I got an SDS recently too. One of the first jobs I did with it
was sink an electrical socket in the inner leaf of a cavity wall.
Using my old hammer drill, I would first pepper the area with
holes and then excavate with a bolster. I've got used to the look
and feel of this operation, so I no longer use a depth stop for
the drilling.

With the SDS, this was the first and only time I've so far used
it as a drill rather than as a chiseling tool. So I drilled my
hole as usual, and after a few moments all resistance
disappeared.

Oops - I'd drilled right through to the cavity, which is way, way
deeper than you need to go through plaster into breeze block. And
this was with a great big fat bit too.

W.

In message , Andrew McKay
writes

I now know that my Christmas present list should have had an SDS drill
on it years ago......to anyone reading this who hasn't used an SDS
drill before I suggest you start dropping hints to she who must be
obeyed around now to make sure Santa remembers

OK, OK, I'm convinced :-)

Since moving to NE Scotland, where our walls are solid granite, drilling
a hole with a standard B&D hammer drill is a joke. Presumably an SDS
drill would cope, without problems?

I see that Argos list two, a Bosch PBH2200RE SDS Drill, and Challenge
Pro SDS Rotary Hammer Drill Kit. Prices UKP 100 and 25 respectively.
Who are Challenge? Cheap and nasty?
--
Graeme

I spend a happy half hour when I got my SDS drill, turning a stone from the
rockery into swiss cheese. It was just so much fun to have somthing that
goes through ANYTHING.

--
Tony Collins



"Woodspoiler" wrote in
message ...
I got an SDS recently too. One of the first jobs I did with it
was sink an electrical socket in the inner leaf of a cavity wall.
Using my old hammer drill, I would first pepper the area with
holes and then excavate with a bolster. I've got used to the look
and feel of this operation, so I no longer use a depth stop for
the drilling.

With the SDS, this was the first and only time I've so far used
it as a drill rather than as a chiseling tool. So I drilled my
hole as usual, and after a few moments all resistance
disappeared.

Oops - I'd drilled right through to the cavity, which is way, way
deeper than you need to go through plaster into breeze block. And
this was with a great big fat bit too.

W.

In article ,
Andrew McKay writes:
I'm sure some of you guys will have a laugh about this, but it
surprised the heck out of me!

I bought an SDS drill a couple of weeks back, never having used one
before. And today I got to drill me my first hole in a brick. Nothing
too magical there then.

Since the day I've been drilling holes in bricks to take a rawlplug
I've got used to my trusty Black and Decker with its hammer option
taking a while to drill thru the brick, especially the hard-type
bricks I happen to have in my walls around here. And I happen to have
used fairly meaty B&D electric drills by domestic standards.

However using the SDS drill with hammer mode was like a hot knife
cutting through butter. I had a rawlplug sized hole sunk into the
brick in seconds! I was literally gobsmacked!

I always start with hammer off. If you hit mortar (particularly
lime mortar) with SDS hammer on, you end up with a hole 3 times
broader and 10 times deeper than you intended in less than a
millisecond ;-)

Also, I've had the occasional soft brick which drills fine without
hammer, but shatters to a thousand pieces if an SDS hammer drill
bit touches it.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Andrew McKay
writes

I now know that my Christmas present list should have had an SDS drill
on it years ago......to anyone reading this who hasn't used an SDS
drill before I suggest you start dropping hints to she who must be
obeyed around now to make sure Santa remembers

OK, OK, I'm convinced :-)

Since moving to NE Scotland, where our walls are solid granite, drilling
a hole with a standard B&D hammer drill is a joke. Presumably an SDS
drill would cope, without problems?

I see that Argos list two, a Bosch PBH2200RE SDS Drill, and Challenge
Pro SDS Rotary Hammer Drill Kit. Prices UKP 100 and 25 respectively.
Who are Challenge? Cheap and nasty?
--
Graeme

Steer well clear of Challenge Graeme, it isn't worth even the price they
want for it. A friend got one just about a month ago and it's broken
already, I think the chuck has lost its grip, and the guarantee states that,
literally, it shouldn't be used to drill hard masonry. So that should tell
you a bit about it.


---
BigWallop

http://basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 30/06/03

On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:26:28 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

Since moving to NE Scotland, where our walls are solid granite, drilling
a hole with a standard B&D hammer drill is a joke. Presumably an SDS
drill would cope, without problems?

Well I can't give you a definite "yes" to that question, but believe
me, the bricks on our house were hard baked, and then apparently put
back in the oven with some extra hardener added.

With my B&D 650w "domestic" hammer drill, which I thought was the bees
leg joints with respect to drilling holes, it would take absolutely
'kin ages to drill even a small sized hole.

With my trusty new SDS 850w drill (which I admit I bought from a local
Homebase shed because I needed a drill fast - cost £79) it seems that
all I have to do is make sure the bit is positioned on the right mark
on the wall, squeeze the trigger for a maximum of 3 seconds, and I've
got me a hole into which a rawlplug fits. And the drill bit didn't
appear to wander as it made the hole either.

Now I have to admit this experience to which I relate equates to the
drilling of two separate holes in the same brick. Just maybe I've
picked the one brick in the whole damn house which was made of brick
coloured swiss cheese - but I don't think so. The pile of brick
sawdust which appeared on the floor sure as heck looked authentic to
me.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

On 3 Jul 2003 21:41:52 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

I always start with hammer off. If you hit mortar (particularly
lime mortar) with SDS hammer on, you end up with a hole 3 times
broader and 10 times deeper than you intended in less than a
millisecond ;-)

Also, I've had the occasional soft brick which drills fine without
hammer, but shatters to a thousand pieces if an SDS hammer drill
bit touches it.

Good advice - thanks.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:26:28 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

Since moving to NE Scotland, where our walls are solid granite, drilling
a hole with a standard B&D hammer drill is a joke. Presumably an SDS
drill would cope, without problems?

Well I can't give you a definite "yes" to that question, but believe
me, the bricks on our house were hard baked, and then apparently put
back in the oven with some extra hardener added.

With my B&D 650w "domestic" hammer drill, which I thought was the bees
leg joints with respect to drilling holes, it would take absolutely
'kin ages to drill even a small sized hole.

With my trusty new SDS 850w drill (which I admit I bought from a local
Homebase shed because I needed a drill fast - cost £79) it seems that
all I have to do is make sure the bit is positioned on the right mark
on the wall, squeeze the trigger for a maximum of 3 seconds, and I've
got me a hole into which a rawlplug fits. And the drill bit didn't
appear to wander as it made the hole either.

Now I have to admit this experience to which I relate equates to the
drilling of two separate holes in the same brick. Just maybe I've
picked the one brick in the whole damn house which was made of brick
coloured swiss cheese - but I don't think so. The pile of brick
sawdust which appeared on the floor sure as heck looked authentic to
me.

Andrew


The price you paid for it is about right Andrew, for a good one around the
house, and should last you a good long while. We picked up two, 110v DeWalt
SDS guns and I think I'd have been better with my B&Q one for the job they
did. DeWalt are living on past reputation in my opinion, and they should
get back to what they were good at. We ended up throwing them away and
paying good money for two Bosch makes which have gone on now for the past
two years, with a bit TLC and drink and a meal now and again. "You gets
wot' ya pays fir" I suppose.


---
BigWallop

http://basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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In message , Tony Collins
writes
I spend a happy half hour when I got my SDS drill, turning a stone from
the rockery into swiss cheese. It was just so much fun to have somthing
that goes through ANYTHING.

I keep reading all these mentions of SDS drills and I still don't know
how an SDS drill is different from my elderly B&D Hammer thingy. Can
someone please enlighten me of the ways in which SDS differs...

--
dave @ stejonda

On 3 Jul 2003 21:41:52 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

I always start with hammer off. If you hit mortar (particularly
lime mortar) with SDS hammer on, you end up with a hole 3 times
broader and 10 times deeper than you intended in less than a
millisecond ;-)

Also, I've had the occasional soft brick which drills fine without
hammer, but shatters to a thousand pieces if an SDS hammer drill
bit touches it.

Actually, you've just made me wonder if on buying an SDS, might it be
better off using the old hammer first, and switch to SDS when the
going gets too tough for it. The thought I'm having is that you'd get
it started gentler and possibly more accurate based on your comment
above, and presumably conserve the life of both tools a little better
too. Granted it'd be a bit more messing about to do it though.

Not been SDS route yet, so it's only a guess.

Take Care,
Gnube

In article ,
Graeme wrote:

I see that Argos list two, a Bosch PBH2200RE SDS Drill, and Challenge
Pro SDS Rotary Hammer Drill Kit. Prices UKP 100 and 25 respectively.
Who are Challenge? Cheap and nasty?

I know two people who have bought the Challenge one - both returned it.

I have (well, my dad has on near permenant loan at the mo :-) the Wickes
small pneumatic one and it is brilliant. Only 500w but plenty powerful
enough for everything we have thrown at it which includes some concrete
breaking that was pretty tough :-)

Its a rebadged Kress and is just over 100 quid I think. Dunno if this is
good value now - it certainly wasn't bad a few years back!

Darren

In article ,
Gnube wrote:
I always start with hammer off. If you hit mortar (particularly
lime mortar) with SDS hammer on, you end up with a hole 3 times
broader and 10 times deeper than you intended in less than a
millisecond ;-)

Also, I've had the occasional soft brick which drills fine without
hammer, but shatters to a thousand pieces if an SDS hammer drill
bit touches it.

Actually, you've just made me wonder if on buying an SDS, might it be
better off using the old hammer first, and switch to SDS when the
going gets too tough for it. The thought I'm having is that you'd get
it started gentler and possibly more accurate based on your comment
above, and presumably conserve the life of both tools a little better
too. Granted it'd be a bit more messing about to do it though.

An SDS drill won't engage the 'hammer' action without pressure. So if
you're unsure how hard the masonry is, start with gentle pressure. If the
drill goes in as it will in soft material it won't damage anything.

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
The price you paid for it is about right Andrew, for a good one around
the house, and should last you a good long while. We picked up two,
110v DeWalt SDS guns and I think I'd have been better with my B&Q one
for the job they did.

I've had a DW 566 for some time now - and paid much more than the current
price - and it's as near perfect as any power tool I possess. Perhaps
they've reduced the quality as well as the price?

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

I keep reading all these mentions of SDS drills and I still don't
know how an SDS drill is different from my elderly B&D Hammer
thingy. Can someone please enlighten me of the ways in which SDS
differs...

SDS bits have channels in the side. You insert the bit into the drill by
simple pushing it into the chuck while holding a collar back. The channels
hold the drill very firmly so it doesn't slip. However, the bit is able to
slide up and down in the chuck a fair amount, even if it can't slip
sideways. The hammer action works by literally hammering the end of the bit,
which is very effective because the sliding action means that the chuck can
remain firmly attached to the motor whilst the bit flies forwards and
backwards. A traditional "hammer" drill can't do this because the bit is
firmly attached to the chuck, so it just wobbles it a bit from side to side,
which is totally pants in comparison.

Because the hammer action really does hammer the bit (quite hard if you push
it) and is independent of the rotation action, it is usally possible to turn
rotation off and put a chisel bit it. This produces a very useful demolition
and chasing device!

Christian.

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
The price you paid for it is about right Andrew, for a good one around
the house, and should last you a good long while. We picked up two,
110v DeWalt SDS guns and I think I'd have been better with my B&Q one
for the job they did.

I've had a DW 566 for some time now - and paid much more than the current
price - and it's as near perfect as any power tool I possess. Perhaps
they've reduced the quality as well as the price?



I think they have reduced everything Dave. The older ones we've had were
great, really lived up to their reputation, that's why we went back for more
after the years that the first ones lasted, but the ones we got last year
were really poor in their power output. The build quality didn't feel right
for an old style DeWalt, and they just sucked, really poor results with
them.

"dmc" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Graeme wrote:

I see that Argos list two, a Bosch PBH2200RE SDS Drill, and Challenge
Pro SDS Rotary Hammer Drill Kit. Prices UKP 100 and 25 respectively.
Who are Challenge? Cheap and nasty?

I know two people who have bought the Challenge one - both returned it.

I have (well, my dad has on near permenant loan at the mo :-) the Wickes
small pneumatic one and it is brilliant. Only 500w but plenty powerful
enough for everything we have thrown at it which includes some concrete
breaking that was pretty tough :-)

Its a rebadged Kress and is just over 100 quid I think. Dunno if this is
good value now - it certainly wasn't bad a few years back!

Darren


I like the Kress make. I've had plenty of shots with them and they do "do
the job" They don't cost as much as the better known brands, but they
should be given what's due for their quality. Really good buy one of those.

In message , Christian
McArdle writes
Can someone please enlighten me of the ways in which SDS
differs...

SDS bits have channels in the side.
snip

Many thanks Christian.

--
dave @ stejonda

Andrew McKay writes:
I now know that my Christmas present list should have had an SDS drill
on it years ago......to anyone reading this who hasn't used an SDS
drill before I suggest you start dropping hints to she who must be
obeyed around now to make sure Santa remembers

My brand new Hitachi DH24PC is sitting on the desk next to me as I
write 8^)

Probably overkill for my needs, but the juicy staff-discount was too
good to resist. Can't wait to get home and find something to
drill/demolish!

Ben

--
Ben Edgington
Note that email to is discarded. However,
mail to "ben" at this address may be read by a human being.
http://www.edginet.org/

Christian McArdle wrote:
A traditional "hammer" drill can't do this because the bit is
firmly attached to the chuck, so it just wobbles it a bit from
side to side, which is totally pants in comparison.

The bit in a hammer drill should not wobble from side to side.
Yours sounds broken, or worn out.


__________________________________________________ ______________
Sent via the PAXemail system at paxemail.com

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:

I like the Kress make. I've had plenty of shots with them and they do "do
the job" They don't cost as much as the better known brands, but they
should be given what's due for their quality. Really good buy one of those.


Indeed.

The Wickes ones are even better buy - Kress quality at even less-than-Kress
prices. Certainly doesn't seem any cuts made to hit the lower price...

Darren

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
The hammer action works by literally hammering the end of the bit, which
is very effective because the sliding action means that the chuck can
remain firmly attached to the motor whilst the bit flies forwards and
backwards. A traditional "hammer" drill can't do this because the bit is
firmly attached to the chuck, so it just wobbles it a bit from side to
side, which is totally pants in comparison.

On my normal hammer drill, the whole chuck assembly goes in and out.

I reckon SDS works better in 3 ways:-

The lower mass of the drill against a drill/chuck combination makes the
impact greater even if the 'hammer' were the same.

The impact mechanism is better - a hammer drill uses a ramp mechanism,
and there's a limit to the acceleration that can be achieved. IIRC, SDS
uses a pneumatic system.

The SDS bit can't slip even slightly in a rotary direction.

Feel free to add or subtract. ;-)

--
*Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave @ stejonda wrote:
I keep reading all these mentions of SDS drills and I still don't know
how an SDS drill is different from my elderly B&D Hammer thingy. Can
someone please enlighten me of the ways in which SDS differs...

They have a larger hammer inside them.


Yeah, the little guy inside an SDS drill is a lot stronger than the ones
they put inside an ordinary drill, and they've got bigger hammers. They're
that hard, that they eat masonry dust and drink molten grease. That's why
the British ones are a lot better than most of the foreign makes. :-))


--
*He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn


---
BigWallop

http://basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"Dave Plowman" wrote in message

I reckon SDS works better in 3 ways:-

The lower mass of the drill against a drill/chuck combination makes the
impact greater even if the 'hammer' were the same.

The impact mechanism is better - a hammer drill uses a ramp mechanism,
and there's a limit to the acceleration that can be achieved. IIRC, SDS
uses a pneumatic system.

The SDS bit can't slip even slightly in a rotary direction.

Feel free to add or subtract. ;-)

Excellent point. Had to laugh at yet more powerful, sorry yet more cells,
30V cordless keyless chuck drill being demoed live on QVC a week or so ago.
Couldn't drill the concrete or cast iron because the bit kept sticking even
after attempt at really tightening chuck. Quick cut to VT. A mid-range SDS
drill can be had for about the same cost.

Alan

Graeme wrote in message ...
In message , Andrew McKay
writes

I now know that my Christmas present list should have had an SDS drill
on it years ago......to anyone reading this who hasn't used an SDS
drill before I suggest you start dropping hints to she who must be
obeyed around now to make sure Santa remembers

OK, OK, I'm convinced :-)

Since moving to NE Scotland, where our walls are solid granite, drilling
a hole with a standard B&D hammer drill is a joke. Presumably an SDS
drill would cope, without problems?

I see that Argos list two, a Bosch PBH2200RE SDS Drill, and Challenge
Pro SDS Rotary Hammer Drill Kit. Prices UKP 100 and 25 respectively.
Who are Challenge? Cheap and nasty?

I bought the Bosch and I'm well pleased with it. I find the slow start
is useful but others makes may have this too. It's heavier than my old
B&D hammer but has two handles so overall I find it better to work
with. It's reversible so I even used it as a screwdriver when flooring
the loft.

Andrew

In message , BigWallop
writes
"Graeme" wrote in message
...

I see that Argos list two, a Bosch PBH2200RE SDS Drill, and Challenge
Pro SDS Rotary Hammer Drill Kit. Prices UKP 100 and 25 respectively.
Who are Challenge? Cheap and nasty?

Steer well clear of Challenge Graeme, it isn't worth even the price they
want for it. A friend got one just about a month ago and it's broken
already, I think the chuck has lost its grip, and the guarantee states that,
literally, it shouldn't be used to drill hard masonry. So that should tell
you a bit about it.

Great, thanks. It did look too good to be true - SDS drill and various
accessories for twenty five quid.
--
Graeme

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:18:20 +0100, "Gripfill John"
wrote:

Oh-Oh, It's only just July and we have our first mention of Sant.... can't
even bring myself to say it!

Well you do have to start dropping those hints early....

And especially if 'er indoors needs to so some secretive research to
find out exactly what an SDS drill is all about.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:30:56 +0100, Andrew McKay
wrote:

And especially if 'er indoors needs to so some secretive research to
find out exactly what an SDS drill is all about.

And talking about 'er indoors I should add that it would probably be a
good idea to keep the SDS drill under lock and key. My wife decided
she needed a pair of pliers to tighten up a small nut, so I wasn't
around and she found a pair in my toolbox.

Unfortunately she figured that my sharpest pair of electronic
sidecutters was what she was after. Blunted the edges of those
sidecutters. Grr.....

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

In article ,
Andrew McKay wrote:
And talking about 'er indoors I should add that it would probably be a
good idea to keep the SDS drill under lock and key. My wife decided
she needed a pair of pliers to tighten up a small nut, so I wasn't
around and she found a pair in my toolbox.

Unfortunately she figured that my sharpest pair of electronic
sidecutters was what she was after. Blunted the edges of those
sidecutters. Grr.....

Heh heh - I remember my mother deciding to lift the stair carpet for the
decorators. It was held on by those flip down brackets at either side of
each tread, but she wanted the treads painted behind them. And used my
'best' screwdriver. Which was my best wood chisel.

In case you're wondering why she just didn't ask me or father to do it -
he was at work and I was at school. And nothing waited for mother.

--
*Why doesn't Tarzan have a beard? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Gripfill John" wrote
| Oh-Oh, It's only just July and we have our first mention of Sant....
| can't even bring myself to say it!

QVC's telly guide (stars 30th June) lists a full day of C'mas Shop on
Thursday 24th July.

Best get those requests for useful presents in early before the present
budget is all spent on a George Foreman Electric Sock Press or whatever it
is they'll be selling.

Owain

In message , Dave Plowman
writes
In article ,
Andrew McKay wrote:
And talking about 'er indoors I should add that it would probably be a
good idea to keep the SDS drill under lock and key. My wife decided
she needed a pair of pliers to tighten up a small nut, so I wasn't
around and she found a pair in my toolbox.

Unfortunately she figured that my sharpest pair of electronic
sidecutters was what she was after. Blunted the edges of those
sidecutters. Grr.....

Heh heh - I remember my mother deciding to lift the stair carpet for the
decorators. It was held on by those flip down brackets at either side of
each tread, but she wanted the treads painted behind them. And used my
'best' screwdriver. Which was my best wood chisel.

In case you're wondering why she just didn't ask me or father to do it -
he was at work and I was at school. And nothing waited for mother.

She was prolly getting you back for the time you destroyed her best
dressmaking scissors when you were a kid
--
geoff

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:04:38 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote:

Heh heh - I remember my mother deciding to lift the stair carpet for the
decorators. It was held on by those flip down brackets at either side of
each tread, but she wanted the treads painted behind them. And used my
'best' screwdriver. Which was my best wood chisel.

I can better that one! When I was young (I suppose about 12) our next
door neighbour popped round and asked if he could borrow a chisel. Dad
was in the RAF so wasn't around, so without thinking further I sorted
out a nice wood chisel from Dads toolbox.

The next day the neighbour returned the chisel which looked as though
it might have seen better days. The neighbour explained that he'd
managed to knock down his brick-partitioned parlour and thanked me for
loaning the chisel. Obviously he'd wanted a cold chisel, not a wood
chisel.

I was not popular with Dad when he found out

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk