Hi there,

I've recently moved into a house which is around 3 to 4 years old and there
is a thermostatic shower fitted in the bathroom.

The only problem is that it isn't very hot - The dial goes from 0 to 9 and
it only has warmth to the output between 8 and 9, with 8 being mildly warm
and 9 being just warm enough to shower.

The water flow rate and heat from other taps is very good - The cold is very
fast and the hot has a slower flow rate (but not bad by any means) The hot
water is also nice and hot (too hot to wash with on it's own)

The hot water comes from a combi boiler which I assume is fed via the cold
mains pressure (i.e no tank)

Anyway, is this just an indication of the fact that the shower is knackered
and needs replacing? Or that the system is "inbalanced" in some way in that
the cold water which has a higher flow rate is just "overpowering" the hot
when mixed.

Basically my question is should I just get a new one fitted or are
thermostatic showers usually fitted with some means of adjusting the input
ratio of hot to water? The shower is made by Sirrus - Are they any good?

Any ideas (or suggestions as to an affordable make and decent quality
thermostatic shower)?

Cheers

Cubik

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:41:33 -0000, "Cubik"
wrote:

Hi there,

I've recently moved into a house which is around 3 to 4 years old and there
is a thermostatic shower fitted in the bathroom.

The only problem is that it isn't very hot - The dial goes from 0 to 9 and
it only has warmth to the output between 8 and 9, with 8 being mildly warm
and 9 being just warm enough to shower.

The water flow rate and heat from other taps is very good - The cold is very
fast and the hot has a slower flow rate (but not bad by any means) The hot
water is also nice and hot (too hot to wash with on it's own)

The hot water comes from a combi boiler which I assume is fed via the cold
mains pressure (i.e no tank)

Anyway, is this just an indication of the fact that the shower is knackered
and needs replacing? Or that the system is "inbalanced" in some way in that
the cold water which has a higher flow rate is just "overpowering" the hot
when mixed.

Basically my question is should I just get a new one fitted or are
thermostatic showers usually fitted with some means of adjusting the input
ratio of hot to water? The shower is made by Sirrus - Are they any good?

Any ideas (or suggestions as to an affordable make and decent quality
thermostatic shower)?

Cheers

Cubik



This may simply be that the boiler is not producing enough hot water,
or it could be the shower.

At this time of year, the mains cold water is quite cold - 8 degrees
is fairly typical.

It would be useful to know the make and model of the boiler.

You could usefully measure the flow rate and temperature from a hot
tap. Use a container of a known size - e.g. a 5 litre bucket and
time how long it takes to fill. THen you can work out the flow rate.


Now measure the flow rate of the shower.
To give you an idea, a shower needs to be at about 40 degrees so you
can work out how much cold is added to what the boiler is producing.
Obviously if the flow rate from the shower is greater than from your
hot tap it means that either a fair amount of cold is being mixed in
or that it is simply passing through the boiler more quickly when
feeding the shower, which also means that the water reachin the shower
will be cooler anyway.

This will give you an idea of whether the limiting factor is the
boiler or the shower.

I think it's worth doing this exercise before you rush off an buy a
new shower simply because it could easily be that the boiler is the
limiting factor.

In terms of new showers, I would look at Mira, Aqualisa, Grohe,
HansGrohe.








..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:41:33 -0000, "Cubik"
wrote:

Hi there,

I've recently moved into a house which is around 3 to 4 years old and
there
is a thermostatic shower fitted in the bathroom.

The only problem is that it isn't very hot - The dial goes from 0 to 9
and
it only has warmth to the output between 8 and 9, with 8 being mildly
warm
and 9 being just warm enough to shower.

The water flow rate and heat from other taps is very good - The cold is
very
fast and the hot has a slower flow rate (but not bad by any means) The
hot
water is also nice and hot (too hot to wash with on it's own)

The hot water comes from a combi boiler which I assume is fed via the
cold
mains pressure (i.e no tank)

Anyway, is this just an indication of the fact that the shower is
knackered
and needs replacing? Or that the system is "inbalanced" in some way in
that
the cold water which has a higher flow rate is just "overpowering" the
hot
when mixed.

Basically my question is should I just get a new one fitted or are
thermostatic showers usually fitted with some means of adjusting the
input
ratio of hot to water? The shower is made by Sirrus - Are they any good?

Any ideas (or suggestions as to an affordable make and decent quality
thermostatic shower)?

Cheers

Cubik



This may simply be that the boiler is not producing enough hot water,
or it could be the shower.

At this time of year, the mains cold water is quite cold - 8 degrees
is fairly typical.

It would be useful to know the make and model of the boiler.

You could usefully measure the flow rate and temperature from a hot
tap. Use a container of a known size - e.g. a 5 litre bucket and
time how long it takes to fill. THen you can work out the flow rate.


Now measure the flow rate of the shower.
To give you an idea, a shower needs to be at about 40 degrees so you
can work out how much cold is added to what the boiler is producing.
Obviously if the flow rate from the shower is greater than from your
hot tap it means that either a fair amount of cold is being mixed in
or that it is simply passing through the boiler more quickly when
feeding the shower, which also means that the water reachin the shower
will be cooler anyway.

This will give you an idea of whether the limiting factor is the
boiler or the shower.

I think it's worth doing this exercise before you rush off an buy a
new shower simply because it could easily be that the boiler is the
limiting factor.

It is highly unlikely that the boiler is not up to it. If the boiler is not
delivering the heat and flow for just one shower then the boiler is faulty
in some way.


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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:17:41 -0000, "IMM" wrote:




It is highly unlikely that the boiler is not up to it. If the boiler is not
delivering the heat and flow for just one shower then the boiler is faulty
in some way.


Without knowing the figures, that is pure conjecture.



---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:17:41 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

It is highly unlikely that the boiler is not up to it. If the boiler is
not
delivering the heat and flow for just one shower then the boiler is
faulty
in some way.

Without knowing the figures, that is pure conjecture.

A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a drencher is used


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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:00:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:17:41 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

It is highly unlikely that the boiler is not up to it. If the boiler is
not
delivering the heat and flow for just one shower then the boiler is
faulty
in some way.

Without knowing the figures, that is pure conjecture.

A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a drencher is used


It depends on what you mean by average.

One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

How would you suggest that a 9-11 lpm combi could deliver its needs
when the cold water temperature is 5 to 8 degrees, the shower
operating temperature is 40 and the boiler is specified to give a 35
degree temperature rise?

.... or did you mean something akin to an electric shower..??




---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:00:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:17:41 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

It is highly unlikely that the boiler is not up to it. If the boiler
is
not
delivering the heat and flow for just one shower then the boiler is
faulty
in some way.

Without knowing the figures, that is pure conjecture.

A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a drencher is used

It depends on what you mean by average.

One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

How would you suggest that a 9-11 lpm combi could deliver its needs

The smallish combi will be running flat out, but it will deliver a good
shower.


---
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I've got a related question.
We're installing a new shower and combi boiler system:
I've been told by the guy who's installing the boiler that we should
definitely go for a manual separate hot/cold shower as these are far
more reliable, particularly in hard water areas (london).
Is he right? I don't like the idea of fiddling with the controls all
the time and having the water go hot and cold.

Any advice much appreciated.

n

On 11 Jan 2004 06:06:29 -0800, (Nathan) wrote:

I've got a related question.
We're installing a new shower and combi boiler system:
I've been told by the guy who's installing the boiler that we should
definitely go for a manual separate hot/cold shower as these are far
more reliable, particularly in hard water areas (london).
Is he right? I don't like the idea of fiddling with the controls all
the time and having the water go hot and cold.

Any advice much appreciated.

n

If you buy a good quality one (Mira, Aqualisa, Grohe, Hansgrohe) then
it will be fine, although with any shower, thermostatic or not, you
will have to descale the head in a hard water area.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:25:44 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:00:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:17:41 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

It is highly unlikely that the boiler is not up to it. If the boiler
is
not
delivering the heat and flow for just one shower then the boiler is
faulty
in some way.

Without knowing the figures, that is pure conjecture.

A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a drencher is used

It depends on what you mean by average.

One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

How would you suggest that a 9-11 lpm combi could deliver its needs

The smallish combi will be running flat out, but it will deliver a good
shower.


How? 9-11lpm is only about half of 20.......


---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Nathan wrote:
I've got a related question.
We're installing a new shower and combi boiler system:
I've been told by the guy who's installing the boiler that we should
definitely go for a manual separate hot/cold shower as these are far
more reliable, particularly in hard water areas (london).
Is he right? I don't like the idea of fiddling with the controls all
the time and having the water go hot and cold.

Any advice much appreciated.

n

Its rubbish. I fitted the victorian style, as sold by Screwfix & others, to
a small combi in a London flat and it great..

Cubik wrote:
Hi there,

I've recently moved into a house which is around 3 to 4 years old and
there is a thermostatic shower fitted in the bathroom.

The only problem is that it isn't very hot - The dial goes from 0 to
9 and it only has warmth to the output between 8 and 9, with 8 being
mildly warm and 9 being just warm enough to shower.

The water flow rate and heat from other taps is very good - The cold
is very fast and the hot has a slower flow rate (but not bad by any
means) The hot water is also nice and hot (too hot to wash with on
it's own)

The hot water comes from a combi boiler which I assume is fed via the
cold mains pressure (i.e no tank)

Anyway, is this just an indication of the fact that the shower is
knackered and needs replacing? Or that the system is "inbalanced" in
some way in that the cold water which has a higher flow rate is just
"overpowering" the hot when mixed.

Basically my question is should I just get a new one fitted or are
thermostatic showers usually fitted with some means of adjusting the
input ratio of hot to water? The shower is made by Sirrus - Are they
any good?

Any ideas (or suggestions as to an affordable make and decent quality
thermostatic shower)?

Cheers

Cubik

I had similar problem when I fitted Victorian style, Screwfix supplied, to a
small combi boiler.
The manufacurer was very helpful.
Firstly they said to make sure the flow restrictors to Hot and Cold feeds
were appropriate to the installation.
(Several of these were supplied in the kit) e.g. cold main feed and combi
hot feed.
Then they told me of another adjustment which meant taking the valve off the
wall and adjusting a large screw in the back.
This altered the amount of HW flow in the valve and did the trick. The end
user is very happy with the result.
You'll need to find the install instructions for your unit and/or speak to
the manufacturer.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:25:44 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:00:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:17:41 -0000, "IMM"
wrote:

It is highly unlikely that the boiler is not up to it. If the
boiler
is
not
delivering the heat and flow for just one shower then the boiler is
faulty
in some way.

Without knowing the figures, that is pure conjecture.

A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a drencher is
used

It depends on what you mean by average.

One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

How would you suggest that a 9-11 lpm combi could deliver its needs

The smallish combi will be running flat out, but it will deliver a good
shower.

How? 9-11lpm is only about half of 20.......

You add cold to take the flow up and 10 litres a minutes is a good
economical and environmentally friendly shower. I the USA local,utilities
went around to each home and fitted flow regulators free to each shower
giving a 8 litres/min shower. Few complained about performance. They saved
building another power station, with the power saved from wasting
unnecessarily heated water.




---
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"Nathan" wrote in message
om...
I've got a related question.
We're installing a new shower and combi boiler system:
I've been told by the guy who's installing the boiler that we should
definitely go for a manual separate hot/cold shower as these are far
more reliable, particularly in hard water areas (london).
Is he right? I don't like the idea of fiddling with the controls all
the time and having the water go hot and cold.

Any advice much appreciated.

It will have to have an integrated pressure equalisation valve inside,
otherwise he is an idiot for saying that. Mira, and others make mixer with
them integrated. They can be fitted in the pipes before the mixer as a
separate unit.




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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:30:45 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a drencher is
used

It depends on what you mean by average.

One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

How would you suggest that a 9-11 lpm combi could deliver its needs

The smallish combi will be running flat out, but it will deliver a good
shower.

How? 9-11lpm is only about half of 20.......

You add cold to take the flow up and 10 litres a minutes is a good
economical and environmentally friendly shower.

Hang on a second. If the water going into the boiler is at 5 degrees
and it uplifts the temperature by 35 degrees, that takes it to 40
degrees by my addition. This is shower temperature. Where is the
scope for adding more cold?

10lpm is not much more than an electric shower and they are certainly
disappointing. It may be environmentally friendly, but it's not much
cop is it? If you are going to follow this line of reasoning then
you might as well advocate not showering at all - that's even more
environmentally friendly from one perspective but not that much from
another.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:30:45 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a drencher
is
used

It depends on what you mean by average.

One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and
standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

How would you suggest that a 9-11 lpm combi could deliver its needs

The smallish combi will be running flat out, but it will deliver a
good
shower.

How? 9-11lpm is only about half of 20.......

You add cold to take the flow up and 10 litres a minutes is a good
economical and environmentally friendly shower.

Hang on a second. If the water going into the boiler is at 5 degrees
and it uplifts the temperature by 35 degrees, that takes it to 40
degrees by my addition. This is shower temperature. Where is the
scope for adding more cold?

10lpm is not much more than an electric shower

Electric showers are about 5 l/min. A combi will burn about 22 kW to get 10
litres/min. I know of no 22 kW electric shower.

and they are certainly
disappointing.

10 litres/min shower under mains pressure is very good.

It may be environmentally friendly, but it's not much
cop is it?

Lots of cop. People want the high pressure against their skin, the volume
is not that important to them.




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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:00:10 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:30:45 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a drencher
is
used

It depends on what you mean by average.

One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and
standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

How would you suggest that a 9-11 lpm combi could deliver its needs

The smallish combi will be running flat out, but it will deliver a
good
shower.

How? 9-11lpm is only about half of 20.......

You add cold to take the flow up and 10 litres a minutes is a good
economical and environmentally friendly shower.

Hang on a second. If the water going into the boiler is at 5 degrees
and it uplifts the temperature by 35 degrees, that takes it to 40
degrees by my addition. This is shower temperature. Where is the
scope for adding more cold?

10lpm is not much more than an electric shower

Electric showers are about 5 l/min. A combi will burn about 22 kW to get 10
litres/min. I know of no 22 kW electric shower.

and they are certainly
disappointing.

10 litres/min shower under mains pressure is very good.

10lpm is only 10lpm.


It may be environmentally friendly, but it's not much
cop is it?

Lots of cop. People want the high pressure against their skin, the volume
is not that important to them.


Generalisation. You can't speak for everybody.

A small volume rate under high pressure implies a shower head with
small jets. This is not comfortable.




---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:00:10 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:30:45 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



A smallish combi can handle the average shower, unless a
drencher
is
used

It depends on what you mean by average.

One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and
standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

How would you suggest that a 9-11 lpm combi could deliver its
needs

The smallish combi will be running flat out, but it will deliver a
good
shower.

How? 9-11lpm is only about half of 20.......

You add cold to take the flow up and 10 litres a minutes is a good
economical and environmentally friendly shower.

Hang on a second. If the water going into the boiler is at 5 degrees
and it uplifts the temperature by 35 degrees, that takes it to 40
degrees by my addition. This is shower temperature. Where is the
scope for adding more cold?

10lpm is not much more than an electric shower

Electric showers are about 5 l/min. A combi will burn about 22 kW to get
10
litres/min. I know of no 22 kW electric shower.

and they are certainly
disappointing.

10 litres/min shower under mains pressure is very good.

10lpm is only 10lpm.


It may be environmentally friendly, but it's not much
cop is it?

Lots of cop. People want the high pressure against their skin, the
volume
is not that important to them.

Generalisation. You can't speak for everybody.

Not a generalisation, that is what most people want.




---
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:18:27 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:00:10 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

and they are certainly
disappointing.

10 litres/min shower under mains pressure is very good.

10lpm is only 10lpm.


It may be environmentally friendly, but it's not much
cop is it?

Lots of cop. People want the high pressure against their skin, the
volume
is not that important to them.

Generalisation. You can't speak for everybody.

Not a generalisation, that is what most people want.


You've asked them?.. commissioned a Gallup poll? ... enlisted
marketing help from Alastair Campbell?




---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:18:27 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:00:10 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

and they are certainly
disappointing.

10 litres/min shower under mains pressure is very good.

10lpm is only 10lpm.

It may be environmentally friendly, but it's not much
cop is it?

Lots of cop. People want the high pressure against their skin, the
volume
is not that important to them.

Generalisation. You can't speak for everybody.

Not a generalisation, that is what most people want.

You've asked them?.. commissioned a Gallup poll? ... enlisted
marketing help from Alastair Campbell?

Read the section on water conservation in this months mag Selfbuild and
Design.


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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:01:40 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:18:27 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:00:10 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

and they are certainly
disappointing.

10 litres/min shower under mains pressure is very good.

10lpm is only 10lpm.

It may be environmentally friendly, but it's not much
cop is it?

Lots of cop. People want the high pressure against their skin, the
volume
is not that important to them.

Generalisation. You can't speak for everybody.

Not a generalisation, that is what most people want.

You've asked them?.. commissioned a Gallup poll? ... enlisted
marketing help from Alastair Campbell?

Read the section on water conservation in this months mag Selfbuild and
Design.

Why?


---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:01:40 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:18:27 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:00:10 -0000, "IMM"
wrote:

and they are certainly
disappointing.

10 litres/min shower under mains pressure is very good.

10lpm is only 10lpm.

It may be environmentally friendly, but it's not much
cop is it?

Lots of cop. People want the high pressure against their skin, the
volume
is not that important to them.

Generalisation. You can't speak for everybody.

Not a generalisation, that is what most people want.

You've asked them?.. commissioned a Gallup poll? ... enlisted
marketing help from Alastair Campbell?

Read the section on water conservation in this months mag Selfbuild and
Design.

Why?

It says 7 litres/min is more than adequate, as was in the USA, and 5 l/min
should be aimed for.


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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:05:13 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


Read the section on water conservation in this months mag Selfbuild and
Design.

Why?

It says 7 litres/min is more than adequate, as was in the USA, and 5 l/min
should be aimed for.


Big deal. I don't really care what they say. It depends on your
definition of adequate.

You might as well say that a milk float is adequate. It is if
you're delivering milk in the wee small hours and don't want to wake
people up and perhaps if you have a old one for taking stuff to the
tip, but apart from that, its uses are limited.

I've got a book entitled "101 uses for a Dead Cat". I'll add "shower
provision according to IMM" to it.




---

..andy

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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:05:13 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


Read the section on water conservation in this months mag Selfbuild
and
Design.

Why?

It says 7 litres/min is more than adequate, as was in the USA, and 5
l/min
should be aimed for.


Big deal. I don't really care what they say. It depends on your
definition of adequate.

Your is obviously way out the norm. Because you like drenchers, it doesn't
mean that is the norm for 99% of the population.



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IMM wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:05:13 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


Read the section on water conservation in this months mag
Selfbuild and Design.

Why?

It says 7 litres/min is more than adequate, as was in the USA, and
5 l/min should be aimed for.


Big deal. I don't really care what they say. It depends on your
definition of adequate.

Your is obviously way out the norm. Because you like drenchers, it
doesn't mean that is the norm for 99% of the population.



---

US showerheads are limited by code in some states to 3 gal/m (~11 l/m) They
were not happy at this infringement of their civil liberties, hence illicit
cross border trade in drenchers.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:07:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:05:13 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


Read the section on water conservation in this months mag Selfbuild
and
Design.

Why?

It says 7 litres/min is more than adequate, as was in the USA, and 5
l/min
should be aimed for.


Big deal. I don't really care what they say. It depends on your
definition of adequate.

Your is obviously way out the norm. Because you like drenchers, it doesn't
mean that is the norm for 99% of the population.

15lpm is not a drencher. That is 25lpm plus.

You are no more qualified than a self build magazine to say what
people want.



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..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Toby" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:05:13 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


Read the section on water conservation in this months mag
Selfbuild and Design.

Why?

It says 7 litres/min is more than adequate, as was in the USA, and
5 l/min should be aimed for.

Big deal. I don't really care what they say. It depends on your
definition of adequate.

Your is obviously way out the norm. Because you like drenchers, it
doesn't mean that is the norm for 99% of the population.

US showerheads are limited by code in some states to 3 gal/m (~11 l/m)
They
were not happy at this infringement of their civil liberties, hence
illicit
cross border trade in drenchers.

This sort of stuff caused the Mafia to rise to power. Elliot Ness will have
to raid everyone's bathroom.


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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:07:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:05:13 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


Read the section on water conservation in this months mag Selfbuild
and
Design.

Why?

It says 7 litres/min is more than adequate, as was in the USA, and 5
l/min
should be aimed for.


Big deal. I don't really care what they say. It depends on your
definition of adequate.

Your is obviously way out the norm. Because you like drenchers, it
doesn't
mean that is the norm for 99% of the population.

15lpm is not a drencher. That is 25lpm plus.

You are no more qualified than a self build magazine to say what
people want.

Well it's not the same as you, that is clear.


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"Cubik" wrote in message ...
Hi there,

I've recently moved into a house which is around 3 to 4 years old and there
is a thermostatic shower fitted in the bathroom.

The only problem is that it isn't very hot - The dial goes from 0 to 9 and
it only has warmth to the output between 8 and 9, with 8 being mildly warm
and 9 being just warm enough to shower.

The water flow rate and heat from other taps is very good - The cold is very
fast and the hot has a slower flow rate (but not bad by any means) The hot
water is also nice and hot (too hot to wash with on it's own)

The hot water comes from a combi boiler which I assume is fed via the cold
mains pressure (i.e no tank)

Anyway, is this just an indication of the fact that the shower is knackered
and needs replacing? Or that the system is "inbalanced" in some way in that
the cold water which has a higher flow rate is just "overpowering" the hot
when mixed.

Basically my question is should I just get a new one fitted or are
thermostatic showers usually fitted with some means of adjusting the input
ratio of hot to water? The shower is made by Sirrus - Are they any good?

Any ideas (or suggestions as to an affordable make and decent quality
thermostatic shower)?

Cheers

Cubik

Simple my dear Watson
What is happening here probably is the following
As you will be aware combi heated water gets cooler the more the flow,
but the thermostatic shower does not realise this so it says i want
hotter water so i will increase the ratio of hot water to cold . This
of course then increases the flow of hot which makes the water cooler.
The tap in the sink is adjusted by you so if the water is too cool
what do you do. Yes decrease the flow.
Solution
turn down the input flow of water to the combi so it never flows too
cold.
Well worked a treat for me

HTH Phil

Andy Hall wrote in message ...
One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..


Interesting to note that a Drencher shower with body jets can require 10
gallons per minute! I know of a set up with 2 x 50 gallon water heaters( in
parallel) which runs out of thermostatically controlled water in around 10
minutes. The shower temperature then drops significantly because the
thermostatic valve cannot reduce the cold supply sufficiently to work
correctly! It is of course, worse in winter.

Regards
Capitol

"Capitol" wrote in message
...

Andy Hall wrote in message ...
One of my showers - Aqualisa with a standard valve, hose and standard
showerhead (not one of the large drench types or multiple heads
delivers around 20 litres per minute..

Interesting to note that a Drencher shower with body jets can require 10
gallons per minute! I know of a set up with 2 x 50 gallon water
eaters( in
parallel) which runs out of thermostatically controlled water in around 10
minutes. The shower temperature then drops significantly because the
thermostatic valve cannot reduce the cold supply sufficiently to work
correctly! It is of course, worse in winter.

Having a large boiler dumping all its heat, using a priority system, and a
blending valve on the flow and return of the boiler can deliver replenish
approx 10 litres a minute plus water into the cylinder. With this sort of
draw-off, a flow switch should be used on the shower hot pipe, to bring in
the boiler immediately. In short, use all available from boiler and
cylinders.

Drencher shower were outlawed in parts of the USA.



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