what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

TIA
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

I'd say no. But clearly it's a grey area. What is anyone going to do
about it anyway?

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Very complex area. Are we talking footways here and is this a footway which
is adopted or is it just a right of way, ie, not a made up surface
maintained by an authority. Lots of local by laws govern this kind of thing
and so it can be very difficult to sort it out. If its only temporary and
they have left a feasible alternative route then I doubt there is much you
can do.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

TIA
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Mike Barnes Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

I'd say no. But clearly it's a grey area. What is anyone going to do
about it anyway?


Complain to the council ;-)

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 23/07/2016 08:06, jim wrote:
Mike Barnes Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

I'd say no. But clearly it's a grey area. What is anyone going to do
about it anyway?


Complain to the council ;-)

That the persons responsible for the wall did not apply for a temporary
closure of the RoW - at a cost IIRC of several hundred pounds to them
and even more inconvenience to users?


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 22-Jul-16 11:28 PM, jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

Is it a private RoW or a Public RoW? If private, the test for
obstruction is whether or not there is a substantial interference to its
use. If public, the Council can demand the removal of even a temporary
obstruction and remove it themselves if that is not done. In either
case, the remedy is likely to take a lot longer to implement than the
wall repairs.


--
--

Colin Bignell

"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
Mike Barnes Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

I'd say no. But clearly it's a grey area. What is anyone going to do
about it anyway?


Complain to the council ;-)

Do you know who is complaining?



--
Adam

On 23/07/16 09:36, jim wrote:
Nightjar Wrote in message:
On 22-Jul-16 11:28 PM, jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

Is it a private RoW or a Public RoW? If private, the test for
obstruction is whether or not there is a substantial interference to its
use. If public, the Council can demand the removal of even a temporary
obstruction and remove it themselves if that is not done. In either
case, the remedy is likely to take a lot longer to implement than the
wall repairs.



The alleged obstruction is typically odd mornings/afternoons
where
2 blokes, a cement mixer and associated tackle are building. When
they aren't there everything is taken away.

When traffic comes along, (rarely as they avoid weekends & bank
hols) they turn off the mixer as necessary /on request, move
anything in the way, chat to and smile at the passersby.....

Someone has complained of obstruction to the council....

A half decent council will have a busy Rights of Way officer who is used
to dismissing malicious complaints and timewasters and has more serious
things to spend time on.

Tim w

On 23/07/16 09:36, jim wrote:

The alleged obstruction is typically odd mornings/afternoons
where
2 blokes, a cement mixer and associated tackle are building. When
they aren't there everything is taken away.

When traffic comes along, (rarely as they avoid weekends & bank
hols) they turn off the mixer as necessary /on request, move
anything in the way, chat to and smile at the passersby.....

Someone has complained of obstruction to the council....


Given that the blokes are obviously very careful to be extremely aware
of maintaining a clear way as much as possible, here's my expert legal
opinion:


"Someone" is a busy body curtain twitching tw*at, who would a) complain
if a tree was overhanging the footway; b) would complain when the
footway was blocked for an hour whilst a tree surgeon fixed the tree.

On 23/07/16 09:37, jim wrote:
"ARW" Wrote in message:
"jim" k wrote in message

Complain to the council ;-)

Do you know who is complaining?


We have a good idea....


Build a scaffold cage around their car one night. Then they'll
understand what "obstruction" means...

Nightjar Wrote in message:
On 22-Jul-16 11:28 PM, jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

Is it a private RoW or a Public RoW? If private, the test for
obstruction is whether or not there is a substantial interference to its
use. If public, the Council can demand the removal of even a temporary
obstruction and remove it themselves if that is not done. In either
case, the remedy is likely to take a lot longer to implement than the
wall repairs.



The alleged obstruction is typically odd mornings/afternoonswhere
2 blokes, a cement mixer and associated tackle are building. When
they aren't there everything is taken away.

When traffic comes along, (rarely as they avoid weekends & bank
hols) they turn off the mixer as necessary /on request, move
anything in the way, chat to and smile at the passersby.....

Someone has complained of obstruction to the council....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"ARW" Wrote in message:
"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
Mike Barnes Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

I'd say no. But clearly it's a grey area. What is anyone going to do
about it anyway?


Complain to the council ;-)

Do you know who is complaining?


We have a good idea....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 23/07/2016 08:06, jim wrote:
Mike Barnes Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

I'd say no. But clearly it's a grey area. What is anyone going to do
about it anyway?


Complain to the council ;-)

That the persons responsible for the wall did not apply for a temporary
closure of the RoW - at a cost IIRC of several hundred pounds to them and
even more inconvenience to users?


I believe from Jim's post that it is not closed - just slightly obstructed.

Probably a fat **** complaining about having to squeeze through a gap that 2
normal people could pass through side by side without a problem.

--
Adam

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 23/07/16 09:37, jim wrote:
"ARW" Wrote in message:
"jim" k wrote in message

Complain to the council ;-)

Do you know who is complaining?


We have a good idea....


Build a scaffold cage around their car one night. Then they'll understand
what "obstruction" means...



Too much like hard work - dog **** through their letter box is much easier.

And if you want to stop their car moving then expanding foam up the exhaust
is the easy way. A **** of course would just remove all the wheel nuts - it
will move but not move far.


--
Adam

On Saturday, 23 July 2016 09:36:57 UTC+1, jim wrote:
When traffic comes along, (rarely as they avoid weekends & bank
hols) they turn off the mixer as necessary /on request, move
anything in the way, chat to and smile at the passersby.....

'Traffic' suggests this is on a public road of some type, whether highway or byway, in which case obstructing any part of the road would probably require council permission, a temporary traffic order, and signage and traffic control to comply with the streetworks regulations.

Whether the council will get round to doing anything ... the chaps might be better working on weekends and bank holidays when council officers tend not to be working.

Owain

On 23/07/2016 12:12, wrote:
On Saturday, 23 July 2016 09:36:57 UTC+1, jim wrote:
When traffic comes along, (rarely as they avoid weekends & bank
hols) they turn off the mixer as necessary /on request, move
anything in the way, chat to and smile at the passersby.....

'Traffic' suggests this is on a public road of some type, whether highway or byway, in which case obstructing any part of the road would probably require council permission, a temporary traffic order, and signage and traffic control to comply with the streetworks regulations.


And in this case a manually operated traffic light which would remain
red until the workmen removed the mixer etc.out of the way - hence a
longer time waiting.

If the workmen have to stop work every time a car passes it suggests
this is a little used ROW and any official receiving a complaint about
the work should apply common sense rules.

The complainer needs to think himself lucky if these works a short term,
around my way Transco close or seriously restrict major RoW for months
on end causing traffic problems in the surrounding areas.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sat, 23 Jul 2016 12:48:37 +0100, alan_m wrote:

On 23/07/2016 12:12, wrote:
On Saturday, 23 July 2016 09:36:57 UTC+1, jim wrote:
When traffic comes along, (rarely as they avoid weekends & bank
hols) they turn off the mixer as necessary /on request, move anything
in the way, chat to and smile at the passersby.....


The complainer needs to think himself lucky if these works a short term,
around my way Transco close or seriously restrict major RoW for months
on end causing traffic problems in the surrounding areas.

Hmm, perhaps the solution is to obtain a temporary closure order for, say
6 months, and to then leave piles of rubble across the Row. That way the
most inconvenience is caused to the complainant whilst complying with the
letter of the law!

Of course, any reasonable person can be accommodated by moving any
necessary obstructions as outlined in first para above.

Wrote in message:
On Saturday, 23 July 2016 09:36:57 UTC+1, jim wrote:
When traffic comes along, (rarely as they avoid weekends & bank
hols) they turn off the mixer as necessary /on request, move
anything in the way, chat to and smile at the passersby.....

'Traffic' suggests this is on a public road of some type, whether highway or byway, in which case obstructing any part of the road would probably require council permission, a temporary traffic order, and signage and traffic control to comply with the streetworks regulations.

Whether the council will get round to doing anything ... the chaps might be better working on weekends and bank holidays when council officers tend not to be working.

Owain


Traffic means anything legitimate without an engine.

If it was a road I'd have called it a road;-)

Spades are spades
Shovels are shovels
**** stirrers are **** stirrers
Etc
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"ARW" Wrote in message:
"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 23/07/2016 08:06, jim wrote:
Mike Barnes Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

what constitutes an "obstruction" on a RoW ?

Does a couple of people repairing a wall at the side of a RoW
reasonably constitute an obstruction if legitimate RoW users can
pass by with care?

I'd say no. But clearly it's a grey area. What is anyone going to do
about it anyway?


Complain to the council ;-)

That the persons responsible for the wall did not apply for a temporary
closure of the RoW - at a cost IIRC of several hundred pounds to them and
even more inconvenience to users?


I believe from Jim's post that it is not closed - just slightly obstructed.


Indeed. On a very temporary basis from week to week as
time/weather/finances allows.

Probably a fat **** complaining about having to squeeze through a gap that 2
normal people could pass through side by side without a problem.

Or an old two faced tw?t who likes to try & drop people in the ****....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sat, 23 Jul 2016 08:10:25 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Very complex area. Are we talking footways here and is this a footway which
is adopted or is it just a right of way, ie, not a made up surface
maintained by an authority. Lots of local by laws govern this kind of thing
and so it can be very difficult to sort it out. If its only temporary and
they have left a feasible alternative route then I doubt there is much you
can do.
Brian

A footway isn't a RoW but the so-called 'pavement' and is part of the
highway (along with carriageway and verge), IIRC from a session with the
local RoW Officer.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 7/23/2016 3:46 PM, jim wrote:

Indeed. On a very temporary basis from week to week as
time/weather/finances allows.

To give the other side for a second, there's a *lot* of building
activity at the moment in our road. It is bloody annoying.

The current state of play is:

2 doors down, tenants are just leaving, so the house can be demolished
and new one built with basement excavation.

2 doors down from that, they've done the demolition and the excavation,
and started on the rebuild.

Next door to that, partial demolition and major excavation work.

Opposite that, partial demolition, but no excavation.

Next door to us, the house is for sale, with planning permission for a
demolition, massive excavation and rebuild job. So, I'm really looking
forward to that.

All these involve heavy lorries driven across the pavement, making ruts
1 foot deep. They'll frequently block the pavement all day, and the
pedestrians like me can just **** off into the road.

As I said, it's bloody annoying. There's no attempt at decency, just
whatever's cheapest and easiest for the builders. As things currently
are, I can't take the dog for a walk round the block. And that's been
going on for a year so far. One of them left their site with a 15 foot
excavation completely open over one weekend.

In your case, instead of just fixing your wall in one go, you're just
doing it as it suits you. Making it take ages, presumably. I can see why
your neighbour's getting fed up. For all you know, half a dozen of them
may have complained.

Oh, I feel better now I've had a good rant!

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 7/23/2016 3:46 PM, jim wrote:

Indeed. On a very temporary basis from week to week as
time/weather/finances allows.

To give the other side for a second, there's a *lot* of building activity
at the moment in our road. It is bloody annoying.

The current state of play is:

2 doors down, tenants are just leaving, so the house can be demolished and
new one built with basement excavation.

2 doors down from that, they've done the demolition and the excavation,
and started on the rebuild.

Next door to that, partial demolition and major excavation work.

Opposite that, partial demolition, but no excavation.

Next door to us, the house is for sale, with planning permission for a
demolition, massive excavation and rebuild job. So, I'm really looking
forward to that.

All these involve heavy lorries driven across the pavement, making ruts 1
foot deep. They'll frequently block the pavement all day, and the
pedestrians like me can just **** off into the road.

As I said, it's bloody annoying. There's no attempt at decency, just
whatever's cheapest and easiest for the builders. As things currently are,
I can't take the dog for a walk round the block. And that's been going on
for a year so far. One of them left their site with a 15 foot excavation
completely open over one weekend.

In your case, instead of just fixing your wall in one go, you're just
doing it as it suits you. Making it take ages, presumably. I can see why
your neighbour's getting fed up. For all you know, half a dozen of them
may have complained.

Oh, I feel better now I've had a good rant!


So when are you going to do up (or in this case knock down) your house?

I am not so sure that Jim actually has half a dozen neighbours (although
this work may not be at Jim's).

--
Adam

In article , ARW
wrote:
"GB" wrote in message
...
On 7/23/2016 3:46 PM, jim wrote:

Indeed. On a very temporary basis from week to week as
time/weather/finances allows.

To give the other side for a second, there's a *lot* of building
activity at the moment in our road. It is bloody annoying.

The current state of play is:

2 doors down, tenants are just leaving, so the house can be demolished
and new one built with basement excavation.

2 doors down from that, they've done the demolition and the excavation,
and started on the rebuild.

Next door to that, partial demolition and major excavation work.

Opposite that, partial demolition, but no excavation.

Next door to us, the house is for sale, with planning permission for a
demolition, massive excavation and rebuild job. So, I'm really looking
forward to that.

All these involve heavy lorries driven across the pavement, making ruts
1 foot deep. They'll frequently block the pavement all day, and the
pedestrians like me can just **** off into the road.

As I said, it's bloody annoying. There's no attempt at decency, just
whatever's cheapest and easiest for the builders. As things currently
are, I can't take the dog for a walk round the block. And that's been
going on for a year so far. One of them left their site with a 15 foot
excavation completely open over one weekend.

In your case, instead of just fixing your wall in one go, you're just
doing it as it suits you. Making it take ages, presumably. I can see
why your neighbour's getting fed up. For all you know, half a dozen of
them may have complained.

Oh, I feel better now I've had a good rant!


So when are you going to do up (or in this case knock down) your house?

I am not so sure that Jim actually has half a dozen neighbours (although
this work may not be at Jim's).

we really do have 6 properties which adjoin ours. 3 on one side, 2 at the
end and just one on the other side.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

"charles" wrote in message
...

So when are you going to do up (or in this case knock down) your house?

I am not so sure that Jim actually has half a dozen neighbours (although
this work may not be at Jim's).

we really do have 6 properties which adjoin ours. 3 on one side, 2 at the
end and just one on the other side.


Is Jim fixing your wall?

--
Adam

On 23/07/2016 18:35, GB wrote:
On 7/23/2016 3:46 PM, jim wrote:



To give the other side for a second, there's a *lot* of building
activity at the moment in our road. It is bloody annoying.

I thought that was just the price you pay these days for living in
Chelsea

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-dug-time.html

Oh, I feel better now I've had a good rant!

Therapist buggered off to Necker Island for his hols? bg


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

jim wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Saturday, 23 July 2016 09:36:57 UTC+1, jim wrote:
When traffic comes along, (rarely as they avoid weekends & bank
hols) they turn off the mixer as necessary /on request, move
anything in the way, chat to and smile at the passersby.....

'Traffic' suggests this is on a public road of some type, whether
highway or byway, in which case obstructing any part of the road
would probably require council permission, a temporary traffic
order, and signage and traffic control to comply with the
streetworks regulations.

Whether the council will get round to doing anything ... the chaps
might be better working on weekends and bank holidays when council
officers tend not to be working.

Owain


Traffic means anything legitimate without an engine.

If it was a road I'd have called it a road;-)

Spades are spades
Shovels are shovels
**** stirrers are **** stirrers
Etc

I think you are worrying about nothing.

The council won't entertain such idiots, the wall needs repairing and unless
you can float, you have to stand where you have to stand in order to do what
needs doing

On 7/24/2016 1:31 PM, Robin wrote:
On 23/07/2016 18:35, GB wrote:
On 7/23/2016 3:46 PM, jim wrote:



To give the other side for a second, there's a *lot* of building
activity at the moment in our road. It is bloody annoying.

I thought that was just the price you pay these days for living in
Chelsea

It isn't Chelsea, but it is London. In the suburbs.

It's a pretty simple equation. Say the value of houses in our road is
£600 per sq foot. So, if you start with 1000 sq ft, it's worth £600k.

If you rebuild and end up with 2000 sq ft, it's worth £1200k. It costs
£200 psf to knock down and rebuild, and the building work costs £400k.
So, the profit = £200k.

In fact, the new house is worth a bit more than £1200k, because it's a
shiny new-build, so the profit is actually much higher.

On Saturday, 23 July 2016 11:39:54 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 23/07/16 09:37, jim wrote:
"ARW" Wrote in message:
"jim" k wrote in message

Complain to the council ;-)

Do you know who is complaining?


We have a good idea....


Build a scaffold cage around their car one night. Then they'll understand
what "obstruction" means...



Too much like hard work - dog **** through their letter box is much easier.

And if you want to stop their car moving then expanding foam up the exhaust
is the easy way. A **** of course would just remove all the wheel nuts - it
will move but not move far.

What an incredibly stupid fool you are.

On 24/07/2016 17:07, GB wrote:
On 7/24/2016 1:31 PM, Robin wrote:
On 23/07/2016 18:35, GB wrote:
On 7/23/2016 3:46 PM, jim wrote:



To give the other side for a second, there's a *lot* of building
activity at the moment in our road. It is bloody annoying.

I thought that was just the price you pay these days for living in
Chelsea

It isn't Chelsea, but it is London. In the suburbs.

It's a pretty simple equation. Say the value of houses in our road is
£600 per sq foot. So, if you start with 1000 sq ft, it's worth £600k.

If you rebuild and end up with 2000 sq ft, it's worth £1200k. It costs
£200 psf to knock down and rebuild, and the building work costs £400k.
So, the profit = £200k.

In fact, the new house is worth a bit more than £1200k, because it's a
shiny new-build, so the profit is actually much higher.



OK. I didn't realise it had spread that much beyond Chelsea (and
Bishop's Avenue). Round here it is just loft conversions at about 10
per cent a year since they went permitted development - with side return
extensions catching up fast in the last year or 2.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid