Any comments on this scenario please chaps?

I went to the place where I do the garden, put the lawn mower battery on
my charger, then went off to do other stuff for an hour or two.

Funny thing: when I connected the charger, it stuttered about a bit
showing "charging" (orange light in this case) then "fully charged
(green).

Since the mower's been idle all winter, I knew the battery couldn't
*really* be charged; it wouldn't even cough when I tried the starter
before connecting the charger. And so I left it at green, thinking it
would "sort itself out" -- I was in a hurry to get started on my other
tasks.

After an hour I came back: light on green; disconnected charger; tried
the engine: it coughed, then stopped; no further attempt at coughing:
battery obviously dead.

I connected the charger again and this time it stayed at orange
("charging"), implying that it might get properly charged this time! Had
to leave it though because the mower's not in a place where I can leave
the battery charging and me not there.

Any suggestions as to what happened here? Why did (nay: could) the
charger say "fully charged" when first connected?

The charger is new - a Ring RCB206 Automotive Dual Voltage Standard
Charge 6, 6amp, 6 or 12 volt (used it on 12 volt for the mower).

Any thoughts appreciated!
Cheers
John

On Wednesday, March 11, 2015 at 3:41:14 PM UTC, Another John wrote:
Any comments on this scenario please chaps?

I went to the place where I do the garden, put the lawn mower battery on
my charger, then went off to do other stuff for an hour or two.

Funny thing: when I connected the charger, it stuttered about a bit
showing "charging" (orange light in this case) then "fully charged
(green).

Since the mower's been idle all winter, I knew the battery couldn't
*really* be charged; it wouldn't even cough when I tried the starter
before connecting the charger. And so I left it at green, thinking it
would "sort itself out" -- I was in a hurry to get started on my other
tasks.

After an hour I came back: light on green; disconnected charger; tried
the engine: it coughed, then stopped; no further attempt at coughing:
battery obviously dead.

I connected the charger again and this time it stayed at orange
("charging"), implying that it might get properly charged this time! Had
to leave it though because the mower's not in a place where I can leave
the battery charging and me not there.

Any suggestions as to what happened here? Why did (nay: could) the
charger say "fully charged" when first connected?

The charger is new - a Ring RCB206 Automotive Dual Voltage Standard
Charge 6, 6amp, 6 or 12 volt (used it on 12 volt for the mower).

Any thoughts appreciated!
Cheers
John

Sounds a lot like like a dead battery. What else can one say?


NT

Assuming the charger is ok, it sounds like the battery has gone high
impedance, so not taking a charge. A high current discharge test is the
best way to check if it's knackered.

--
*Reality is the illusion that occurs due to the lack of alcohol *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ],
Another John wrote:
Since the mower's been idle all winter, I knew the battery couldn't
*really* be charged; it wouldn't even cough when I tried the starter
before connecting the charger. And so I left it at green, thinking it
would "sort itself out" -- I was in a hurry to get started on my other
tasks.

Assuming a lead acid, and no quiescent drain (unlikely on a lawn mower)
there's no reason why it shouldn't retain most of its charge over winter.
You did charge it before laying it up? Lead acid don't like being left in
a discharged state.

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks a lot for the replies so far!

I hope the battery's not dead! When I tried to take it out last year
(when I first started this job) it would NOT come out of the mower body,
following the manual's instructions. I may have to take the mower apart
to get the battery out.

I will have another go at charging next time I'm across. And No Dave,
I didn't charge it last thing last autumn, mainly because (having
successfully charged it when I took this job on last year) it always
started first time thereafter (it takes about 90 minutes to cut the
grass).

Cheers for now
John

On Wednesday, March 11, 2015 at 7:17:55 PM UTC, Another John wrote:
Thanks a lot for the replies so far!

I hope the battery's not dead! When I tried to take it out last year
(when I first started this job) it would NOT come out of the mower body,
following the manual's instructions. I may have to take the mower apart
to get the battery out.

I will have another go at charging next time I'm across. And No Dave,
I didn't charge it last thing last autumn, mainly because (having
successfully charged it when I took this job on last year) it always
started first time thereafter (it takes about 90 minutes to cut the
grass).

Cheers for now
John

Get yer string out.


NT

/Get yer string out.


NT /q

How predictably cryptic.

Jim K

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:17:52 +0000, Another John
wrote:

I hope the battery's not dead! When I tried to take it out last year
(when I first started this job) it would NOT come out of the mower body,
following the manual's instructions. I may have to take the mower apart
to get the battery out.

I will have another go at charging next time I'm across. And No Dave,
I didn't charge it last thing last autumn, mainly because (having
successfully charged it when I took this job on last year) it always
started first time thereafter (it takes about 90 minutes to cut the
grass).

If it is a sealed lead acid battery (SLA) it is almost certainly
defunct, they really dislike being left discharged for any length of
time.

In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:17:52 +0000, Another John
wrote:

I hope the battery's not dead! When I tried to take it out last year
(when I first started this job) it would NOT come out of the mower body,
following the manual's instructions. I may have to take the mower apart
to get the battery out.

I will have another go at charging next time I'm across. And No Dave,
I didn't charge it last thing last autumn, mainly because (having
successfully charged it when I took this job on last year) it always
started first time thereafter (it takes about 90 minutes to cut the
grass).

If it is a sealed lead acid battery (SLA) it is almost certainly
defunct, they really dislike being left discharged for any length of
time.

Charge it up. Leave it disconnected for 48 hours then check the voltage.
You'll soon see if a cell has gone down.
--
bert

On Wednesday, March 11, 2015 at 11:23:08 PM UTC, bert wrote:
In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:17:52 +0000, Another John
wrote:

I hope the battery's not dead! When I tried to take it out last year
(when I first started this job) it would NOT come out of the mower body,
following the manual's instructions. I may have to take the mower apart
to get the battery out.

I will have another go at charging next time I'm across. And No Dave,
I didn't charge it last thing last autumn, mainly because (having
successfully charged it when I took this job on last year) it always
started first time thereafter (it takes about 90 minutes to cut the
grass).

If it is a sealed lead acid battery (SLA) it is almost certainly
defunct, they really dislike being left discharged for any length of
time.

Charge it up. Leave it disconnected for 48 hours then check the voltage.
You'll soon see if a cell has gone down.

If its sulphated it won't charge to any significant capacity. Folks used to mess around conencting such batteries to a high charging voltage, but I'm not convinced it was ever very successful. Lets hope the mower has a suitable pulley for ye old pull start.


NT

On 11/03/2015 19:17, Another John wrote:
Thanks a lot for the replies so far!

I hope the battery's not dead! When I tried to take it out last year
(when I first started this job) it would NOT come out of the mower body,
following the manual's instructions. I may have to take the mower apart
to get the battery out.

I will have another go at charging next time I'm across. And No Dave,
I didn't charge it last thing last autumn, mainly because (having
successfully charged it when I took this job on last year) it always
started first time thereafter (it takes about 90 minutes to cut the
grass).

Your least worst option now is to charge it for a couple of hours with a
dumb as a rock simple lead acid battery charger to see if you can get
any charge to stick (ie. enough to start the mower). If it won't hold
charge for at least a week you are stuck with replacing it.

Ideally an initial charge rate of C/10 to C/5 but keep an eye on it.

Smart chargers will sense battery parameters and do a safety cutout if
the battery has gone high impedance or has one cell reverse polarised.
The lifetime of the SLA has been compromised - possibly to zero.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
wrote:

Get yer string out.

And (thankfully!) put it another way:

If its sulphated it won't charge to any significant capacity. Folks used to
mess around conencting such batteries to a high charging voltage, but I'm not
convinced it was ever very successful. Lets hope the mower has a suitable
pulley for ye old pull start.

Thanks NT - Nope: no pull start on this mower. (It's a Murray, maybe
4-5 years old and a B&S engine. Must say it's not as nice as the
Mountfield I used to use on another job, but it's reasonable.)

Cheers
John

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Your least worst option now is to charge it for a couple of hours with a
dumb as a rock simple lead acid battery charger to see if you can get
any charge to stick (ie. enough to start the mower). If it won't hold
charge for at least a week you are stuck with replacing it.

Ideally an initial charge rate of C/10 to C/5 but keep an eye on it.

Smart chargers will sense battery parameters and do a safety cutout if
the battery has gone high impedance or has one cell reverse polarised.
The lifetime of the SLA has been compromised - possibly to zero.

Thanks Martin ... yerrrsss: my charger is "dumb as a rock": just has
lights (no dials or meters), and very little in the way of controls (in
fact just one switch: 6V or 12V?!)

I regretted buying it as soon as I got it, but it cost about 35 quid and
was reluctant to spend more, especially as I myself know almost nothing
about electrics/electronics.

I'll see what happens next time I go across and give it another charge.
I'll report back, as I really do appreciate the help you've all supplied.

John

On 12/03/2015 10:18, Another John wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Your least worst option now is to charge it for a couple of hours with a
dumb as a rock simple lead acid battery charger to see if you can get
any charge to stick (ie. enough to start the mower). If it won't hold
charge for at least a week you are stuck with replacing it.

Ideally an initial charge rate of C/10 to C/5 but keep an eye on it.

Smart chargers will sense battery parameters and do a safety cutout if
the battery has gone high impedance or has one cell reverse polarised.
The lifetime of the SLA has been compromised - possibly to zero.

Thanks Martin ... yerrrsss: my charger is "dumb as a rock": just has
lights (no dials or meters), and very little in the way of controls (in
fact just one switch: 6V or 12V?!)

I regretted buying it as soon as I got it, but it cost about 35 quid and
was reluctant to spend more, especially as I myself know almost nothing
about electrics/electronics.

I'll see what happens next time I go across and give it another charge.
I'll report back, as I really do appreciate the help you've all supplied.

John

Do you own the mower?
If "yes" change the battery or get it changed.
If "No" - then "Hey Boss, Sorry but the mower wont start - who has your
repair account"?

--
Blow my nose to email me

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On Thursday, March 12, 2015 at 10:18:55 AM UTC, Another John wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Your least worst option now is to charge it for a couple of hours with a
dumb as a rock simple lead acid battery charger to see if you can get
any charge to stick (ie. enough to start the mower). If it won't hold
charge for at least a week you are stuck with replacing it.

Ideally an initial charge rate of C/10 to C/5 but keep an eye on it.

Smart chargers will sense battery parameters and do a safety cutout if
the battery has gone high impedance or has one cell reverse polarised.
The lifetime of the SLA has been compromised - possibly to zero.

surely to zero

Thanks Martin ... yerrrsss: my charger is "dumb as a rock": just has
lights (no dials or meters), and very little in the way of controls (in
fact just one switch: 6V or 12V?!)

if it has a 'charged' light then its not entirely dumb

I regretted buying it as soon as I got it, but it cost about 35 quid and
was reluctant to spend more, especially as I myself know almost nothing
about electrics/electronics.

A used dumb charger is worth nearer £3.50

I'll see what happens next time I go across and give it another charge.
I'll report back, as I really do appreciate the help you've all supplied.

If you want to try and overcome sulpahtion you need to hit it with much higher voltage. But realistically, scrap it and get a new battery.


NT

On 12/03/2015 10:18, Another John wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Your least worst option now is to charge it for a couple of hours with a
dumb as a rock simple lead acid battery charger to see if you can get
any charge to stick (ie. enough to start the mower). If it won't hold
charge for at least a week you are stuck with replacing it.

Ideally an initial charge rate of C/10 to C/5 but keep an eye on it.

Smart chargers will sense battery parameters and do a safety cutout if
the battery has gone high impedance or has one cell reverse polarised.
The lifetime of the SLA has been compromised - possibly to zero.

Thanks Martin ... yerrrsss: my charger is "dumb as a rock": just has
lights (no dials or meters), and very little in the way of controls (in
fact just one switch: 6V or 12V?!)

Putting a multimeter in series on the amps range to see what current is
flowing might be informative. Or just look for the spark when you make
the connection to show that there really is some output.

I regretted buying it as soon as I got it, but it cost about 35 quid and
was reluctant to spend more, especially as I myself know almost nothing
about electrics/electronics.

I find dumb as a rock ones OK provided you remember to either charge at
C/10 or religiously set a timer/alarm to switch off when fully charged.

I'll see what happens next time I go across and give it another charge.
I'll report back, as I really do appreciate the help you've all supplied.

John

Rapidonline have a reasonable selection of SLA batteries at fairly
decent prices. The official lawnmower spare will be overpriced though
probably not by as much as wheelchair batteries. It does have to be
pretty rugged and robust to stand up to the vibration on a lawnmower.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thursday, March 12, 2015 at 11:23:04 AM UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 12/03/2015 10:18, Another John wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Your least worst option now is to charge it for a couple of hours with a
dumb as a rock simple lead acid battery charger to see if you can get
any charge to stick (ie. enough to start the mower). If it won't hold
charge for at least a week you are stuck with replacing it.

Ideally an initial charge rate of C/10 to C/5 but keep an eye on it.

Smart chargers will sense battery parameters and do a safety cutout if
the battery has gone high impedance or has one cell reverse polarised.
The lifetime of the SLA has been compromised - possibly to zero.

Thanks Martin ... yerrrsss: my charger is "dumb as a rock": just has
lights (no dials or meters), and very little in the way of controls (in
fact just one switch: 6V or 12V?!)

Putting a multimeter in series on the amps range to see what current is
flowing might be informative. Or just look for the spark when you make
the connection to show that there really is some output.

I regretted buying it as soon as I got it, but it cost about 35 quid and
was reluctant to spend more, especially as I myself know almost nothing
about electrics/electronics.

I find dumb as a rock ones OK provided you remember to either charge at
C/10 or religiously set a timer/alarm to switch off when fully charged.

I'll see what happens next time I go across and give it another charge.
I'll report back, as I really do appreciate the help you've all supplied.

John

Rapidonline have a reasonable selection of SLA batteries at fairly
decent prices. The official lawnmower spare will be overpriced though
probably not by as much as wheelchair batteries. It does have to be
pretty rugged and robust to stand up to the vibration on a lawnmower.

yes - there are ones suited to that, you'll need one, not an NP type.


NT

Any comments on this scenario please chaps?

I went to the place where I do the garden, put the lawn mower battery on
my charger, then went off to do other stuff for an hour or two.

Funny thing: when I connected the charger, it stuttered about a bit
showing "charging" (orange light in this case) then "fully charged
(green).

Since the mower's been idle all winter, I knew the battery couldn't
*really* be charged; it wouldn't even cough when I tried the starter
before connecting the charger. And so I left it at green, thinking it
would "sort itself out" -- I was in a hurry to get started on my other
tasks.

After an hour I came back: light on green; disconnected charger; tried
the engine: it coughed, then stopped; no further attempt at coughing:
battery obviously dead.

I connected the charger again and this time it stayed at orange
("charging"), implying that it might get properly charged this time! Had
to leave it though because the mower's not in a place where I can leave
the battery charging and me not there.

Any suggestions as to what happened here? Why did (nay: could) the
charger say "fully charged" when first connected?

Can you get your vehicle neat it?

If so hook them together with jump leads, leave the leads on with vehicle
engine running for 10 mins, then start it whilst still connected. The extra
oomph of the vehicle alternator charging it may help bring the battery back
to life, but at least the mower will be started.

Mike

On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 2:41:53 PM UTC, Muddymike wrote:
Any comments on this scenario please chaps?

I went to the place where I do the garden, put the lawn mower battery on
my charger, then went off to do other stuff for an hour or two.

Funny thing: when I connected the charger, it stuttered about a bit
showing "charging" (orange light in this case) then "fully charged
(green).

Since the mower's been idle all winter, I knew the battery couldn't
*really* be charged; it wouldn't even cough when I tried the starter
before connecting the charger. And so I left it at green, thinking it
would "sort itself out" -- I was in a hurry to get started on my other
tasks.

After an hour I came back: light on green; disconnected charger; tried
the engine: it coughed, then stopped; no further attempt at coughing:
battery obviously dead.

I connected the charger again and this time it stayed at orange
("charging"), implying that it might get properly charged this time! Had
to leave it though because the mower's not in a place where I can leave
the battery charging and me not there.

Any suggestions as to what happened here? Why did (nay: could) the
charger say "fully charged" when first connected?

Can you get your vehicle neat it?

If so hook them together with jump leads, leave the leads on with vehicle
engine running for 10 mins, then start it whilst still connected. The extra
oomph of the vehicle alternator charging it may help bring the battery back
to life, but at least the mower will be started.

Mike

or push start it. An alternator doesnt provide any extra charge voltage.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 2:41:53 PM UTC, Muddymike wrote:
Any comments on this scenario please chaps?

I went to the place where I do the garden, put the lawn mower battery on
my charger, then went off to do other stuff for an hour or two.

Funny thing: when I connected the charger, it stuttered about a bit
showing "charging" (orange light in this case) then "fully charged
(green).

Since the mower's been idle all winter, I knew the battery couldn't
*really* be charged; it wouldn't even cough when I tried the starter
before connecting the charger. And so I left it at green, thinking it
would "sort itself out" -- I was in a hurry to get started on my other
tasks.

After an hour I came back: light on green; disconnected charger; tried
the engine: it coughed, then stopped; no further attempt at coughing:
battery obviously dead.

I connected the charger again and this time it stayed at orange
("charging"), implying that it might get properly charged this time! Had
to leave it though because the mower's not in a place where I can leave
the battery charging and me not there.

Any suggestions as to what happened here? Why did (nay: could) the
charger say "fully charged" when first connected?

Can you get your vehicle neat it?

If so hook them together with jump leads, leave the leads on with vehicle
engine running for 10 mins, then start it whilst still connected. The
extra
oomph of the vehicle alternator charging it may help bring the battery
back
to life, but at least the mower will be started.

Mike

or push start it. An alternator doesnt provide any extra charge voltage.

No extra voltage but is a very stupid charger in the sense that
it doesn't try to decide if the lawnmower battery is charged or not.