I'm making a "strong" but cosmetically acceptable (I hope) external door out
of a fire door blank and a sheet of mahogany faced 18mm ply.

I intend to cut out 4 rectangular holes in the ply so when it goes onto the
firedoor blank, the whole thing looks like a decent external panelled door
once I put some mouldings round the inside edges / lips of the "panels" and
surround the outside edges of the door with 1/2" thick mahogany
(framing/sealing it).

It's a strength/cost/cosmetic compromise! I got all of the wood for £60.

Obviously I'll seal/protect it all heavily and use good woodglue /clamps to
mate the ply & doorblank surfaces.

My main question is, in addition to the glue, will I also have to pin or
screw the ply to the door to prevent shrinkage/warping at different rates?

I'm happy to screw it, but how will I best cover the screw holes up - will
plugs be obvious? I intend to stain / varnish.


Thanks in advance
Paul

"Paul J S Green" wrote in message
...
I'm making a "strong" but cosmetically acceptable (I hope) external door
out
of a fire door blank and a sheet of mahogany faced 18mm ply.

I intend to cut out 4 rectangular holes in the ply so when it goes onto
the
firedoor blank, the whole thing looks like a decent external panelled door
once I put some mouldings round the inside edges / lips of the "panels"
and
surround the outside edges of the door with 1/2" thick mahogany
(framing/sealing it).

It's a strength/cost/cosmetic compromise! I got all of the wood for £60.

Obviously I'll seal/protect it all heavily and use good woodglue /clamps
to
mate the ply & doorblank surfaces.

My main question is, in addition to the glue, will I also have to pin or
screw the ply to the door to prevent shrinkage/warping at different rates?

I'm happy to screw it, but how will I best cover the screw holes up - will
plugs be obvious? I intend to stain / varnish.


Thanks in advance
Paul




Hi Paul,

If it is a solid construct fire door, why are you lining it with ply ?
Wouldn't it be easier to just put the beads around the face in a panel shape
? If it is a real fire door and is lined with 18 mm ply, won't it will be
to heavy for the hinges ?

Is it a wood effect finish or an actual wooden surface ?


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"Paul J S Green" wrote in message
...
Hi Paul,

If it is a solid construct fire door, why are you lining it with ply ?
Wouldn't it be easier to just put the beads around the face in a panel
shape
? If it is a real fire door and is lined with 18 mm ply, won't it will
be
to heavy for the hinges ?

Is it a wood effect finish or an actual wooden surface ?

Thanks for the reply.

The door's faced on both sides with mahogany-style thin ply-type wood
sheeting and the inside core seems to be made up of blocks/offcuts of
hardwood glued together.

The ply will raise the outside surface so the rectangular cutouts in the
ply
with the beading around them will make the panels look recessed like all
of
other doors in the house.

I've got good strong standards and ball-bearing hinges, so I feel that
they
should be able to take the weight.

It's quite a prominent outside door so I would like it to look good, but I
_NEED_ it to be strong (and cheap at the moment).

Do you reckon it's doable??

Thanks again for taking the time.
Paul



It is do'able Paul, but the door itself, if it is a real fire door, will be
strong enough to handle a car hitting it if the hinges and standards take
the strain.

By putting bead flat around the existing surface, it will actually give the
effect of the centre panels being recessed, an optical illusion I think they
call it, especially if the surrounding doors have the same pattern.

Like this effect:

http://tinyurl.com/hx7l

If you look closely, you'll see that the bead work is actually laid on top
of a flat surface, but because of the effect of the bead, it actually looks
as though the centre panels are sunken.

Worth a try with bead you already have. You'll be cutting it to shape
anyway, so there is nothing stopping you placing it temporarily on the door
to see what it looks like without the outer ply.


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It is do'able Paul, but the door itself, if it is a real fire door, will
be
strong enough to handle a car hitting it if the hinges and standards take
the strain.

By putting bead flat around the existing surface, it will actually give
the
effect of the centre panels being recessed, an optical illusion I think
they
call it, especially if the surrounding doors have the same pattern.

Like this effect:

http://tinyurl.com/hx7l

If you look closely, you'll see that the bead work is actually laid on top
of a flat surface, but because of the effect of the bead, it actually
looks
as though the centre panels are sunken.

Worth a try with bead you already have. You'll be cutting it to shape
anyway, so there is nothing stopping you placing it temporarily on the
door
to see what it looks like without the outer ply.


Is the bead the approx 6" wide planks?

If I went ahead with my original plan, do you have a view on whether screws
will be needed and if so, how best to camoflage the the holes?

Thanks again
Paul

"Paul J S Green" wrote in message
...

It is do'able Paul, but the door itself, if it is a real fire door, will
be
strong enough to handle a car hitting it if the hinges and standards
take
the strain.

By putting bead flat around the existing surface, it will actually give
the
effect of the centre panels being recessed, an optical illusion I think
they
call it, especially if the surrounding doors have the same pattern.

Like this effect:

http://tinyurl.com/hx7l

If you look closely, you'll see that the bead work is actually laid on
top
of a flat surface, but because of the effect of the bead, it actually
looks
as though the centre panels are sunken.

Worth a try with bead you already have. You'll be cutting it to shape
anyway, so there is nothing stopping you placing it temporarily on the
door
to see what it looks like without the outer ply.


Is the bead the approx 6" wide planks?

If I went ahead with my original plan, do you have a view on whether
screws
will be needed and if so, how best to camoflage the the holes?

Thanks again
Paul



The beading is the moulded decorative wood you are thinking of putting
around the inside of the plywood. If you can get some bead that matches the
stuff on the existing doors, then place it on the surface of your door
blank, it should give the effect of being just like the other doors and you
shouldn't need to put anything else on the door.

To fit the beading you'll only need to squirt some wood glue over the back
of the bead and use a few panel pin nails to hold it in place until the glue
cures off. You may only need the panel pins hammered in to grip until the
glue sets, and then you could pull them back out so no nails will show at
all.


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In article , Paul J S
Green writes
I'm making a "strong" but cosmetically acceptable (I hope) external door out
of a fire door blank and a sheet of mahogany faced 18mm ply.

I intend to cut out 4 rectangular holes in the ply so when it goes onto the
firedoor blank, the whole thing looks like a decent external panelled door
once I put some mouldings round the inside edges / lips of the "panels" and
surround the outside edges of the door with 1/2" thick mahogany
(framing/sealing it).

It's a strength/cost/cosmetic compromise! I got all of the wood for £60.

Obviously I'll seal/protect it all heavily and use good woodglue /clamps to
mate the ply & doorblank surfaces.

My main question is, in addition to the glue, will I also have to pin or
screw the ply to the door to prevent shrinkage/warping at different rates?

I'm happy to screw it, but how will I best cover the screw holes up - will
plugs be obvious? I intend to stain / varnish.
I can understand your choice of making cutouts to get the most authentic
look, but I have seen some pretty good mock ups that don't go that far.

I think you can get a good look by routing a channel in the outer sheet of
ply to sit some understated mouldings in. The outer could be screwed to
the block blank only in the routed recesses and heads then covered with
the moulding. I'd use glue between the skins too.

Using an understated moulding, more like an inlay, looks like making a
statement rather making than a bad copy. Mouldings pinned on top do
look naff.

This is a planned project of mine, so I have looked at quite a few doors :-)

HTH
--
fred

Paul J S Green wrote in message ...etc

I'd be very worried about warping of a thick ply face on a fire door, even
with a glued and screwed construction. I put in a new claimed hardwood, but
actually balsa wood front door 4 days ago and it has already warped by about
3mm.( I lied, 5mm) I think that the suggestion to surface bead the face of
the existing door might be safest. Most fire doors I believe are internal
use specified and may not like humidity changes. If you decide to go ahead,
I would screw through the whole door from the inside with some "pretty"
screws, or, lose the heads in brown screw covers. It requires careful
selection of the screw length to not penetrate the front of the ply and an
accurate pilot hole will be required. Feasible, but not easy. I don't think
I would glue the ply in place, a bit of movement might be a good thing. It's
easy to add the glue afterwards if it seems necessary.
Regards
Capitol

I'd be very worried about warping of a thick ply face on a fire door, even
with a glued and screwed construction. I put in a new claimed hardwood,
but
actually balsa wood front door 4 days ago and it has already warped by
about
3mm.( I lied, 5mm) I think that the suggestion to surface bead the face of
the existing door might be safest. Most fire doors I believe are internal
use specified and may not like humidity changes. If you decide to go
ahead,
I would screw through the whole door from the inside with some "pretty"
screws, or, lose the heads in brown screw covers. It requires careful
selection of the screw length to not penetrate the front of the ply and an
accurate pilot hole will be required. Feasible, but not easy. I don't
think
I would glue the ply in place, a bit of movement might be a good thing.
It's
easy to add the glue afterwards if it seems necessary.
Regards
Capitol

I do plan to seal/varnish heavily - do you think this will provide a level
of protection from warping, etc?

I've got another blank as an outside door - it's been on for a couple of
months now. It did "move" a little over the first week or two and i needed
to adjust the strike plate, but it's settled now! I had ronsealed the
outside face, but not the inside.

I thought about screwing from the inside and carefully countersinking and
plugging the holes with plugs made from offcuts of mahogany.


thanks
paul

BigWallop wrote in message ...
The beading is the moulded decorative wood you are thinking of putting
around the inside of the plywood. If you can get some bead that matches
the
stuff on the existing doors, then place it on the surface of your door
blank, it should give the effect of being just like the other doors and you
shouldn't need to put anything else on the door.
Much the best idea. As long as the beading is not too big it looks fine,
plus you're not creating a whole series of edges and ledges for water to
soak into.

BigWallop wrote in message ...
The beading is the moulded decorative wood you are thinking of putting
around the inside of the plywood. If you can get some bead that matches
the
stuff on the existing doors, then place it on the surface of your door
blank, it should give the effect of being just like the other doors and
you
shouldn't need to put anything else on the door.
Much the best idea. As long as the beading is not too big it looks fine,
plus you're not creating a whole series of edges and ledges for water to
soak into.

Thanks all - I'll get some beading and lay it out on the door blank.

cheers
Paul

I'm making a "strong" but cosmetically acceptable (I hope) external door
out
of a fire door blank and a sheet of mahogany faced 18mm ply.

I intend to cut out 4 rectangular holes in the ply so when it goes onto
the
firedoor blank, the whole thing looks like a decent external panelled door
once I put some mouldings round the inside edges / lips of the "panels"
and
surround the outside edges of the door with 1/2" thick mahogany
(framing/sealing it).

It's a strength/cost/cosmetic compromise! I got all of the wood for £60.

Obviously I'll seal/protect it all heavily and use good woodglue /clamps
to
mate the ply & doorblank surfaces.

My main question is, in addition to the glue, will I also have to pin or
screw the ply to the door to prevent shrinkage/warping at different rates?

I'm happy to screw it, but how will I best cover the screw holes up - will
plugs be obvious? I intend to stain / varnish.


Meant to put on original post; my "fire door" says "Lightweight Firecheck
Doorblanks" on it.

Thanks
Paul

Paul J S Green writes
Meant to put on original post; my "fire door" says "Lightweight Firecheck
Doorblanks" on it.

I'm sure you know these are interior doors that will *need* the
protection of your ply - I usually use 12mm WBP - and, if in an exposed
location, edging strip round the whole door.

And the advice to use lay-on bead is spot-on. If you expose the
original door ply, it won't last a year in most locations.
--
roger
delete x's to email

"BigWallop" wrote in message ...

http://tinyurl.com/hx7l

Interesting pic... but Bigwallop my friend, let me take you aside and
explain thats really not where youre meant to put the doors, honestly.
And I thought fitting a loo to a door was strange...

Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

http://tinyurl.com/hx7l

Interesting pic... but Bigwallop my friend, let me take you aside and
explain thats really not where youre meant to put the doors, honestly.
And I thought fitting a loo to a door was strange...

Regards, NT

ROFL !!! It sort of brings to life any knock, knock jokes when you have a
door in the middle of the living room floor. :-))


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"BigWallop" wrote in message news:HojVa.2495$U%
ROFL !!! It sort of brings to life any knock, knock jokes when you have a
door in the middle of the living room floor. :-))



Regards, NT