http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.

Just wait and see...

--
*I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
harry wrote

http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals
with all the other countries in the world, we've been told,

Much easier than with the EU where any since
country with a vested interest can veto the deal.

Even if Scotland and NI do stay in Britain with it no
longer in the EU, they don’t get to veto any trade
deal. They don’t even get to veto leaving the EU.

Just wait and see...

See Britain do fine outside the EU, just like all of the USA,
China, India, Taiwan, Canada, Australia etc etc etc do.

On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when it
was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the EU
the trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that the
UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when it was
ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the EU the
trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if that
were to be the case.

(Whether we might want to, or not, is another matter)

tim

In article ,
tim... wrote:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when
it was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the
EU the trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if
that were to be the case.

(Whether we might want to, or not, is another matter)

The thing so many don't seem to appreciate is just how long trade deals
take to set up. You're talking about 5 years plus of intensive
negotiations. And if anything important changes in either country's
circumstances (like a deal with another country), you may well have to
start again. It is simply not just a handshake over a pint one night.

Oh - May has admitted the UK simply doesn't have anything like enough
trained negotiators for new trade deals. Not surprising, as they've all
had to be done in conjunction with the EU before. And doing a deal with
inexperience negotiators is a sure way to get stitched up.

I find it laughable just how naive so many are on here. That they reckon
the entire world is queueing up to be nice to the UK in any deals.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 22/07/2016 11:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I find it laughable just how naive so many are on here. That they reckon
the entire world is queueing up to be nice to the UK in any deals.


You don't necessarily need a deal to buy/sell to trade with the rest of
the world.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Friday, 22 July 2016 11:49:17 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when
it was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the
EU the trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if
that were to be the case.

(Whether we might want to, or not, is another matter)

The thing so many don't seem to appreciate is just how long trade deals
take to set up. You're talking about 5 years plus of intensive
negotiations. And if anything important changes in either country's
circumstances (like a deal with another country), you may well have to
start again. It is simply not just a handshake over a pint one night.

Oh - May has admitted the UK simply doesn't have anything like enough
trained negotiators for new trade deals. Not surprising, as they've all
had to be done in conjunction with the EU before. And doing a deal with
inexperience negotiators is a sure way to get stitched up.

I find it laughable just how naive so many are on here. That they reckon
the entire world is queueing up to be nice to the UK in any deals.



It takes a long time because the EUSSR is an idiot organisation of 27 countries.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
tim... wrote
alan_m wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
harry wrote:

http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.

Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when
it was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the
EU the trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally
withdrawing from it, if that were to be the case.

(Whether we might want to, or not, is another matter)

The thing so many don't seem to appreciate
is just how long trade deals take to set up.

Don’t need any trade deals initially. Britain is free to trade under
the WTO rules just like all of the USA, India, China, Korea, Taiwan,
Bangladesh, Canada, Australia etc etc etc all do fine right now.
That is the whole point of the WTO rules.

You're talking about 5 years plus of intensive negotiations.

Clearly the reason they take a while is because
there is no great urgency about them. And they
arent in fact all that intensive either.

And if anything important changes in either country's
circumstances (like a deal with another country), you
may well have to start again.

That doesn’t happen often.

It is simply not just a handshake over a pint one night.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

Oh - May has admitted the UK simply doesn't have anything
like enough trained negotiators for new trade deals.

That is very arguable given that there have been plenty of
Brits doing that for the EU. Less clear what they will chose
to do with Britain leaving the EU, return to Britain and keep
doing that stuff for Britain or stay in the EU and give up on
Britain because they like the EU more than they do Britain.

Not surprising, as they've all had to be
done in conjunction with the EU before.

In fact it was often Brits working for the EU doing it.

And doing a deal with inexperience negotiators
is a sure way to get stitched up.

They wouldn’t be inexperience negotiators
if they were the ones doing it for the EU.

And no one can get stitched up when whatever has got agreed
still has to be legislated by the respective parliaments.

I find it laughable just how naive so many are on here. That they reckon
the entire world is queueing up to be nice to the UK in any deals.

No one has ever said anything like that, you silly little pathological liar.

Commonwealth countrys would obviously like to see a return to the
sort of deal that they had with Britain before it joined the EEC and
there would be no negotiation needed on that, just decide to do it.

And you keep ignoring the fact that Britain doesn’t need any deals
at all, its free to trade under the WTO rules, just like all of the USA,
India, China, Korea, Taiwan, Bangladesh, Canada, Australia etc etc
etc all do fine right now.

On Friday, 22 July 2016 11:49:17 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:

http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when
it was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the
EU the trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if
that were to be the case.

(Whether we might want to, or not, is another matter)

I seriously hope we don't agree to a trade deal that exposes us to the level of stupidity of CETA.

The thing so many don't seem to appreciate is just how long trade deals
take to set up. You're talking about 5 years plus of intensive
negotiations. And if anything important changes in either country's
circumstances (like a deal with another country), you may well have to
start again. It is simply not just a handshake over a pint one night.

Oh - May has admitted the UK simply doesn't have anything like enough
trained negotiators for new trade deals. Not surprising, as they've all
had to be done in conjunction with the EU before. And doing a deal with
inexperience negotiators is a sure way to get stitched up.

Usually when we're short of skilled labour we hire it from abroad

I find it laughable just how naive so many are on here. That they reckon
the entire world is queueing up to be nice to the UK in any deals.

I don't recall anyone saying that. It's just in everyone's interest to trade internationally, so there is a desire to do so.


NT

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all
the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the
EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when
it was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the
EU the trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if
that were to be the case.

(Whether we might want to, or not, is another matter)

The thing so many don't seem to appreciate is just how long trade deals
take to set up.

That may be true of the MITS, it isn't true of the people arguing against
you here

tim

On 22/07/2016 11:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when
it was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the
EU the trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if
that were to be the case.

(Whether we might want to, or not, is another matter)

The thing so many don't seem to appreciate is just how long trade deals
take to set up. You're talking about 5 years plus of intensive
negotiations. And if anything important changes in either country's
circumstances (like a deal with another country), you may well have to
start again. It is simply not just a handshake over a pint one night.

Oh - May has admitted the UK simply doesn't have anything like enough
trained negotiators for new trade deals. Not surprising, as they've all
had to be done in conjunction with the EU before. And doing a deal with
inexperience negotiators is a sure way to get stitched up.

I find it laughable just how naive so many are on here. That they reckon
the entire world is queueing up to be nice to the UK in any deals.

I don't think anyone is under any delusion that it will not take
significant time and effort. However, if done right, there is no reason
the final result can't be as good or better than what the EU has
achieved thus far.

The key point is there is no point wasting time and energy worrying
about all the reasons we can't achieve the results the nation needs,
when it would be far more productive working out the best way to
actually go out and get them.

So, there are not enough negotiators? Work out how to fix the problem,
how to recruit experienced negotiators from the private sector - people
with years of experience of international negotiations. Start training
the brightest and the best selected from the ranks of the civil service.
Start making use of our remaining links to the commonwealth, and former
colonies. Behave like an entrepreneurial outward looking nation again.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 22 July 2016 11:49:17 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when
it was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the
EU the trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if
that were to be the case.

(Whether we might want to, or not, is another matter)

The thing so many don't seem to appreciate is just how long trade deals
take to set up. You're talking about 5 years plus of intensive
negotiations.

That's what you are told yes. Do you believe it, it seems yes.

Why do we need trade deals ?

The USA buys German cars they do not have a trade deal between germany and USA.
We can buy German cars we have a trade deal.

Which? the consumser mag was asking why those that have brought german cars in teh USA are getting compenstion of $7k per car from the recent fiddling but as yet the UK car aowners arenl;t geting a refund.


And if anything important changes in either country's
circumstances (like a deal with another country), you may well have to
start again. It is simply not just a handshake over a pint one night.

Like here if I could have a job where I'd be allowed to take 5+ years to get a key cut then that's the job I'd take too.
The peolpe making these decision son on relativel vast saleries and want to keep therio jobs for as long as possible, you can't really believ it takes 5 years.
Lets see if it will really take German car manufacors 5 years to do a deal with those that want to buy their cars.


Oh - May has admitted the UK simply doesn't have anything like enough
trained negotiators for new trade deals. Not surprising, as they've all
had to be done in conjunction with the EU before. And doing a deal with
inexperience negotiators is a sure way to get stitched up.

I'd let germany set whatever price they wanted on their cars.
If they want to charge 100k for a basic model let them, see how many we buy..
Thyey pretty much relly on £15b of car exports to teh UK.
Lets see if they can sell 15 of them at a million each see who bys them.
It's not like there aren't other cars on the market.


I find it laughable just how naive so many are on here. That they reckon
the entire world is queueing up to be nice to the UK in any deals.

Germany want to sell it's car to us so let them put any price they want on them
\and let the purchases decide what they are willing to pay rather than the govenments of those countries

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

Oh - May has admitted the UK simply doesn't have anything like enough
trained negotiators for new trade deals. Not surprising, as they've all
had to be done in conjunction with the EU before.

Have you only just noticed this Dave?

Of course not. Was obvious to most what would happen if we left. But not
to the many optimists. Like the one I replied to.

Everyone else has know about it
for some weeks, including the fact that the Kiwis have offered us some
of theirs.

That might be a bit like using the wife's brother for a lawyer during a
divorce.

--
*I used to be a banker, but then I lost interest.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"tim..." writes:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2016 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.


Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that the
UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU when it was
ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when exiting the EU the
trade deal would may still be valid between Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if that
were to be the case.

We would automatically withdraw when we leave the EU, *but* regardless of that,
the UK government remains liable to pay compensation for 20 years afterwards
if it does anything which undermines the value of any trade which took place
whilst CETA was in effect.

I am much more confident that the EU countries will torpedo CETA and TTIP,
than I am that our own government would torpedo such a 1-sided trade deal -
I suspect the UK will run after any deal going, however bad it is for us.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Recently the Canadian official in charge of the negotiation said that
the UK would be part of CETA because it would still be in the EU
when it was ratified within the next 1/2 years and hinted when
exiting the EU the trade deal would may still be valid between
Canada and the UK.

There would be nothing to stop us unilaterally withdrawing from it, if
that were to be the case.

We would automatically withdraw when we leave the EU, *but* regardless
of that, the UK government remains liable to pay compensation for 20
years afterwards if it does anything which undermines the value of any
trade which took place whilst CETA was in effect.

I am much more confident that the EU countries will torpedo CETA and
TTIP, than I am that our own government would torpedo such a 1-sided
trade deal - I suspect the UK will run after any deal going, however bad
it is for us.

This is what worries me too. Negotiating any deal is an extremely
difficult process. With each country desperate to swing it in its favour.

What you have to ask yourself is what does the UK have to sell which
another country will want to buy? That it can't get cheaper/better
elsewhere?

--
*Kill one man and you're a murderer, kill a million youand 're a conqueror.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

If I saw everything in the world as negatively as Harry, I'd have jumped off
a high building by now.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harry wrote:
http://www.theunituk.org.uk/2016/07/...els-over-ceta/

And it's going to be ever so easy for the UK to make deals with all the
other countries in the world, we've been told, as we don't need the EU.

Just wait and see...

--
*I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.