OT - the evolving English language
 

On 18/05/15 23:18, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Malcolm Race
wrote:

On 18/05/2015 20:37, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/05/15 20:14, Jonno wrote:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4pJAgWIUAEZb7p.jpg

I'm going to start a campaign to put the "ph" back into sulphur.

and the u back into colour.

I would also like to form a society for the correct use of the
apostrophe - e.g. a list of variety of coffee in the local B&Bs
headed Coffee's

Oh, goody, are we having a spelling/grammar rant?

Bring back *Railway* Stations!

OT - the evolving English language
 

In message , DJC writes


Bring back *Railway* Stations!

+1!!!

However, if you can have coach/bus stations, I suppose there is some
justification for 'train station',
--
Ian

OT - the evolving English language
 

In message , Tim Streater
writes
In article , Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , DJC writes

Bring back *Railway* Stations!

+1!!!

However, if you can have coach/bus stations, I suppose there is some
justification for 'train station'.

That there may be "justification" is a matter of complete indifference
to me. I'm with DJC.

Well, so am I - hence my '+1'.

When I were a lad, no one would have dreamt of using 'train station'
(although you would occasionally see a some signs saying 'To The
'Trains'). It seems as if I woke up one morning, and found that everyone
was using it. I suppose it's an American import - but even so, 'railway
station' is not totally unknown over there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0UdkKH-0Es
(at 1:22).
--
Ian

OT - the evolving English language
 

On Tue, 19 May 2015 15:11:00 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:



When I were a lad, no one would have dreamt of using 'train station'
(although you would occasionally see a some signs saying 'To The
'Trains'). It seems as if I woke up one morning, and found that everyone
was using it. I suppose it's an American import - but even so, 'railway
station' is not totally unknown over there.

One American who used it in a well known song was Paul Simon of the
duo Simon and Garfunkel who wrote the Song" Homeward Bound" in which
it appears, allegedly he came up with it while waiting for a train on
Widnes Railway station during the period he worked in the UK during a
depressed moment. I suppose being in Widnes in the early 60's could
have that effect. Whatever they also used Railway Station in the Song
the "The Boxer" on the Bridge over Troubled Waters Album which was
written later when in the US.

We have probably gone past the point of no return for the use of Train
Station on this side of the pond. In one part of the British Isles
the Railway themselves now uses it.

http://www.designid.co.uk/index.php/...train-station/

G.Harman

OT - the evolving English language
 

In message ,
writes
On Tue, 19 May 2015 15:11:00 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:



When I were a lad, no one would have dreamt of using 'train station'
(although you would occasionally see a some signs saying 'To The
'Trains'). It seems as if I woke up one morning, and found that everyone
was using it. I suppose it's an American import - but even so, 'railway
station' is not totally unknown over there.

One American who used it in a well known song was Paul Simon of the
duo Simon and Garfunkel who wrote the Song" Homeward Bound" in which
it appears, allegedly he came up with it while waiting for a train on
Widnes Railway station during the period he worked in the UK during a
depressed moment. I suppose being in Widnes in the early 60's could
have that effect. Whatever they also used Railway Station in the Song
the "The Boxer" on the Bridge over Troubled Waters Album which was
written later when in the US.

Of course, in lyrics, 'railway station' usually scans better than 'train
station'. I can't immediately recall any song or poem that uses the
latter.

We have probably gone past the point of no return for the use of Train
Station on this side of the pond. In one part of the British Isles
the Railway themselves now uses it.

http://www.designid.co.uk/index.php/...train-station/

Maybe we should blame the Irish?

In last night's 'George Gently', I was struck by the apparent
anachronism when 'train station' was used (New Year's Eve, 1969).
--
Ian

OT - the evolving English language
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 May 2015 15:11:00 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:



When I were a lad, no one would have dreamt of using 'train station'
(although you would occasionally see a some signs saying 'To The
'Trains'). It seems as if I woke up one morning, and found that everyone
was using it. I suppose it's an American import - but even so, 'railway
station' is not totally unknown over there.

One American who used it in a well known song was Paul Simon of the
duo Simon and Garfunkel who wrote the Song" Homeward Bound" in which
it appears, allegedly he came up with it while waiting for a train on
Widnes Railway station during the period he worked in the UK during a
depressed moment. I suppose being in Widnes in the early 60's could
have that effect. Whatever they also used Railway Station in the Song
the "The Boxer" on the Bridge over Troubled Waters Album which was
written later when in the US.

We have probably gone past the point of no return for the use of Train
Station on this side of the pond. In one part of the British Isles
the Railway themselves now uses it.

http://www.designid.co.uk/index.php/...train-station/

I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

OT - the evolving English language
 

"Phil L" wrote in message
...
I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

And, indeed, the railway itself is stationary wherever you encounter it.

OT - the evolving English language
 

gareth wrote:
"Phil L" wrote in message
...
I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

And, indeed, the railway itself is stationary wherever you encounter it.

Unless it's on a ferry, of course.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

OT - the evolving English language
 

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"Phil L" wrote in message
...
I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a
station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

And, indeed, the railway itself is stationary wherever you encounter it.

Unless it's on a ferry, of course.

But there would be only rails on a ferry, and not a way; by the same token,
a tarmacced car parking space is not a road.

OT - the evolving English language
 

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
gareth wrote:
"Phil L" wrote in message
...
I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

And, indeed, the railway itself is stationary wherever you encounter it.

Unless it's on a ferry, of course.

Or on a turntable.
--
Ian

OT - the evolving English language
 

gareth wrote:
"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"Phil L" wrote in message
...
I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a
station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

And, indeed, the railway itself is stationary wherever you encounter it.

Unless it's on a ferry, of course.

But there would be only rails on a ferry, and not a way; by the same token,
a tarmacced car parking space is not a road.

Nice nitpick! But my dictionary doesn't support it: "any set of rails
intended to facilitate the motion of wheels".

I wonder, do any rail ferries (or barges) load and unload from opposite
ends? If so, the rails would definitely qualify as a "way".

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

OT - the evolving English language
 

On 21/05/2015 12:59, Phil L wrote:

I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train



Maybe people should campaign for tramway stations, road stations (for
buses).

OT - the evolving English language
 

In message . com,
"dennis@home" writes
On 21/05/2015 12:59, Phil L wrote:

I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

Maybe people should campaign for tramway stations, road stations (for
buses).

I think that 'railway station' has been used virtually since the birth
of passenger transport by rail, whereas 'bus station', 'police station'
etc are relatively recent inventions. Although 'train station' is indeed
more logical, 'railway station' is not so outrageously incorrect as to
warrant swapping it for a goddamned Americanism.
--
Ian

OT - the evolving English language
 

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
gareth wrote:
"Phil L" wrote in message
...
I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a
station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police
can
be contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a
railway
without a train

And, indeed, the railway itself is stationary wherever you encounter
it.

Unless it's on a ferry, of course.

But there would be only rails on a ferry, and not a way; by the same
token,
a tarmacced car parking space is not a road.

Nice nitpick!

Mine or yours? :-)

OT - the evolving English language
 

In message , Mike Barnes
writes

I wonder, do any rail ferries (or barges) load and unload from opposite
ends? If so, the rails would definitely qualify as a "way".

Yes. Car floats, or barges, are still used in New York harbour and
elsewhere, although the floats themselves are unpowered, being towed by
a tug boat, but the cars (wagons) do indeed go on one end and off the
other.
--
Graeme

OT - the evolving English language
 

On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:24:16 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message . com,
"dennis@home" writes
On 21/05/2015 12:59, Phil L wrote:

I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

Maybe people should campaign for tramway stations, road stations (for
buses).

I think that 'railway station' has been used virtually since the birth
of passenger transport by rail, whereas 'bus station', 'police station'
etc are relatively recent inventions. Although 'train station' is indeed
more logical, 'railway station' is not so outrageously incorrect as to
warrant swapping it for a goddamned Americanism.

When I was a lad there was no such thing as a train station; there was
only the station.
--
Dave W

OT - the evolving English language
 

"Dave W" wrote in message
...

When I was a lad there was no such thing as a train station; there was
only the station.

Except where I grew up in Portishead, there were the radio, power, fire,
police, ambulance and railway stations, together with the remains of the
WC&P railway station.

OT - the evolving English language
 

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 21/05/2015 12:59, Phil L wrote:

I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a
station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train



Maybe people should campaign for tramway stations, road stations (for
buses).


A 'road station' implies that anything that uses the road will congregate
there, which is why we have 'bus station'

OT - the evolving English language
 

On 21/05/15 12:59, Phil L wrote:


I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

No, a station is a stopping point on a journey eg 'Stations of the Cross'.

OT - the evolving English language
 

On Thu, 21 May 2015 19:56:32 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/05/2015 12:59, Phil L wrote:

I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train



Maybe people should campaign for tramway stations,


http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1938053
Built 1932
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1584119
Built 1935


G.Harman

OT - the evolving English language
 

"DJC" wrote in message ...
On 21/05/15 12:59, Phil L wrote:


I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a
station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

No, a station is a stopping point on a journey eg 'Stations of the Cross'.

Are you sure? - what does police station mean then? - I assumed that it was
where police officers were stationed, likewise fire station, not for fires,
but for firefighters.
Trains are based at a station until they begin their journey, using a
railway.
Calling it a railway station is like calling a police station a 'beat
station' - it's where policemen are when they aren't on the beat

OT - the evolving English language
 

In message , Phil L
writes

"DJC" wrote in message ...
On 21/05/15 12:59, Phil L wrote:


I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a
station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

No, a station is a stopping point on a journey eg 'Stations of the Cross'.

Are you sure? - what does police station mean then? - I assumed that it was
where police officers were stationed, likewise fire station, not for fires,
but for firefighters.
Trains are based at a station until they begin their journey, using a
railway.
Calling it a railway station is like calling a police station a 'beat
station' - it's where policemen are when they aren't on the beat

When did English become a totally logical language - and one where all
the rules of grammar and pronunciation are always obeyed?

As 'station' comes from yer Latin, (sto, stare, steti, statum - 'to
stand'), does this mean that shouldn't expect to find any chairs at a
police station?


--
Ian

OT - the evolving English language
 

In article ,
Ian Jackson writes:
When did English become a totally logical language - and one where all
the rules of grammar and pronunciation are always obeyed?

As 'station' comes from yer Latin, (sto, stare, steti, statum - 'to
stand'), does this mean that shouldn't expect to find any chairs at a
police station?

During an office move some years ago, I found myself sending out an
email asking "Does anyone know where the stationary cupboard moved to?"

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

OT - the evolving English language
 

On Sun, 24 May 2015 15:42:13 +0000 (UTC), (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Ian Jackson writes:
When did English become a totally logical language - and one where all
the rules of grammar and pronunciation are always obeyed?

As 'station' comes from yer Latin, (sto, stare, steti, statum - 'to
stand'), does this mean that shouldn't expect to find any chairs at a
police station?

During an office move some years ago, I found myself sending out an
email asking "Does anyone know where the stationary cupboard moved to?"

Ah, you are a person who knows how to push the envelope.



--
Regards, Paul Herber
http://www.sandrila.co.uk/

OT - the evolving English language
 

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
In article , Phil L
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 May 2015 15:11:00 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:



When I were a lad, no one would have dreamt of using 'train station'
(although you would occasionally see a some signs saying 'To The
'Trains'). It seems as if I woke up one morning, and found that
everyone was using it. I suppose it's an American import - but even
so, 'railway station' is not totally unknown over there.

One American who used it in a well known song was Paul Simon of the
duo Simon and Garfunkel who wrote the Song" Homeward Bound" in which
it appears, allegedly he came up with it while waiting for a train on
Widnes Railway station during the period he worked in the UK during a
depressed moment. I suppose being in Widnes in the early 60's could
have that effect. Whatever they also used Railway Station in the Song
the "The Boxer" on the Bridge over Troubled Waters Album which was
written later when in the US.

We have probably gone past the point of no return for the use of Train
Station on this side of the pond. In one part of the British Isles
the Railway themselves now uses it.

http://www.designid.co.uk/index.php/...train-station/

I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a
station where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the
police can be contacted.

I'm really not interested in your analysis. We always called them railway
stations, everyone knew what was meant and that is all that matters. No
need to change it at all.

and - if they weren't railway stations you couldn't have the conundrum:

(Needs to be said out loud)

If you can weigh a whale at a whaleway station - where do you weigh a pie?

and the answer is;











































Somewhere over the rainbow.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

OT - the evolving English language
 

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Phil L
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 19 May 2015 15:11:00 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:



When I were a lad, no one would have dreamt of using 'train station'
(although you would occasionally see a some signs saying 'To The
'Trains'). It seems as if I woke up one morning, and found that everyone
was using it. I suppose it's an American import - but even so, 'railway
station' is not totally unknown over there.

One American who used it in a well known song was Paul Simon of the
duo Simon and Garfunkel who wrote the Song" Homeward Bound" in which
it appears, allegedly he came up with it while waiting for a train on
Widnes Railway station during the period he worked in the UK during a
depressed moment. I suppose being in Widnes in the early 60's could
have that effect. Whatever they also used Railway Station in the Song
the "The Boxer" on the Bridge over Troubled Waters Album which was
written later when in the US.

We have probably gone past the point of no return for the use of Train
Station on this side of the pond. In one part of the British Isles
the Railway themselves now uses it.

http://www.designid.co.uk/index.php/...train-station/

I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be contacted.

I'm really not interested in your analysis. We always called them
railway stations, everyone knew what was meant and that is all that
matters. No need to change it at all.

But it's been changed already, see the link above.
Don't get snippy with me because I mentioned that I thought train station
was correct, you can call them whatever you like.
People would have to be a halfwit if they couldn't work out what was meant
by 'train station' or 'railway station', likewise 'police station' and 'cop
shop' are universally understood. Who could give a flying toss either way
which terminology is used?

OT - the evolving English language
 

On Sunday, 24 May 2015 13:46:42 UTC+1, Phil L wrote:
"DJC" wrote in message ...
On 21/05/15 12:59, Phil L wrote:


I think 'train station' is a corrrect terminology, that is, it's a
station
where trains are accessed, like a police station is where the police can
be
contacted. 'Railway' is irrelevant because you can't access a railway
without a train

No, a station is a stopping point on a journey eg 'Stations of the Cross'.

Are you sure? - what does police station mean then? - I assumed that it was
where police officers were stationed, likewise fire station, not for fires,
but for firefighters.
Trains are based at a station until they begin their journey, using a
railway.

But why can't a train station be somewhere you start to train ;-)
(without moving obviously)



Calling it a railway station is like calling a police station a 'beat
station' - it's where policemen are when they aren't on the beat

OT - the evolving English language
 

On Sunday, 24 May 2015 16:43:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Ian Jackson writes:
When did English become a totally logical language - and one where all
the rules of grammar and pronunciation are always obeyed?

As 'station' comes from yer Latin, (sto, stare, steti, statum - 'to
stand'), does this mean that shouldn't expect to find any chairs at a
police station?

During an office move some years ago, I found myself sending out an
email asking "Does anyone know where the stationary cupboard moved to?"

I had an occasion when I had to ask "whose taken the loan book".

The loan book being the place where we record who has borrowed stuff.

OT - the evolving English language
 

On 26/05/2015 14:50, whisky-dave wrote:
I had an occasion when I had to ask "whose taken the loan book".

fx cue skitt

OT - the evolving English language
 

On Fri, 22 May 2015 14:30:19 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

"Dave W" wrote in message
.. .

When I was a lad there was no such thing as a train station; there was
only the station.

Except where I grew up in Portishead, there were the radio, power, fire,
police, ambulance and railway stations, together with the remains of the
WC&P railway station.

Yes indeed, but I doubt you would ever have said "have to be at the
railway station by 7am".

Let alone "have to be at the train station at 7am", as train stations
were only called that after American TV shows were absorbed into the
common consciousness.
--
Dave W

OT - the evolving English language
 

On Wednesday, 27 May 2015 20:40:36 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Fri, 22 May 2015 14:30:19 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

"Dave W" wrote in message
.. .

When I was a lad there was no such thing as a train station; there was
only the station.

Except where I grew up in Portishead, there were the radio, power, fire,
police, ambulance and railway stations, together with the remains of the
WC&P railway station.

Yes indeed, but I doubt you would ever have said "have to be at the
railway station by 7am".

Let alone "have to be at the train station at 7am", as train stations
were only called that after American TV shows were absorbed into the
common consciousness.

Do you have any prrof of that as it seems unlikely.

The world's first recorded railway station was The Mount on the Oystermouth Railway (later to be known as the Swansea and Mumbles) in Swansea, Wales,[2] which began passenger service in 1807.[3].

This was long before TV.