In the loft/come shack I spotted a radio controlled clock I had bought
maybe a decade before - so I thought slap some batteries in and try it.

I think it was an Aldi/Lidl purchase, most likely Aldi....

It made several attempts to receive the time data, but consistently
failed downstairs. On moving it to a better reception position
upstairs, it again made several attempts, but must have got some
reception, because several times it at least showed seconds in the
display, then eventually got a full data set and displayed an 'S'. I'm
wondering if it might be trying to receive the German time signal,
hence the troubles syncing itself? MSF is usually easy to receive here.

There is no name on it, a reset hole in the rear, a very large LCD
digit display, display the temperature C or F, the moons phase,
day/month day. It has four buttons on the front - Set time, up, down
and a C/F button. It can be wall hung or a fold out metal bracket
allows it to stand on a desk.

It has a switch on the rear CET / UK. CET makes it one hour fast and 24
hour clock, UK makes it show UK time, but am/pm 12 hour. I think that
lack of UK with 24 hour format was why it got forgotten.

I wonder if anyone might recognise it.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:42:03 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

In the loft/come shack I spotted a radio controlled clock I had bought
maybe a decade before - so I thought slap some batteries in and try it.

I think it was an Aldi/Lidl purchase, most likely Aldi....

It made several attempts to receive the time data, but consistently
failed downstairs. On moving it to a better reception position
upstairs, it again made several attempts, but must have got some
reception, because several times it at least showed seconds in the
display, then eventually got a full data set and displayed an 'S'. I'm
wondering if it might be trying to receive the German time signal,
hence the troubles syncing itself? MSF is usually easy to receive here.

There is no name on it, a reset hole in the rear, a very large LCD
digit display, display the temperature C or F, the moons phase,
day/month day. It has four buttons on the front - Set time, up, down
and a C/F button. It can be wall hung or a fold out metal bracket
allows it to stand on a desk.

It has a switch on the rear CET / UK. CET makes it one hour fast and 24
hour clock, UK makes it show UK time, but am/pm 12 hour. I think that
lack of UK with 24 hour format was why it got forgotten.

I wonder if anyone might recognise it.

Lidl and Aldi ones are always tuned to DCF77 in my experience.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:28:05 +0100, Graham.
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:42:03 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

In the loft/come shack I spotted a radio controlled clock I had bought
maybe a decade before - so I thought slap some batteries in and try it.

I think it was an Aldi/Lidl purchase, most likely Aldi....


Lidl and Aldi ones are always tuned to DCF77 in my experience.

When we've left the EU, will they still be allowed to receive the
Frankfurt time signal? :-)

Corse not, Merkel is furiously working out how to make them all implode
spectacularly.

Chuckle. I do hope so.
However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between radio
controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one on the pc.
Several seconds quite often. Who is right?
I also have a phone which every so often moves an hour backwards for no
apparent reason.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:28:05 +0100, Graham.
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:42:03 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

In the loft/come shack I spotted a radio controlled clock I had bought
maybe a decade before - so I thought slap some batteries in and try it.

I think it was an Aldi/Lidl purchase, most likely Aldi....


Lidl and Aldi ones are always tuned to DCF77 in my experience.

When we've left the EU, will they still be allowed to receive the
Frankfurt time signal? :-)

--

Chris

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 07:53:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between radio
controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one on the pc.
Several seconds quite often. Who is right?

The DAB clock display should be accurate as it uses a separate data
stream. However, while some receivers show accurate time others
appear to be out by a fixed amount which can be 5-10 seconds adrift.

The separate GMT audio hour "pips" are not accurate on DAB as the
processing delay can be 2-8 seconds.

The radio controlled clock will synchronise with the time reference
(DCF or MSF) once or twice a day, usually at midday/midnight plus or
minus 1 hour. In between these times it relies upon its own internal
clock but shouldn't be out by more than a fraction of a second.

PC internal clocks are (by timekeeping standards) very inaccurate. PC
clock can drift by seconds a day. Modern versions of windows can
synchronise with a time server but by default only do it once a week.
(You can't easily alter this either) so can be out by 10's of seconds.
Using the free Meinberg NNTP software
https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm you can alter the
synchronisation interval to any time.

Time shown on any GPS device will usually be accurate.

So who is right comes down to GPS - always, Radio Controlled clock -
usually to within less than a second, DAB - display - may gave fixed
error, audio time signals always several seconds out.

PC with standard synchronisation, very poor. With Meinberg NNTP and
very short re-synch interval - pretty accurate.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 07:53:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Who is right?

Forgot to say you can check your Mac/PC clock against a time server by
going to Time.is (no www or anything else - just Time.is in a browser
address bar).

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 07:53:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between radio
controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one on the pc.
Several seconds quite often. Who is right?

The DAB clock display should be accurate as it uses a separate data
stream. However, while some receivers show accurate time others
appear to be out by a fixed amount which can be 5-10 seconds adrift.

The separate GMT audio hour "pips" are not accurate on DAB as the
processing delay can be 2-8 seconds.

The radio controlled clock will synchronise with the time reference
(DCF or MSF) once or twice a day, usually at midday/midnight plus or
minus 1 hour. In between these times it relies upon its own internal
clock but shouldn't be out by more than a fraction of a second.

PC internal clocks are (by timekeeping standards) very inaccurate. PC
clock can drift by seconds a day. Modern versions of windows can
synchronise with a time server but by default only do it once a week.
(You can't easily alter this either)

You can actually.

so can be out by 10's of seconds.
Using the free Meinberg NNTP software
https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm you can alter the
synchronisation interval to any time.

Time shown on any GPS device will usually be accurate.

So who is right comes down to GPS - always, Radio Controlled clock -
usually to within less than a second, DAB - display - may gave fixed
error, audio time signals always several seconds out.

PC with standard synchronisation, very poor. With Meinberg NNTP and
very short re-synch interval - pretty accurate.

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
Lidl and Aldi ones are always tuned to DCF77 in my experience.

Central European time isn't much use in the UK. Lidl did once sell a clock
set to that which couldn't be adjusted to BST, etc, though. But only once
that I know of.

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 20:15:53 +1000, MKF wrote:

PC internal clocks are (by timekeeping standards) very inaccurate. PC
clock can drift by seconds a day. Modern versions of windows can
synchronise with a time server but by default only do it once a week.
(You can't easily alter this either)

You can actually.

so can be out by 10's of seconds.
Using the free Meinberg NNTP software
https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm you can alter the
synchronisation interval to any time.


I think you mean NTP, not NNTP!

Yes, I use the Meinberg stuff and have for a long time. I run my own
stratum 3 NTP servers anyway.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Graham. wrote:
Lidl and Aldi ones are always tuned to DCF77 in my experience.

Central European time isn't much use in the UK. Lidl did once sell a clock
set to that which couldn't be adjusted to BST, etc, though. But only once
that I know of.

I bought one from Lidl which could be adjusted and our Village Hall has a
clock using a DCF receiver for the correct time. It's going to be fun if we
move our summer time dates away from the EU ones ;-)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

Chris Hogg a écrit :
Apparently not. Mine's reading BST ATM, and a little 'S' comes up on
the display to distinguish when it's showing BST from GMT. The change
is automatic, with no input from me. I presume they're made and set up
for the UK market. Frankfurt time is currently 1 hour ahead of BST.

Perhaps the S on mine means BST then, rather than the in Sync which I
assumed.

MSF sends GMT, but an extra bit indicates whether it is currently GMT
or BST.

I have not explored the German data, but no reason why it would be any
different and from that the clock can work out the correct UK offset.

I thought that maybe the CET/UK switch on the rear, might switch it
from MSF to Frankfurt reception. It obviously doesn't, because the
displayed time changes instantly rather than taking a while to grab
fresh data.

Brian Gaff a écrit :
Chuckle. I do hope so.
However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between radio
controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one on the pc.
Several seconds quite often. Who is right?
I also have a phone which every so often moves an hour backwards for no
apparent reason.

My (RC) watch, RC clocks, phone and computers time are always in sync,
unless they have failed to for some reason to sync for several days.

Your PC does need to be running, when it decides it ought to grab fresh
data from a time server - the default is once per day, but you can
adjust that to as frequent as 10minutes or so with a little utility.

Your PC runs tests to determine the network delays to the time server,
then works out how to offset to get an accurate time.

Your phone may need a setting to be made, to allow it it sync via the
cell network.

Between resyncs, they all rely upon a crystal controlled timebase to
keep the clock accurate, though some can be of quite poor accuracy.

On 22 Jul 2016 10:49:45 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

I think you mean NTP, not NNTP!

Indeed, I blame the cat on the keyboard.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between radio
controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one on the pc.
Several seconds quite often. Who is right?

Any digitally based transmission system has latency. Each time the signal
is processed it is delayed - even slightly. DAB is a particularly bad
offender - perhaps through using early technology.

A radio controlled clock should be pretty accurate at the time of
synchronisation. If the server is. I'd say.

--
*When blondes have more fun, do they know it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between
radio controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one
on the pc. Several seconds quite often. Who is right?

Any digitally based transmission system has latency.

But it is perfectly possible to compensate for that.

Each time the signal is processed it is delayed - even slightly. DAB is
a particularly bad offender - perhaps through using early technology.

A radio controlled clock should be pretty accurate at
the time of synchronisation. If the server is. I'd say.

time.is says that my smartphone is spot on. The PC is
a couple of seconds out and I have that synch daily.

En el artículo , Brian Gaff
escribió:

However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between radio
controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one on the pc.
Several seconds quite often. Who is right?

I'd say the radio clock is going to be the most accurate one.

I also have a phone which every so often moves an hour backwards for no
apparent reason.

Your phone is getting its time from the network operator. The phone has
changed cells to one owned by an operator which is sending the incorrect
time. I see this a lot in Spain, and it's a pain in the arse as you
can't rely on your phone to be telling you the right time.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

En el artículo , MKF
escribió:

[crapectomy]

**** off, Rod.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Any digitally based transmission system has latency.

But it is perfectly possible to compensate for that.

No it isn't. If you'd know if you had any experience of digital
microphones. Which aren't the norm for that very reason. Only some radio
mics where absolute phase stability may not matter.

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

Any digitally based transmission system has latency.

But it is perfectly possible to compensate for that.

No it isn't.

Corse it is, that's what NTP does.

If you'd know if you had any experience of digital microphones.

Irrelevant to what can be done with digital time synchronisation.

Which aren't the norm for that very reason. Only some
radio mics where absolute phase stability may not matter.

Irrelevant to what can be done with digital time synchronisation.

Rod Speed a écrit :
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between radio
controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one on the pc.
Several seconds quite often. Who is right?

Any digitally based transmission system has latency.

But it is perfectly possible to compensate for that.

Each time the signal is processed it is delayed - even slightly. DAB is a
particularly bad offender - perhaps through using early technology.

A radio controlled clock should be pretty accurate at the time of
synchronisation. If the server is. I'd say.

time.is says that my smartphone is spot on. The PC is a couple of seconds out
and I have that synch daily.

Atomic.exe is a run once utility, which allows you to change of
frequently Windows checks in with a time server. Once the frequency is
set, it remains set.

Rod Speed a écrit :
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

Any digitally based transmission system has latency.

But it is perfectly possible to compensate for that.

No it isn't.

Corse it is, that's what NTP does.

When Windows does its NTP time check, it checks the delays through the
network several times before actually setting your RTC - using an
offset to take care of the average network delay.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
Rod Speed a écrit :
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

However, I often have a laugh at the difference in time between radio
controlled clock, DAB clock and the internet bassed one on the pc.
Several seconds quite often. Who is right?

Any digitally based transmission system has latency.

But it is perfectly possible to compensate for that.

Each time the signal is processed it is delayed - even slightly. DAB is
a particularly bad offender - perhaps through using early technology.

A radio controlled clock should be pretty accurate at the time of
synchronisation. If the server is. I'd say.

time.is says that my smartphone is spot on. The PC is a couple of seconds
out and I have that synch daily.

Atomic.exe is a run once utility, which allows you to change of frequently
Windows checks in with a time server. Once the frequency is set, it
remains set.

I use http://www.pretentiousname.com/timesync/ with Win7.

Harry Bloomfield wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

Any digitally based transmission system has latency.

But it is perfectly possible to compensate for that.

No it isn't.

Corse it is, that's what NTP does.

When Windows does its NTP time check, it checks the delays
through the network several times before actually setting your
RTC - using an offset to take care of the average network delay.

Yeah, that's what I meant.