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Default PC and monitor standby power?

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC, and a decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.

Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the little button on the lower front of the monitor.

What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be drawing during the night?

--
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On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC, and a
decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.

Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the
little button on the lower front of the monitor.

What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be
drawing during the night?


If he's closing Windows, then he's switching the PC off. There'll be a
small draw, but it really will be absolutely minimal.

Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk is
reputedly 0.5w on standby.

Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh, about
2.5 days per penny.
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Default PC and monitor standby power?

On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 14:47:39 UTC, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC, and a
decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.

Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the
little button on the lower front of the monitor.

What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be
drawing during the night?


If he's closing Windows, then he's switching the PC off. There'll be a
small draw, but it really will be absolutely minimal.

(1) Initial false assumption.
(2) It is that draw which I wish to know; I do not want its significance evaluated.

Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk is
reputedly 0.5w on standby.


Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh, about
2.5 days per penny.

(3) I asked "during the night" - but you have quoted the daytime rate.


Can anyone give actual answers (and no more) to the actual question?

--
SL
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On 09/12/15 09:51, wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 14:47:39 UTC, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC, and a
decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.

Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the
little button on the lower front of the monitor.

What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be
drawing during the night?


If he's closing Windows, then he's switching the PC off. There'll be a
small draw, but it really will be absolutely minimal.

(1) Initial false assumption.
(2) It is that draw which I wish to know; I do not want its significance evaluated.

Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk is
reputedly 0.5w on standby.


Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh, about
2.5 days per penny.

(3) I asked "during the night" - but you have quoted the daytime rate.


Can anyone give actual answers (and no more) to the actual question?

No, since there is insufficient information.

1/. "these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the
little button on the lower front of the monitor" does not actually
tell anyone what the actual state of the PC is.

2/. What a PC draws in ANY state it's in (apart from completely
disconnected from the mains) is absolutely a function of the actual PC.
Which you didn't specify.




--
the biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.
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Default PC and monitor standby power?

On 09/12/2015 09:51, wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 14:47:39 UTC, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC, and a
decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.

Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the
little button on the lower front of the monitor.

What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be
drawing during the night?


If he's closing Windows, then he's switching the PC off. There'll be a
small draw, but it really will be absolutely minimal.

(1) Initial false assumption.
(2) It is that draw which I wish to know; I do not want its significance evaluated.

Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk is
reputedly 0.5w on standby.


Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh, about
2.5 days per penny.

(3) I asked "during the night" - but you have quoted the daytime rate.

Can anyone give actual answers (and no more) to the actual question?


No. The question as posed is impossible to answer since it depends
critically on the exact model of PSU in the generic PC and potentially
on certain BIOS settings (ie keeping the memory active in suspend mode).

Likewise the model number and version could be used to find the LCD
display manufacturers claimed power consumption in standby.

The only way to find out for sure is to *measure* it on the actual kit.

--
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Martin Brown


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On 09/12/15 10:13, Martin Brown wrote:
On 09/12/2015 09:51, wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 14:47:39 UTC, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC,
and a
decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.

Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing
the
little button on the lower front of the monitor.

What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be
drawing during the night?

If he's closing Windows, then he's switching the PC off. There'll be a
small draw, but it really will be absolutely minimal.

(1) Initial false assumption.
(2) It is that draw which I wish to know; I do not want its
significance evaluated.

Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk is
reputedly 0.5w on standby.


Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh, about
2.5 days per penny.

(3) I asked "during the night" - but you have quoted the daytime rate.

Can anyone give actual answers (and no more) to the actual question?


No. The question as posed is impossible to answer since it depends
critically on the exact model of PSU in the generic PC and potentially
on certain BIOS settings (ie keeping the memory active in suspend mode).

Likewise the model number and version could be used to find the LCD
display manufacturers claimed power consumption in standby.

The only way to find out for sure is to *measure* it on the actual kit.

And in fact measuring very very low duty cycle current into very low
power switched mode PSUs, is in itself a highly suspect enterprise.

(The modern tendency is to have two switched mode PSUS - one that runs
the 'standby' power unit, and which switches on the main switched mode
PSU when the start button is pressed).


--
the biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.
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Default PC and monitor standby power?

In article ,
wrote:
Can anyone give actual answers (and no more) to the actual question?


Not with the information given. If you wish to know exactly, you'd need to
give make and model numbers. And hope someone has details. Or Google for
their instruction books, which may just give standby power consumption.

--
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In message ,
writes
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 14:47:39 UTC, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC, and a
decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.

Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the
little button on the lower front of the monitor.

What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be
drawing during the night?


If he's closing Windows, then he's switching the PC off. There'll be a
small draw, but it really will be absolutely minimal.

(1) Initial false assumption.
(2) It is that draw which I wish to know; I do not want its
significance evaluated.

Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk is
reputedly 0.5w on standby.


Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh, about
2.5 days per penny.

(3) I asked "during the night" - but you have quoted the daytime rate.


Can anyone give actual answers (and no more) to the actual question?


Actual, as in what does that actual setup draw, no, for the reasons
already given.

But for the PC and monitor given, it's likely to be 'not a lot' to worry
about.

FWIW,

For this PC here, the important guts of which (PSU and mobo) - are
probably about 5 yo. The monitor is a no-name LCD about 8 yo.

On standby (as in with the PC asleep', rather than turned off) it the
combo draws 5W. With windows shutdown it draws 1W

The speakers however draw about 10W when left turned on, so the whole
kit and caboodle is on one of those standby switch things that powers
off the rest of the kit when the PC goes into standby/off
--
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Default PC and monitor standby power?

On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 17:24:42 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:


Worst PC I have seen recently about 4W best 0.1W. If there is any doubt
then one of the socket strips that slaves all peripherals to the PC is
the way to go. That is what I do for my errant amplifier.


I've emasured two CRT iMac from about 2001 they were between 2-4 watts on shutdown, this is I believe due to the IEC filtering socket not being as efficient as it should/could be. Sleeping was 30 watts !
My G4 tower was 5 watts on shutdown.



It is worth measuring standby power of things left in standby a lot.
Some older flat screen TVs are particularly bad by default.

Most modern stuff is much better with 0.2W being typical.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown




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On 09/12/2015 11:22, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 17:24:42 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:


Worst PC I have seen recently about 4W best 0.1W. If there is any doubt
then one of the socket strips that slaves all peripherals to the PC is
the way to go. That is what I do for my errant amplifier.


I've emasured two CRT iMac from about 2001 they were between 2-4 watts on shutdown,
this is I believe due to the IEC filtering socket not being as

efficient as it
should/could be. Sleeping was 30 watts !


I doubt that the mains filter could ever be that inefficient.

My G4 tower was 5 watts on shutdown.


~5W is typical of maintaining the ram contents for a quick start.

Although some cheap and nasty PSUs are that bad at maintaining power for
the on/off switch logic I wouldn't expect to see one in an Apple.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
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On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 11:36:05 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 09/12/2015 11:22, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 17:24:42 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:


Worst PC I have seen recently about 4W best 0.1W. If there is any doubt
then one of the socket strips that slaves all peripherals to the PC is
the way to go. That is what I do for my errant amplifier.


I've emasured two CRT iMac from about 2001 they were between 2-4 watts on shutdown,
this is I believe due to the IEC filtering socket not being as

efficient as it
should/could be. Sleeping was 30 watts !


I doubt that the mains filter could ever be that inefficient.


There's more than just the main filter in a sleeping imac.
The screen while blank is active and them memeory and a lot of the other components werre active when in sleep mode.


My G4 tower was 5 watts on shutdown.


~5W is typical of maintaining the ram contents for a quick start.

Although some cheap and nasty PSUs are that bad at maintaining power for
the on/off switch logic I wouldn't expect to see one in an Apple.


it is what it was/is.




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Default PC and monitor standby power?

On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC, and a
decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.

Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the
little button on the lower front of the monitor.

What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be
drawing during the night?


I've seen PCs vary from a low of half a watt to a high of 5 or 6 watts
(any higher is likely to be a failing Bestec PSU or a shedload of USB
gadgets drawing power via the main board's usb sockets when programmed to
stay live in the cmos setup).

Computer monitors typically draw from half to 2 watts in standby (when
not explicitly switched off) and may draw from zero to half a watt when
switched off by its own power button.

As you can see, there's quite a range of uncertainty in the answer to
your question. The user guides may offer some data regarding their power
consumption (typically true for monitors - far less so, ime, with desktop
PCs) or else you beg, borrow or steal a £9.99 plug in 'energy
monitor' (aka, 'digital watt meter') and take your own measurements.
Maplin's N67FU will give reasonably accurate readings for just this sort
of test.

HTH & HAND.

--
Johnny B Good
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On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 12:58:35 UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote:
SL wrote:

On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 14:47:39 UTC, Adrian wrote:


Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk is
reputedly 0.5w on standby.


Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh, about
2.5 days per penny.

(3) I asked "during the night" - but you have quoted the daytime rate.


A typical rate, as additional information. Did you tell us
anything about your neighbour's supply tariff?


I did not; I was asking about the power in watts, not the cost. To get the
true cost, one must remember that the dissipation in question is a humble
contribution to the room heating

To answer other respondents :

Amitech MM Lite PC 1851, Philips monitor type unknown. Windows 7 is in the "Turn off" state at night.

Speakers - good thought. I don't recall exactly where the "manual" for that
pair is, but I do know where that for a replacement pair should be - no such
information supplied on sealed retail purchase - Creative A60 2.0.

Some respondents wrote about buying a digital wattmeter - surely not the type
of advice for news:uk-d-i-y, since one can make a digital wattmeter from the
sort of electronic components that became available a generation or more ago.

I used "likely" to indicate that I just wanted approximate probable figures.

--
SL


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On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:31:43 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 12:58:35 UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote:
SL wrote:

On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 14:47:39 UTC, Adrian wrote:


Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk
is reputedly 0.5w on standby.

Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh,
about 2.5 days per penny.
(3) I asked "during the night" - but you have quoted the daytime rate.


A typical rate, as additional information. Did you tell us anything
about your neighbour's supply tariff?


I did not; I was asking about the power in watts, not the cost. To get
the true cost, one must remember that the dissipation in question is a
humble contribution to the room heating

To answer other respondents :

Amitech MM Lite PC 1851, Philips monitor type unknown. Windows 7 is in
the "Turn off" state at night.

Speakers - good thought. I don't recall exactly where the "manual" for
that pair is, but I do know where that for a replacement pair should be
- no such information supplied on sealed retail purchase - Creative A60
2.0.


It's common practice amongst the manufacturers of active PC speakers to
fit the on/off switch on the low voltage secondary side of the mains
transformer. This leaves the transformer losses (hysteresis in the core
and some I squared R loss in the primary due to magnetisation current)
still drawing power off the mains supply which can be dismayingly high (4
watts or so in my case with a decently sized "Target" TRG-S320 stereo PC
speaker pair).

I've been replacing the 'innards' of my desktop PC's ATX PSU, every 4 or
5 years as they wear out, with 'innards' cannibalised from new ATX PSU's
simply to retain the mains isolator switch and the 'Aux' monitor power
socket which it also controls just so I can shut off these parasitic
loads after the OS shuts the PC down (a total of 8 to 10 watts worth).

Refurbishing, rather than replacing, the PSU also saves me having to 're-
customise' the ventilation grille-work which most ATX PSUs typically
compromise the efficacy of the PSU cooling fan as the sole means of
adequate cooling for a well ventilated Desktop tower case housing a
sub-150W peak demand PC system (I have a very quiet desktop PC that keeps
its cool - in more ways than one :-).


Some respondents wrote about buying a digital wattmeter - surely not the
type of advice for news:uk-d-i-y, since one can make a digital wattmeter
from the sort of electronic components that became available a
generation or more ago.


Human or technology 'generations'? :-)

Most DIYers think it's sufficient to buy their tools 'ready made' rather
than design and build their own DMMs or digital watt meters, especially
when it's likely to cost more just to buy the parts than to buy a
suitable 'off-the-shelf' ready made test meter (£9.99 in the case of the
N67FU I recommended as suitable to making such measurements). You're
talking about "Extreme DIY", a branch of the hobby that most contributors
here would regard as a completely OTT approach to the gentle art of
DIY. :-)


I used "likely" to indicate that I just wanted approximate probable
figures.


Well, apart from my overlooking a potentially significant PC Speaker
load, I gave you exactly the sort of answer you were looking for. I'm
feeling a little 'affronted' that you failed to thank me by name. :-(

:-)

--
Johnny B Good
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On Thursday, 17 December 2015 16:23:51 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:31:43 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:



Some respondents wrote about buying a digital wattmeter - surely not the
type of advice for news:uk-d-i-y, since one can make a digital wattmeter
from the sort of electronic components that became available a
generation or more ago.


Human or technology 'generations'? :-)


Human.

Most DIYers think it's sufficient to buy their tools 'ready made' rather
than design and build their own DMMs or digital watt meters, especially
when it's likely to cost more just to buy the parts than to buy a
suitable 'off-the-shelf' ready made test meter (£9.99 in the case of the
N67FU I recommended as suitable to making such measurements). You're
talking about "Extreme DIY", a branch of the hobby that most contributors
here would regard as a completely OTT approach to the gentle art of
DIY. :-)


Agreed. The components in question must have cost well over £9.99 in the money of those days, let alone the auxiliary equipment. But the accuracy greatly exceeded that of the N67FU. But maybe I can get an N67FU using someone else's shoe-leather.

--
SL
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On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:43:43 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

On Thursday, 17 December 2015 16:23:51 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:31:43 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:



Some respondents wrote about buying a digital wattmeter - surely not
the type of advice for news:uk-d-i-y, since one can make a digital
wattmeter from the sort of electronic components that became
available a generation or more ago.


Human or technology 'generations'? :-)


Human.

Most DIYers think it's sufficient to buy their tools 'ready made'
rather
than design and build their own DMMs or digital watt meters, especially
when it's likely to cost more just to buy the parts than to buy a
suitable 'off-the-shelf' ready made test meter (£9.99 in the case of
the N67FU I recommended as suitable to making such measurements).
You're talking about "Extreme DIY", a branch of the hobby that most
contributors here would regard as a completely OTT approach to the
gentle art of DIY. :-)


Agreed. The components in question must have cost well over £9.99 in


And, then some! Inflation alone would make it the equivilent of £100 in
the early to mid 80s but it would likely have cost five to ten times more
again simply because the electronic components were so relatively costly
at that early stage of the game.

the money of those days, let alone the auxiliary equipment. But the
accuracy greatly exceeded that of the N67FU. But maybe I can get an
N67FU using someone else's shoe-leather.


Such extreme accuracy (better than a tenth of a watt) would simply be
wasted in such an application as this. I can be confident that, unlike
the 'affordable' sub ten quid 'energy monitors being sold by Aldi (the
infamous DEM1379) and a similar unit from "Machine Mart" a decade or so
ago which could show anything from zero to 20 watts on a 10 watt router
or cable modem load, the N67FU *does* correctly read[1] to within a tenth
of a watt, even on sub 2 watt smpsu wallwart loads since the readings
correlate to within a tenth of a watt as best as I can interpolate the 2
watt graduations on the mirror backed 100W scale of my trusty Metrawatt
analogue watt meter[2] when using a jeweler's loupe. Trust me on this, I
have the means to cross check without reliance on potentially suspect
electronic reference measuring kit. :-)

[1] After my disappointing experiences with cheap 'digital watt
meters' (which tarred all such 'affordable' digital energy monitors for
the next decade afaiwc), I was flabbergasted at the unexpected accuracy
of this energy monitor (aka digital watt meter) as I was, likewise with
its slightly more expensive cousin, the 2000MU-UK (an anglicised "Kill-A-
Watt" for those of the American persuasion). For once, it made a pleasant
change that the 2 or 3 quid each that I spent in my local flea market
*wasn't* a total and utter waste.

[2] I bought this rather nice watt meter at a radio ham rally nearly
thirty years ago. The 35 quid asking price almost put me off (I couldn't
haggle the trader down) but I knew I was looking at something almost
unique in the world of electrical measuring instruments so I 'squandered'
my 35 quid without too much 'soul searching'.

I knew such watt meters were pretty scarce but only discovered, after
googling for more info on this meter just a few years back, that they are
in fact, as rare as "rocking horse ****"(tm).

Gone at last, were the days when I could only guess at the power
consumption of various electrical and electronic mains powered
'appliances'. However at that time, I didn't realise just how useful a
diagnostic aid it was going to become in the art of diagnosing and
repairing desktop and laptop computers when I eventually quit my 'day
job' to build, sell and repair PCs 'full time'.

--
Johnny B Good
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