We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to
put a blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon /
fluorescent (sp?) light would look best. Has anyone got any
recomendations? It is actually a little cubby hole for our cat to eat,
and in an ideal world I would love to find a neon cat shaped light.
Mad I know. Am I dreaming?

Daniel

Daniel wrote:

We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to
put a blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon /
fluorescent (sp?) light would look best. Has anyone got any
recomendations? It is actually a little cubby hole for our cat to eat,
and in an ideal world I would love to find a neon cat shaped light.
Mad I know. Am I dreaming?



You can get blue 'neon' type lamps made specailly, at a price. Try google.

I think blue is argon, or mercury vapour actualy, neon is mainly orange.

Otherwise blue pygmy bulbs are readily available.
Or are they called 'borgs' these days (Bulbs of Restricted Growth) :-)


Daniel

On 21 Nov 2003 07:09:50 -0800, (Daniel) wrote:

We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to
put a blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon /
fluorescent (sp?) light would look best. Has anyone got any
recomendations? It is actually a little cubby hole for our cat to eat,
and in an ideal world I would love to find a neon cat shaped light.
Mad I know. Am I dreaming?

Well you can just contact a signmaker and he will bend a glass tube
into the shape of a cat, fill it with neon (actually he won't - if you
want blue he will fill it with argon and add a microscopic amount of
mercury) and then seal it.

Adrian.

Adrian Sims wrote:

Well you can just contact a signmaker and he will bend a glass tube
into the shape of a cat, fill it with neon (actually he won't - if you
want blue he will fill it with argon and add a microscopic amount of
mercury) and then seal it.

What?? You'd allow mercury in your house?

:-)

--
Grunff

Daniel wrote:
We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to
put a blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon /
fluorescent (sp?) light would look best. Has anyone got any
recomendations? It is actually a little cubby hole for our cat to eat,
and in an ideal world I would love to find a neon cat shaped light.
Mad I know. Am I dreaming?

Get a few ultra-bright blue LEDs (Maplin etc). Will look lovely.

--
Grunff

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:40 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Adrian Sims wrote:

Well you can just contact a signmaker and he will bend a glass tube
into the shape of a cat, fill it with neon (actually he won't - if you
want blue he will fill it with argon and add a microscopic amount of
mercury) and then seal it.

What?? You'd allow mercury in your house?

I didn't say that! Sadly I think I was exposed to much more mercury in
the chemistry lab than I'd get in 1000 years from a neon sign...have
to wait to see if the dementia sets in early! :-)

A.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:24:32 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Daniel wrote:
We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to
put a blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon /
fluorescent (sp?) light would look best. Has anyone got any
recomendations? It is actually a little cubby hole for our cat to eat,
and in an ideal world I would love to find a neon cat shaped light.
Mad I know. Am I dreaming?

Get a few ultra-bright blue LEDs (Maplin etc). Will look lovely.

Do you mean the luxeon ones? If so just how bright are they? Are they
actually GBP12 per LED?!

A.

Adrian Sims wrote:

Do you mean the luxeon ones? If so just how bright are they? Are they
actually GBP12 per LED?!

I've not experienced the luxeon ones, but have some of Maplin's
Nichia ones (NR85G), £3 each and 3Cd output, which is very bright.

About 14 years ago when high brightness types were just coming
out I remember buying an 8Cd red led from Tandy for £15. And
that was when £15 could buy a house!

--
Grunff

(Adrian Sims) wrote in :


Get a few ultra-bright blue LEDs (Maplin etc). Will look lovely.

Do you mean the luxeon ones? If so just how bright are they? Are they
actually GBP12 per LED?!

A.

I got a red and a white LED keyring thing from the local quick and dirty
for 99p each. BLOODY bright

mike r

I didn't say that! Sadly I think I was exposed to much more mercury in
the chemistry lab than I'd get in 1000 years from a neon sign...have
to wait to see if the dementia sets in early! :-)

A.

I got my exposure in grammer school physics. polarity reversing switches
with pools of mercury as terminals; amalgamating ha'pennies to shillings
and our house keys.

Never did me any h

On 21 Nov 2003 07:09:50 -0800, (Daniel) wrote:

We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to
put a blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon /
fluorescent (sp?)

Depending on how much light you wan't would one of the cold cathode
tubes the twiterati are using to illuminate the inside of their
computers be adequate?

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:25:44 +0000, Grunff wrote:

About 14 years ago when high brightness types were just coming
out I remember buying an 8Cd red led from Tandy for £15. And
that was when £15 could buy a house!

Not long ago I saw a panel of HP power LEDs, and was very surprised at
the light being emitted. It really felt that you could warm your hands
if you got up close!

PoP

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:09:50 -0800, Daniel wrote:

We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to put a
blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon / fluorescent (sp?)
light would look best. Has anyone got any recomendations? It is actually a
little cubby hole for our cat to eat, and in an ideal world I would love
to find a neon cat shaped light. Mad I know. Am I dreaming?

Daniel

You can get blue neon lights, running on 12volts for the inside of
computers. i KNOW !!, its the latest craze amongst the overclockers.
You can also get them to fit on cars.
So a local computer fair or somewhere that does car parts.

Dave
--
And you were born knowing all about ms windows....??

Adrian Sims wrote:

Do you mean the luxeon ones? If so just how bright are they? Are they
actually GBP12 per LED?!

Luxeon Lumileds are astonishingly bright - to the extent that when
working on optics based with them I have to wear gas welding goggles to
stop hurting my eyes. They knock any other LED into a cocked hat for
intensity

And they are expensive.

Steve

Hi Daniel,

As other have pointed out, there is a trend of late (like to point out both
my PC's are very boring beige boxes before I continue!) for making the
inside of your PC look like the northern lights, which has lead to pretty
cheap components.

I would suggest you look at getting some Electro Luminescent (EL) cable,
that you can then shape like a cat and or any other domestic animal to your
hearts content. I think it can also be cut to required length.

You will need to get a 12v mains adapter (as the lights are designed for a
PC with 12v on tap), but I imagine the draw is pretty small and your average
maplin 12v plug brick job would do the trick. Possible source:

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/product.php?subcat=12

I can recommend the supplier in general, never bought any EL string from
them though, you will need a PSU and coloured string of your choice. I am
also told that www.ebuyer.com have very good prices on these things by a
friend that knows about such things, he says they also go self adhesive
stuff (!) but I have not looked at the site so I can't say for sure.

Question is, what will the cat think about all this?!

Paul.


"Daniel" wrote in message
om...
We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to
put a blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon /
fluorescent (sp?) light would look best. Has anyone got any
recomendations? It is actually a little cubby hole for our cat to eat,
and in an ideal world I would love to find a neon cat shaped light.
Mad I know. Am I dreaming?

Daniel

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:40 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Adrian Sims wrote:

Well you can just contact a signmaker and he will bend a glass tube
into the shape of a cat, fill it with neon (actually he won't - if you
want blue he will fill it with argon and add a microscopic amount of
mercury) and then seal it.

What?? You'd allow mercury in your house?


Do you have any "normal" fluorescent tubes in your house? Then you already
have plenty of mercury ;-o

Timbo

"Dave Stanton" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:09:50 -0800, Daniel wrote:

We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to put
a
blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon / fluorescent
(sp?)
light would look best. Has anyone got any recomendations? It is actually
a
little cubby hole for our cat to eat, and in an ideal world I would love
to find a neon cat shaped light. Mad I know. Am I dreaming?

Daniel

You can get blue neon lights, running on 12volts for the inside of
computers. i KNOW !!, its the latest craze amongst the overclockers.
You can also get them to fit on cars.
So a local computer fair or somewhere that does car parts.

Dave
--
And you were born knowing all about ms windows....??


I know I'm going to burn in hell for saying this, but,
PC-World stock them with all the connectors etc.

In article ,
Daniel wrote:
We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would really like to
put a blue light behind it. I am thinking some sort of neon /
fluorescent (sp?) light would look best. Has anyone got any
recomendations? It is actually a little cubby hole for our cat to eat,
and in an ideal world I would love to find a neon cat shaped light.
Mad I know. Am I dreaming?

A sign maker should be able to make a neon in any shape, but they require
a high voltage power pack so might not be suitable.

How about a rope light in the correct colour glued to the panel - these
can be bent to a certain degree. Maplins or disco equipment shops sell
them.

You could make something up out of LEDs, but these also need a
transformer, and of course blue LEDs are about the most expensive variety.

--
*Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Huge wrote:

Do you have any "normal" fluorescent tubes in your house? Then you already
have plenty of mercury ;-o


Or a medical thermometer.

I know! That was an ironic reference to the earlier fluoride
thread, gettit?

--
Grunff

You can get blue neon lights, running on 12volts for the inside of
computers. i KNOW !!, its the latest craze amongst the overclockers. You
can also get them to fit on cars. So a local computer fair or somewhere
that does car parts.

Dave

PC World, OH DEAR, no I don't expect they would have a clue. Try

www.overclockers.co.uk ( I think)

Dave

--
And you were born knowing all about ms windows....??

PC World, OH DEAR, no I don't expect they would have a clue. Try

www.overclockers.co.uk ( I think)

Dave

You can also try
www.coolcasemods.com

And very soon Micro Mart will be doing an article on this very subject.
You can Micro Mart from W H Smith.

Dave

--
And you were born knowing all about ms windows....??

In message , Huge
writes
"Tim S" writes:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:40 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Adrian Sims wrote:

Well you can just contact a signmaker and he will bend a glass tube
into the shape of a cat, fill it with neon (actually he won't - if you
want blue he will fill it with argon and add a microscopic amount of
mercury) and then seal it.

What?? You'd allow mercury in your house?


Do you have any "normal" fluorescent tubes in your house? Then you already
have plenty of mercury ;-o

Or a medical thermometer.

Or amalgam fillings
--
geoff

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...

You could make something up out of LEDs, but these also need a
transformer, and of course blue LEDs are about the most expensive variety.


And they are common as muck these days. Blue LEDs were cool, until folk
started putting them on cars!

The rope stuff linked by Paul is probably your best bet. I've not seen it on
Fiestas or Civics yet, so it's therefore still cool.

F./

In message ,
Dave Stanton wrote:


PC World, OH DEAR, no I don't expect they would have a clue. Try

www.overclockers.co.uk ( I think)

Dave

You can also try
www.coolcasemods.com

And very soon Micro Mart will be doing an article on this very subject.
You can Micro Mart from W H Smith.


Maplins do 'em too. Try pages 297 to 299 in the paper catalogue, or
order codes such as A93AH, A89AK, A90AK online. A64AL is quite groovy.
Of course, these are all designed to run from a PC powersupply, probably
12V or maybe 5V.

Also available in the hobbies section p612 N50AN includes a 12V supply.
Ten quid each for a 30cm tube... almost worth dusting off the blow-torch
and having a go at bending the tube yourself :-)

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Don't fight technology, live with it: http://www.livtech.co.uk/
.... I would if I could but I can't but I might if I find I can later.

Firstly, thank you for all the ideas. And the general lack of sarcasm
which was very surprising!


I would suggest you look at getting some Electro Luminescent (EL) cable,
that you can then shape like a cat and or any other domestic animal to your
hearts content. I think it can also be cut to required length.

I looked at this - my worry is that it would not give out enough
light. In order for it shine through the glass block wall, you need a
fair amount of light.

On reflection, I feel the cat idea was a pretty useless one (!) and am
now tempted by the ultra-bright led lights recomended (luxeon ones).

In simple terms how would I go about hooking these up to mains
electricity? I will be powering them off mains, not the lighting
circuit.

Do I need a professional?

Daniel

In article ,
Daniel wrote:
On reflection, I feel the cat idea was a pretty useless one (!) and am
now tempted by the ultra-bright led lights recomended (luxeon ones).

In simple terms how would I go about hooking these up to mains
electricity? I will be powering them off mains, not the lighting
circuit.


LEDs work off DC, so need a DC supply usually provided by a transformer
and rectifier. They are current rather than voltage sensitive, so a
suitable series resistor is needed according to the voltage driving them.
For example an LED driven at 10 mA which is common for 'indicator' types
would need a 1000 ohm resistor when run off 12 volts. Brighter LEDs will
need more current and therefore a smaller value resistor at the same
voltage. Obviously, if you're using a lot of these, the higher the voltage
the smaller and cheaper the power supply as the current is less, so 50
volts might be the best - but 50 volt wall warts etc aren't common.

Maplin do an 0.8A 12 volt unregulated wall wart for 9.99. This would drive
about 30 reasonably bright LEDs at around 25mA each. Would 30 be enough?

It would, of course, be pretty easy to make a low voltage PS of near any
current using bits from Maplin or similar. It all really depends on how
much work you want to do, and your competence at DIY electronics.

It is possible to drive LEDs directly off the mains, but making such an
arrangement safe for this application would, I'd say, be too complicated.

Ebay can be a good source of cheap LEDs. Look under Electronic Components.

--
*Acupuncture is a jab well done.*

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article , Dave Plowman
writes
In article ,
Daniel wrote:
On reflection, I feel the cat idea was a pretty useless one (!) and am
now tempted by the ultra-bright led lights recomended (luxeon ones).

In simple terms how would I go about hooking these up to mains
electricity? I will be powering them off mains, not the lighting
circuit.


LEDs work off DC, so need a DC supply usually provided by a transformer
and rectifier. They are current rather than voltage sensitive, so a
suitable series resistor is needed according to the voltage driving them.
For example an LED driven at 10 mA which is common for 'indicator' types
would need a 1000 ohm resistor when run off 12 volts. Brighter LEDs will
need more current and therefore a smaller value resistor at the same
voltage. Obviously, if you're using a lot of these, the higher the voltage
the smaller and cheaper the power supply as the current is less, so 50
volts might be the best - but 50 volt wall warts etc aren't common.

Maplin do an 0.8A 12 volt unregulated wall wart for 9.99. This would drive
about 30 reasonably bright LEDs at around 25mA each. Would 30 be enough?

It would, of course, be pretty easy to make a low voltage PS of near any
current using bits from Maplin or similar. It all really depends on how
much work you want to do, and your competence at DIY electronics.

It is possible to drive LEDs directly off the mains, but making such an
arrangement safe for this application would, I'd say, be too complicated.

Ebay can be a good source of cheap LEDs. Look under Electronic Components.

Umm. The above is partly true for standard LEDs, except that the forward
voltage drop of the LED is fixed, so using a higher voltage supply does
not help, unless you start series connecting the LEDs. Also for blue
leds the forward voltage drop is quite high (about 4 volts) which you
need to remember when working out the resistor value.

The Luxeon ones previously mentioned are very picky about supply. You
need a current limited supply feeding 300mA to each LED. You also need
to provide cooling for the LED devices or the lifespan is greatly
reduced. I think you would need to get an expert involved if you wanted
to do it, it's not rocket science, but you do need a bit of electronic
design knowledge.
--
Tim Mitchell

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hello The

We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would
really like to put a blue light behind it. I am thinking
some sort of neon / fluorescent (sp?) light would look

TNP| I think blue is argon, or mercury vapour actualy, neon is
TNP| mainly orange.

This was explained recently on a kiddies program in a way that even I
kinda got the idea - it /is/ Neon. What happens is that Neon also
emits shedloads of ultra violet light. To get different colours, the
inside of the tube is coated with pigments that react in different
colours when energised by ultraviolet.

So the neon creates ultraviolet.
The UV transfers energy to the coating.
Coating glows and emits colour of choice.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

In article , Simon Avery
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hello The

We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would
really like to put a blue light behind it. I am thinking
some sort of neon / fluorescent (sp?) light would look

TNP| I think blue is argon, or mercury vapour actualy, neon is
TNP| mainly orange.

This was explained recently on a kiddies program in a way that even I
kinda got the idea - it /is/ Neon. What happens is that Neon also
emits shedloads of ultra violet light. To get different colours, the
inside of the tube is coated with pigments that react in different
colours when energised by ultraviolet.

So the neon creates ultraviolet.
The UV transfers energy to the coating.
Coating glows and emits colour of choice.

I don't think that's true about neon gas, neon just emits red.

If they want other colours they use [some other gas - mercury vapour?]
in the tube to make the uv and then add a fluorescent coating as
described.

Normal white fluorescent tubes work that way as well.
--
Tim Mitchell

Simon Avery wrote:

Hi Simon,

TNP| I think blue is argon, or mercury vapour actualy, neon is
TNP| mainly orange.


This was explained recently on a kiddies program in a way that even I
kinda got the idea - it /is/ Neon. What happens is that Neon also
emits shedloads of ultra violet light. To get different colours, the
inside of the tube is coated with pigments that react in different
colours when energised by ultraviolet.

So the neon creates ultraviolet.
The UV transfers energy to the coating.
Coating glows and emits colour of choice.

There are actually two types of blue tubes, those which have a
phosphor coating, and those which don't.

Tubes with a phosphor coating work in almost the way you
describe (as do common-or-garden fluorescents). I say almost
because while the fill is almost entirely neon, neon doesn't
emit much UV at all, it's the trace mercury content which does that.

These tubes can be identified by the fact that they are opaque -
due to the phosphor coating.

The second type are clear, because they're just glass tubes with
argon in them. These emit blue light which is emitted directly
by the argon fill, with no phosphor being involved.

--
Grunff

In article ,
Tim Mitchell writes:
So the neon creates ultraviolet.
The UV transfers energy to the coating.
Coating glows and emits colour of choice.

Mixed with the directly visible neon emission.

I don't think that's true about neon gas, neon just emits red.

It's got lots of lines, and certainly into the UV. It is used
for exciting UV phosphors, although the UV won't get through
ordinary glass construction neon lamps.

If they want other colours they use [some other gas - mercury vapour?]
in the tube to make the uv and then add a fluorescent coating as
described.

Mercury vapour has the problem that the vapour pressure varies
enormously with temperature, affecting both the light output and
the electrical characteristics. This isn't much use in cold-cathode
signage tubes which need to work well when cold and the mercury
vapour pressure is too low, or if increased for cold working,
it's too high if the tube warms up.

Normal white fluorescent tubes work that way as well.

Older tubes are designed to work at 25C ambient with bulb wall at
40C and get dimmer if you move away from this in either direction.
(They can be made to order for different operating temperatures.)
Newer tubes, particularly compact fluorescents, contain an
amalgam which absorbs and releases mercury depending on its
temperature and this stablises the mercury vapour pressure inside
the tube for varying lamp temperatures, at least over a wider
range than for older fluorescent tubes. There is a delay whilst
the amalgam pellet adjusts to varying temperatures (which is why
compact fluorescents take a minute or so to reach full output).

This is fine for lamps which are on continuously, but not for
neon signage which often isn't, and has to run at exposed outdoor
temperatures.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Simon Avery wrote:

This was explained recently on a kiddies program in a way that even I
kinda got the idea - it /is/ Neon. What happens is that Neon also
emits shedloads of ultra violet light. To get different colours, the
inside of the tube is coated with pigments that react in different
colours when energised by ultraviolet.

So the neon creates ultraviolet.
The UV transfers energy to the coating.
Coating glows and emits colour of choice.

But neon tubes are clear glass? Sure you're not confusing them with
fluorescent tubes?

--
*I want it all and I want it delivered

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In message ,
Grunff wrote:


The second type are clear, because they're just glass tubes with
argon in them. These emit blue light which is emitted directly
by the argon fill, with no phosphor being involved.


That's interesting, because at Magna we had bottles of Argon as used by
signage designers, mounted in a case, with 22kV (or something) clunked
onto each end when people walked past.

The "sparks" inside were definitely mauvey - I'd say more towards the
orange than the blue :-)

Hmmm...

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Don't fight technology, live with it: http://www.livtech.co.uk/
.... Happiness is a conscious choice, not an automatic response.

Simon Avery wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hello The


We have a glass block wall in our kitchen, and would
really like to put a blue light behind it. I am thinking
some sort of neon / fluorescent (sp?) light would look


TNP| I think blue is argon, or mercury vapour actualy, neon is
TNP| mainly orange.


This was explained recently on a kiddies program in a way that even I
kinda got the idea - it /is/ Neon. What happens is that Neon also
emits shedloads of ultra violet light. To get different colours, the
inside of the tube is coated with pigments that react in different
colours when energised by ultraviolet.

So the neon creates ultraviolet.
The UV transfers energy to the coating.
Coating glows and emits colour of choice.



I think not actually. In the USA any fluorescent light is called a
'neon' light, and what you have descrbed is what we call fluorescent
lights. They are normally filled with mercuty vapiour and an inert
halodegn as well - I think argon normally. The tubes are caietd with
phosphors to re-emit UV in the visible spectrum.

Traditionally what WE call a 'neon light' is a pure discharge tube - not
a coated one - of which the original ones were red/orange and contained
neon. The sort used to make advertising signs. I don't know what gasess
are in the red, blue green and yellow ones, but I am pretty sure it
ain't neon.

Grunff wrote:

Simon Avery wrote:

Hi Simon,

TNP| I think blue is argon, or mercury vapour actualy, neon is
TNP| mainly orange.



This was explained recently on a kiddies program in a way that even I
kinda got the idea - it /is/ Neon. What happens is that Neon also
emits shedloads of ultra violet light. To get different colours, the
inside of the tube is coated with pigments that react in different
colours when energised by ultraviolet.

So the neon creates ultraviolet. The UV transfers energy to the coating.
Coating glows and emits colour of choice.


There are actually two types of blue tubes, those which have a phosphor
coating, and those which don't.

Tubes with a phosphor coating work in almost the way you describe (as do
common-or-garden fluorescents). I say almost because while the fill is
almost entirely neon, neon doesn't emit much UV at all, it's the trace
mercury content which does that.

These tubes can be identified by the fact that they are opaque - due to
the phosphor coating.

The second type are clear, because they're just glass tubes with argon
in them. These emit blue light which is emitted directly by the argon
fill, with no phosphor being involved.


Thanks. I knew it wsn't neon, but for the life of me...nonetheless all
such (direct emitting) tubes in the UK are comonly called 'neon'
lights. As opposed to 'fluoreescent lights', which of course in the USA
are called 'neon lights'

Martin Angove wrote:

In message ,
Grunff wrote:



The second type are clear, because they're just glass tubes with
argon in them. These emit blue light which is emitted directly
by the argon fill, with no phosphor being involved.



That's interesting, because at Magna we had bottles of Argon as used by
signage designers, mounted in a case, with 22kV (or something) clunked
onto each end when people walked past.

The "sparks" inside were definitely mauvey - I'd say more towards the
orange than the blue :-)



Exacrly. Each gas has a characteristic spectrum, as described by
Fraunhofer: The color ypu preceive from a direct gas dicsharge lamp
depends on where te spectral lines are and how string they are. Neon is
predomniantly a red/orange emitter, with negligible UV, other inert
gases are different. By combining them you can get a variety of colors.
I suspect this is in fact what sign makers do.


Hmmm...

Hwyl!

M.