I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
have a socket there as well.

I have bought a couple of double phono sockets from nexxia
(http://www.nexxia.co.uk/) and linked them up with telephone wire
(which was what I had to hand). Not good. There's a hum, and
although reasonably loud music is worth listening to, speech is very
distorted.

Now I'm sure there are many things I have done wrong: using telephone
wire; maybe using solder (though the sockets have solder tags); I
should also mention that the cables connect through a telephone
junction box. But I can't find any cable anywhere specified for this
purpose (as opposed to speaker cable). What should I use (looking for
something cheap, that I can buy by the metre, or in a 10 or 25m reel,
either over the net or on the UK high street)? Also advice about a
junction box if that's likely to make a difference.

Many thanks in advance,

James

James wrote on Sunday (01/02/2004) :
I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
have a socket there as well.

You will need to use screened audio type cable for this, with the
screen connected to the outer of the plugs, two cable runs for stereo.
You might be lucky and be able to get hold of some figure of 8 type
stereo cable.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

On 1 Feb 2004 12:52:03 -0800, (James) wrote:

I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
have a socket there as well.

I have bought a couple of double phono sockets from nexxia
(http://www.nexxia.co.uk/) and linked them up with telephone wire
(which was what I had to hand). Not good. There's a hum, and
although reasonably loud music is worth listening to, speech is very
distorted.

Now I'm sure there are many things I have done wrong: using telephone
wire; maybe using solder (though the sockets have solder tags); I
should also mention that the cables connect through a telephone
junction box. But I can't find any cable anywhere specified for this
purpose (as opposed to speaker cable). What should I use (looking for
something cheap, that I can buy by the metre, or in a 10 or 25m reel,
either over the net or on the UK high street)? Also advice about a
junction box if that's likely to make a difference.

Try www.maplins.co.uk and look for part no. N08AP.


SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

Lurch wrote:

On 1 Feb 2004 12:52:03 -0800, (James) wrote:

I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
have a socket there as well.

I have bought a couple of double phono sockets from nexxia
(http://www.nexxia.co.uk/) and linked them up with telephone wire
(which was what I had to hand). Not good. There's a hum, and
although reasonably loud music is worth listening to, speech is very
distorted.

Now I'm sure there are many things I have done wrong: using telephone
wire; maybe using solder (though the sockets have solder tags); I
should also mention that the cables connect through a telephone
junction box. But I can't find any cable anywhere specified for this
purpose (as opposed to speaker cable). What should I use (looking for
something cheap, that I can buy by the metre, or in a 10 or 25m reel,
either over the net or on the UK high street)? Also advice about a
junction box if that's likely to make a difference.

Try www.maplins.co.uk and look for part no. N08AP.

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

In my experience the quality of the interconnections has almost as much
effect on the finished sound as does the quality of the speakers. I
strongly suggest that you avoid at all cost anything cheap to link these
devices.

Do I understand that you are feeding the audio o/p from PC and DAB unit to
your amp? Then spend LOTS of money on the cables and connectors (consider
gold plated - they're not that dear) and do solder the cables. I expect
you'll only want to do this only once!

Unfortunately I can't remember the best practice for audio cable screen
connections to avoid earth loops - is it only connect the screen at one of
the devices? Doubtless someone else will advise.

Oh and it's www.MAPLIN.co.uk (no 'S')

What's the story with the telephone junction box?


BOL Richard

Connect the screen at both ends, use a reasonably heavy twin screened
figure-of-eight able, preferabley the "oxygen free copper" stuff.
As Richard has already said, don't try to do the cabling too cheap - you'll
end up doing it twice.

Alan.

"Richard Savage" wrote in message
...


Lurch wrote:

On 1 Feb 2004 12:52:03 -0800, (James) wrote:

I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
have a socket there as well.

I have bought a couple of double phono sockets from nexxia
(http://www.nexxia.co.uk/) and linked them up with telephone wire
(which was what I had to hand). Not good. There's a hum, and
although reasonably loud music is worth listening to, speech is very
distorted.

Now I'm sure there are many things I have done wrong: using telephone
wire; maybe using solder (though the sockets have solder tags); I
should also mention that the cables connect through a telephone
junction box. But I can't find any cable anywhere specified for this
purpose (as opposed to speaker cable). What should I use (looking for
something cheap, that I can buy by the metre, or in a 10 or 25m reel,
either over the net or on the UK high street)? Also advice about a
junction box if that's likely to make a difference.

Try www.maplins.co.uk and look for part no. N08AP.

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

In my experience the quality of the interconnections has almost as much
effect on the finished sound as does the quality of the speakers. I
strongly suggest that you avoid at all cost anything cheap to link these
devices.

Do I understand that you are feeding the audio o/p from PC and DAB unit to
your amp? Then spend LOTS of money on the cables and connectors (consider
gold plated - they're not that dear) and do solder the cables. I expect
you'll only want to do this only once!

Unfortunately I can't remember the best practice for audio cable screen
connections to avoid earth loops - is it only connect the screen at one of
the devices? Doubtless someone else will advise.

Oh and it's www.MAPLIN.co.uk (no 'S')

What's the story with the telephone junction box?


BOL Richard

In message , Richard Savage
writes


Lurch wrote:

On 1 Feb 2004 12:52:03 -0800, (James) wrote:

I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
have a socket there as well.

I have bought a couple of double phono sockets from nexxia
(http://www.nexxia.co.uk/) and linked them up with telephone wire
(which was what I had to hand). Not good. There's a hum, and
although reasonably loud music is worth listening to, speech is very
distorted.

Now I'm sure there are many things I have done wrong: using telephone
wire; maybe using solder (though the sockets have solder tags); I
should also mention that the cables connect through a telephone
junction box. But I can't find any cable anywhere specified for this
purpose (as opposed to speaker cable). What should I use (looking for
something cheap, that I can buy by the metre, or in a 10 or 25m reel,
either over the net or on the UK high street)? Also advice about a
junction box if that's likely to make a difference.

Try www.maplins.co.uk and look for part no. N08AP.

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

Oh and it's www.MAPLIN.co.uk (no 'S')

Or rather google CPC - quite a bit cheaper normally
--
geoff

In article ,
James wrote:
Now I'm sure there are many things I have done wrong: using telephone
wire; maybe using solder (though the sockets have solder tags); I
should also mention that the cables connect through a telephone
junction box. But I can't find any cable anywhere specified for this
purpose (as opposed to speaker cable). What should I use (looking for
something cheap, that I can buy by the metre, or in a 10 or 25m reel,
either over the net or on the UK high street)? Also advice about a
junction box if that's likely to make a difference.

Places like Maplin sell audio co-ax designed for this purpose by the meter
or drum - the same stuff as a phono lead is made of. However, when
connecting two or more separate systems together, there's a possibility of
an earth loop which will cause hum if they are all earthed through the
mains plug, as your computer almost certainly is.

But the wrong cable shouldn't make the sound distorted - it's only likely
to add hum. It could be that connecting the inputs of the computer and
Hi-Fi together is via long lengths of wire is causing some instability -
just a guess. Is it distorted on both, if you connect them individually?

The 'correct' way to do this job is with a distribution amplifier - same
idea as you use with a TV aerial - but I'm not sure if domestic types are
available at a reasonable price, they're more a pro thing at pro prices.

Unbalanced circuits - this is what you have - can work well over
reasonable distances. I've got my STB in the front room fed to the kitchen
TV via a SCART lead over 15 metres long, and it works well.

--
*A cubicle is just a padded cell without a door.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In my experience the quality of the interconnections has almost as much
effect on the finished sound as does the quality of the speakers. I
strongly suggest that you avoid at all cost anything cheap to link these
devices.

I was going to point this out but going on the basis the OP seemed
quite happy with 'reasonably loud music' on telephone cable, I took it
he wasn't an audiophile as he would already know about quality OFC,
gold plated etc interconnects if he was. And, quality aint cheap, but
cheap was mentioned in the OP.

Do I understand that you are feeding the audio o/p from PC and DAB unit to
your amp? Then spend LOTS of money on the cables and connectors (consider
gold plated - they're not that dear) and do solder the cables. I expect
you'll only want to do this only once!

Unfortunately I can't remember the best practice for audio cable screen
connections to avoid earth loops - is it only connect the screen at one of
the devices? Doubtless someone else will advise.

Oh and it's www.MAPLIN.co.uk (no 'S')

Ooops, I'll try again then. www.maplin.co.uk look this time for part
no. XS39N. _Better quality!_

What's the story with the telephone junction box?




SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

"James" wrote
| I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
| the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
| is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
| have a socket there as well.
| I have bought a couple of double phono sockets from nexxia
| (http://www.nexxia.co.uk/) and linked them up with telephone wire
| (which was what I had to hand). Not good. There's a hum, and
| although reasonably loud music is worth listening to, speech is very
| distorted.
| Now I'm sure there are many things I have done wrong: using telephone
| wire; maybe using solder (though the sockets have solder tags); I
| should also mention that the cables connect through a telephone
| junction box.

Hopefully one not used for telephone lines!

Actually, you can shove line-level audio down phone cable quite well
provided that it's twisted-pair and you get the pairs right. You may also
have some 'dry joints', so practice your soldering. Hum is usually caused by
poor earthing and screening; distortion may be a sign of a bad joint.

| But I can't find any cable anywhere specified for this
| purpose (as opposed to speaker cable). What should I use (looking
| for something cheap, that I can buy by the metre, or in a 10 or 25m
| reel, either over the net or on the UK high street)? Also advice
| about a junction box if that's likely to make a difference.

Maplin order code XR21X at 49p/m or XS94C at 59p/m are figure-8 screened
audio cable suitable for making audio leads. Per metre or 100m reel. (Those
are last years prices, check in shops or www.maplin.co.uk ) If you want to
join two phono leads end-end QT64U is a stereo phono-phono coupler. It's not
audiophile stuff but you're only using it for DAB :-)

Maplin XS39N at £3.49/m is rather heftier but will need heftier plugs too.

Owain

Or rather google CPC - quite a bit cheaper normally

If you happen to have an account with them that is.


SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

In message , Lurch
writes
Or rather google CPC - quite a bit cheaper normally

If you happen to have an account with them that is.

Although I do, I never thought it was a pre-requisite for ordering from
them. I'm sure that you do for the other link - Farnell (CPC's now
parent company)
--
geoff

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
.uk...
You might be lucky and be able to get hold of some figure of 8 type
stereo cable.

rs components, possibly -
367-561 25m £9.306

In article ,
Richard Savage wrote:
In my experience the quality of the interconnections has almost as much
effect on the finished sound as does the quality of the speakers.

You're a bit lacking in experience, then.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
Owain wrote:
Hopefully one not used for telephone lines!

Actually, you can shove line-level audio down phone cable quite well
provided that it's twisted-pair and you get the pairs right.

You can with video as well. ;-)

Ordinary telephone pair was used for distributing the signal to radio
transmitters for years before digital came along, and a carefully
equalised line was capable of giving excellent results over many, many
miles.

I use telephone cable in my place to distribute audio - I've got 10
circuits in one cable, non of them screened, and the results are
excellent. But it's a balanced system.

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In message , Ray
writes

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
o.uk...
You might be lucky and be able to get hold of some figure of 8 type
stereo cable.

rs components, possibly -
367-561 25m £9.306

It's only idiots like me who can't be arsed to look further who are
willing to pay RS prices on something like that
--
geoff

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:10:55 +0000, Richard Savage
wrote:

snip

In my experience the quality of the interconnections has almost as much
effect on the finished sound as does the quality of the speakers. I
strongly suggest that you avoid at all cost anything cheap to link these
devices.

LOL ... yes, you want to avoid anything that resembles two paper clips
joined by wet string, but otherwise a cable is a cable is a cable.
Those who would tell you otherwise are either (a) trying to con you
into purchasing the latest 0.000000000001% oxygen with added snake-oil
connects, or (b) have already been conned by (a) and want to disguise
their embarrasment. Recording studios buy exactly the kind of generic
screened cable and connectors available from RS, Maplin, etc., and get
a spotty studio junior to make up cables - anyone with even a passing
acquintance with a soldering iron can do the same.

Julian

--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk

Richard Savage wrote:


Lurch wrote:


On 1 Feb 2004 12:52:03 -0800, (James) wrote:


I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
have a socket there as well.

I have bought a couple of double phono sockets from nexxia
(http://www.nexxia.co.uk/) and linked them up with telephone wire
(which was what I had to hand). Not good. There's a hum, and
although reasonably loud music is worth listening to, speech is very
distorted.

Now I'm sure there are many things I have done wrong: using telephone
wire; maybe using solder (though the sockets have solder tags); I
should also mention that the cables connect through a telephone
junction box. But I can't find any cable anywhere specified for this
purpose (as opposed to speaker cable). What should I use (looking for
something cheap, that I can buy by the metre, or in a 10 or 25m reel,
either over the net or on the UK high street)? Also advice about a
junction box if that's likely to make a difference.


Try www.maplins.co.uk and look for part no. N08AP.

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.


In my experience the quality of the interconnections has almost as much
effect on the finished sound as does the quality of the speakers. I
strongly suggest that you avoid at all cost anything cheap to link these
devices.


My 15 years desinging auidio equipment and testing it to destruction
with avery instrument and several sets ofgolden ears shows me that this
is utter ********.

UNLESS you are passing bery high currents, ort have corrision, the
connector quality is completely irrelevant and makes no difference at
small signal level.

With loudspeakers, all that matter is a low resistance.

Everything else is ********.

Gold is good because it doesn't corrode, but then neither does quality
nickel.



Do I understand that you are feeding the audio o/p from PC and DAB unit to
your amp? Then spend LOTS of money on the cables and connectors (consider
gold plated - they're not that dear) and do solder the cables. I expect
you'll only want to do this only once!


Sepned fuxk aoll on anything.

You need relatively decent screened cable, and the conncetor are fairly
unipmporatnt.
Whjat IIS important is making sure the levels are matched. No connector
will give yu oher than extremely low level distortion - that you need a
few grand of test gear to detect - if yo have dostortion, ather than
treble loss, you have a misrmatch or a short somewheere.

Hum is eithe lack of screening, running the cable through a magnetuic
filed, or an earth loop.



Unfortunately I can't remember the best practice for audio cable screen
connections to avoid earth loops - is it only connect the screen at one of
the devices? Doubtless someone else will advise.


More or less

However it can't be done with a simple co ax because you need a path fo
the return current.

You use a balancing transformer and a two wire plus screen to get bets
practice.



Oh and it's www.MAPLIN.co.uk (no 'S')

What's the story with the telephone junction box?


BOL Richard

"geoff" wrote in message
...
It's only idiots like me who can't be arsed to look further who are
willing to pay RS prices on something like that

O well, if the company doesn't pay, then yea

Richard Savage wrote in message ...

Do I understand that you are feeding the audio o/p from PC and DAB unit to
your amp? Then spend LOTS of money on the cables and connectors (consider
gold plated - they're not that dear) and do solder the cables. I expect
you'll only want to do this only once!

Have you heard the quality of UK DAB broadcasts? You don't need to
spend much!

However, as the original poster has probably figured out already, he
does need screened cable.

Unfortunately I can't remember the best practice for audio cable screen
connections to avoid earth loops - is it only connect the screen at one of
the devices?

Usually - it depends. Which end you choose to connect can make a
difference. Lots of fun!


UK wiring regulations mean you need to keep the audio cables at least
5cm away from any mains wiring.

Cheers,
David.

In article ,
David Robinson wrote:
Then spend LOTS of money on the cables and connectors (consider
gold plated - they're not that dear) and do solder the cables. I
expect you'll only want to do this only once!

Have you heard the quality of UK DAB broadcasts? You don't need to
spend much!

R3 & 4 are still ok. But even at reduced bitrate, the frequency response
isn't affected. And frequency response is the only likely thing to be
affected by the use of the wrong cable - it's unlikely to cause any other
forms of distortion. Driving speakers with long cables is a different
matter - some poorly designed amps can become unstable with the load this
may present.

--
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Robinson wrote:
Then spend LOTS of money on the cables and connectors (consider
gold plated - they're not that dear) and do solder the cables. I
expect you'll only want to do this only once!

Have you heard the quality of UK DAB broadcasts? You don't need to
spend much!

R3 & 4 are still ok. But even at reduced bitrate, the frequency
response
isn't affected. And frequency response is the only likely thing to be
affected by the use of the wrong cable - it's unlikely to cause any
other
forms of distortion. Driving speakers with long cables is a different
matter - some poorly designed amps can become unstable with the load
this
may present.

--
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Yes, but if you're using Naim amps, you'll probably use Naim cables too,
won't you?

In article ,
Neil Jones wrote:
Yes, but if you're using Naim amps, you'll probably use Naim cables too,
won't you?

Yup - you've got more money than sense. ;-)

--
*No radio - Already stolen.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Alan Deane wrote on Sunday (01/02/2004) :
Connect the screen at both ends, use a reasonably heavy twin screened
figure-of-eight able, preferabley the "oxygen free copper" stuff.
As Richard has already said, don't try to do the cabling too cheap - you'll
end up doing it twice.

OFC = Snake oil along with the 'antenna boosters' for mobile phones.

Any reasonable screened copper cable is perfectly adequate for this
application. Gold plated connectors look good and do prevent corrosion,
but then so does perfectly ordinary cheap nickel plating.

Connecting the screen at both ends should not cause a ground loop
problem, if the ground is isolated at both ends. If there were a
problem, it is usual to isolate the ground at the farthest end from the
input. This would mean cutting both ground connections where it
connects to your DAB system.

Hint:- Pulling the phono plugs a little way out disconnects the ground
connection first, thus enabling the ground loop problem to be easily
tested.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

Harry Bloomfield retched What cable to use for audio (phono) diy
connections? onto my recliner:

James wrote on Sunday (01/02/2004) :
I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in
the kitchen) and my amplifier (in the sitting room). The cable route
is about 10-15m and goes through the cellar, so it would be nice to
have a socket there as well.

You will need to use screened audio type cable for this, with the
screen connected to the outer of the plugs, two cable runs for stereo.
You might be lucky and be able to get hold of some figure of 8 type
stereo cable.


You might be lucky and Harry might FOAD!!!!!!! YAY!


--

Phil K.

http://philkyle2003.reachme.at/

Harry Bloomfield retched What cable to use for audio (phono) diy
connections? onto my recliner:

Alan Deane wrote on Sunday (01/02/2004) :
Connect the screen at both ends, use a reasonably heavy twin screened
figure-of-eight able, preferabley the "oxygen free copper" stuff.
As Richard has already said, don't try to do the cabling too cheap - you'll
end up doing it twice.

OFC = Snake oil along with the 'antenna boosters' for mobile phones.

Any reasonable screened copper cable is perfectly adequate for this
application. Gold plated connectors look good and do prevent corrosion,
but then so does perfectly ordinary cheap nickel plating.

Connecting the screen at both ends should not cause a ground loop
problem, if the ground is isolated at both ends. If there were a
problem, it is usual to isolate the ground at the farthest end from the
input. This would mean cutting both ground connections where it
connects to your DAB system.

Hint:- Pulling the phono plugs a little way out disconnects the ground
connection first, thus enabling the ground loop problem to be easily
tested.


Don't listen to this cowboy. He's been on TV you know. Watchdog.


--

Phil K.

http://philkyle2003.reachme.at/

(James) wrote in message . com...
I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in...

Many thanks for the replies. To sum up:

1. Now I understand that each phono plug socket has two solder tags.
Aha. Current set-up doesn't have the shielding connected at all.
Ooops.

2. My original intention was to use the junction box as a sort of
permanent patch panel. In a 3-socket pair connection I thought it
would save me soldering two wires to each tag in the middle socket.
My impression from all the posts is that this is probably not a good
idea?

3. Connecting the shielding at both ends or at one end. Some
divergent views.

Off to Maplins...

James

Dave Plowman wrote:

In article ,
Richard Savage wrote:
In my experience the quality of the interconnections has almost as much
effect on the finished sound as does the quality of the speakers.

You're a bit lacking in experience, then.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Is that a polite comment or one that I should take exception to? Maybe your
tag says it all? ;-)

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


My 15 years desinging auidio equipment and testing it to destruction
with avery instrument and several sets ofgolden ears shows me that this
is utter ********.



Forgive me for expressing my experience I stand, better still bow, before your
clearly superior knowledge and such humility in sharing it with us lesser
mortals.

All I know is that if I use the naff phono cables thrown in free with the hifi
components and replace them with some unreasonably expensive Cambridge Audio
items the reproduction is clearer and distortion doesn't appear until much
higher amplification.

Richard

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:29:57 +0000, Richard Savage
wrote:



The Natural Philosopher wrote:


My 15 years desinging auidio equipment and testing it to destruction
with avery instrument and several sets ofgolden ears shows me that this
is utter ********.



Forgive me for expressing my experience I stand, better still bow, before your
clearly superior knowledge and such humility in sharing it with us lesser
mortals.

All I know is that if I use the naff phono cables thrown in free with the hifi
components and replace them with some unreasonably expensive Cambridge Audio
items the reproduction is clearer and distortion doesn't appear until much
higher amplification.

The point is that although there *is* a potential difference between
as-supplied phono cables (see my earlier reference to paper-clips
connected by wet string) and competent cables, the latter can be made
up from commodity cable and connectors. "Esoteric" parts (gold-plated
connectors, "oxygen free" copper, etc.) offer no benefit compared to
generics (except to those selling them!). Putting it another way

- a £10 interconnect will potentially reduce or eliminate the
artifacts introduced by very poor "cheap" ones
- you can buy the parts to make an equivalent interconnect for less
than £5
- a £100 interconnect is no better than a £10 connector (£5 if you
D-I-Y)
- a £1000 interconnect is no better than a £10 connector (£5 if you
D-I-Y)
- etc.

Julian


--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk

"James" wrote
| 1. Now I understand that each phono plug socket has two solder tags.
| Aha. Current set-up doesn't have the shielding connected at all.
| Ooops.

That explains a lot :-0

| 2. My original intention was to use the junction box as a sort of
| permanent patch panel. In a 3-socket pair connection I thought it
| would save me soldering two wires to each tag in the middle socket.
| My impression from all the posts is that this is probably not a good
| idea?

You probably won't get two wires into each phono plug because the cables
will be bigger than the hole in the plug.

Remember I said you can join two stereo phono leads together end-end using a
Twin Phono Coupler QT64U? You could use two of Two Into One Adapter YW39N to
join each lead together and give you a plug to go into equipment in the
cellar.

Much better would be to use a Phono Socket 6-Way JH95D at 99p which is 6
phono sockets mounted on a paxolin panel. Common together the sockets in two
rows of 3 and mount the panel on (thinks: what did I use last time?) an old
flat tobacco tin. You will then have two rows (L and R) of commoned sockets
into which you can plug your kitchen lead, your lounge lead, and a lead to
your cellar equipment.

| 3. Connecting the shielding at both ends or at one end. Some
| divergent views.

If you use the Phono Socket 6 way to make your little patch panel and you
find after setting it up you want to disconnect the screen, you can just cut
the commoning link on the back of the panel which will be much easier than
remaking the cable connections. Much easier to reinstate the continuous
screening later if you need to, too.

Owain

Julian Fowler wrote:


The point is that although there *is* a potential difference between
as-supplied phono cables (see my earlier reference to paper-clips
connected by wet string) and competent cables, the latter can be made
up from commodity cable and connectors. "Esoteric" parts (gold-plated
connectors, "oxygen free" copper, etc.) offer no benefit compared to
generics (except to those selling them!). Putting it another way

- a £10 interconnect will potentially reduce or eliminate the
artifacts introduced by very poor "cheap" ones
- you can buy the parts to make an equivalent interconnect for less
than £5
- a £100 interconnect is no better than a £10 connector (£5 if you
D-I-Y)
- a £1000 interconnect is no better than a £10 connector (£5 if you
D-I-Y)
- etc.

Julian

--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk

Quiet agree, when I was rattling on about lots of money I was thinking in terms of
what is reasonably priced cable when considering performance over a few metres
becoming (very) expensive over the distances mentioned by the OP. WRT gold plated
connectors; some of the ones I've had from CPC seem to be made to a much higher
spec than their non-gold counterparts for little increase in price. I've no doubt
that what you say about the plating is true, but struggling with a (mechanically)
cheap connector may not make sense for the OP in the long run (no pun intended).

Regards Richard

Richard Savage wrote:


The Natural Philosopher wrote:


My 15 years desinging auidio equipment and testing it to destruction
with avery instrument and several sets ofgolden ears shows me that this
is utter ********.




Forgive me for expressing my experience I stand, better still bow, before your
clearly superior knowledge and such humility in sharing it with us lesser
mortals.

All I know is that if I use the naff phono cables thrown in free with the hifi
components and replace them with some unreasonably expensive Cambridge Audio
items the reproduction is clearer and distortion doesn't appear until much
higher amplification.


Then there is something fundamentally wrong with your kit, your ears, or
your brain.



Richard

Julian Fowler wrote:

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:29:57 +0000, Richard Savage
wrote:



The Natural Philosopher wrote:


My 15 years desinging auidio equipment and testing it to destruction
with avery instrument and several sets ofgolden ears shows me that this
is utter ********.



Forgive me for expressing my experience I stand, better still bow, before your
clearly superior knowledge and such humility in sharing it with us lesser
mortals.

All I know is that if I use the naff phono cables thrown in free with the hifi
components and replace them with some unreasonably expensive Cambridge Audio
items the reproduction is clearer and distortion doesn't appear until much
higher amplification.


The point is that although there *is* a potential difference between
as-supplied phono cables (see my earlier reference to paper-clips
connected by wet string) and competent cables, the latter can be made
up from commodity cable and connectors. "Esoteric" parts (gold-plated
connectors, "oxygen free" copper, etc.) offer no benefit compared to
generics (except to those selling them!). Putting it another way

- a £10 interconnect will potentially reduce or eliminate the
artifacts introduced by very poor "cheap" ones
- you can buy the parts to make an equivalent interconnect for less
than £5
- a £100 interconnect is no better than a £10 connector (£5 if you
D-I-Y)
- a £1000 interconnect is no better than a £10 connector (£5 if you
D-I-Y)
- etc.



Yes. The very old zinc plated stuiff if seriouslu oxidised can be a
problem - I have seen it act as a diode in practice.

Nickel plated stuff is fine for 'connect once' stuff.

Only if you have e.g. a really stupid connector for the current

rating - e.g. 5A down a phono plug, does something like gold plating

have a point, or if you are operating in a corrosive atmosphere, or

need to keep a perfect connection over many connects/disconnects

(e.g. relay contacts).


Sometimes its instructive to take apart kit with gold plated plugs ion
the outside, and see what has been used internally

Like super loudspeakers sold with 1/4" diameter mulitfilament rocket
cord, that have push on tags to zinc plated terminals on the bass unit,
that has .8mm braid connectors going to the voice coils. All fed via
about 30 feet of 16 swg enamelled copper wound around a distorting iron
cored crossover choke :-)





Julian

In article ,
Richard Savage wrote:
In my experience the quality of the interconnections has almost as
much effect on the finished sound as does the quality of the
speakers.

You're a bit lacking in experience, then.

Is that a polite comment or one that I should take exception to? Maybe
your tag says it all? ;-)

Heh heh. This is a practical group - about DIY. Esoteric notions that
adequate cables sound different is best kept for the loony audio groups.
You may know that there's a standing challenge with a large cash prize for
anyone who can tell the difference between adequately specified cables in
a properly conducted test - and so far, no one has succeeded. And adequate
cables for interconnects cost pennies per foot, not hundreds of dollars as
do some on the market.

--
*The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging!

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On 02/02/2004 The Natural Philosopher opined:-
Richard Savage wrote:


The Natural Philosopher wrote:


My 15 years desinging auidio equipment and testing it to destruction
with avery instrument and several sets ofgolden ears shows me that this
is utter ********.




Forgive me for expressing my experience I stand, better still bow, before
your
clearly superior knowledge and such humility in sharing it with us lesser
mortals.

All I know is that if I use the naff phono cables thrown in free with the
hifi
components and replace them with some unreasonably expensive Cambridge
Audio
items the reproduction is clearer and distortion doesn't appear until much
higher amplification.


Then there is something fundamentally wrong with your kit, your ears, or your
brain.



Richard



I'm certainly not an audiophile, but I once attended a demonstatration
where two identical systems had been set up alongside each other,
except one of the systems had OFC cable plus gold plated connectors.
The demonstration proceeded, where the demonstrator pointed out how
much better sounding the unit on the left was than the one on the right
fitted with the standard cables. All the audiophiles were nodding their
heads in approval with the person demonstrating the equipment and
smiling their agreement.

Towards the end the demonstrator span the equipment round to show off
the magic cable and connectors, failing to realise that the guy who had
assembled the units had fitted the OFC on the right hand units by
mistake.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

In article ,
Richard Savage wrote:
All I know is that if I use the naff phono cables thrown in free with
the hifi components and replace them with some unreasonably expensive
Cambridge Audio items the reproduction is clearer and distortion doesn't
appear until much higher amplification.

While it's possible to make an interconnect that would affect the
performance adversely, I'd say it would cost *more* than one which didn't.
And by the nature of an interconnect, it works *before* the amplification
you have control over, so how it can have an effect on distortion when you
change that level, I'm not sure.

Cable parameters consist of three things - resistance, inductance and
capacitance. If the output and input of two devices were a 'perfect' match
these might have some effect under some circumstances. But on domestic
gear, they aren't. You have a low impedance output feeding a high
impedance input. The amounts of the three cable parameters would have to
be *far* higher than any normal cable to have any audible effect on
performance.

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In message , anyone
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
It's only idiots like me who can't be arsed to look further who are
willing to pay RS prices on something like that

O well, if the company doesn't pay, then yea

I am the company

--
geoff

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 01:05:33 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman
wrote:

In article ,
Richard Savage wrote:
All I know is that if I use the naff phono cables thrown in free with
the hifi components and replace them with some unreasonably expensive
Cambridge Audio items the reproduction is clearer and distortion doesn't
appear until much higher amplification.

While it's possible to make an interconnect that would affect the
performance adversely, I'd say it would cost *more* than one which didn't.
And by the nature of an interconnect, it works *before* the amplification
you have control over, so how it can have an effect on distortion when you
change that level, I'm not sure.

Basically, you're amplifying the noise with the audio source. It
becomes more noticable at higher levels of amplification. I know this
is right, I've done it when installing ICE, you can tell easily that
the volume is the same but the background noise is louder when the
source volume is turned up.

Cable parameters consist of three things - resistance, inductance and
capacitance. If the output and input of two devices were a 'perfect' match
these might have some effect under some circumstances. But on domestic
gear, they aren't. You have a low impedance output feeding a high
impedance input. The amounts of the three cable parameters would have to
be *far* higher than any normal cable to have any audible effect on
performance.



SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
And by the nature of an interconnect, it works *before* the
amplification you have control over, so how it can have an effect on
distortion when you change that level, I'm not sure.

Basically, you're amplifying the noise with the audio source. It
becomes more noticable at higher levels of amplification. I know this
is right, I've done it when installing ICE, you can tell easily that
the volume is the same but the background noise is louder when the
source volume is turned up.

To all intents and purposes, cables don't have 'background noise' in the
lengths we're talking about. Of course any subsequent amplifier will make
a difference to the noise of the source, but that noise comes from the
source electronics, etc, not the cables.

--
*Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice?"

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

(James) wrote in message . com...

I want to get unamplified sound between my computer & DAB radio (in...

Many thanks for the replies. To sum up:

1. Now I understand that each phono plug socket has two solder tags.
Aha. Current set-up doesn't have the shielding connected at all.
Ooops.




3. Connecting the shielding at both ends or at one end. Some
divergent views.

screen is connected at both ends. Standard screened wire should do
fine. Ignore the snake oil nonsense, and dont bother with gold flashed
connectors unless:
a) your place is so damp you get corrosion (gold is corrosion proof)
b) the gold plating is specified as thick enough to prevent this -
most gold finishes are just cosmetic.


Regards, NT