Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#161
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 24/08/15 18:04, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:55:57 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote: Compression of the mixture? No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air Indeed. Which is precisely why the timing of the injection is so important on a diesel. well of cpurse you are talimng direct njection. Earlier diesels injected fuel into the inlet manifold and it was that fuel air mixture that got compressed and went bang... Oh and glow plugs play no part ion a diesel that is running. C0old start only. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#162
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 24/08/15 18:31, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Johnny B Good wrote: On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:19:35 +0100, Davey wrote: On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:00:59 +0100 The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote: In article , The Natural Philosopher writes On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote: ====snip==== Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing. Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised? No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel. Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you think it runs at all? Compression of the mixture? No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air, burning continuously in a manner analogous to the flame you get by igniting the spray from a can of aerosol hair lacquer spray (or the way fuel is burned in a jet engine's combustion chamber). I don't know the exact details for typical high speed diesel engine injection timings but, afaicr, the injection can start in advance of TDC at higher revs and continues spraying for something like 50% of the power stroke, give or take 25% or so. Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors? Yes and no. Manifold injection has nearly always been the case, but cylinder injection is fairly new. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#163
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 24/08/15 18:43, NY wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message .. . No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel. Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you think it runs at all? Compression of the mixture? No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air, burning continuously in a manner analogous to the flame you get by igniting the spray from a can of aerosol hair lacquer spray (or the way fuel is burned in a jet engine's combustion chamber). I don't know the exact details for typical high speed diesel engine injection timings but, afaicr, the injection can start in advance of TDC at higher revs and continues spraying for something like 50% of the power stroke, give or take 25% or so. Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors? To the best of my knowledge, diesel engines have "always" (*) used injectors to define the timing of the ignition. Nope. Tractors often use(d) manifold injection. So to put the issue of timing to bed: - petrol engines draw fuel-and-air mixture into the cylinder on the induction stroke and ignite it by a spark which is timed to occur just before top dead centre; I believe some engines have a second spark during the power stroke to ignite any unburnt fuel; the fuel-and-air mixture used to be mixed in a carburettor and the fuel is now injected into the inlet manifold; they always have a precisely controlled proportion of fuel to air. - diesel engines draw air into the cylinder, compress it to about 30:1 compression ratio (unlike about 7:1 for petrol) which causes it to heat up to a temperature at which fuel will ignite on contact; shortly before TDC the fuel is injected and this injection may continue for part of the power stroke; they always have an excess of air relative to fuel. So the spark of the petrol engine and the injection of the fuel of the diesel engine both determine the "timing" of the engine in the same way. Except that fuel injection will be a short while before actual ignition For both types of engine, the air may be sucked in at atmospheric pressure (normally-aspirated) or may be blown in at more than atmospheric pressure by a turbo- or supercharger. Turbo/super chargers fit more than the rated capacity of air into the cylinder, so allowing more fuel to be injected and thus giving an increase in the effective capacity of the engine. (*) Ignoring possible variations in early development engines. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#164
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 21:07:45 +0100, newshound wrote:
They all contain ethanol which is hygroscopic. Got a link for that for UK fuels? They are *permitted* to contain 5%, possibly to be increased soon. Doesn't mean they do. They do. The RTFO is a gov't target for a minimum of (currently) 4.75% of road fuel by volume to be bioethanol, rather than extract of dinosaur. https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tachment_data/ file/371589/rtfo-2014-15-year-7-report-1.pdf |
#165
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/15 18:31, Tim Streater wrote: In article , Johnny B Good wrote: On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:19:35 +0100, Davey wrote: On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:00:59 +0100 The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote: In article , The Natural Philosopher writes On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote: ====snip==== Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing. Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised? No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel. Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you think it runs at all? Compression of the mixture? No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air, burning continuously in a manner analogous to the flame you get by igniting the spray from a can of aerosol hair lacquer spray (or the way fuel is burned in a jet engine's combustion chamber). I don't know the exact details for typical high speed diesel engine injection timings but, afaicr, the injection can start in advance of TDC at higher revs and continues spraying for something like 50% of the power stroke, give or take 25% or so. Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors? Yes and no. Manifold injection has nearly always been the case, but cylinder injection is fairly new. Wrong. Manifold injection, if it ever existed for diesels, has almost never been the case. Indirect injection systems into a pre-combustion chamber (one per cylinder) was the the common method up until about 10-15 years ago (in cars) as it was easier to make this design quieter and smoother. Direct cylinder inject has overtaken it though with the development of higher pressure injection systems and better control of the injection system. Direct injection systems though have been around for donkey's years in commercial vehicles where the noise and harshness was less of an issue, but economy more important. Tim |
#166
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/2015 07:40, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 21:07:45 +0100, newshound wrote: They all contain ethanol which is hygroscopic. Got a link for that for UK fuels? They are *permitted* to contain 5%, possibly to be increased soon. Doesn't mean they do. They do. The RTFO is a gov't target for a minimum of (currently) 4.75% of road fuel by volume to be bioethanol, rather than extract of dinosaur. https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tachment_data/ file/371589/rtfo-2014-15-year-7-report-1.pdf That just says there is some, not that all petrol contains ethanol. Things change quickly and I may well be out-of-date now, but at one time ethanol added more to the price than FAME, so big suppliers could meet the obligation by dosing diesel rather than petrol. Perhaps this has changed with Ukranian ethanol. |
#167
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote: Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors? Diesel doesn't atomise like petrol so a carb wouldn't work. -- *A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#168
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Earlier diesels injected fuel into the inlet manifold and it was that fuel air mixture that got compressed and went bang... And even earlier diesels had direct injection. Before WW2. -- *If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#169
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/15 11:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Streater wrote: Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors? Diesel doesn't atomise like petrol so a carb wouldn't work. well technically model aircraft diesel engines are diesels in that they run as carburated compression ignition engines. However they run on paraffin oil and ether mixtures, with the ether doing the main job of ignition. I don't think I've ever seen a diesel that ran on 'diesel' fuel with a carburettor but I *may* have seen a paraffin engine with a carb - think it was started with petrol and a glow plug..cant remember.. ....here ya go/. Original tractor design of engine with carburettor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrol-paraffin_engine Once its hot enough to vapourise the actual paraffin, then it works. Bit like a primus. Hmm they seem to use spark ignition. I am sure there are some full size tractors using carburation from back in the day..nope. Wiki says not. Always have been injected apart from model aircraft ones that use ether to get compression ignition going -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#170
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
... To the best of my knowledge, diesel engines have "always" (*) used injectors to define the timing of the ignition. Nope. Tractors often use(d) manifold injection. Irrespective of *where* the fuel is injected (manifold, pre-combustion chamber or direct into cylinder) it is the injection of a dose of fuel as a spray of tiny droplets which determines the moment of combustion - isn't it? Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? Didn't that make the timing of combustion extremely variable, without any control over the duration of combustion, whereas injection into the pre-heated air allows a long period of injection to give prolonged burn. |
#171
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote:
Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? There are engines like that. I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that. Used to drive a six inch prop. |
#172
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
"NY" wrote in message
... "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... To the best of my knowledge, diesel engines have "always" (*) used injectors to define the timing of the ignition. Nope. Tractors often use(d) manifold injection. Irrespective of *where* the fuel is injected (manifold, pre-combustion chamber or direct into cylinder) it is the injection of a dose of fuel as a spray of tiny droplets which determines the moment of combustion - isn't it? Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? Didn't that make the timing of combustion extremely variable, without any control over the duration of combustion, whereas injection into the pre-heated air allows a long period of injection to give prolonged burn. Also, you don't want the chance that detonation could occur *before* TDC otherwise the increased pressure of the combustion gases would try to turn the engine backwards - which at the very least if it only happened occasionally would result in dramatic loss of power as the engine has to "fight against" the rogue pre-TDC explosion. It only needs the engine to get a bit hotter than normal and ignition-by-compression could occur before TDC. Anyway, all modern diesels have one injector (at least) per cylinder and it is the moment of injection which determines the moment of combustion. I've never seen a diesel engine (turbo or non-turbo, direct or indirect injection) which didn't have one injector per cylinder. |
#173
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com... On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote: Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? There are engines like that. I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that. Used to drive a six inch prop. OK. Fair enough. But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? |
#174
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Manifold injection has nearly always been the case, but cylinder injection is fairly new. completely wrong unless you are thinking of the early hot bulb diesel engines from 1891 and even then the fuel was not injected into the manifold - |
#175
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
"Mark" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Manifold injection has nearly always been the case, but cylinder injection is fairly new. completely wrong unless you are thinking of the early hot bulb diesel engines from 1891 and even then the fuel was not injected into the manifold I can only assume that he's got it muddled with petrol injection. Not that he'll ever admit that... Tim |
#176
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/15 16:16, NY wrote:
Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? Didn't that make the timing of combustion extremely variable, without any control over the duration of combustion, whereas injection into the pre-heated air allows a long period of injection to give prolonged burn. yes,. yes and yes, which is why it aint used much these days - i've only seen it on tractors ******* to start - we ended up throwing a diesel soaked rag into the manifold and lighting it. Once started we closed up the manifold after removing rag Gloplug was ineffective -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#177
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/15 16:24, NY wrote:
I've never seen a diesel engine (turbo or non-turbo, direct or indirect injection) which didn't have one injector per cylinder. I have - ancient tractor thing. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#178
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message b.com... On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote: Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? There are engines like that. I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that. Used to drive a six inch prop. OK. Fair enough. But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? Not made in the last 25 years, no -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#179
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote: "dennis@home" wrote in message b.com... On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote: Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? There are engines like that. I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that. Used to drive a six inch prop. OK. Fair enough. But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? Not made in the last 25 years, no So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970, or 1960, or even 1950? Tim |
#180
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
Tim+ wrote:
The Natural wrote: On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote: wrote in message b.com... On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote: Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? There are engines like that. I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that. Used to drive a six inch prop. OK. Fair enough. But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? Not made in the last 25 years, no So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970, or 1960, or even 1950? Tim I've seen crankcase injection on small petrol engines, don't know if it was applied to larger two stroke diesels. |
#181
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
Capitol wrote:
Tim+ wrote: The Natural wrote: On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote: wrote in message b.com... On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote: Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? There are engines like that. I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that. Used to drive a six inch prop. OK. Fair enough. But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? Not made in the last 25 years, no So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970, or 1960, or even 1950? Tim I've seen crankcase injection on small petrol engines, don't know if it was applied to larger two stroke diesels. I can't see it ever being an attractive way of doing things. No control over "ignition" timing so probably only suitable for engines with very limited rev ranges. Tim |
#182
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Diesel doesn't atomise like petrol so a carb wouldn't work. well technically model aircraft diesel engines are diesels in that they run as carburated compression ignition engines. But don't run on diesel. Oh - their efficiency is horrendous. Scaled up, the equivalent of a car doing about 1 mpg. -- *You can't trust atoms - they make up everything. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#183
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
Every Diesel car/van/truck engine made from as for back as 1950 has used
either a swirl chamber or direct injection https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...w=1024&bih=701 the ignition, firing or start of burn call it what you like of a diesel is at the moment of injection of fuel into compressed heated air. excluding of course model plane/boat CI engines that use "glow fuel" which is not a heavy Diesel oil at all. |
#184
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:16:16 +0100, NY wrote:
Irrespective of *where* the fuel is injected (manifold, pre-combustion chamber or direct into cylinder) it is the injection of a dose of fuel as a spray of tiny droplets which determines the moment of combustion - isn't it? Injection into the manifold separates the injection timing from the combustion, promoting valve timing instead. |
#185
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 08:42:36 +0100, Tim+ wrote:
Direct injection systems though have been around for donkey's years in commercial vehicles where the noise and harshness was less of an issue, but economy more important. Ah, the Perkins Prima, as used in Maestros and Montegos... |
#186
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:36:56 +0100, newshound wrote:
They all contain ethanol which is hygroscopic. Got a link for that for UK fuels? They are *permitted* to contain 5%, possibly to be increased soon. Doesn't mean they do. They do. The RTFO is a gov't target for a minimum of (currently) 4.75% of road fuel by volume to be bioethanol, rather than extract of dinosaur. https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tachment_data/ file/371589/rtfo-2014-15-year-7-report-1.pdf That just says there is some, not that all petrol contains ethanol. It says that 5.01% in ANY fuel is illegal. It says that 4.75% across ALL fuel is the target. You do the maths. |
#187
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/15 17:10, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote: "dennis@home" wrote in message b.com... On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote: Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a high enough temperature? There are engines like that. I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that. Used to drive a six inch prop. OK. Fair enough. But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? Not made in the last 25 years, no So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970, or 1960, or even 1950? none. twas a tractor Tim -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#188
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/15 18:10, Mark wrote:
Every Diesel car/van/truck engine made from as for back as 1950 has used either a swirl chamber or direct injection https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...w=1024&bih=701 the ignition, firing or start of burn call it what you like of a diesel is at the moment of injection of fuel into compressed heated air. excluding of course model plane/boat CI engines that use "glow fuel" which is not a heavy Diesel oil at all. Glow engines are methanol engines that ignite via catalytic reaction with a platinum glow plug. They are NOT model diesel engines which are compression ignition 2-strokes running off paraffin and ether. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#189
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 17:10, Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote: But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? Not made in the last 25 years, no So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970, or 1960, or even 1950? none. twas a tractor So which part of " let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. " did you fail to understand? I don't believe the tractor was only 25 years old either. Tim |
#190
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 26/08/15 07:58, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 25/08/15 17:10, Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote: But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? Not made in the last 25 years, no So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970, or 1960, or even 1950? none. twas a tractor So which part of " let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. " did you fail to understand? The part that came after I had made that comment. I don't believe the tractor was only 25 years old either. Believe what you want. I cant stop acts of faith and dogma ;-) Tim -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#191
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/15 07:58, Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 25/08/15 17:10, Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote: But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into combustion-heated air? Not made in the last 25 years, no So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970, or 1960, or even 1950? none. twas a tractor So which part of " let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. " did you fail to understand? The part that came after I had made that comment. I don't believe the tractor was only 25 years old either. Believe what you want. I cant stop acts of faith and dogma ;-) Name a tractor with manifold injection then (either made as recently as 25 years ago or *ever*). Making stuff up doesn't count as evidence. You do realise that IDI (indirect injection) does NOT mean manifold injection do you? I'm seriously beginning to wonder... Tim |
#192
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 25/08/2015 23:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 18:10, Mark wrote: Every Diesel car/van/truck engine made from as for back as 1950 has used either a swirl chamber or direct injection https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...w=1024&bih=701 the ignition, firing or start of burn call it what you like of a diesel is at the moment of injection of fuel into compressed heated air. excluding of course model plane/boat CI engines that use "glow fuel" which is not a heavy Diesel oil at all. Glow engines are methanol engines that ignite via catalytic reaction with a platinum glow plug. They are NOT model diesel engines which are compression ignition 2-strokes running off paraffin and ether. Mine didn't have a glowplug at all. It was purely CI. There were other engines that had glowplugs and you attached a big battery to get the engine to start. Mine you just used a recoil starter until it went, usually on the first or second try if I had mixed the fuel correctly. I forget the exact mixture but it had castor oil in it so probably not the safest stuff to burn. |
#193
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
supermarket fuel
On 26/08/15 09:28, dennis@home wrote:
On 25/08/2015 23:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 25/08/15 18:10, Mark wrote: Every Diesel car/van/truck engine made from as for back as 1950 has used either a swirl chamber or direct injection https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...w=1024&bih=701 the ignition, firing or start of burn call it what you like of a diesel is at the moment of injection of fuel into compressed heated air. excluding of course model plane/boat CI engines that use "glow fuel" which is not a heavy Diesel oil at all. Glow engines are methanol engines that ignite via catalytic reaction with a platinum glow plug. They are NOT model diesel engines which are compression ignition 2-strokes running off paraffin and ether. Mine didn't have a glowplug at all. It was purely CI. It was a diesel, not a glo engine. There were other engines that had glowplugs and you attached a big battery to get the engine to start. Mine you just used a recoil starter until it went, usually on the first or second try if I had mixed the fuel correctly. Lucky you. I had one diesel that used to start about once a day if I was lucky. I forget the exact mixture but it had castor oil in it so probably not the safest stuff to burn. generally 33/33/33 castor, paraffin and ether with a few percent of amyl nitrate IIRC. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Supermarket Plastic bags | UK diy | |||
Novel supermarket lighting | UK diy | |||
[OT] Supermarket shitlists | UK diy | |||
OT Supermarket Trolleys | UK diy | |||
Fuel leak where line enters fuel tank | Home Repair |