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On 13/03/2016 10:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/16 10:10, tim... wrote:

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message



Yes. Exactly my view. There is also a perception that our bureaucrats
are better at enforcing legislation than those elsewhere in Europe.


they almost certainly are,

but coming out is not going to change that


No, but it may mean that we get to choose the legislation we enforce.


you wont get to choose anything, the rulers of this fair and prosperous
land will do that.
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On 13/03/16 12:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Was listening to Any Questions on the car radio today - so didn't hear all
of it.


Every time I hear an Outer talking is persudes me to vote In, but then
every time I head an Inner talking they persuade me to vote Out. Plaque
on both their houses.


Single issue pressure groups, all shouty shouty

Lot of sense, that. Politicians of all sides seem to have sunk to a new
low. Which I didn't think possible.

I blame it on all the advertising we're surrounded with. Far more than
once was the case. Most of which seems to be allowed to tell lies or half
truths. So people are getting brain washed into doing the same.


We should have had a vote whether we actually wanted this referendum.

Sorry, I'm unapologetic about that last sentence.

The time taken up by this could have been spent usefully examining how
the NHS is currently being dismantled, the ramifications of TTIP, how
global companies are stifling competition and how many are being pushed
into poverty and poorer working conditions for no fault of their own.

This In-Out indecision is probably killing UK orders and jobs right this
moment. Our lovely media is advertising it as instability to the rest of
the world. Great

I will vote though ...

--
Adrian C

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On 13/03/16 19:53, critcher wrote:
leaving would not allow us to do what we want, only to allow others to
do what they want to us, working time directive - gone. human rights- gone.
everything we have gained for the last 100 years - gone.


What an unadulterated load of wombat turds to be sure.

You must be a public sector spiv,.


--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)
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On 13/03/16 19:55, critcher wrote:


wot a load of bollux, we are in far more danger of low wages and no
houses from the *******s who are in charge of this country now.



You mean the general socialist left?


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"


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On 13/03/16 20:07, critcher wrote:
would not have thought


You had me at "would not have thought".



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"
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"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .


Because people will get more and more fed up with the bullying and hectoring that is
the hallmark of the EU approach, that's why.


Mummy, mummy, as well as being bullied, I'm being hectored
as well now .

You're being hectored Timmy, who by ?

A ginger haired girl called Angela is the leader of the gang mummy.

You're being hectored by a ginger, Timmy ?

Yes mummy.

Well I'll get onto Hesther Rantzen about this, straightaway.

Maybe she can set up a Hectoring Hotline.


michael adams

....






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On 13/03/2016 18:39, Jonno wrote:
dennis@home scribbled


On 13/03/2016 12:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
We are *forced* to import such things?

Yes. While ever Britain is in the EU, it can't ban imports
from other EU countrys that don?t bother to enforce the
legislation on the time between spraying and harvest.

Right. So everyone in the UK is *forced* to buy EU cauliflowers. And every
supermarket is *forced* to import them.

You must live in a very odd planet.


He obviously doesn't know that all the food stuff is tested and we have
had limits in place far longer than the EU regulations have been about.



Really. Got any proof of that statement?


How do you think all the food scares start?
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"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 13/03/2016 18:39, Jonno wrote:
dennis@home scribbled


On 13/03/2016 12:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
We are *forced* to import such things?

Yes. While ever Britain is in the EU, it can't ban imports
from other EU countrys that don?t bother to enforce the
legislation on the time between spraying and harvest.

Right. So everyone in the UK is *forced* to buy EU cauliflowers. And
every
supermarket is *forced* to import them.

You must live in a very odd planet.


He obviously doesn't know that all the food stuff is tested and we have
had limits in place far longer than the EU regulations have been about.



Really. Got any proof of that statement?


How do you think all the food scares start?


Someone else like Which etc tests them.

If all the food stuff is tested as you pig ignorantly claim,
it wouldn't be possible for horse meat to get thru, so
obviously all of it isn't actually tested, whatever you claim.

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In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/16 19:53, critcher wrote:
leaving would not allow us to do what we want, only to allow others to
do what they want to us, working time directive - gone. human rights-
gone. everything we have gained for the last 100 years - gone.


What an unadulterated load of wombat turds to be sure.


No need to reaffirm you want all human rights abolished. Apart from yours,
obviously.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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On 13/03/2016 22:15, Rod Speed wrote:


If all the food stuff is tested as you pig ignorantly claim,
it wouldn't be possible for horse meat to get thru, so
obviously all of it isn't actually tested, whatever you claim.


They found the horse meat by testing it.
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In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
On 13/03/2016 22:15, Rod Speed wrote:



If all the food stuff is tested as you pig ignorantly claim,
it wouldn't be possible for horse meat to get thru, so
obviously all of it isn't actually tested, whatever you claim.


They found the horse meat by testing it.


and they had no idea how much was actually in the food chain since it wa a
random test.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
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dennis@home wrote
Rod Speed wrote


If all the food stuff is tested as you pig ignorantly claim,
it wouldn't be possible for horse meat to get thru, so
obviously all of it isn't actually tested, whatever you claim.


They found the horse meat by testing it.


Only AFTER the **** had hit the fan and it was obvious
that horse meat was getting into the country.

That was NOT discovered by routine testing
of everything coming into the country.
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In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
Its called supply and demand, the sort of things socialists are in
denial of.


More immigrants = too many people chasing too few jobs = lower wages.


Exactly what the average right winger wants? The rich get richer while the
poor poorer?

But actually under the Conservative whom you loath so much the rich have
got poorer and the poor have got richer. But don't let an inconvenient
fact get in the way of a good rant.
More immigrants = increased demand on housing = higher house prices.


Exactly what the average right winger wants?

Is that any help?


So if you want higher wages and more affordable housing, that must make
you a socialist?


--
bert
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"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
Its called supply and demand, the sort of things socialists are in
denial of.


More immigrants = too many people chasing too few jobs = lower wages.


Exactly what the average right winger wants? The rich get richer while the
poor poorer?

But actually under the Conservative whom you loath so much the rich have
got poorer


That was mostly due to Labour allowing the economy
to be exposed when the **** hit the fan in 2008 etc.

and the poor have got richer.


That is very arguable indeed with the cuts in benefits
and those whose entire income is benefits.

But don't let an inconvenient fact


Calling it a fact doesn't make it a fact.

get in the way of a good rant.


More immigrants = increased demand on housing = higher house prices.


Exactly what the average right winger wants?

Is that any help?


So if you want higher wages and more affordable housing, that must make
you a socialist?





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In article ,
harry writes
On Sunday, 13 March 2016 08:09:13 UTC, Richard wrote:
"News" wrote in message ...

In message ,
writes

Every time I hear an Outer talking is persudes me to vote In
every time I head an Inner talking they persuade me to vote Out.

+1

I'm still undecided. Initially, I would have voted to stay in, without
much thought, then, after some listening and reading, I veered towards
out. Now, I just don't know, although stay seems favourite.

What is the EU really all about? Go back 60+ years and an integrated
Europe was about prevention of another European war. That was first and
foremost, at least from the British view.

No it wasn't. Maybe it was for the French who didn't want us in
especially De Gaulle.
Unity in the eh shape of NATO was to prevent the USSR from overrunning
western Europe, a very real threat in the immediate post war era.
Anything else was almost a
bonus.

Look at the possibility of a UK exit from the European side. Is it
really about Britain leaving, or about Britain setting a precedent?

It's about the UK ;leaving. What other countries do is up to them. If
they what to be part of the German Empire that's their problem
Were
we to leave, would any other countries follow? Not the recent members,
but any of the longer term 'traditional' European countries who also
feel hard done by?


Such as? Most countries are net beneficiaries so they won't leave and
they don't have the Uk's alternative links.
The possibility of the EU becoming Germany and all
the hangers on?

Well after all it was the deal Hitler offered us. He would have Europe
and we could keep our overseas empire.
Just suppose Brexit did result in other exits over time and, eventually,
to the downfall of Europe as we have known it since WWII.

Why do we always think we have responsibility for every one else in the
world. They can make up their own minds. But NATO will still be there
and as long as NATO around there will be no European war.
Just suppose
it did lead to another European war. Could I ever forgive myself if I
had voted out, even if I were six feet under by then?


Europe has already fallen. The war is happening right now.


That's probably true.


--
bert
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In article , Tim Streater
writes
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Just suppose Brexit did result in other exits over time and, eventually,
to the downfall of Europe as we have known it since WWII. Just suppose
it did lead to another European war. Could I ever forgive myself if I
had voted out, even if I were six feet under by then?

Don't be silly.

We already have had two European wars since the EU - the Cold war and
the Islamic war.


And the war in the Balkans. And the massacres there, which all that UN
bull**** failed to prevent.

The last UN war that was effective was Korea.

And that was very thin cover for an American lead war.
--
bert
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In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
News wrote:
This is going to rumble on for years. Whichever side wins, the defeated
side will blame every misfortune on the result, even though such cannot
possibly be foreseen, at least not with any real accuracy.


Quite. Which is an argument for the status quo.
Lets face it, our politicians etc are very poor at predicting the future
of things which are totally under their control. But expect us to believe
them on what will happen if we leave Europe.

And equally they expect us to believe that the EU will be "reformed" if
we stay without any indication of what those reforms might be.
--
bert
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"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , harry
writes
On Sunday, 13 March 2016 08:09:13 UTC, Richard wrote:
"News" wrote in message ...

In message ,
writes

Every time I hear an Outer talking is persudes me to vote In
every time I head an Inner talking they persuade me to vote Out.

+1

I'm still undecided. Initially, I would have voted to stay in, without
much thought, then, after some listening and reading, I veered towards
out. Now, I just don't know, although stay seems favourite.

What is the EU really all about? Go back 60+ years and an integrated
Europe was about prevention of another European war. That was first
and
foremost, at least from the British view.


No it wasn't.


Yes it was for most western european countries.

Maybe it was for the French


No maybe about it, and not just for the French either.

who didn't want us in especially De Gaulle.


Unity in the eh shape of NATO


NATO wasn't about unity.

was to prevent the USSR from overrunning western Europe,


Yes.

a very real threat in the immediate post war era.


That was never going to happen.

Anything else was almost a
bonus.

Look at the possibility of a UK exit from the European side. Is it
really about Britain leaving, or about Britain setting a precedent?


It's about the UK ;leaving.


Bet it isn't for the majority.

What other countries do is up to them.


That isnt what the EU thinks.

If they what to be part of the German Empire


Even sillier than you usually manage.
That isn't why anyone else joined the EU.

that's their problem


Not a problem for them, they aren't the ones wanting to leave.

Were
we to leave, would any other countries follow? Not the recent members,
but any of the longer term 'traditional' European countries who also
feel hard done by?


Such as? Most countries are net beneficiaries


So is Britain.

so they won't leave and they don't have the Uk's alternative links.


Britain doesn't have any alternative links that matter anymore.

The US cares a lot more about trade with the EU than
Britain essentially because there is **** all trade with
Britain anymore and nothing they can only get from there
that isnt available regardless of whether Britain stays in
the EU or not.

The possibility of the EU becoming Germany and all
the hangers on?

Well after all it was the deal Hitler offered us. He would have Europe and
we could keep our overseas empire.


Yes, but the empire would never have lasted even if Britain
had gone that route and Japan would still have done what
it did, essentially because they had no choice on that after
the sanctions imposed after the rape of Nanking etc.

Just suppose Brexit did result in other exits over time and,
eventually,
to the downfall of Europe as we have known it since WWII.


Why do we always think we have responsibility for every one else in the
world.


No one ever said Britain did, but it certainly has quite a bit
of the responsibility for the complete and utter shambles
that it produced in the middle east and in Africa etc.

They can make up their own minds.


But he is talking about a situation where the EU stops
being viable because Britain chooses to leave and others
choose to leave after Britain has chosen to leave.

Very unlikely that Britain will chose to leave
IMO and even less likely that any other country
will just because Britain has chosen to leave.

But NATO will still be there


NATO is completely irrelevant now except in the sense
that the EU chooses to get involved in stuff like the
collapse of Yugoslavia and with the Ukraine etc.

and as long as NATO around there will be no European war.


There will be no western european war again now,
essentially because the Marshall Plan after WW2 had
ended meant that no country would be in such a
desperate situation like Germany was between the wars
so that they had nothing to lose in a full world war.

Nothing to do with NATO which as you correctly said
was about the USSR, not another world war started in
western europe again.

Just suppose
it did lead to another European war. Could I ever forgive myself if I
had voted out, even if I were six feet under by then?

Europe has already fallen. The war is happening right now.


That's probably true.


Nope, mindlessly silly.

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"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Tim Streater
writes
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Just suppose Brexit did result in other exits over time and,
eventually,
to the downfall of Europe as we have known it since WWII. Just suppose
it did lead to another European war. Could I ever forgive myself if I
had voted out, even if I were six feet under by then?
Don't be silly.

We already have had two European wars since the EU - the Cold war and the
Islamic war.


And the war in the Balkans. And the massacres there, which all that UN
bull**** failed to prevent.

The last UN war that was effective was Korea.

And that was very thin cover for an American lead war.


Nothing thin about it. And America didn't get involved
in Malaya, and forced Britain and France to get out of Suez.



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"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
News wrote:
This is going to rumble on for years. Whichever side wins, the defeated
side will blame every misfortune on the result, even though such cannot
possibly be foreseen, at least not with any real accuracy.


Quite. Which is an argument for the status quo.
Lets face it, our politicians etc are very poor at predicting the future
of things which are totally under their control. But expect us to believe
them on what will happen if we leave Europe.

And equally they expect us to believe that the EU will be "reformed" if we
stay


Yes they do.

without any indication of what those reforms might be.


That is a bare faced lie.

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"Sam Crean" wrote in message ...

**** off rod
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"Richard" wrote in message
...
"Sam Crean" wrote in message ...

**** off rod


Go and **** yourself, gutless.

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