of my voltages over a week, which he believed as his meter agreed with mine.

We've had one of those, twice, when
I've complained about the overnight voltage when the primary
substation is being fed from the 11 kV backup. Last time it happened
(up to 256 for several hours over night) they took quite a bit of
interest in the graphs I can produce from the logged UPS voltage
readings. There was a certain amount of head scratching and going to
look at the regulator and the tweak of the 11 kV feed at Little
Selkeld. Got a call from some one in an office and ened up emailing
daily plots to him.

Of course with the local primary on the main 33 kV feed there isn't a
problem and the voltage is very stable at 240 - 245. The voltage
monitor was in for a few days after the feed switched back and the
follow up call said yes it was high during the 33 kV maintenance
period but there wasn't a lot they could do. I've not been aware of
any over voltage since then, which either means the primary hasn't
been on the back up or it has and they've made some adjustments.

Each time I've reported over voltage they've had a man at the door
within hours. Same with outages and speed of supply restoration,
either by rerouting or repairs. We have been off supply for 36 hours
but there had been an ice storm that brought down the lines in
multiple places and the shock of the lines breaking snapped half a
dozen or so poles. One of which carried one of the air switches in
"our" section so wasn't just a rip the stump out, plant a new pole
and restring the lines. But they worked from dawn to dusk for a
couple to days to replace it.


Ice storm? Where are you, the Outer Hebrides?

--
Local police hunting the "knitting needle nutter", who has stabbed six people in the last 48 hours, believe the attacker could be following some kind of pattern.
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Old March 21st 17, 12:41 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 11:05:01 PM UTC+11, NY wrote:
"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 3/18/2017 11:18 AM, wrote wrote:
Despite extensive googling, there seems to be nothing that tells me how
much
current flows along wires on a national grid pylon. They only list
voltages.
Anybody know?


A 400 kV National Grid circuit may carry 1 kA in each of its three phases,
thus transmitting a power of 700 MW.
A 132 kV distribution circuit may carry 300 A in each of its three phases,
thus transmitting a power of 70 MW.
An 11 kV distribution circuit may carry 150 A in each of its three phases,
thus transmitting a power of 3 MW.
A 400 V final distribution circuit may carry 200 A in each of its three
phases, thus transmitting a power of 150 kW.


200A per phase at 400V (240V phase-to-neutral) doesn't sound very high. We
have a 60 A "company fuse" and I presume our neighbours do too. With an
electric fire (3 KW), an electric shower (maybe 8 kW) and an electric oven
and hob (maybe 6 KW), you'd be getting towards that limit but still
remaining legal. Now imagine lots of people roundabout doing that. It
doesn't take many houses to run up 200 A - or a total of 600 A across all
three phases. How many houses are typically fed from a single feed from the
substation or 11 kV-to-400V pole-mounted transformer? What is the average
current that is assumed per house when sizing up the number of houses that
can be fed from one substation circuit? I presume it not the full 60A of the
company fuse rating.

And Supergrid pylons (400 and 275 kV) are normally double circuit, aren't
they? Three wires on each side of the "tree".


How much of the route from the power station to the consumer is redundant
multi-circuit? At one point, typically, does it change over to a given house
only being fed by one set of wires, and if that line develops a fault there
is no backup circuit?

Is there a backup route as far as the final substation that transforms to 11
kV or 400V, or is it higher up the chain?

I presume for maximum redundancy they try to use feeds from different places
rather than two sets of wires carried on the same pylons, in case an
accident takes out *all* the wires (both circuits).

I'm intrigued at the way house gets its electricity supply. There is
overhead mains on wooden poles (originally four separate wires, now a single
fat cable with four wires) and our house is the middle house of two adjacent
blocks of three houses. There is a single feed from the wooden poles to the
end of one block, and then four wires running along the back of one block,
overhead across the gap to the next block and along there, with each house
taking its feed from neutral and one of the three phases - I think no two
adjacent houses are on the same phase. I suppose this is less unsightly than
every one of the six houses having its own single-phase feed from the street
poles.

"400V (240V phase-to-neutral)" is not right,
it is 415V (240V phase to neutral)
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Old March 21st 17, 04:37 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the SociopathicAttention Whore

The Peeler wrote:
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:34:04 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

I thought it sounded a little ambiguous when I wrote it.


Rest assured that you ALWAYS sound like a complete idiot, whenever you
"write" something, Birdbrain!

I have been watching this discussion and only one poster has said
nothing of any consequence and has added nothing to the discussion.(I
wonder who?)
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Old March 21st 17, 04:57 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default How much current flows through pylons?

bm wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

Ahhhhh, Wodney is here with all the answers.


He is not far off,somewhere on this page is a rough guide to insulator
disks for various voltages.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insula...ity%29#History
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Old March 21st 17, 04:59 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the SociopathicAttention Whore

The Peeler wrote:
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:32:06 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:


I thought


There's the snag again, Birdbrain!

Still not seeing any sensible input.


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