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IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to
get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)
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On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:13:55 +0100, Stuart Noble
wrote:

I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives?


Garlic?

"Pharmacotherapy. 1993 Jul-Aug;13(4):406-7.
Can garlic lower blood pressure? A pilot study.
McMahon FG1, Vargas R.

Abstract

A popular garlic preparation containing 1.3% allicin at a large dose (2400 mg)
was evaluated in this open-label study in nine patients with rather severe
hypertension (diastolic blood pressure or = 115 mm Hg). Sitting blood pressure
fell 7/16 (+/- 3/2 SD) mm Hg at peak effect approximately 5 hours after the
dose, with a significant decrease in diastolic blood pressure (p 0.05) from
5-14 hours after the dose. No significant side effects were reported. Our
results indicate that this garlic preparation can reduce blood pressure. Further
controlled studies are needed, particularly with more conventional doses (e.g.,
or = 900 mg/day), in patients with mild to moderate hypertension and under
placebo-controlled, double-blind conditions.

PMID: 8361870 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] "


Thomas Prufer
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On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 13:13:19 UTC+1, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to
get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


I was in the co-op and saw these packets of dried beetroot they had carrots and other things to, I tried the beetroot and carrot on special offer at £1.
I do wonder whether they have added ingridients that negate any good the 'snack' might possible do me compard to a mars or 2 bags of crips, not sure I'll buy them again unless on specail offer.
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"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood pressure. Having had
some unpleasant experiences with the legal high known as beta blockers (and now also
with amlodipine), I'm determined to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri
Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


Sorry to hear of your experiences with beta-blockers. It appears I'm
among the lucky ones having never experienced any adverse side
effects having been on them for over ten years.

A lot probably depends on how high your unmedicated blood
pressure actually is, although that itself is a minefield - time
of day - whitecoat effect - wide variations in readings etc.
as to whether its advisable to abandon conventional
medication under all but the most extreme circumstances.

Basically for people like me

"During the 4 weeks they were taking the juice, patients in the active supplement
group (whose beetroot juice contained inorganic nitrate) experienced a reduction
in blood pressure of 8/4 mmHg (millimeters of mercury) ."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/288229.php

a reduction of 8mm sys and 4mm dia don't really do much and fall well with the normal
range I get when taking my own readings.

The problem with alternative treatments, certainly with studies
which the make headlines is that their effects are often limited to
fairly specific groups, and often involve unusually large doses.

Of lifestyle in general, for many of us its the usual story. Lose a few
pounds or stones, drink less, less sodium, no smoking.

There's no silver bullets, nutri or otherwise I'm afraid.


michael adams

....



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On 06/04/2016 14:12, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:50:34 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:




I totally agree. Lifestyle changes will make some difference, as you
say, such as giving up smoking, alcohol and added salt, eating fewer
calories, taking exercise and losing weight,


Shooting yourself....



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman


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On 06/04/2016 13:50, michael adams wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood pressure. Having had
some unpleasant experiences with the legal high known as beta blockers (and now also
with amlodipine), I'm determined to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri
Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


Sorry to hear of your experiences with beta-blockers. It appears I'm
among the lucky ones having never experienced any adverse side
effects having been on them for over ten years.

A lot probably depends on how high your unmedicated blood
pressure actually is, although that itself is a minefield - time
of day - whitecoat effect - wide variations in readings etc.
as to whether its advisable to abandon conventional
medication under all but the most extreme circumstances.

Basically for people like me

"During the 4 weeks they were taking the juice, patients in the active supplement
group (whose beetroot juice contained inorganic nitrate) experienced a reduction
in blood pressure of 8/4 mmHg (millimeters of mercury) ."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/288229.php

a reduction of 8mm sys and 4mm dia don't really do much and fall well with the normal
range I get when taking my own readings.

The problem with alternative treatments, certainly with studies
which the make headlines is that their effects are often limited to
fairly specific groups, and often involve unusually large doses.

Of lifestyle in general, for many of us its the usual story. Lose a few
pounds or stones, drink less, less sodium, no smoking.

There's no silver bullets, nutri or otherwise I'm afraid.


michael adams

...




No silver bullets? Put it this way, I just spent 3 days in hospital with
an ever increasing array of medication being applied to reduce my pulse
rate from the dizzy heights of 125. Just wouldn't shift.

Being back at home for 2 days produced no change, so this morning I
abandoned all medication, including stuff I'd be on for years, and had a
beetroot smoothie instead. 15.00 hrs and my pulse is ranging between 60
and 70. No great believer in alternative mumbo jumbo but.....
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On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 16:01:52 UTC+1, Stuart Noble wrote:
On 06/04/2016 13:50, michael adams wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood pressure. Having had
some unpleasant experiences with the legal high known as beta blockers (and now also
with amlodipine), I'm determined to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri
Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


Sorry to hear of your experiences with beta-blockers. It appears I'm
among the lucky ones having never experienced any adverse side
effects having been on them for over ten years.

A lot probably depends on how high your unmedicated blood
pressure actually is, although that itself is a minefield - time
of day - whitecoat effect - wide variations in readings etc.
as to whether its advisable to abandon conventional
medication under all but the most extreme circumstances.

Basically for people like me

"During the 4 weeks they were taking the juice, patients in the active supplement
group (whose beetroot juice contained inorganic nitrate) experienced a reduction
in blood pressure of 8/4 mmHg (millimeters of mercury) ."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/288229.php

a reduction of 8mm sys and 4mm dia don't really do much and fall well with the normal
range I get when taking my own readings.

The problem with alternative treatments, certainly with studies
which the make headlines is that their effects are often limited to
fairly specific groups, and often involve unusually large doses.

Of lifestyle in general, for many of us its the usual story. Lose a few
pounds or stones, drink less, less sodium, no smoking.

There's no silver bullets, nutri or otherwise I'm afraid.


michael adams

...




No silver bullets? Put it this way, I just spent 3 days in hospital with
an ever increasing array of medication being applied to reduce my pulse
rate from the dizzy heights of 125. Just wouldn't shift.

Being back at home for 2 days produced no change, so this morning I
abandoned all medication, including stuff I'd be on for years, and had a
beetroot smoothie instead. 15.00 hrs and my pulse is ranging between 60
and 70. No great believer in alternative mumbo jumbo but.....


Well if it works, eat it or die.
I'm sure you could acquire a taste if it was life or death.
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"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
I hate beetroot,


and had a beetroot smoothie instead.



I doubt there's anything which says you can't mask
the taste with another ingredient. Although it would
probably need to be something equally strongly flavoured.
Tomato juice or puree are ones that immediately spring to
mind. Additionally processed tomatoes are very beneficial
as they contain lypocene.

When abandoning medication the problems often don't
arise when you come off it, but when you finally
concede that you're going to have to go back on it,
and end up in a far worse position than you were
before.

Whether that applies in this case, isn't for me
to judge of course.

If this has cropped up all of a sudden, after a year
or more of no problems then that strongly suggests
that there's another factor at work which needs
investigating. And isn't the result of the medication
as such, at all.

Bad side effects of medication can include total hair
loss, vomiting, nausea, insomnia, nightmares, being unable
to stand for more than a few minutes unaided if at all
etc etc but people put up with them when the only alternative
is the old grim reaper.


michael adams

....


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On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 16:41:46 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
I hate beetroot,


and had a beetroot smoothie instead.



I doubt there's anything which says you can't mask
the taste with another ingredient. Although it would
probably need to be something equally strongly flavoured.


Whisky, absinthe, chartreuse, pernod, but not altogether ;-)


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On 06/04/2016 17:33, pamela wrote:
On 16:02 6 Apr 2016, Stuart Noble wrote:

On 06/04/2016 13:50, michael adams wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re
blood pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with
the legal high known as beta blockers (and now also with
amlodipine), I'm determined to get off medication altogether.
I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got
any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either as it happens
:-)

Sorry to hear of your experiences with beta-blockers. It
appears I'm among the lucky ones having never experienced any
adverse side effects having been on them for over ten years.

A lot probably depends on how high your unmedicated blood
pressure actually is, although that itself is a minefield -
time of day - whitecoat effect - wide variations in readings
etc. as to whether its advisable to abandon conventional
medication under all but the most extreme circumstances.

Basically for people like me

"During the 4 weeks they were taking the juice, patients in the
active supplement group (whose beetroot juice contained
inorganic nitrate) experienced a reduction in blood pressure of
8/4 mmHg (millimeters of mercury) ."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/288229.php

a reduction of 8mm sys and 4mm dia don't really do much and
fall well with the normal range I get when taking my own
readings.

The problem with alternative treatments, certainly with studies
which the make headlines is that their effects are often
limited to fairly specific groups, and often involve unusually
large doses.

Of lifestyle in general, for many of us its the usual story.
Lose a few pounds or stones, drink less, less sodium, no
smoking.

There's no silver bullets, nutri or otherwise I'm afraid.


michael adams

...




No silver bullets? Put it this way, I just spent 3 days in
hospital with an ever increasing array of medication being
applied to reduce my pulse rate from the dizzy heights of 125.
Just wouldn't shift.

Being back at home for 2 days produced no change, so this
morning I abandoned all medication, including stuff I'd be on
for years, and had a beetroot smoothie instead. 15.00 hrs and my
pulse is ranging between 60 and 70. No great believer in
alternative mumbo jumbo but.....


What was the cause of your high pulse rate?


Let's just say two consultants plus me haven't a clue as to why it was
high since BP wasn't too awful and ECG was normal in other respects.


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On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to
get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


As the patient information leaflet tells you, don't stop taking beta
blockers suddenly. That can cause serious problems. Instead, preferably
in consultation with your doctor, reduce the dose slowly over time. This
gives the body time to recover from its reliance upon the drug. You may
also find that the side effects disappear at a lower dose level. I
halved my dose over a couple of weeks and that got rid of the tiredness
and numbness in my feet that I had identified as probably being side
effects.

--
Colin Bignell
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On 06/04/2016 18:29, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal
high known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm
determined to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri
Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that
keen on kale either as it happens :-)


As the patient information leaflet tells you, don't stop taking beta
blockers suddenly. That can cause serious problems. Instead,
preferably in consultation with your doctor, reduce the dose slowly
over time. This gives the body time to recover from its reliance upon
the drug. You may also find that the side effects disappear at a
lower dose level. I halved my dose over a couple of weeks and that
got rid of the tiredness and numbness in my feet that I had
identified as probably being side effects.


I'd only been on bbs for a couple of days and, frankly, I wasn't
prepared to put up with the side effects I was getting. In fact I'm
beginning to wonder whether medication is appropriate at all in most cases.
http://www.cochrane.org/CD006742/HTN...on-are-unclear

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"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood pressure.
Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high known as beta
blockers


they made me need to go to the toilet 6 times every night

really debilitating

tim





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On 06/04/2016 17:33, pamela wrote:
On 16:02 6 Apr 2016, Stuart Noble wrote:



What was the cause of your high pulse rate?


Mrs Noble?

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
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On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to
get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


In one of the areas of interest to me I see reports of people who have
all combinations of high, normal and low blood pressure and pulse. The
common factor is a thyroid issue.

Insufficient thyroid hormone can result in low OR high blood pressure.

Insufficient or excess thyroid hormone can result in high pulse.

Amlodipine can cause thyroid disorders.

http://www.jebmh.com/latest-articles.php?at_id=1017

Beta-blockers can affect thyroid hormones.

My own experience was that I had relatively low blood pressure for many
years and that changed into a fairly middling value when adequately treated.

So I recommend that you ask for a thyroid test. (That opens up cans of
worms as a TSH test on its own is inadequate, in my view, to assess
thyroid status. But that is all you will probably get.)

In my book the flavour of beetroot is OK but it is so sweet! A borscht
in which the beetroot has been fermented helps with sourness and reduced
sweetness. Our typical small-ish "salad" beetroot are best avoided and
some larger, older, less sweet ones used. Even just making it with some
vinegar and pepper helps!

--
Rod


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On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to
get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


check you are getting enough potassium as low potassium leads to raised BP.


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On 06/04/2016 16:02, Stuart Noble wrote:
....
No silver bullets? Put it this way, I just spent 3 days in hospital with
an ever increasing array of medication being applied to reduce my pulse
rate from the dizzy heights of 125. Just wouldn't shift.

Being back at home for 2 days produced no change, so this morning I
abandoned all medication, including stuff I'd be on for years, and had a
beetroot smoothie instead. 15.00 hrs and my pulse is ranging between 60
and 70. No great believer in alternative mumbo jumbo but.....


Beetroot is a good source of potassium and, to a lesser extent,
magnesium; electrolytes that were pumped into me when my heart rate hit
240 and brought it back down to a reasonable level.

--
Colin Bignell
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"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to
get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


check you are getting enough potassium as low potassium leads to raised BP.


Bananas other fruit etc.

That's the other side of the low salt or more specifically low sodium chloride
recommendation. something like that Potassium and sodium are
responsible for ion exchange across the cell embranes of every cell
in the body /somethinhg like that and so maintaining a balance
is important. Well once you know about it seems that way
anyway.


michael adams

....


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"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to
get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


In one of the areas of interest to me I see reports of people who have all combinations
of high, normal and low blood pressure and pulse. The common factor is a thyroid issue.

Insufficient thyroid hormone can result in low OR high blood pressure.

Insufficient or excess thyroid hormone can result in high pulse.

Amlodipine can cause thyroid disorders.

http://www.jebmh.com/latest-articles.php?at_id=1017

Beta-blockers can affect thyroid hormones.

My own experience was that I had relatively low blood pressure for many years and that
changed into a fairly middling value when adequately treated.

So I recommend that you ask for a thyroid test. (That opens up cans of worms as a TSH
test on its own is inadequate, in my view, to assess thyroid status. But that is all
you will probably get.)


With respect, most of what you've said about thyroid malfunction there
could equally apply to almost anybody .

AFAII the only unusual symptom Stuart has described is the dangerously
elevated heartbeat which appears to have subsided.

What is it about Stuart any more than anyone else that leads you
to recommend he should ask to have a thyroid test ?


michael adams

....



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On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 13:13:19 UTC+1, Stuart Noble wrote:
... I hate beetroot,


There are lots of recipes for beetroot based cakes (like carrot cakes)

http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/c...Txvfup4veXS.97
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/be...eed_cake_50355

I have no idea how many pieces of cake equals a beetroot juice portion for therapeutic purposes.

Owain


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"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2016 13:50, michael adams wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had
some unpleasant experiences with the legal high known as beta blockers
(and now also
with amlodipine), I'm determined to get off medication altogether. I've
got me a Nutri
Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen
on kale either
as it happens :-)


Sorry to hear of your experiences with beta-blockers. It appears I'm
among the lucky ones having never experienced any adverse side
effects having been on them for over ten years.

A lot probably depends on how high your unmedicated blood
pressure actually is, although that itself is a minefield - time
of day - whitecoat effect - wide variations in readings etc.
as to whether its advisable to abandon conventional
medication under all but the most extreme circumstances.

Basically for people like me

"During the 4 weeks they were taking the juice, patients in the active
supplement
group (whose beetroot juice contained inorganic nitrate) experienced a
reduction
in blood pressure of 8/4 mmHg (millimeters of mercury) ."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/288229.php

a reduction of 8mm sys and 4mm dia don't really do much and fall well
with the normal
range I get when taking my own readings.

The problem with alternative treatments, certainly with studies
which the make headlines is that their effects are often limited to
fairly specific groups, and often involve unusually large doses.

Of lifestyle in general, for many of us its the usual story. Lose a few
pounds or stones, drink less, less sodium, no smoking.

There's no silver bullets, nutri or otherwise I'm afraid.


No silver bullets?


Nope, none.

Put it this way, I just spent 3 days in hospital with an ever increasing
array of medication being applied to reduce my pulse rate from the dizzy
heights of 125. Just wouldn't shift.


It was that high because of the stupid stuff
you had been shovelling into your mouth.

Being back at home for 2 days produced no change, so this morning I
abandoned all medication, including stuff I'd be on for years, and had a
beetroot smoothie instead. 15.00 hrs and my pulse is ranging between 60
and 70.


And that would have happened even if you had done nothing.

No great believer in alternative mumbo jumbo


Obvious lie.

but.....


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"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 16:01:52 UTC+1, Stuart Noble wrote:
On 06/04/2016 13:50, michael adams wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had
some unpleasant experiences with the legal high known as beta blockers
(and now also
with amlodipine), I'm determined to get off medication altogether.
I've got me a Nutri
Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that
keen on kale either
as it happens :-)

Sorry to hear of your experiences with beta-blockers. It appears I'm
among the lucky ones having never experienced any adverse side
effects having been on them for over ten years.

A lot probably depends on how high your unmedicated blood
pressure actually is, although that itself is a minefield - time
of day - whitecoat effect - wide variations in readings etc.
as to whether its advisable to abandon conventional
medication under all but the most extreme circumstances.

Basically for people like me

"During the 4 weeks they were taking the juice, patients in the active
supplement
group (whose beetroot juice contained inorganic nitrate) experienced a
reduction
in blood pressure of 8/4 mmHg (millimeters of mercury) ."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/288229.php

a reduction of 8mm sys and 4mm dia don't really do much and fall well
with the normal
range I get when taking my own readings.

The problem with alternative treatments, certainly with studies
which the make headlines is that their effects are often limited to
fairly specific groups, and often involve unusually large doses.

Of lifestyle in general, for many of us its the usual story. Lose a few
pounds or stones, drink less, less sodium, no smoking.

There's no silver bullets, nutri or otherwise I'm afraid.


michael adams

...




No silver bullets? Put it this way, I just spent 3 days in hospital with
an ever increasing array of medication being applied to reduce my pulse
rate from the dizzy heights of 125. Just wouldn't shift.

Being back at home for 2 days produced no change, so this morning I
abandoned all medication, including stuff I'd be on for years, and had a
beetroot smoothie instead. 15.00 hrs and my pulse is ranging between 60
and 70. No great believer in alternative mumbo jumbo but.....


Well if it works,


It doesn't. Just a coincidence.

eat it or die.


Or don't bother and carry on regardless.

I'm sure you could acquire a taste if it was life or death.


Plenty don't with chemo, they realise they will die whatever they do.

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Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined
to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


I have seen a case where the male (might be problems with a
female) with BP around 180, reduced it to 140 over a period of some 18
months. He took 25mg of DHEA initially daily, then over 9 months
increased this to 75mg daily. There was no improvement noticed below
75mg and it took about a year of 75mg to reduce the BP to 140. Last time
I checked with him his BP was in the region of 120 to 150 depending on
the time of day. He had also reduced his weight by 14lbs. He no longer
needs to take DHEA. YMMV.
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"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
I hate beetroot,


and had a beetroot smoothie instead.



I doubt there's anything which says you can't mask
the taste with another ingredient. Although it would
probably need to be something equally strongly flavoured.
Tomato juice or puree are ones that immediately spring to
mind. Additionally processed tomatoes are very beneficial
as they contain lypocene.

When abandoning medication the problems often don't arise when you come
off it, but when you finally
concede that you're going to have to go back on it, and end up in a far
worse position than you were before.


Its rare to get that result.

Whether that applies in this case, isn't for me
to judge of course.

If this has cropped up all of a sudden, after a year
or more of no problems then that strongly suggests
that there's another factor at work which needs
investigating. And isn't the result of the medication
as such, at all.

Bad side effects of medication can include total hair
loss, vomiting, nausea, insomnia, nightmares, being unable
to stand for more than a few minutes unaided if at all
etc etc but people put up with them when the only alternative
is the old grim reaper.



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"pamela" wrote in message
...
On 16:02 6 Apr 2016, Stuart Noble wrote:

On 06/04/2016 13:50, michael adams wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re
blood pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with
the legal high known as beta blockers (and now also with
amlodipine), I'm determined to get off medication altogether.
I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got
any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either as it happens
:-)

Sorry to hear of your experiences with beta-blockers. It
appears I'm among the lucky ones having never experienced any
adverse side effects having been on them for over ten years.

A lot probably depends on how high your unmedicated blood
pressure actually is, although that itself is a minefield -
time of day - whitecoat effect - wide variations in readings
etc. as to whether its advisable to abandon conventional
medication under all but the most extreme circumstances.

Basically for people like me

"During the 4 weeks they were taking the juice, patients in the
active supplement group (whose beetroot juice contained
inorganic nitrate) experienced a reduction in blood pressure of
8/4 mmHg (millimeters of mercury) ."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/288229.php

a reduction of 8mm sys and 4mm dia don't really do much and
fall well with the normal range I get when taking my own
readings.

The problem with alternative treatments, certainly with studies
which the make headlines is that their effects are often
limited to fairly specific groups, and often involve unusually
large doses.

Of lifestyle in general, for many of us its the usual story.
Lose a few pounds or stones, drink less, less sodium, no
smoking.

There's no silver bullets, nutri or otherwise I'm afraid.


michael adams

...




No silver bullets? Put it this way, I just spent 3 days in
hospital with an ever increasing array of medication being
applied to reduce my pulse rate from the dizzy heights of 125.
Just wouldn't shift.

Being back at home for 2 days produced no change, so this
morning I abandoned all medication, including stuff I'd be on
for years, and had a beetroot smoothie instead. 15.00 hrs and my
pulse is ranging between 60 and 70. No great believer in
alternative mumbo jumbo but.....


What was the cause of your high pulse rate?


What he stupidly tried before the beetroot.



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tim... wrote:

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers


they made me need to go to the toilet 6 times every night

really debilitating

tim





Which species if beta blockers?
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"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2016 18:29, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal
high known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm
determined to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri
Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that
keen on kale either as it happens :-)


As the patient information leaflet tells you, don't stop taking beta
blockers suddenly. That can cause serious problems. Instead,
preferably in consultation with your doctor, reduce the dose slowly
over time. This gives the body time to recover from its reliance upon
the drug. You may also find that the side effects disappear at a
lower dose level. I halved my dose over a couple of weeks and that
got rid of the tiredness and numbness in my feet that I had
identified as probably being side effects.


I'd only been on bbs for a couple of days and, frankly, I wasn't prepared
to put up with the side effects I was getting. In fact I'm beginning to
wonder whether medication is appropriate at all in most cases.


More fool you on that last.

http://www.cochrane.org/CD006742/HTN...on-are-unclear


Thats MILD hypertension, stupid.

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On 06/04/2016 21:32, Capitol wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined
to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


I have seen a case where the male (might be problems with a
female) with BP around 180, reduced it to 140 over a period of some 18
months. He took 25mg of DHEA initially daily, then over 9 months
increased this to 75mg daily. There was no improvement noticed below
75mg and it took about a year of 75mg to reduce the BP to 140. Last time
I checked with him his BP was in the region of 120 to 150 depending on
the time of day. He had also reduced his weight by 14lbs. He no longer
needs to take DHEA. YMMV.


Just so that you know, DHEA is a Controlled Drug within the UK. Listed
under the name Prasterone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugs_...e_of_Drugs_Act

--
Rod
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polygonum wrote:
On 06/04/2016 21:32, Capitol wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined
to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)


I have seen a case where the male (might be problems with a
female) with BP around 180, reduced it to 140 over a period of some 18
months. He took 25mg of DHEA initially daily, then over 9 months
increased this to 75mg daily. There was no improvement noticed below
75mg and it took about a year of 75mg to reduce the BP to 140. Last time
I checked with him his BP was in the region of 120 to 150 depending on
the time of day. He had also reduced his weight by 14lbs. He no longer
needs to take DHEA. YMMV.


Just so that you know, DHEA is a Controlled Drug within the UK. Listed
under the name Prasterone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugs_...e_of_Drugs_Act


American friend, OTC in the US. Any Dr can prescribe if he
decides to do so.
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On 4/6/2016 3:37 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 13:13:19 UTC+1, Stuart Noble wrote:
... I hate beetroot,


There are lots of recipes for beetroot based cakes (like carrot cakes)

http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/c...Txvfup4veXS.97
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/be...eed_cake_50355

I have no idea how many pieces of cake equals a beetroot juice portion for therapeutic purposes.

I thought I might be able to tolerate beetroot in a carrot-cake-like
incarnation.
Nope.
Still tastes like dirt.



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On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 22:24:39 UTC+1, S Viemeister wrote:
I thought I might be able to tolerate beetroot in a carrot-cake-like
incarnation.
Nope.
Still tastes like dirt.


Beetroot wine?

Owain
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I would not have described beta blockers as legal highs, These days they
are used to smooth out the problems associated with being too sensitive to
the old brain chemicals which do make you high, then low etc.
I don't like the stuff either, and its stains are terrible to get out of
clothes I'm told.
Brian

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read my posts! :-)
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood pressure.
Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high known as beta
blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to get off
medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate beetroot, so
anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either as it happens
:-)



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On 06/04/2016 21:42, Rod Speed wrote:


"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2016 18:29, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal
high known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm
determined to get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri
Ninja but I hate beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that
keen on kale either as it happens :-)

As the patient information leaflet tells you, don't stop taking beta
blockers suddenly. That can cause serious problems. Instead,
preferably in consultation with your doctor, reduce the dose slowly
over time. This gives the body time to recover from its reliance upon
the drug. You may also find that the side effects disappear at a
lower dose level. I halved my dose over a couple of weeks and that
got rid of the tiredness and numbness in my feet that I had
identified as probably being side effects.


I'd only been on bbs for a couple of days and, frankly, I wasn't
prepared to put up with the side effects I was getting. In fact I'm
beginning to wonder whether medication is appropriate at all in most
cases.


More fool you on that last.

http://www.cochrane.org/CD006742/HTN...on-are-unclear


Thats MILD hypertension, stupid.


That's the whole point. Most prescriptions are for what is now termed
"MILD" (diastolic 90-99). Which bit of the argument did you have trouble
with?
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On 06/04/2016 13:18, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:13:55 +0100, Stuart Noble
wrote:

I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives?


Garlic?

"Pharmacotherapy. 1993 Jul-Aug;13(4):406-7.
Can garlic lower blood pressure? A pilot study.
McMahon FG1, Vargas R.

Abstract

A popular garlic preparation containing 1.3% allicin at a large dose (2400 mg)
was evaluated in this open-label study in nine patients with rather severe
hypertension (diastolic blood pressure or = 115 mm Hg). Sitting blood pressure
fell 7/16 (+/- 3/2 SD) mm Hg at peak effect approximately 5 hours after the
dose, with a significant decrease in diastolic blood pressure (p 0.05) from
5-14 hours after the dose. No significant side effects were reported. Our
results indicate that this garlic preparation can reduce blood pressure. Further
controlled studies are needed, particularly with more conventional doses (e.g.,
or = 900 mg/day), in patients with mild to moderate hypertension and under
placebo-controlled, double-blind conditions.

PMID: 8361870 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] "


Thomas Prufer


Thanks. I already swallow a clove of garlic before breakfast so I guess
I'm already benefiting from that.
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Stuart Noble wrote:
On 06/04/2016 21:42, Rod Speed wrote:

Thats MILD hypertension, stupid.


That's the whole point. Most prescriptions are for what is now termed
"MILD" (diastolic 90-99). Which bit of the argument did you have trouble
with?


Please don't feed the troll.

Tim


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On 06/04/2016 13:13, Stuart Noble wrote:
IIRC there was some discussion recently about the above re blood
pressure. Having had some unpleasant experiences with the legal high
known as beta blockers (and now also with amlodipine), I'm determined to
get off medication altogether. I've got me a Nutri Ninja but I hate
beetroot, so anyone got any alternatives? Not that keen on kale either
as it happens :-)

I buy Cawston press beetroot juice which already has 10% apple juice but
I mix it 50/50 with grapefruit juice which makes it drinkable.
Grapefruit juice interacts with some medications so use Orange juice if
you are in that category.

According to the self-bp machine at my local surgery, my BP drops from
115/90 to 99/67 so it definately works for me.
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On 07/04/2016 09:20, Stuart Noble wrote:


Thanks. I already swallow a clove of garlic before breakfast so I guess
I'm already benefiting from that.


That will stop you from developing black spot too :-). Some people plant
garlic around their roses.

Also keeps people away from you on the tube. (that's *in* the tube for
German followers).
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On 06/04/2016 17:33, pamela wrote:

What was the cause of your high pulse rate?

You'll get fined in France in future :-)
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