What are the implications of not having a certificate? Out house was bult
with wooden double glazed windows (No certificate then) Over the last
couple of years I have had 5 windows replaced with UPVC framed double
glazing with thermal glass. However, it was several cash in hand jobs and
no certificates were offered or sought.
In the unlikely event of selling the house, what might this mean? Could I
say that I have reduced to price to allow the new buyer to have FENSA
certified frames fitted? Could I get some document from the (reputable)
frame makers? What are the issues?

DerbyBorn wrote:

Could I get some document from the (reputable)
frame makers?

No, they can't certify the fitting, only give a declaration that the
frames/glazing meet the standards, so not the same thing.

What are the issues?

Someone might ask to see them, and you'll have to say you have no
certificates because some windows didn't need one, and others haven't
got one.

Anyone who can look at the windows, see they aren't falling out, do have
the kite-mark to show they're toughened if appropriate would be a fool
to walk away from buying a house due to a worthless bit of paper.

You *could* get a retrospective building regulations inspection done,
they may want to see evidence that cavity-closers, lintels etc were
installed where needed, or you could get "lack of building regulations
indemnity" policy for a few quid.

On 01/10/2015 15:21, DerbyBorn wrote:
What are the implications of not having a certificate? Out house was bult
with wooden double glazed windows (No certificate then) Over the last
couple of years I have had 5 windows replaced with UPVC framed double
glazing with thermal glass. However, it was several cash in hand jobs and
no certificates were offered or sought.
In the unlikely event of selling the house, what might this mean? Could I
say that I have reduced to price to allow the new buyer to have FENSA
certified frames fitted? Could I get some document from the (reputable)
frame makers? What are the issues?

Wait until it becomes an issue - if it does - when you come to sell the
house. Then say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business. Unless there are any
obvious problems with the windows, the lack of certificate is unlikely
to affect the sale. If it *does* there are - as others have said -
various indemnity insurance policies which you can buy for not very much.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

I think this is one of those non-issues since before 2006 a FENSA certificate was not required and it does not stop people buying houses with DG installed before then. I should imagine if any body really likes your house it will be a small issue and not likely to put them off unless they are really pedantic and then they know what they can do.

Richard

On 01/10/15 16:22, Roger Mills wrote:
On 01/10/2015 15:21, DerbyBorn wrote:
What are the implications of not having a certificate? Out house was bult
with wooden double glazed windows (No certificate then) Over the last
couple of years I have had 5 windows replaced with UPVC framed double
glazing with thermal glass. However, it was several cash in hand jobs and
no certificates were offered or sought.
In the unlikely event of selling the house, what might this mean? Could I
say that I have reduced to price to allow the new buyer to have FENSA
certified frames fitted? Could I get some document from the (reputable)
frame makers? What are the issues?

Wait until it becomes an issue - if it does - when you come to sell the
house. Then say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business. Unless there are any
obvious problems with the windows, the lack of certificate is unlikely
to affect the sale. If it *does* there are - as others have said -
various indemnity insurance policies which you can buy for not very much.

That does not quite work as everyone (solicitors) knows that you can get
duplicates from FENSA (I've had to do this).

Better to just say there are none and leave it at that.

On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

On 01/10/2015 17:04, Richard Conway wrote:
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

When were the windows fitted?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote in news:d756icFn3b4U1
@mid.individual.net:

On 01/10/2015 17:04, Richard Conway wrote:
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

When were the windows fitted?

Last year and next week.

"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.222...
Roger Mills wrote in news:d756icFn3b4U1
@mid.individual.net:

On 01/10/2015 17:04, Richard Conway wrote:
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

When were the windows fitted?

Last year and next week.

"next week". That is pure class. dennis will either have a heart attack or a
wank.




--
Adam

In message , Richard Conway
writes
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

Sorry but we cannot match that search data! Mind it was 20 years ago.

--
Tim Lamb

On 01/10/2015 16:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/10/15 16:22, Roger Mills wrote:
On 01/10/2015 15:21, DerbyBorn wrote:
What are the implications of not having a certificate? Out house was
bult
with wooden double glazed windows (No certificate then) Over the last
couple of years I have had 5 windows replaced with UPVC framed double
glazing with thermal glass. However, it was several cash in hand jobs
and
no certificates were offered or sought.
In the unlikely event of selling the house, what might this mean?
Could I
say that I have reduced to price to allow the new buyer to have FENSA
certified frames fitted? Could I get some document from the (reputable)
frame makers? What are the issues?

Wait until it becomes an issue - if it does - when you come to sell the
house. Then say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business. Unless there are any
obvious problems with the windows, the lack of certificate is unlikely
to affect the sale. If it *does* there are - as others have said -
various indemnity insurance policies which you can buy for not very much.

That does not quite work as everyone (solicitors) knows that you can get
duplicates from FENSA (I've had to do this).

Better to just say there are none and leave it at that.

When selling, honesty tends to pay and not bite you later!

Tim Lamb wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

Sorry but we cannot match that search data! Mind it was 20 years ago.

The oldest certificate I can find down my road is 2002.

For a given postcode you only need to search for house numbers 0 to 9,
to match them all (unless you have house names of course, in which case
I presume 26 searches from A to Z would do it).

On 01/10/2015 17:04, Richard Conway wrote:
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

My house appears to have the same installation certificated twice :/

"Chris" wrote in message
...
On 01/10/2015 17:04, Richard Conway wrote:
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

My house appears to have the same installation certificated twice :/


I am not going to say it.

--
Adam

In article , Chris
writes
On 01/10/2015 17:04, Richard Conway wrote:
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

My house appears to have the same installation certificated twice :/
Can I have one of them?
--
bert

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 21:06:55 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I
still
bought it

Sorry but we cannot match that search data!

Stupid site can't cope with a postecode entered as "ab12cd", it
certainly insists on the space, may even be fussy about case.

I can't see how they justify the £12 charge for a copy either, apart
from lining their pockets.

Mind it was 20 years ago.

When did FENSA come into existance again?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 01/10/15 21:21, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

Sorry but we cannot match that search data! Mind it was 20 years ago.

The oldest certificate I can find down my road is 2002.

That's when Part L came into force so it seems likely you will not find
anything earlier.

On 02/10/15 00:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 21:06:55 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I
still
bought it

Sorry but we cannot match that search data!

Stupid site can't cope with a postecode entered as "ab12cd", it
certainly insists on the space, may even be fussy about case.

I can't see how they justify the £12 charge for a copy either, apart
from lining their pockets.

Mind it was 20 years ago.

When did FENSA come into existance again?


I assume 2002?

On 01/10/2015 21:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Richard Conway
writes
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I
still bought it

Sorry but we cannot match that search data! Mind it was 20 years ago.


It says the same for my house. I had some new windows fitted in 2002 and
in 2009 - but they were both part of larger buildings projects which got
Building Regs sign-off - not just window replacements. Should I have had
FENSA certificates anyway, or is the BR sign-off sufficient?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 02/10/15 12:05, Roger Mills wrote:
On 01/10/2015 21:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Richard Conway
writes
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I
still bought it

Sorry but we cannot match that search data! Mind it was 20 years ago.


It says the same for my house. I had some new windows fitted in 2002 and
in 2009 - but they were both part of larger buildings projects which got
Building Regs sign-off - not just window replacements. Should I have had
FENSA certificates anyway, or is the BR sign-off sufficient?

FENSA is just self certification for BR - so a BR sign off replaces
completely.

Same as Part P etc.

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:32:32 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

DerbyBorn wrote:

Could I get some document from the (reputable)
frame makers?

No, they can't certify the fitting, only give a declaration that the
frames/glazing meet the standards, so not the same thing.

What are the issues?


I'm exactly in this situation, buying a house where "the builder"
doesn't believe in certification!

Someone might ask to see them, and you'll have to say you have no
certificates because some windows didn't need one, and others haven't
got one.

Anyone who can look at the windows, see they aren't falling out, do have
the kite-mark to show they're toughened if appropriate would be a fool
to walk away from buying a house due to a worthless bit of paper.


New glass door and no markings at all!

You *could* get a retrospective building regulations inspection done,

Which carries the risk of not being passed

they may want to see evidence that cavity-closers, lintels etc were
installed where needed, or you could get "lack of building regulations
indemnity" policy for a few quid.

And so many exclusion clauses that in practice it become worthless eg
the one I saw precludes any work being carried out on the premises
that will cause the invitation of a building inspector - so no new
bathroom then.

My solicitor of a relatively small local firm points out that in the
past 5 or so years they've placed around £300k in indemnity insurance
of one sort or another and neither the firm nor any of the colleagues
in any other firm have ever encountered a claim.

Still - my vendor has offered to pay for such indemnity and as it goes
with the property it saves me a bit of a headache further down the
line but otherwise I am advised to consider it meaningless.

--
AnthonyL

On 01/10/2015 15:21, DerbyBorn wrote:

What are the implications of not having a certificate? Out house was bult

none.

In the unlikely event of selling the house, what might this mean? Could I

nothing.

say that I have reduced to price to allow the new buyer to have FENSA
certified frames fitted?

You would be daft, its a sellers market at the moment.

Could I get some document from the (reputable)
frame makers? What are the issues?

You could print your own I suppose - they would be worth just as much ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/10/2015 12:45, AnthonyL wrote:

New glass door and no markings at all!

You *could* get a retrospective building regulations inspection done,

Which carries the risk of not being passed

they may want to see evidence that cavity-closers, lintels etc were
installed where needed, or you could get "lack of building regulations
indemnity" policy for a few quid.

And so many exclusion clauses that in practice it become worthless eg
the one I saw precludes any work being carried out on the premises
that will cause the invitation of a building inspector - so no new
bathroom then.

Who cares anyway, there is an ahem window of opportunity for
enforcement of building regs, and once past, there is nothing they can
do unless imminent damage to life or someone else's property are likely.

My solicitor of a relatively small local firm points out that in the
past 5 or so years they've placed around £300k in indemnity insurance
of one sort or another and neither the firm nor any of the colleagues
in any other firm have ever encountered a claim.

Still - my vendor has offered to pay for such indemnity and as it goes
with the property it saves me a bit of a headache further down the
line but otherwise I am advised to consider it meaningless.

I am sure its a nice little earner for both the insurers and the
solicitors in the form of commissions.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 01/10/2015 22:27, bert wrote:
In article , Chris
writes
On 01/10/2015 17:04, Richard Conway wrote:
On 01/10/2015 16:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

say that you've lost the certificate and that the company
which did the work is no longer in business.

That won't wash, FENSA keeps a copy of certificates, searchable by
postcode and house number

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I still
bought it

My house appears to have the same installation certificated twice :/
Can I have one of them?

Someone order one, doctor in photoshop and slap it online, then any
place can have one ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 19:44:17 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Can I have one of them?

Someone order one, doctor in photoshop and slap it online, then any
place can have one ;-)

B-) Why bother with the £12 and ordering. I have one (some where) I
don't remember any sort of "security" markings, just plain black text
on white card of about 150 gsm.

The "security" is in someone checking with FENSA that the certificate
number, address, window count, etc on the certificate agrees with
that on record with FENSA.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 03/10/15 03:41, Huge wrote:
On 2015-10-01, DerbyBorn wrote:
What are the implications of not having a certificate?

None.

The whole thing is a stupid pointless waste of time.


Almost.

The actual implication is an argument with a house buyer's solicitor
while you tell them to take it or leave it.

It featured when I handled a probate case and FENSA were able to produce
the goods.

But in the grand scheme of things it was pointless as the buyer ripped
them all out as part of a redevelopment anyway!

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
On 02/10/15 00:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 21:06:55 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp

That's interesting - my house doesn't have any certificates and I
still
bought it

Sorry but we cannot match that search data!

Stupid site can't cope with a postecode entered as "ab12cd", it
certainly insists on the space, may even be fussy about case.

I can't see how they justify the £12 charge for a copy either, apart
from lining their pockets.

Mind it was 20 years ago.

When did FENSA come into existance again?

I assume 2002?

Yes, April 2002. (I got mine done in Feb 2002, to avoid it all.)
There may have been a 3 month grace period for orders already placed,
but it has never been taken very seriously - lack of certificates
doesn't seem to mean anything. Solicitors always ask, but 'no' as an
answer seemed perfectly OK for several friends who have been in this
position.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I got mine done in Feb 2002, to avoid it all.

Have you got a certificate to prove that?

On Friday, 2 October 2015 12:46:01 UTC+1, AnthonyL wrote:

My solicitor of a relatively small local firm points out that in the
past 5 or so years they've placed around �300k in indemnity insurance
of one sort or another and neither the firm nor any of the colleagues
in any other firm have ever encountered a claim.

That's because there never has been a claim made - no local authority has *ever* served an injunction (the action required after 12 months and hence why insurance cover requires the work to be this old). The legislation sits completely untested.

Mathew

In article ,
Andy Burns writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I got mine done in Feb 2002, to avoid it all.

Have you got a certificate to prove that?

Don't need one.

(Actually, I have the guarantee which would serve, but it's not
necessary. Also, the glazing spacers do all say Feb/02 on them,
except one which shattered a couple of years ago.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]