Warning - long ramble.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-once-a-week-
polluting-environment

Interesting use of statistics.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres. So a family of four each
having a daily 10-minute power shower (I know that is a very conservative
estimate for some teenagers) will consume a staggering 0.25m litres of
water every year. The annual average cost for electricity for four 10-
minute showers per day would be up to about £400, or £1,200 if a power
shower is involved. Even worse, the power-shower family would be emitting
a staggering 3.5 tonnes of CO2. As we can afford only one tonne of carbon
emissions per person €“ for everything from food to transport €“ if we are
to keep global temperatures below the critical 2C threshold, this would
consume nearly all of the familys carbon budget."

For all you DIYers, some of these figures may seem a little strange.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water"

Well, at 6 litres per minute this must be a pretty feeble shower -
although I sized our combi to heat 15 litres per minute so it could
service two showers. However that was 15 litres of hot water, and doesn't
count the mixed in cold.

http://www.harwoodandassociates.co.u...low-rates-for-
taps-showers-and-baths/

has some rule of thumb figures, but my brain started to hurt trying to
compare everything.

It does say of power showers "A 12 minute shower with a flow rate of 15 l/m
would use 180 litres of water." which seems to tie in with the "three
times" figure for normal vs power shower.

Using Google for bath volume, I find
http://www.waterwise.org.uk/news.php...facts-figures-
and-misconceptions
from 2011 which seems to be remarkably similar to this 2016 puff piece but
with the opposite spin.

Although it has an 8 minute shower using 62 litres of water.

Using the site from above:

http://www.harwoodandassociates.co.u...es-a-bath-use/


"According to BS6700 a standard 1700mm x 700mm bath uses approximately 100
litres of water at 40C. This is split into 60% hot and 40% cold water
when hot water is stored at 60C."
So about 60l of hot water from store or combi.

But, of course, the variable volumes are only the start.

"The annual average cost for electricity for four 10-minute showers per
day would be up to about £400, or £1,200 if a power shower is involved"

Note the words "up to" - often used in shop SALE signs as "up to 50%
reduction" where all but one item has only 5-10% knocked off.

We (like many others) have a gas combi boiler which provides our hot
water. I am struggling to see how I use anywhere near £400 (or £100 per
person) when I shower using a mains pressure gas combi.

On flow rates, the Triton Aire fitted to our bath has a maximum flow rate
of 15.5 l/min at 1 bar (or 8 l/min with the flow limiter fitted). I've
grumbled in thread passim about the seemingly weedy flow. Not yet measured
it but 6 l/min for the average shower does seem slow.

Googling for flow rates for electric showers doesn't seem to turn up much
from the manufacturer, however:

https://ask-a-saint.silversaints.com...ctric-showers-
testing-the-water-inlet-pressure-and-flow-rate

says "For a 8.5KW or 9.5KW Triton showers the minimum required water
pressure is 1.0 Bar with a minimum flow rate of 8 litres per minute.
A Mira 8.5KW or 9.5 KW showers only require a maintained water pressure of
0.7 Bar and 8 litres per minute. This is one of the primary reasons we
always specify a Mira shower over Triton."

Which suggests that 6l/min is too low for your average electric shower!
However to give an electricity cost of £100 per year per user they must
surely be using an electric shower (or possibly immersion heater?).

O.K. - well into a long ramble.

Anyway, so far we may have established that the minimum flow rate for a
modern electric shower is around 8 l/min, and DIYers may well note that
electric showers are generally held to be not very good compared to a tank
or combi system, which suggests a satisfying shower could require 10 l/min
even with an "Economy" shower head.

TL;DR I am a little surprised that the average (I think) flow rate for a
shower at around 10 l/min would fill the average 100 l bath in 10 minutes.
Then again although shower time is an alternative Universe I don't think I
spend an average of 10 minutes under the shower.

I leave the "Even worse, the power-shower family would be emitting a
staggering 3.5 tonnes of CO2. As we can afford only one tonne of carbon
emissions per person €“ for everything from food to transport €“ if we are
to keep global temperatures below the critical 2C threshold, this would
consume nearly all of the familys carbon budget." for the dedicated
environmentalists on this NG to debate.

Pro tip - "Get out of that shower, Jennifer, you're destroying the
planet!" may have more moral high ground than effectiveness.

Oh, and don't use soap because this ex-ballet dancer once met someone who
had a bad reaction.

Cheers

Dave R



--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

David wrote:
Warning - long ramble.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-once-a-week-
polluting-environment

Interesting use of statistics.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres. So a family of four each
having a daily 10-minute power shower (I know that is a very conservative
estimate for some teenagers) will consume a staggering 0.25m litres of
water every year. The annual average cost for electricity for four 10-
minute showers per day would be up to about £400, or £1,200 if a power
shower is involved. Even worse, the power-shower family would be emitting
a staggering 3.5 tonnes of CO2. As we can afford only one tonne of carbon
emissions per person €“ for everything from food to transport €“ if we are
to keep global temperatures below the critical 2C threshold, this would
consume nearly all of the familys carbon budget."

For all you DIYers, some of these figures may seem a little strange.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water"

The "average" 10-minute shower?

They made that bit up, I'll bet.

Like 27.4% of all statistics. :-)

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

David quoted:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...

David wrote:
Warning - long ramble.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-once-a-week-
polluting-environment

Interesting use of statistics.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses

Am I the only person that has, out of interest, put the plug in the bath
waste, and had a shower in it? I use a bit more water having a shower
than I do a bath. Having said that, once I'm in the bath, there isn't
much room left for any water :-)

On 09/03/2016 13:59, Andy Burns wrote:
David quoted:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower
uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...


http://www.waterwise.org.uk/news.php...misconceptions

"According to the study, the average eight-minute shower used 62 litres
of hot water, and some power showers can use up to 136 litres, compared
with an average bath's 80 litres. ...

Our own research shows that a 'waterwise shower' €“ getting the job done
in four minutes under a water-efficient showerhead €“uses just 32 litres."


If I have a bath, I often let some of the water out, so I can run more
hot in. I wonder whether that's been allowed for?


So, let me see, it all depends on:
How big a bath, how full you fill it, and whether you refill it.
How long a shower you take, and how powerful the stream of water is.

Who could possibly have expected that?

David wrote:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres.

So my guilt (ha, ha) at having regular baths is totally ill-founded,
they only use 30% or so more water than tha average shower?

--
Chris Green
·

Andy Burns wrote:
David quoted:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...

However probably fuller than you'd have a bath surely. I generally
have a bath deep enough to cover my legs (with me in the bath) so
that's probably rather less than 1/4 full.

--
Chris Green
·

On 09/03/2016 14:30, wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
David quoted:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...

However probably fuller than you'd have a bath surely. I generally
have a bath deep enough to cover my legs (with me in the bath) so
that's probably rather less than 1/4 full.


If I have a bath, the water always comes up to the overflow (with me in
it).

GB wrote:

wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end

However probably fuller than you'd have a bath surely.

If I have a bath, the water always comes up to the overflow (with me in
it).

ditto.

In message , Dan S. MacAbre
writes

Am I the only person that has, out of interest, put the plug in the
bath waste, and had a shower in it?

Absolutely not. Good to soak the feet whilst showering. As someone
else said, a couple of inches of water. What I can't understand is why
wimmin take so long, even without the dreaded hair washing episode. I
just get in, quick twirl to wet the bod, apply soap, another twirl to
rinse, water off, out. How difficult can it be?

--
Graeme

wrote:
Andy wrote:

David quoted:


"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...


However probably fuller than you'd have a bath surely. I generally
have a bath deep enough to cover my legs (with me in the bath) so
that's probably rather less than 1/4 full.



Personally, I use about 200L per bath, soaking tub.

Electricity consumption with a power shower? Can you get all electric ones?

--
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , News
writes
In message , Dan S. MacAbre
writes

Am I the only person that has, out of interest, put the plug in the
bath waste, and had a shower in it?

Absolutely not. Good to soak the feet whilst showering. As someone
else said, a couple of inches of water. What I can't understand is why
wimmin take so long, even without the dreaded hair washing episode. I
just get in, quick twirl to wet the bod, apply soap, another twirl to
rinse, water off, out. How difficult can it be?

You missed shaving their legs.


--
Tim Lamb

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , News
writes
In message , Dan S. MacAbre
writes

Am I the only person that has, out of interest, put the plug in the
bath waste, and had a shower in it?

Absolutely not. Good to soak the feet whilst showering. As someone
else said, a couple of inches of water. What I can't understand is why
wimmin take so long, even without the dreaded hair washing episode. I
just get in, quick twirl to wet the bod, apply soap, another twirl to
rinse, water off, out. How difficult can it be?

You missed shaving their legs.

Saves the need for a plug in the bath. Ever.

--
*The best cure for sea sickness, is to sit under a tree.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/03/2016 17:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Electricity consumption with a power shower? Can you get all electric ones?

Immersion heater for hot water plus power shower (we are trying to make
these figures as bad as possible remember)

--
Chris B (News)

On 09/03/16 15:31, Huge wrote:
On 2016-03-09, GB wrote:
On 09/03/2016 14:30, wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
David quoted:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...

However probably fuller than you'd have a bath surely. I generally
have a bath deep enough to cover my legs (with me in the bath) so
that's probably rather less than 1/4 full.


If I have a bath, the water always comes up to the overflow (with me in
it).

Why are you in the overflow?


THat, would be telling.

And then I'd have to shoot you.


--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

On 09/03/2016 14:30, wrote:

However probably fuller than you'd have a bath surely. I generally
have a bath deep enough to cover my legs (with me in the bath) so
that's probably rather less than 1/4 full.


I tried that but it overflows before it gets to my knees.

En el artículo , Mike Barnes
escribió:

The "average" 10-minute shower?

I enjoy my daily shower under a giant shower rose. 10 minutes is about
right.

**** the environment, it's one of life's little luxuries that I allow
myself. I don't need some lefty**** Grauniad reader wittering on in my
ear about how I'm clubbing baby seals.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

"News" wrote in message
...
In message , Dan S. MacAbre
writes

Am I the only person that has, out of interest, put the plug in the bath
waste, and had a shower in it?

Absolutely not. Good to soak the feet whilst showering. As someone else
said, a couple of inches of water. What I can't understand is why wimmin
take so long, even without the dreaded hair washing episode. I just get
in, quick twirl to wet the bod, apply soap, another twirl to rinse, water
off, out. How difficult can it be?

Are you one of those twirling dervishes ?

In article , Mike Tomlinson
scribeth thus
En el artículo , Mike Barnes
escribió:

The "average" 10-minute shower?

I enjoy my daily shower under a giant shower rose. 10 minutes is about
right.

**** the environment, it's one of life's little luxuries that I allow
myself. I don't need some lefty**** Grauniad reader wittering on in my
ear about how I'm clubbing baby seals.


Yep same here around 10 mins under a Mira power shower set to hammer
rather than vibrate does the olde arthritis a power of good...


Gas heated mind...
--
Tony Sayer

On 09/03/2016 13:27, David wrote:
Warning - long ramble.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-once-a-week-
polluting-environment

Shock horror, gruniad article that is technically illiterate...

Interesting use of statistics.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres. So a family of four each

Well those are all questionable...

The water usage of the shower will of course vary with the flow rate. 6
lpm is tad low for a decent shower - but 8 to 10 lpm would be rated as
fairly good by most.

The average bath will use more than 80L - 100 to 120L is more common.

having a daily 10-minute power shower (I know that is a very conservative

A power shower is unlikely to use 3x the water - unless you are talking
about something with a giant soaker head and additional body jets. Most
people use them to get back to a sensible shower in cases where the
unpumped option is a crap one.

estimate for some teenagers) will consume a staggering 0.25m litres of
water every year. The annual average cost for electricity for four 10-
minute showers per day would be up to about £400, or £1,200 if a power

Well lets say their 60L is right[1], that's 240L/day (although 4 people
showering every day is probably excessive for most houses). That makes
87,600 L/year - so not sure where the quarter million figure comes from.
If we assume a required average temperature rise of 35 deg C, that's and
energy requirement of 876000 x 4200 x 35 = 12.8GJ or 3577 kWh or about
£456 if heated electrically at the price I buy electricity. Obviously
electric heating is not the way to go with that kind of usage. At my
current gas price that would be about £100 (allowing for some
inefficiency in the boiler)

[1] its probably very low - I know if two people have consecutive
showers here, it swallows most of the 210L cylinder, and that is mixed
with additional cold!

shower is involved. Even worse, the power-shower family would be emitting
a staggering 3.5 tonnes of CO2. As we can afford only one tonne of carbon
emissions per person €“ for everything from food to transport €“ if we are
to keep global temperatures below the critical 2C threshold, this would
consume nearly all of the familys carbon budget."

That's a pretty poor para really... I was not aware it was critical to
keep global temperatures below 2C - that's going to need a bit of an ice
age!

I can't be bothered to work out how they derived the CO2 figure.

For all you DIYers, some of these figures may seem a little strange.

Indeed.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water"

Well, at 6 litres per minute this must be a pretty feeble shower -

Its on the low end of nearly ok IME. Its well in excess of what you will
get out of an electric shower in the winter.

although I sized our combi to heat 15 litres per minute so it could
service two showers. However that was 15 litres of hot water, and doesn't
count the mixed in cold.

To be fair, when the combi is working flat out, that will be with a 35
deg temp lift - so you will be using its output at close to final
temperature with very little cold added.

(assuming its a ~35kW combi)

http://www.harwoodandassociates.co.u...low-rates-for-
taps-showers-and-baths/

has some rule of thumb figures, but my brain started to hurt trying to
compare everything.

It does say of power showers "A 12 minute shower with a flow rate of 15 l/m
would use 180 litres of water." which seems to tie in with the "three
times" figure for normal vs power shower.

The figure for a "normal" shower is low, and 15 is a bit high for power
shower in many cases.

Using Google for bath volume, I find
http://www.waterwise.org.uk/news.php...facts-figures-
and-misconceptions
from 2011 which seems to be remarkably similar to this 2016 puff piece but
with the opposite spin.

Although it has an 8 minute shower using 62 litres of water.

that gives nearer 8 lpm which is probably a better figure.

Using the site from above:

http://www.harwoodandassociates.co.u...es-a-bath-use/


"According to BS6700 a standard 1700mm x 700mm bath uses approximately 100
litres of water at 40C. This is split into 60% hot and 40% cold water
when hot water is stored at 60C."

So about 60l of hot water from store or combi.

No, 60L from store, but getting on for 100L from the combi (most users
will demand full output from the combi for bath filling - there is no
real advantage to taking less than full unless you like running baths
slowly!)

(i.e. set the combi water temp limit to 60, and it will not deliver
water hotter than 60. However demand too much flow rate from it and that
temp will fall)

But, of course, the variable volumes are only the start.

"The annual average cost for electricity for four 10-minute showers per
day would be up to about £400, or £1,200 if a power shower is involved"

If you take their figures, those could be plausible - but see above.

Note the words "up to" - often used in shop SALE signs as "up to 50%
reduction" where all but one item has only 5-10% knocked off.

We (like many others) have a gas combi boiler which provides our hot
water. I am struggling to see how I use anywhere near £400 (or £100 per
person) when I shower using a mains pressure gas combi.

It won't be anything like that with gas at a quarter or less of the
price per kWh than lekky.

On flow rates, the Triton Aire fitted to our bath has a maximum flow rate
of 15.5 l/min at 1 bar (or 8 l/min with the flow limiter fitted). I've
grumbled in thread passim about the seemingly weedy flow. Not yet measured
it but 6 l/min for the average shower does seem slow.

Yes, but not by a huge amount.

Googling for flow rates for electric showers doesn't seem to turn up much
from the manufacturer, however:

https://ask-a-saint.silversaints.com...ctric-showers-
testing-the-water-inlet-pressure-and-flow-rate

says "For a 8.5KW or 9.5KW Triton showers the minimum required water
pressure is 1.0 Bar with a minimum flow rate of 8 litres per minute.

The pressure requirement is straight forward. The flow rate however is
not a measure of what the shower can deliver, but just ensuring there is
little chance that other users in the house won't starve the shower of
water, causing its flow rate supply to fall below that which it can
deliver.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ting_the_Power

You will note that the best electric shower will not even manage 5 lpm
in the winter (assuming you want the water warm that is!)

A Mira 8.5KW or 9.5 KW showers only require a maintained water pressure of
0.7 Bar and 8 litres per minute. This is one of the primary reasons we
always specify a Mira shower over Triton."

Can't really see the logic unless you have a very poor mains pressure.
Most areas will get at least 1 bar of mains pressure.

Which suggests that 6l/min is too low for your average electric shower!

No, its *way* too high.

4 lpm in the winter, rising to 5.75 in the summer perhaps if you have a
10kW shower.

However to give an electricity cost of £100 per year per user they must
surely be using an electric shower (or possibly immersion heater?).

Assuming the cylinder is lagged is does not make much difference.

O.K. - well into a long ramble.

Anyway, so far we may have established that the minimum flow rate for a
modern electric shower is around 8 l/min, and DIYers may well note that

or not...

electric showers are generally held to be not very good compared to a tank
or combi system, which suggests a satisfying shower could require 10 l/min
even with an "Economy" shower head.

I would say, you can go down to 7 or 8 lpm, but yup ten is quite nice.

TL;DR I am a little surprised that the average (I think) flow rate for a
shower at around 10 l/min would fill the average 100 l bath in 10 minutes.

Erm why?

10 x 10 is traditionally 100

Then again although shower time is an alternative Universe I don't think I
spend an average of 10 minutes under the shower.

I find it easy to spend more than 10 mins...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/03/2016 14:30, wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
David quoted:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...

However probably fuller than you'd have a bath surely. I generally
have a bath deep enough to cover my legs (with me in the bath) so
that's probably rather less than 1/4 full.

I suspect you are narrower than some of us!

I find modern shallow baths are not deep enough to keep parts from
sitting out of the water and getting chilly!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/03/2016 17:16, News wrote:
In message , Dan S. MacAbre
writes

Am I the only person that has, out of interest, put the plug in the
bath waste, and had a shower in it?

Absolutely not. Good to soak the feet whilst showering. As someone
else said, a couple of inches of water. What I can't understand is why
wimmin take so long, even without the dreaded hair washing episode. I
just get in, quick twirl to wet the bod, apply soap, another twirl to
rinse, water off, out. How difficult can it be?

What about letting the hot water massage the aching limbs after a bit of
hard DIY ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/03/16 20:21, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/03/2016 17:16, News wrote:
In message , Dan S. MacAbre
writes

Am I the only person that has, out of interest, put the plug in the
bath waste, and had a shower in it?

Absolutely not. Good to soak the feet whilst showering. As someone
else said, a couple of inches of water. What I can't understand is why
wimmin take so long, even without the dreaded hair washing episode. I
just get in, quick twirl to wet the bod, apply soap, another twirl to
rinse, water off, out. How difficult can it be?

What about letting the hot water massage the aching limbs after a bit of
hard DIY ;-)



That's the best! Super hot water, plenty of it...

I find I get headaches in the cold quite often that disappear in a hot
shower to the upper parts.

John Rumm wrote:

I find modern shallow baths are not deep enough to keep parts from
sitting out of the water and getting chilly!

That's why I've got a 1900x800 bath waiting to be fitted ... so I can
get my knees down and lean back without causing a tidal wave.

John Rumm wrote:

I find modern shallow baths are not deep enough to keep parts from
sitting out of the water and getting chilly!


Try a soaking tub.

GB wrote:
On 09/03/2016 14:30, wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
David quoted:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...

However probably fuller than you'd have a bath surely. I generally
have a bath deep enough to cover my legs (with me in the bath) so
that's probably rather less than 1/4 full.


If I have a bath, the water always comes up to the overflow (with me in
it).

No wonder the 'average bath' uses so much water! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 20:16:23 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

massive snip

TL;DR I am a little surprised that the average (I think) flow rate for
a shower at around 10 l/min would fill the average 100 l bath in 10
minutes.

Erm why?

10 x 10 is traditionally 100

Then again although shower time is an alternative Universe I don't
think I spend an average of 10 minutes under the shower.

I find it easy to spend more than 10 mins...

Poor wording on my part.

Shall I say that I find it hard to believe that my average shower would
fill the bath. Hence some doubt over the derived figures.

As others have noted, the answer is to put the plug in and see if the bath
overflows :-)

Although out bath is a "shower bath" which is wider in the shower area
with a glass screen.

Stop watch seems a little anally retentive.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On 09/03/16 13:27, David wrote:
Warning - long ramble.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-once-a-week-
polluting-environment

Interesting use of statistics.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres.

Hmmm... now wondering.

One of the reasons folks stay a long time in the shower is the effort it
takes to soap and dance about to make sure the job is thorough enough.
Bit like washing plates under a running tap. Long....

How about designing an automated shower machine on the water saving
principles of a dishwasher? Sit in a box like thing and get blasted by
spinning soap filled jets, followed by a rinse cycle.

Could also build in a sauna function....

Kickstarter?

--
Adrian C

"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 09/03/16 13:27, David wrote:
Warning - long ramble.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-once-a-week-
polluting-environment

Interesting use of statistics.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower
uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres.

Hmmm... now wondering.

One of the reasons folks stay a long time in the shower is the effort it
takes to soap and dance about to make sure the job is thorough enough. Bit
like washing plates under a running tap. Long....

How about designing an automated shower machine on the water saving
principles of a dishwasher? Sit in a box like thing and get blasted by
spinning soap filled jets, followed by a rinse cycle.

Doesnt work for the head. A shower does.

Could also build in a sauna function....

Kickstarter?

En el artículo , Adrian Caspersz
escribió:

How about designing an automated shower machine on the water saving
principles of a dishwasher? Sit in a box like thing and get blasted by
spinning soap filled jets, followed by a rinse cycle.

The Japanese have done it with toilets, so, scaled up a bit...

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 09/03/2016 17:16, News wrote:

Absolutely not. Good to soak the feet whilst showering. As someone
else said, a couple of inches of water. What I can't understand is why
wimmin take so long, even without the dreaded hair washing episode. I
just get in, quick twirl to wet the bod, apply soap, another twirl to
rinse, water off, out. How difficult can it be?

What about letting the hot water massage the aching limbs after a bit
of hard DIY ;-)

There a times when a long hot soak in the bath beats having a shower :-)
--
Graeme

In message , Adrian Caspersz
writes
On 09/03/16 13:27, David wrote:
Warning - long ramble.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-once-a-week-
polluting-environment

Interesting use of statistics.

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres.

Hmmm... now wondering.

One of the reasons folks stay a long time in the shower is the effort
it takes to soap and dance about to make sure the job is thorough
enough. Bit like washing plates under a running tap. Long....

Shower gell dispenser and sponge? Wash the bits facing away from the
shower head and then turn round. Mind, I use a 1200x800 shower rather
than struggle in a bath.

--
Tim Lamb

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Mike Barnes
escribió:

The "average" 10-minute shower?

I enjoy my daily shower under a giant shower rose. 10 minutes is about
right.

Nothing wrong with that of course, but I question whether it's typical
or average.

I know my shower's flow rate because I measured it after the last
plumbing works, and it's 32 litres per minute, which is quite high. I
timed this morning's shower and the water was running for three minutes [*]. So in rough terms that's 100 litres. I take a bath only when I want
a proper soak, so I completely fill the bath, which is 180 litres (six
minutes fill time).

And no, I'm not typical either.

[*] It does take a lot longer to shower away from home if there's only a
pathetic dribble of water.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

. Mind, I use a 1200x800 shower rather
than struggle in a bath.

2500mm x 2000mm

Wet room.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On 10/03/16 08:40, Mike Barnes wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Mike Barnes
escribió:

The "average" 10-minute shower?

I enjoy my daily shower under a giant shower rose. 10 minutes is about
right.

Nothing wrong with that of course, but I question whether it's typical
or average.

I know my shower's flow rate because I measured it after the last
plumbing works, and it's 32 litres per minute, which is quite high.

It's *very* high - my entire mains flow at the main stopcock inside is
55l/min (I measured it with a bit of 22mm into a builder's bucket.


I
timed this morning's shower and the water was running for three minutes
[*]. So in rough terms that's 100 litres. I take a bath only when I want
a proper soak, so I completely fill the bath, which is 180 litres (six
minutes fill time).

And no, I'm not typical either.


[*] It does take a lot longer to shower away from home if there's only a
pathetic dribble of water.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:14:56 +0000, David wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 20:16:23 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

massive snip

TL;DR I am a little surprised that the average (I think) flow rate for
a shower at around 10 l/min would fill the average 100 l bath in 10
minutes.

Erm why?

10 x 10 is traditionally 100

Then again although shower time is an alternative Universe I don't
think I spend an average of 10 minutes under the shower.

I find it easy to spend more than 10 mins...

Poor wording on my part.

Shall I say that I find it hard to believe that my average shower would
fill the bath. Hence some doubt over the derived figures.

As others have noted, the answer is to put the plug in and see if the
bath overflows :-)

Although out bath is a "shower bath" which is wider in the shower area
with a glass screen.

Stop watch seems a little anally retentive.

Remembered to do this today.

The water didn't even cover the arches on top of my feet, let alone lap
around my ankles.

Being aware of the test probably shortened the "dream time" under the
shower but I don't think I can have a particularly high flow rate.

The time for flow rate measurement comes ever closer....


--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Wednesday, 9 March 2016 14:21:15 UTC, GB wrote:
On 09/03/2016 13:59, Andy Burns wrote:
David quoted:

"The average 10-minute shower uses 60 litres of water. A power shower
uses
three times that and a bath about 80 litres

If I put the plug in while having a power shower, the bath is about half
full by the end, not flooding the bathroom as that suggests ...


http://www.waterwise.org.uk/news.php...misconceptions

"According to the study, the average eight-minute shower used 62 litres
of hot water, and some power showers can use up to 136 litres, compared
with an average bath's 80 litres. ...

Our own research shows that a 'waterwise shower' - getting the job done
in four minutes under a water-efficient showerhead -uses just 32 litres."


If I have a bath, I often let some of the water out, so I can run more
hot in. I wonder whether that's been allowed for?

They haven't mentioned anything about how efective a shower and bath are.
is a 10 miniute shower as effective as a 30 min bath ?
I wouldn;t bother getting in the bath for less than 30 mins usually I'm in for at least an hour.

And it's not as much fun farting in the shower as it is in the bath.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Warning - long ramble.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-once-a-week-
polluting-environment

Shock horror, gruniad article that is technically illiterate...

Long time since I've bought any newspaper, but are you implying there are
others which are generally technically literate?

--
*It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/03/2016 19:46, Jonno wrote:

GB is the turnip's sock. Naughty

Am I? Damned if I knew that! Who is the Turnip?