I realise this question is a bit like asking how long a piece of
string is!

I've seen a terraced house for sale on an estate agents website in an
area I'd like to live in (North of England). According to the estate
agent the house needs "extensive internal modernisation" as it hasn't
been lived in in about 8/10 years.

It has 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, kitchen and a bathroom. BTW, it
*hasn't* been vandalised or in a fire (nothing that serious), it's
just been vacant. The houses on either side of it appear to be lived
in and in good condition.

I haven't gone to see the house yet, but I'd guess it will need
re-wired, plumbed, central heating, double-glazing (it currently has
single glazing), complete redecoration, new bathroom suite and new
kitchen units. As well as tiling in the kitchen/bathroom.

If I wanted to get a builder in to have this done to a "regular" or
"basic" standard (nothing fancy), what do you think it might cost? Do
you think I could maybe get it done for £15,000 - or am I in the wrong
price range altogether!?

On 29 Nov 2003 08:37:02 -0800, (Melanie19)
wrote:

I realise this question is a bit like asking how long a piece of
string is!

I've seen a terraced house for sale on an estate agents website in an
area I'd like to live in (North of England). According to the estate
agent the house needs "extensive internal modernisation" as it hasn't
been lived in in about 8/10 years.

A fixer-upper.... :-)




It has 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, kitchen and a bathroom. BTW, it
*hasn't* been vandalised or in a fire (nothing that serious), it's
just been vacant. The houses on either side of it appear to be lived
in and in good condition.

The real issue is going to be whether the property is structurally
sound or not - in other words whether the foundations, timbers, walls
and roof are in good condition. They could be, but may not be - for
example, the house may have been neglected for a lot longer than 8-10
years. The only way to determine that is to have a proper structural
survey done - not just the valuation survey for the mortgage lender.
The latter is only looking to see that there is enough residual value
in the property should they need to sell it if you default on
payments. This survey is going to cost a few hundred pounds; but it
would unwise to proceed with a purchase without it. There may be
remedial work which would cost tens of thousands to resolve, yet not
be superficially obvious.






I haven't gone to see the house yet, but I'd guess it will need
re-wired, plumbed, central heating, double-glazing (it currently has
single glazing), complete redecoration, new bathroom suite and new
kitchen units. As well as tiling in the kitchen/bathroom.

Of the above, if rewiring is needed, it has to be done for safety
reasons, so should be first priority along with anything structural.
Depending on what you wanted, cost around £2-3k.
Central heating is not a must have, at least immediately, but budget
£3k or so.

Double glazing is not mandatory unless the windows are in a very poor
state of repair. If this is an older place with wooden sash
windows, it is relatively easy to repair them unless they are very
badly rotted.

New bathroom suite including fitting probably starts at around
£1500-2000. FOr a kitchen starting at £2-3k is perhaps realistic.

Redecorating is cheap in terms of materials but time consuming.


Any of the above jobs that you can do yourself or get help to do, will
save you a lot of money - for most of them the labour cost is more
than the materials.

If I wanted to get a builder in to have this done to a "regular" or
"basic" standard (nothing fancy), what do you think it might cost? Do
you think I could maybe get it done for £15,000 - or am I in the wrong
price range altogether!?

It really does depend. The area and amount of work around will have
a big influence on labour costs.

If there is nothing structurally wrong and you can do some of the work
then you might get close to your £15k figure, but there is a lot of
guesswork in this. If there is substantial structural work, then
probably not.

You really need to get a survey and several estimates to know for
sure, and then do the sums.

The other thing to consider is the reason for buying the place. If
you are looking for a shortish term financial gain, then you need to
do the arithmetic carefully.
However, if the issue is to get onto the property ladder and funds are
limited, so this represents a low entry point then that can be OK as
well as long as you are careful. For example, some of the things
that you list could be done over a period of time as funds become
available. To some extent you could even spend more money over time
in total than you would spend today on a fully fixed up place. In
effect, you would be spreading the purchase cost and taking a level of
risk on property values increasing over time. That is true in the
long term, but we are probably near the top of the market now, so it
would be unwise to go too far on this track.....





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:


It has 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, kitchen and a bathroom. BTW, it
*hasn't* been vandalised or in a fire (nothing that serious), it's
just been vacant. The houses on either side of it appear to be lived
in and in good condition.


The real issue is going to be whether the property is structurally
sound or not - in other words whether the foundations, timbers, walls
and roof are in good condition. They could be, but may not be - for
example, the house may have been neglected for a lot longer than 8-10
years. The only way to determine that is to have a proper structural
survey done - not just the valuation survey for the mortgage lender.
The latter is only looking to see that there is enough residual value
in the property should they need to sell it if you default on
payments. This survey is going to cost a few hundred pounds; but it
would unwise to proceed with a purchase without it. There may be
remedial work which would cost tens of thousands to resolve, yet not
be superficially obvious.

I haven't gone to see the house yet, but I'd guess it will need
re-wired, plumbed, central heating, double-glazing (it currently has
single glazing), complete redecoration, new bathroom suite and new
kitchen units. As well as tiling in the kitchen/bathroom.



If I wanted to get a builder in to have this done to a "regular" or
"basic" standard (nothing fancy), what do you think it might cost? Do
you think I could maybe get it done for £15,000 - or am I in the wrong
price range altogether!?


It really does depend. The area and amount of work around will have
a big influence on labour costs.

If there is nothing structurally wrong and you can do some of the work
then you might get close to your £15k figure, but there is a lot of
guesswork in this. If there is substantial structural work, then
probably not.

3 years ago the 2 bedroom flat next door was refurbished from a similar
state, at a cost of 16K.
This was on the cheap as well, Wickes DG, budget kitchen units and bath
suite for instance.
The CH boiler was a piece of work as well, rotted out the heat exchanger
after 2 years...

They bought the place at auction for 33K, spent 16K on it and sold it
for 78K, not a bad 3 weeks work.


Lee
--
To reply use lee.blaver and ntlworld.com

On 29 Nov 2003 08:37:02 -0800, (Melanie19)
wrote:

I realise this question is a bit like asking how long a piece of
string is!

I've seen a terraced house for sale on an estate agents website in an
area I'd like to live in (North of England). According to the estate
agent the house needs "extensive internal modernisation" as it hasn't
been lived in in about 8/10 years.

It has 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, kitchen and a bathroom. BTW, it
*hasn't* been vandalised or in a fire (nothing that serious), it's
just been vacant. The houses on either side of it appear to be lived
in and in good condition.

I haven't gone to see the house yet, but I'd guess it will need
re-wired, plumbed, central heating, double-glazing (it currently has
single glazing), complete redecoration, new bathroom suite and new
kitchen units. As well as tiling in the kitchen/bathroom.

If I wanted to get a builder in to have this done to a "regular" or
"basic" standard (nothing fancy), what do you think it might cost? Do
you think I could maybe get it done for £15,000 - or am I in the wrong
price range altogether!?

I'd spend the money to go have a look or get someone independant to
the agents to survey it first.

Mine similar house is structurally sound but needs the same sort of
work doing except I have no budget so am doing it myself (slowly).

Current houses for sale on the same estate are around £60,000 so
considering I paid £20,000 there's some "profit" in it eventually. :-)

Mark S.

The cost of a two bed house in "northern england" varies somewhat, in parts of South Manchester 100K is typical, but in say longsight or further north in blackburn
burnley 10-15k is more typical.

For a 100K house, 15K for kitchen, bathroom, re-wire, central heating and decorate for me to do it as a DIY job would be fine, and I would get my money back when I
sold.
15K on a 10-15K house is probably a complte waste, unless you have an urge to live in that particualr house for some years.

I would do two things if I was you
1) get the house valued by an estate agent, and then knock 10% off what s/he says. This values the house
2) ask a builder to estimate for the things you want done

You can now work out the economics of the situation.

Rick



On 29 Nov 2003 08:37:02 -0800, (Melanie19) wrote:
I realise this question is a bit like asking how long a piece of
string is!

I've seen a terraced house for sale on an estate agents website in an
area I'd like to live in (North of England). According to the estate
agent the house needs "extensive internal modernisation" as it hasn't
been lived in in about 8/10 years.

It has 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, kitchen and a bathroom. BTW, it
*hasn't* been vandalised or in a fire (nothing that serious), it's
just been vacant. The houses on either side of it appear to be lived
in and in good condition.

I haven't gone to see the house yet, but I'd guess it will need
re-wired, plumbed, central heating, double-glazing (it currently has
single glazing), complete redecoration, new bathroom suite and new
kitchen units. As well as tiling in the kitchen/bathroom.

If I wanted to get a builder in to have this done to a "regular" or
"basic" standard (nothing fancy), what do you think it might cost? Do
you think I could maybe get it done for £15,000 - or am I in the wrong
price range altogether!?

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 29 Nov 2003 08:37:02 -0800, (Melanie19)
wrote:

I realise this question is a bit like asking how long a piece of
string is!

I've seen a terraced house for sale on an estate agents website in an
area I'd like to live in (North of England). According to the estate
agent the house needs "extensive internal modernisation" as it hasn't
been lived in in about 8/10 years.

If this is your first go at this, suggest doing things in the order of
essentialness since costs tend to increase and increase, and leaving
the non essentials means you can either leave them or do cheap bodges
on them if you run out of cash. That does happen.


The real issue is going to be whether the property is structurally
sound or not

yes, ofen theyre not.

? - in other words whether the foundations, timbers, walls
and roof are in good condition. They could be, but may not be - for
example, the house may have been neglected for a lot longer than 8-10
years.

yup - when a property is left empty for years theres a reason for it.
It probably became intolerable to anyone at all 10 years ago.


I haven't gone to see the house yet, but I'd guess it will need
re-wired, plumbed, central heating, double-glazing (it currently has
single glazing), complete redecoration, new bathroom suite and new
kitchen units. As well as tiling in the kitchen/bathroom.

most of these are not needs. Wise to get realistic on this. Double
glazing I would suggest doing some reading on before even deciding on
it.


If I wanted to get a builder in to have this done to a "regular" or
"basic" standard (nothing fancy), what do you think it might cost? Do
you think I could maybe get it done for £15,000 - or am I in the wrong
price range altogether!?

If youre into DIY you can save money on the wiring by routing all the
wires yourself, the electrician just does the rest. Nice used 1930s
bathroom suites are cheap, etc etc.


For example, some of the things
that you list could be done over a period of time as funds become
available.

yup, its ilke a small mortgage, interest free, you just pay by putting
up with whatevers there for a while.


Regards, NT

If there is nothing structurally wrong and you can do some of the work
then you might get close to your £15k figure, but there is a lot of
guesswork in this. If there is substantial structural work, then
probably not.

You really need to get a survey and several estimates to know for
sure, and then do the sums.

The other thing to consider is the reason for buying the place. If
you are looking for a shortish term financial gain, then you need to
do the arithmetic carefully.
However, if the issue is to get onto the property ladder and funds are
limited, so this represents a low entry point then that can be OK as
well as long as you are careful. For example, some of the things
that you list could be done over a period of time as funds become
available. To some extent you could even spend more money over time
in total than you would spend today on a fully fixed up place. In
effect, you would be spreading the purchase cost and taking a level of
risk on property values increasing over time. That is true in the
long term, but we are probably near the top of the market now, so it
would be unwise to go too far on this track.....


Thanks for all above info! I would be buying to simply get on the
property ladder. The house is in an area I like, so I could see
myself living there for many years. The thing that caught my
attention about this house was the fact that it was a house I can
actually afford! It's not often I see one of those!

It's also really convenient to everything, so, as long as it's Ok
structurally it's really my only realistic chance of buying a place in
an area I like.

If I get a surveyor in, is there anything I should ask the surveyor in
order to choose one? Should I ensure they are a member of some
surveying organisation?

Do I simply look under the heading "surveyors" in Yellow Pages to find
one, or do builders or estate agents do structural surveys?

Thanks!

Your mortguage company will arrange a survey, you just pay.

Rick

On 30 Nov 2003 05:38:59 -0800, (Melanie19) wrote:
If there is nothing structurally wrong and you can do some of the work
then you might get close to your £15k figure, but there is a lot of
guesswork in this. If there is substantial structural work, then
probably not.

You really need to get a survey and several estimates to know for
sure, and then do the sums.

The other thing to consider is the reason for buying the place. If
you are looking for a shortish term financial gain, then you need to
do the arithmetic carefully.
However, if the issue is to get onto the property ladder and funds are
limited, so this represents a low entry point then that can be OK as
well as long as you are careful. For example, some of the things
that you list could be done over a period of time as funds become
available. To some extent you could even spend more money over time
in total than you would spend today on a fully fixed up place. In
effect, you would be spreading the purchase cost and taking a level of
risk on property values increasing over time. That is true in the
long term, but we are probably near the top of the market now, so it
would be unwise to go too far on this track.....


Thanks for all above info! I would be buying to simply get on the
property ladder. The house is in an area I like, so I could see
myself living there for many years. The thing that caught my
attention about this house was the fact that it was a house I can
actually afford! It's not often I see one of those!

It's also really convenient to everything, so, as long as it's Ok
structurally it's really my only realistic chance of buying a place in
an area I like.

If I get a surveyor in, is there anything I should ask the surveyor in
order to choose one? Should I ensure they are a member of some
surveying organisation?

Do I simply look under the heading "surveyors" in Yellow Pages to find
one, or do builders or estate agents do structural surveys?

Thanks!

On 30 Nov 2003 05:38:59 -0800, (Melanie19)
wrote:



Thanks for all above info! I would be buying to simply get on the
property ladder. The house is in an area I like, so I could see
myself living there for many years. The thing that caught my
attention about this house was the fact that it was a house I can
actually afford! It's not often I see one of those!

It's also really convenient to everything, so, as long as it's Ok
structurally it's really my only realistic chance of buying a place in
an area I like.

You're very welcome. I rather suspected that you were a first time
buyer looking to get onto the property ladder, hence the points
related to that.




If I get a surveyor in, is there anything I should ask the surveyor in
order to choose one? Should I ensure they are a member of some
surveying organisation?

Do I simply look under the heading "surveyors" in Yellow Pages to find
one, or do builders or estate agents do structural surveys?

Thanks!

There are a few approaches:

- Talk to your favoured mortgage lender(s) and explain the situation.
Ask them who they use for valuation surveys. Then approach that
surveyor and again explaining the situation, ask them to quote you for
a full structural survey. You *may* be able to get a better price for
the full report if the surveyor does it at the same time as the
valuation survey - I am not certain on this, but you could ask.

- Identify a surveyor on local recommendation if you can. Obviously
don't pick one at the selling estate agent.

- Yellow Pages or equivalent. In www.yell.co.uk they are under
Surveyors and Valuers.

You are looking for a chartered surveyor.

One approach that you could take would be to go for the valuation
survey only, then if that doesn't turn up anything horrendous and you
want to proceed, go for the full survey.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 29 Nov 2003 08:37:02 -0800, (Melanie19)
wrote:

I realise this question is a bit like asking how long a piece of
string is!

I've seen a terraced house for sale on an estate agents website in an
area I'd like to live in (North of England). According to the estate
agent the house needs "extensive internal modernisation" as it hasn't
been lived in in about 8/10 years.

It has 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, kitchen and a bathroom. BTW, it
*hasn't* been vandalised or in a fire (nothing that serious), it's
just been vacant. The houses on either side of it appear to be lived
in and in good condition.

I haven't gone to see the house yet, but I'd guess it will need
re-wired, plumbed, central heating, double-glazing (it currently has
single glazing), complete redecoration, new bathroom suite and new
kitchen units. As well as tiling in the kitchen/bathroom.

If I wanted to get a builder in to have this done to a "regular" or
"basic" standard (nothing fancy), what do you think it might cost? Do
you think I could maybe get it done for £15,000 - or am I in the wrong
price range altogether!?

Bit cheeky, but what's the asking price? It sounds like an exciting
project. I've seen photos of some of the housing in the North, where I
think it's a crying shame that so many good, solid properties are
either empty or vandalised and practically worthless. Just evidence
for me that the current and past governments do not have a clue about
how to restore some kind of balance between north and south.

I reckon rewiring should cost around £1,500. Plumbing and heating I
have no idea about. Don't do a Colin and Justin and try and put
necklaces on a pig. Just restore it to comfortable "liveability" and
enjoy!

MM

"Melanie19" wrote
| It's also really convenient to everything, so, as long as it's Ok
| structurally it's really my only realistic chance of buying a place
| in an area I like.
| If I get a surveyor in, is there anything I should ask the surveyor
| in order to choose one? Should I ensure they are a member of some
| surveying organisation?
| Do I simply look under the heading "surveyors" in Yellow Pages to find
| one, or do builders or estate agents do structural surveys?

You need a 'structural engineer' and that is the category they are listed
under in YP, next to structural steelwork (and I hope you never need any of
that!). There is also a Find a Struct Engineer link on www.istructe.org.uk
but it's a paid advertising service so lots of engineers aren't on it.

It will cost rather more than a 'simple' structural survey but you can ask
the struct eng to prepare specification and drawings for remedial work
required. You will need these anyway if you go ahead, to get Building
Regulations approval, but they will also enable you to ask builders to quote
for the works and the quotes will all be for the same work, ie more
comparable. It also shows the builders you are serious about getting the
work done, so they may be more willing to quote, and serious about getting
the work done properly so they should be less likely to quote for a skimped
job or unneccessary work.

Owain

N. Thornton wrote in message
om...
Andy Hall wrote in message
. ..
On 29 Nov 2003 08:37:02 -0800, (Melanie19)
wrote:

I realise this question is a bit like asking how long a piece of
string is!

I've seen a terraced house for sale on an estate agents website in an
area I'd like to live in (North of England). According to the estate
agent the house needs "extensive internal modernisation" as it hasn't
been lived in in about 8/10 years.

One thing you may have missed which might save you heaps of money, is the
fact that properties which have been abandoned/not lived in for "OVER 10
years" are eligible for claiming the VAT back on, its a complicated process
done at the end of the refurbishment, I'm nearly sure it doesn't involve the
"Labour" element of the refurbishment either, but one worth exploring non
the less.

I'm sure some one here might be able to help you further, or give you
pointers of where to look.
--
Big Al - The Peoples Pal

SNIP

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 01:32:49 -0000, Big Al - The Peoples Pal wrote:

N. Thornton wrote in message
om...
Andy Hall wrote in message
. ..
On 29 Nov 2003 08:37:02 -0800, (Melanie19)
wrote:

I realise this question is a bit like asking how long a piece of
string is!

I've seen a terraced house for sale on an estate agents website in an
area I'd like to live in (North of England). According to the estate
agent the house needs "extensive internal modernisation" as it hasn't
been lived in in about 8/10 years.

One thing you may have missed which might save you heaps of money, is the
fact that properties which have been abandoned/not lived in for "OVER 10
years" are eligible for claiming the VAT back on, its a complicated process
done at the end of the refurbishment, I'm nearly sure it doesn't involve the
"Labour" element of the refurbishment either, but one worth exploring non
the less.

I'm sure some one here might be able to help you further, or give you
pointers of where to look.

Yep. See definition in paragraph 7.1
http://www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/notices/719.htm
Does include the labour if you are paying a builder, doesn't include
professional fees. Paragraph 9.2