I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc. Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

Any feedback appreciated.

Cheers,

Gordon

On 04/03/2015 17:20, Gordon Henderson wrote:
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc. Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Obvious one is that tannins in tea or split wine will react with traces
of iron in the wood unless you either oil or beeswax it to make it close
to waterproof. It is quite hard to match the finish exactly when spills
of hot liquids or alcohol take the shine off the surface.

I would oil or beeswax a kitchen top or table for this reason. YMMV

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

Any feedback appreciated.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 04/03/15 17:20, Gordon Henderson wrote:
So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

The deal is that underslung sinks leave an undriable lip that rots, and
wives brought up on Formica and stainless steel haven't a forking clew
and destroy the wood.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In article , Gordon Henderson
writes
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc. Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

I'm in a similar spot and am drifting away from wooden ones. I don't see
those made of little blocks glued together as very impressive so if I
went wood I'd probably want ones made of serious planks (100mm wide,
40mm deep and full length) with a complimentary machined edges to hold
everything together in the long term. Those specs make wood a very
expensive option and I just don't like it enough spend a lot of money on
them. I'd like a near black deeply embedded stain too but I don't think
that is possible.

I think postformed (rounded) edge plastic worktops are a bit yesterday
but I have seen some nice looking ones with squared off edges and
particularly like ones with a contrasting edge strip. I'd always take
one with a slight texture on top as I think they look better and you're
not constantly wiping off fingermarks. One of these would be my choice.

Stone worktops have never done anything for me.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 04/03/2015 17:20, Gordon Henderson wrote:
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc. Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

Any feedback appreciated.

Cheers,

Gordon

I had oak worktops in my last kitchen and this one will probably be
iroko (when I get to doing it). I oiled them from the start, so don't
know what they would be like without, but oiling really isn't that big a
deal: Clear them off, wipe the oil over and go (to work, to bed, the
pub, on holiday, whatever). It doesn't take long to dry unless you put
it on too thick, when it will go gummy, but that's easily sorted.
The oak never really looked oiled, but water would bead on the surface,
which I took to be a good thing as it meant it couldn't soak in and stain.
As water doesn't soak in to any significant extent, there's no real
problem with around a sink - laminate ones are much worse in this
respect and can swell up and flake the surface off if water gets into
the chipboard base.
Cherry looks nice but as it's quite pale it could get tatty pretty
quickly if things start to soak in and stain it.
The other thing I would advise is to plan on routing a radius or a
chamfer on the edge. Wood worktops are nearly always square and the
slightest knock will make a small chip, which you'll notice forever.
Somehow, a radius doesn't suffer that problem IME but, if you put a
small one on to start, it can always be refinished if it does take a big
clonk.

On 04/03/15 19:19, GMM wrote:

I had oak worktops in my last kitchen and this one will probably be
iroko (when I get to doing it). I oiled them from the start, so don't
know what they would be like without, but oiling really isn't that big a
deal: Clear them off, wipe the oil over and go (to work, to bed, the
pub, on holiday, whatever). It doesn't take long to dry unless you put
it on too thick, when it will go gummy, but that's easily sorted.
The oak never really looked oiled, but water would bead on the surface,
which I took to be a good thing as it meant it couldn't soak in and stain.
As water doesn't soak in to any significant extent, there's no real
problem with around a sink - laminate ones are much worse in this
respect and can swell up and flake the surface off if water gets into
the chipboard base.
Cherry looks nice but as it's quite pale it could get tatty pretty
quickly if things start to soak in and stain it.
The other thing I would advise is to plan on routing a radius or a
chamfer on the edge. Wood worktops are nearly always square and the
slightest knock will make a small chip, which you'll notice forever.
Somehow, a radius doesn't suffer that problem IME but, if you put a
small one on to start, it can always be refinished if it does take a big
clonk.

For what it's worth, mine are done with Liberon oil.

The actual worktops are pitch pine which I am assured is pretty
bombproof with respect to water. That remains to be seen...

BTW - be careful machining the iroko - the dust is supposed to be not
too good for you.

"GMM" wrote in message
...
On 04/03/2015 17:20, Gordon Henderson wrote:
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc.
Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a
sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

Any feedback appreciated.

Cheers,

Gordon

I had oak worktops in my last kitchen and this one will probably be iroko
(when I get to doing it). I oiled them from the start, so don't know what
they would be like without, but oiling really isn't that big a deal:
Clear them off, wipe the oil over and go (to work, to bed, the pub, on
holiday, whatever). It doesn't take long to dry unless you put it on too
thick, when it will go gummy, but that's easily sorted.
The oak never really looked oiled, but water would bead on the surface,
which I took to be a good thing as it meant it couldn't soak in and stain.
As water doesn't soak in to any significant extent, there's no real
problem with around a sink - laminate ones are much worse in this respect
and can swell up and flake the surface off if water gets into the
chipboard base.
Cherry looks nice but as it's quite pale it could get tatty pretty quickly
if things start to soak in and stain it.
The other thing I would advise is to plan on routing a radius or a chamfer
on the edge. Wood worktops are nearly always square and the slightest
knock will make a small chip, which you'll notice forever. Somehow, a
radius doesn't suffer that problem IME but, if you put a small one on to
start, it can always be refinished if it does take a big clonk.
I think this excellent advice.
Nick.

"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc.
Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a
sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

Any feedback appreciated.

Cheers,

Gordon

Purely out of interest, why is stone not an option?
Nick.

On 04/03/2015 19:50, Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/03/15 19:19, GMM wrote:

I had oak worktops in my last kitchen and this one will probably be
iroko (when I get to doing it). I oiled them from the start, so don't
know what they would be like without, but oiling really isn't that big a
deal: Clear them off, wipe the oil over and go (to work, to bed, the
pub, on holiday, whatever). It doesn't take long to dry unless you put
it on too thick, when it will go gummy, but that's easily sorted.
The oak never really looked oiled, but water would bead on the surface,
which I took to be a good thing as it meant it couldn't soak in and
stain.
As water doesn't soak in to any significant extent, there's no real
problem with around a sink - laminate ones are much worse in this
respect and can swell up and flake the surface off if water gets into
the chipboard base.
Cherry looks nice but as it's quite pale it could get tatty pretty
quickly if things start to soak in and stain it.
The other thing I would advise is to plan on routing a radius or a
chamfer on the edge. Wood worktops are nearly always square and the
slightest knock will make a small chip, which you'll notice forever.
Somehow, a radius doesn't suffer that problem IME but, if you put a
small one on to start, it can always be refinished if it does take a big
clonk.

For what it's worth, mine are done with Liberon oil.

The actual worktops are pitch pine which I am assured is pretty
bombproof with respect to water. That remains to be seen...

BTW - be careful machining the iroko - the dust is supposed to be not
too good for you.

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

On 04/03/15 20:28, stuart noble wrote:
On 04/03/2015 19:50, Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/03/15 19:19, GMM wrote:

I had oak worktops in my last kitchen and this one will probably be
iroko (when I get to doing it). I oiled them from the start, so don't
know what they would be like without, but oiling really isn't that big a
deal: Clear them off, wipe the oil over and go (to work, to bed, the
pub, on holiday, whatever). It doesn't take long to dry unless you put
it on too thick, when it will go gummy, but that's easily sorted.
The oak never really looked oiled, but water would bead on the surface,
which I took to be a good thing as it meant it couldn't soak in and
stain.
As water doesn't soak in to any significant extent, there's no real
problem with around a sink - laminate ones are much worse in this
respect and can swell up and flake the surface off if water gets into
the chipboard base.
Cherry looks nice but as it's quite pale it could get tatty pretty
quickly if things start to soak in and stain it.
The other thing I would advise is to plan on routing a radius or a
chamfer on the edge. Wood worktops are nearly always square and the
slightest knock will make a small chip, which you'll notice forever.
Somehow, a radius doesn't suffer that problem IME but, if you put a
small one on to start, it can always be refinished if it does take a big
clonk.

For what it's worth, mine are done with Liberon oil.

The actual worktops are pitch pine which I am assured is pretty
bombproof with respect to water. That remains to be seen...

BTW - be careful machining the iroko - the dust is supposed to be not
too good for you.

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

Er no. Ive seen NHS nurses preparing skin grafts on wooden blocks. Wood
is actually quite antiseptic.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 04/03/15 20:28, stuart noble wrote:
On 04/03/2015 19:50, Tim Watts wrote:

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

I disagree. Finished properly they are as good as most other materials.

And they are more maintainable (ie you can sand a burn mark out and
recoat). They're also kinder to crockery.

But poor quality wood (like that birch strip crap all the sheds sell) is
a nightmare.

Gordon Henderson wrote:
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc. Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

Any feedback appreciated.

Cheers,

Gordon

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean, use
wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked if
you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have spare
tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

On 04/03/15 20:43, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean,
use wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked
if you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have
spare tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

I agree tiles do make an interesting and practical surface. Did you do
anything special with the grout? Only IME it's the grout that gets
filthy and resistant to cleaning...

On 04/03/2015 20:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/03/15 20:28, stuart noble wrote:
On 04/03/2015 19:50, Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/03/15 19:19, GMM wrote:

I had oak worktops in my last kitchen and this one will probably be
iroko (when I get to doing it). I oiled them from the start, so don't
know what they would be like without, but oiling really isn't that
big a
deal: Clear them off, wipe the oil over and go (to work, to bed, the
pub, on holiday, whatever). It doesn't take long to dry unless you put
it on too thick, when it will go gummy, but that's easily sorted.
The oak never really looked oiled, but water would bead on the surface,
which I took to be a good thing as it meant it couldn't soak in and
stain.
As water doesn't soak in to any significant extent, there's no real
problem with around a sink - laminate ones are much worse in this
respect and can swell up and flake the surface off if water gets into
the chipboard base.
Cherry looks nice but as it's quite pale it could get tatty pretty
quickly if things start to soak in and stain it.
The other thing I would advise is to plan on routing a radius or a
chamfer on the edge. Wood worktops are nearly always square and the
slightest knock will make a small chip, which you'll notice forever.
Somehow, a radius doesn't suffer that problem IME but, if you put a
small one on to start, it can always be refinished if it does take a
big
clonk.

For what it's worth, mine are done with Liberon oil.

The actual worktops are pitch pine which I am assured is pretty
bombproof with respect to water. That remains to be seen...

BTW - be careful machining the iroko - the dust is supposed to be not
too good for you.

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

Er no. Ive seen NHS nurses preparing skin grafts on wooden blocks. Wood
is actually quite antiseptic.


According to gov guidelines
"surfaces need to be made of materials that
are smooth, washable, corrosion-resistant and non-toxic"
I wouldn't regard wood as smooth or washable, and it is certainly
capable of absorbing liquids

On 04/03/15 20:58, stuart noble wrote:

According to gov guidelines
"surfaces need to be made of materials that
are smooth, washable, corrosion-resistant and non-toxic"
I wouldn't regard wood as smooth or washable, and it is certainly
capable of absorbing liquids

But there is a long standing notion that it does have antiseptic properties.

It can't be too bad or butchers would not have wooden chopping tables
soaked in blood all day.

In article ,
Nick wrote:

"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc.
Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a
sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

Any feedback appreciated.

Cheers,

Gordon

Purely out of interest, why is stone not an option?

We won't get it up the stairs.

Gordon

Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/03/15 20:43, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean,
use wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked
if you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have
spare tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

I agree tiles do make an interesting and practical surface. Did you do
anything special with the grout? Only IME it's the grout that gets
filthy and resistant to cleaning...

Originally, I used grout powder with a mix of vinyl silk and enamel
paint. It was a pig to do as you had to allow at least 24hrs for it to
set and then rub it down with a golden fleece and lots of water. It
stayed just fractionally flexible, so there were no cracks. Later, I
used epoxy grout when changing over the sink and having to redo part of
the surface as the sink was a different shape. The great advantage is
that a really hot pan goes straight down onto the surface without
damaging it. All the other surfaces (except perhaps stainless) can't
withstand this and also need sealing if granite etc. It's painless to
clean IME.

On 04/03/15 23:01, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/03/15 20:43, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean,
use wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked
if you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have
spare tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

I agree tiles do make an interesting and practical surface. Did you do
anything special with the grout? Only IME it's the grout that gets
filthy and resistant to cleaning...

Originally, I used grout powder with a mix of vinyl silk and enamel
paint. It was a pig to do as you had to allow at least 24hrs for it to
set and then rub it down with a golden fleece and lots of water. It
stayed just fractionally flexible, so there were no cracks. Later, I
used epoxy grout when changing over the sink and having to redo part of
the surface as the sink was a different shape. The great advantage is
that a really hot pan goes straight down onto the surface without
damaging it. All the other surfaces (except perhaps stainless) can't
withstand this and also need sealing if granite etc. It's painless to
clean IME.

Makes mental note

Thanks for that - most interesting.

Was the epoxy grout difficult to work with?

"stuart noble" wrote in message news:mVJJw.259846

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

That's exactly what EHO's were claiming in the early 90's
when successfully closing down butchers shops, craft cheese
makers who relied on wooden shelving and even the naval
tradition of stirring rum with an oar on Trafalgar Day.

Then a few years later after all the damage was done it was
found thet wood had antibacterial properties and was in fact
more hygenich than plastic. In short wood absorbs bacteria
by capillary action where they eventally die whereas
bacteria can thrive in microscopic cuts in plastic
boards.

quote

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden
cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics.
Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and
Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was
being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other
foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that
disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces
in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were
used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were
easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been
used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas
plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and
disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat
were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant
damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.


Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are found
alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently do not
multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by splitting or
gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one surface to
the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces after used
plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually,
more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood surface.

/quote

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/fa...ttingboard.htm


michael adams

....

On 05/03/15 00:11, michael adams wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message news:mVJJw.259846

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

That's exactly what EHO's were claiming in the early 90's
when successfully closing down butchers shops, craft cheese
makers who relied on wooden shelving and even the naval
tradition of stirring rum with an oar on Trafalgar Day.

Then a few years later after all the damage was done it was
found thet wood had antibacterial properties and was in fact
more hygenich than plastic. In short wood absorbs bacteria
by capillary action where they eventally die whereas
bacteria can thrive in microscopic cuts in plastic
boards.

quote

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden
cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics.
Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and
Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was
being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other
foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that
disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces
in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were
used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were
easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been
used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas
plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and
disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat
were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant
damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.


Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are found
alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently do not
multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by splitting or
gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one surface to
the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces after used
plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually,
more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood surface.

/quote

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/fa...ttingboard.htm

Well, that's nice to know that what my mother knew in 1960 (she had a
diploma in hotel and catering management) has been proven by science.

This is why I ignore ignorant faddy ideas - at least until they are
verified.

BTW - the fact that plastic boards are unhygenic seems obvious to me.
Their only pluses are kind to knives and can be semi-sterilised in the
dishwasher which is the only reason I don't like wood.

I'm using a resin bonded paper board. Still scratches but no where near
as deeply as a knife gouges plastic and still dishwashable.

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:42:40 PM UTC, Capitol wrote:
Gordon Henderson wrote:
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc. Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have a sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

Any feedback appreciated.

Cheers,

Gordon

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean, use
wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked if
you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have spare
tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

Soooooooooooooooooooo 1960's

On 05/03/15 08:21, fred wrote:
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:42:40 PM UTC, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean, use
wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked if
you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have spare
tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

Soooooooooooooooooooo 1960's


Ah - then it's due back...

Just waiting for orange and brown decor to resurface...

This is why fashion is ********. I think the real reason people sneer at
old stuff is that, if you see old stuff, it's, well, old.

Back in the day everyone was happy with it.

On 05/03/15 08:35, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 08:21, fred wrote:
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:42:40 PM UTC, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to
clean, use
wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked if
you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have spare
tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

Soooooooooooooooooooo 1960's


Ah - then it's due back...

Just waiting for orange and brown decor to resurface...

This is why fashion is ********. I think the real reason people sneer at
old stuff is that, if you see old stuff, it's, well, old.

Back in the day everyone was happy with it.

I have always liked avocado toilet ware

(ducks and runs)


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:32:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 05/03/15 08:35, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 08:21, fred wrote:
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:42:40 PM UTC, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to
clean, use
wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked if
you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have spare
tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

Soooooooooooooooooooo 1960's


Ah - then it's due back...

Just waiting for orange and brown decor to resurface...

This is why fashion is ********. I think the real reason people sneer at
old stuff is that, if you see old stuff, it's, well, old.

Back in the day everyone was happy with it.

I have always liked avocado toilet ware

(ducks and runs)

That combination might improve the colour ...



--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd.
http://www.sandrila.co.uk/

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 04/03/15 17:20, Gordon Henderson wrote:
So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

The deal is that underslung sinks leave an undriable lip that rots, and
wives brought up on Formica and stainless steel haven't a forking clew and
destroy the wood.

I suspect that, on this issue, the average husband hasn't got a forking clue
either

tim

On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 8:35:26 AM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 08:21, fred wrote:
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:42:40 PM UTC, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean, use
wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked if
you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have spare
tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

Soooooooooooooooooooo 1960's


Ah - then it's due back...

Just waiting for orange and brown decor to resurface...

This is why fashion is ********. I think the real reason people sneer at
old stuff is that, if you see old stuff, it's, well, old.

Back in the day everyone was happy with it.

But that is why it comes back into fashion. To the new generations it isn't old looking,they haven't seen it before, but it is to those who experienced it first time round.

Coincidentally I was in a works canteen yesterday and the tables had a beech frame with a beech surround to the top containing red tiles. To my eyes it screamed Naff.

Mind you they also had grey ash desks in their offices. A short lived fad of 20 odd years ago.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/03/15 23:01, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/03/15 20:43, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean,
use wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be
cracked
if you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have
spare tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

I agree tiles do make an interesting and practical surface. Did you do
anything special with the grout? Only IME it's the grout that gets
filthy and resistant to cleaning...

Originally, I used grout powder with a mix of vinyl silk and enamel
paint. It was a pig to do as you had to allow at least 24hrs for it to
set and then rub it down with a golden fleece and lots of water. It
stayed just fractionally flexible, so there were no cracks. Later, I
used epoxy grout when changing over the sink and having to redo part of
the surface as the sink was a different shape. The great advantage is
that a really hot pan goes straight down onto the surface without
damaging it. All the other surfaces (except perhaps stainless) can't
withstand this and also need sealing if granite etc. It's painless to
clean IME.

Makes mental note

Thanks for that - most interesting.

Was the epoxy grout difficult to work with?

Not IME.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/03/15 08:35, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 08:21, fred wrote:
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:42:40 PM UTC, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to
clean, use
wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked if
you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have spare
tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

Soooooooooooooooooooo 1960's


Ah - then it's due back...

Just waiting for orange and brown decor to resurface...

This is why fashion is ********. I think the real reason people sneer at
old stuff is that, if you see old stuff, it's, well, old.

Back in the day everyone was happy with it.

I have always liked avocado toilet ware

(ducks and runs)



I preferred champagne and the colour.

On 04/03/2015 18:05, fred wrote:
In article , Gordon Henderson
writes
I'm considering some new worktops - ye olde plastic laminate type or
wood. Wondering about the fuss over "oiling" the wood ones or not. It's
probably going to be cherry if that matters. (Or something similar light
red but not beech)

Worktops will be mainly used for baking - bread making, cakes, etc.
Unlikely
to ever have hot tomato/curry sauces split for example. One will have
a sink
in it.

So what's the deal on leaving them unoiled and just making sure they're
scrubbed clean and dried after use?

Or am I better off sticking to plastic. (stone isn't an option)

I'm in a similar spot and am drifting away from wooden ones. I don't see
those made of little blocks glued together as very impressive so if I
went wood I'd probably want ones made of serious planks (100mm wide,
40mm deep and full length) with a complimentary machined edges to hold
everything together in the long term. Those specs make wood a very
expensive option and I just don't like it enough spend a lot of money on
them.

Those specs make it a very DIYable options though... especially if you
have or know someone with a planer/thicknesser.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 05/03/15 10:42, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Was the epoxy grout difficult to work with?

Not IME.

Do you have to be careful to clean it off the tile faces? Or can it be
polished off dried like regular grout?

On 05/03/2015 07:51, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 00:11, michael adams wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
news:mVJJw.259846

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

That's exactly what EHO's were claiming in the early 90's
when successfully closing down butchers shops, craft cheese
makers who relied on wooden shelving and even the naval
tradition of stirring rum with an oar on Trafalgar Day.

Then a few years later after all the damage was done it was
found thet wood had antibacterial properties and was in fact
more hygenich than plastic. In short wood absorbs bacteria
by capillary action where they eventally die whereas
bacteria can thrive in microscopic cuts in plastic
boards.

quote

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden
cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as
plastics.
Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and
Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was
being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other
foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that
disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces
in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were
used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were
easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been
used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas
plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and
disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat
were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant
damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.


Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are
found
alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently
do not
multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by
splitting or
gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one
surface to
the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces
after used
plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually,
more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a
used wood surface.

/quote

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/fa...ttingboard.htm


Well, that's nice to know that what my mother knew in 1960 (she had a
diploma in hotel and catering management) has been proven by science.

This is why I ignore ignorant faddy ideas - at least until they are
verified.

BTW - the fact that plastic boards are unhygenic seems obvious to me.
Their only pluses are kind to knives and can be semi-sterilised in the
dishwasher which is the only reason I don't like wood.

The solution to that is an end grain cutting board...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 05/03/2015 12:15, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 10:42, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Was the epoxy grout difficult to work with?

Not IME.

Do you have to be careful to clean it off the tile faces? Or can it be
polished off dried like regular grout?

I used it once a long time ago - I found it harder to work than regular
grout, and you had to take care not to let it set too much before
cleaning off the tiles - else it became a real pig to shift.

Waterproof powdered grout treated with lithofin grout protector lasts
quite well.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 10:42, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Was the epoxy grout difficult to work with?

Not IME.

Do you have to be careful to clean it off the tile faces? Or can it be
polished off dried like regular grout?

Yes, you need to clean it off the tile faces. Some filmy residue will
be left, which you can remove with a golden fleece,elbow grease and
water. Ceramic floor tiles are extremely hard and without using wet and
dry paper, I've never managed to scratch one with any hposehold cleaner.

In article , John
Rumm writes
On 04/03/2015 18:05, fred wrote:

I'm in a similar spot and am drifting away from wooden ones. I don't see
those made of little blocks glued together as very impressive so if I
went wood I'd probably want ones made of serious planks (100mm wide,
40mm deep and full length) with a complimentary machined edges to hold
everything together in the long term. Those specs make wood a very
expensive option and I just don't like it enough spend a lot of money on
them.

Those specs make it a very DIYable options though... especially if you
have or know someone with a planer/thicknesser.

It's very kind of you to offer John :-)

Bottom line is that I don't think I'd like the end result better than I
would a good quality laminate one so for simplicity I think I will stick
with that.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 05/03/15 13:08, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 10:42, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Was the epoxy grout difficult to work with?

Not IME.

Do you have to be careful to clean it off the tile faces? Or can it be
polished off dried like regular grout?

Yes, you need to clean it off the tile faces. Some filmy residue
will be left, which you can remove with a golden fleece,elbow grease

Doesn't it come with some beefy argonauts to help?

Seriously, *what* is a golden fleece? GINMF

and
water. Ceramic floor tiles are extremely hard and without using wet and
dry paper, I've never managed to scratch one with any hposehold cleaner.

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On 05/03/15 13:08, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/03/15 10:42, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Was the epoxy grout difficult to work with?

Not IME.

Do you have to be careful to clean it off the tile faces? Or can it be
polished off dried like regular grout?

Yes, you need to clean it off the tile faces. Some filmy residue
will be left, which you can remove with a golden fleece,elbow grease

Doesn't it come with some beefy argonauts to help?

Seriously, *what* is a golden fleece? GINMF

Add 'cleaning' to your search term , to avoid pubs and jason and the
agonauts references.

It's those yellow scouring cloth type things
--
Chris French

On 05/03/2015 00:11, michael adams wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message news:mVJJw.259846

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

That's exactly what EHO's were claiming in the early 90's
when successfully closing down butchers shops, craft cheese
makers who relied on wooden shelving and even the naval
tradition of stirring rum with an oar on Trafalgar Day.

Then a few years later after all the damage was done it was
found thet wood had antibacterial properties and was in fact
more hygenich than plastic. In short wood absorbs bacteria
by capillary action where they eventally die whereas
bacteria can thrive in microscopic cuts in plastic
boards.

quote

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden
cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics.
Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and
Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was
being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other
foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that
disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces
in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were
used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were
easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been
used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas
plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and
disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat
were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant
damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.


Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are found
alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently do not
multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by splitting or
gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one surface to
the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces after used
plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually,
more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood surface.

/quote

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/fa...ttingboard.htm


michael adams

...




Interesting. I prefer a light coloured formica so I can actually see
what needs wiping off. Wooden surfaces don't offer that, and nor do the
dark coloured immitation marble type tops. Wood may be technically
better in laboratory conditions but it tends to encourage sloppiness IME.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 05/03/15 08:21, fred wrote:
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:42:40 PM UTC, Capitol wrote:

Consider tiles on 1" WBP plywood. Totally heatproof, easy to clean, use
wood edging, varnished. Refinish wood after 20 years. Can be cracked if
you drop cast iron dishes on them, but easy to repair if you have spare
tiles. Cracked 1 tile in 40yrs.

Soooooooooooooooooooo 1960's


Ah - then it's due back...

Just waiting for orange and brown decor to resurface...

This is why fashion is ********. I think the real reason people sneer at
old stuff is that, if you see old stuff, it's, well, old.

Back in the day everyone was happy with it.

I never was, cleaning the grout is a complete pain in the arse.

On 05/03/15 18:03, stuart noble wrote:
On 05/03/2015 00:11, michael adams wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
news:mVJJw.259846

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

That's exactly what EHO's were claiming in the early 90's
when successfully closing down butchers shops, craft cheese
makers who relied on wooden shelving and even the naval
tradition of stirring rum with an oar on Trafalgar Day.

Then a few years later after all the damage was done it was
found thet wood had antibacterial properties and was in fact
more hygenich than plastic. In short wood absorbs bacteria
by capillary action where they eventally die whereas
bacteria can thrive in microscopic cuts in plastic
boards.

quote

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden
cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as
plastics.
Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and
Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was
being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other
foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that
disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces
in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were
used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were
easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been
used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas
plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and
disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat
were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant
damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.


Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are
found
alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently
do not
multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by
splitting or
gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one
surface to
the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces
after used
plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually,
more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a
used wood surface.

/quote

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/fa...ttingboard.htm



michael adams

...




Interesting. I prefer a light coloured formica so I can actually see
what needs wiping off. Wooden surfaces don't offer that, and nor do the
dark coloured immitation marble type tops. Wood may be technically
better in laboratory conditions but it tends to encourage sloppiness IME.

untreated wood washed down with mild bleach is peerless. Until its left wet



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

stuart noble wrote:
On 05/03/2015 00:11, michael adams wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
news:mVJJw.259846

Wooden tops are good looking but hopelessly unhygienic

That's exactly what EHO's were claiming in the early 90's
when successfully closing down butchers shops, craft cheese
makers who relied on wooden shelving and even the naval
tradition of stirring rum with an oar on Trafalgar Day.

Then a few years later after all the damage was done it was
found thet wood had antibacterial properties and was in fact
more hygenich than plastic. In short wood absorbs bacteria
by capillary action where they eventally die whereas
bacteria can thrive in microscopic cuts in plastic
boards.

quote

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden
cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as
plastics.
Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and
Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was
being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other
foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that
disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces
in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were
used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were
easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been
used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas
plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and
disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat
were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant
damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.


Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are
found
alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently
do not
multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by
splitting or
gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one
surface to
the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces
after used
plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually,
more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a
used wood surface.

/quote

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/fa...ttingboard.htm



michael adams

...




Interesting. I prefer a light coloured formica so I can actually see
what needs wiping off. Wooden surfaces don't offer that, and nor do the
dark coloured immitation marble type tops. Wood may be technically
better in laboratory conditions but it tends to encourage sloppiness IME.


IME all surfaces other than tiles and stainless will stain if coloured
spills are allowed to stay on them. I was surprised to experience this
with a sealed granite worktop, fortunately UV bleached out the colour.