This is on behalf on an elderely friend, who has one of these that is
suffering from 'i'm dead with a lockout'.

Resetting doesn't fix it, and a bit-of-cowboy plumber looked at it and
pronounced the igniter dead, and the pump leaking and suggested a whole
new burner assembly.


He claimed the oil from a leaking pump had dripped on the igniter
transformer and shorted it. Oil is however an insulator.

He also claimed it hadn't been serviced for years (it had).

Certainly there was no sound of sparking although the pump did spin up.

Anyone got any useful advice to offer in terms of what may have gone,
what it should cost to get it fixed and where to get parts if local
plumbers do a teeth suck and start talking silly money? Or 'cant get the
parts for that mate: You needs a new boiler'

Heat exchanger looks OK ish.



--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

Cannot offer any advice but can empathise with you. Our last house had a Bosch Greenstar service boiler which developed an intermittent fault causing it to trip out usually on start up and very rarely in mid session. At the time we had a service and maintenance contract with Eon. I told the first service guy it had all the hallmarks of an electronic issue, but no. So said the procession of other guys who turned up every two weeks to replace some component or other. Eventually having replaced just about everything except the heat exchanger and the PCB an engineer turned up and announced after much head scratching and as a result of a process of elimination it had to be the PCB. This was duly replaced and problem finally solved. Fortunetly I was retired at the time but would have been mightily annoyed at the time off work the repair would have required not to mention the inconvenience of the heating being off. The only positive from it was that we virtually ended up with a complete new boiler which the last service engineer grudgingly pointed out to me.

There got it of my chest!

Richard

On 24/01/16 17:26, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Cannot offer any advice but can empathise with you. Our last house
had a Bosch Greenstar service boiler which developed an intermittent
fault causing it to trip out usually on start up and very rarely in
mid session. At the time we had a service and maintenance contract
with Eon. I told the first service guy it had all the hallmarks of an
electronic issue, but no. So said the procession of other guys who
turned up every two weeks to replace some component or other.
Eventually having replaced just about everything except the heat
exchanger and the PCB an engineer turned up and announced after much
head scratching and as a result of a process of elimination it had to
be the PCB. This was duly replaced and problem finally solved.
Fortunetly I was retired at the time but would have been mightily
annoyed at the time off work the repair would have required not to
mention the inconvenience of the heating being off. The only positive
from it was that we virtually ended up with a complete new boiler
which the last service engineer grudgingly pointed out to me.

There got it of my chest!

Richard


Yeah. Been looking at the damned thing and a new burner assy looks like
£500+.

The guy is 75, semi retired (actor) and has a cold house and precious
little money to spend.

Nothing has been fixed for years there's a dicky motorised valve that
leaves the boiler on all the time, and even the immersion heater ist
working, either..


Doesn't qualify for a grant because he's not a scrounging benefits *******.

Maybe a S/H oil system boiler is the way to go.



--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

Can you tell us what make of burner you are referring to? Myson used a number of variants, most common being Riello. Is the burner enclosed in a red metal box or is it "bare".
I'd make a stab in the dark that it's a bare Riello (same thing inside the red metal case if thats what you have).
If my guess is correct the burner sequence control is a grey plastic box on top of the burner unit. This box controls everything and contains the ignition generator, holds the flame detector photocell etc.
If the photocell has suffered heat damage or has gone short circuit the sequence control will "think" a flame is present before it should be and go through an abbreviated sequence to "false light lockout" No ignition spark will be produced during the run to lockout.
If you have a different model of burner the story will be slightly different so check and come back.
NB the photocell is a simple plug in unit. However if the problem began with an oil leak that needs dealing with pdq.

On 24/01/16 18:11, wrote:
Can you tell us what make of burner you are referring to? Myson used
a number of variants, most common being Riello. Is the burner
enclosed in a red metal box or is it "bare".

I'll take a picture tomorrow and post it up somewhere. It looks older
than the generic Riellos I have seen

I'd make a stab in the
dark that it's a bare Riello (same thing inside the red metal case if
thats what you have). If my guess is correct the burner sequence
control is a grey plastic box on top of the burner unit. This box
controls everything and contains the ignition generator, holds the
flame detector photocell etc. If the photocell has suffered heat
damage or has gone short circuit the sequence control will "think" a
flame is present before it should be and go through an abbreviated
sequence to "false light lockout" No ignition spark will be produced
during the run to lockout.

Now that may be a thing to test.


If you have a different model of burner
the story will be slightly different so check and come back. NB the
photocell is a simple plug in unit. However if the problem began with
an oil leak that needs dealing with pdq.

Well I am not sure that that was the original problem. Its always smelt
a bit of oil, but then many boilers do....


If I take a picture, would you be able to help me get to some kind o0f
diagnosis?




--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

If you can take a picture I'm happy to try to help. The three most common oil leaks on Riello burners are the air slide ram (if fitted), the pump shaft (often accompanied by a failed pump end motor bearing) and embrittled oil line flexy hoses especially those with external metal braid. Oil flexy hoses should be replaced every few years.

On 24/01/16 20:55, wrote:
If you can take a picture I'm happy to try to help. The three most
common oil leaks on Riello burners are the air slide ram (if fitted),
the pump shaft (often accompanied by a failed pump end motor bearing)
and embrittled oil line flexy hoses especially those with external
metal braid. Oil flexy hoses should be replaced every few years.



Ok. I've got a hospital thingy to get through tomorrow morning, but will
try and get some pikkies so at leasts it should be possible to ID the
burner unit and work out what spares are available.

I think your comment about a broken flame sensor causing immediate
lockout has struck a chord.

It doesn't even seem to want/try to fire up. Pump and fan spin up, then
it goes 'click' and locks out. And wont reset5 for ages.


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

Hope your hospital visit was ok. I should perhaps have suggested disconnecting the suspect photocell and trying a reset. If the problem did lie there the sequence would run up and the burner would ignite but after a few seconds it would lock out as the flame would not register.

On 27/01/16 22:49, wrote:
Hope your hospital visit was ok. I should perhaps have suggested disconnecting the suspect photocell and trying a reset. If the problem did lie there the sequence would run up and the burner would ignite but after a few seconds it would lock out as the flame would not register.

Oddly enough the friend found a local plumber who came in and said
'bull****: photocell is simply all tarred up, and it all sprang to life.


--
Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time the quo has lost
its status.

Laurence Peter

I'm glad your friend has warmth again. It's often tricky to find a reliable guy to look after oil fired domestic heating plant so I trust the guys number is writ large on the boiler.

If you want a pdf of the Myson Velaire maintenance manual you can download it for nothing from my website: www.peterscott.website Look under Downloads

Peter Scott

replying to The Natural Philosopher, Mains2Drains wrote:
...... And the reason for the photocell being all tarred up is: A result of
the combustion process failing. All fuels require a Stoicimetric mixture of
Fuel to Air ( circa 1 part fuel to 11 parts air). Failure to correctly set
this results in "incomplete combustion" and a build up of soot/tar deposits.
Setting the correct oil pump pressure (measured oil delivery) and air damper
position (measured air delivery) is paramount for a complete combustion and
clean burn.

Has anyone got the Myson "additional burner data sheet" that's mentioned in
the owners/service manual ?
knowing the manufacturers expected pump pressures would be great to know as
the "industry norms" are ok but not always exact enough for a good clean burn.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...h-1102783-.htm