On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:40:20 -0000, Matty F wrote:

On Friday, December 13, 2013 11:23:19 AM UTC+13, Cursitor Doom wrote:
There's a new system coming out for early detection of failing lamps for
seamless replacement by use of the 'distress signals' they emit in the RF
spectrum shortly before failure. These signals are visible on handheld
spectrum analyers which can be driven around in vans checking the
'health' of such lamps; the antennas enable the distress signals to be
detected from further away, thereby shortening the route taken.

Here in NZ we need a lot of light houses, some on small offshore islands. Even when they became automated, they still needed their lights changed and fuel supplies.
So an ingenious person designed solar powered lighthouses, and that have five lights on a rotating mechanism. When a light fails, it automatically changes to a new bulb. So every few years somebody puts some new bulbs in place. But there's no urgency to do that.
Why don't they have street lights that change their own bulbs? OK, someone will steal them.

Lighthouses are way more important than streetlamps. I would imagine that system costs a lot.

--
Sensitivity - The politically correct term for political correctness.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:43:48 -0000, mogga wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:23:19 +0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:31:35 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

On 12/12/2013 19:12, mogga wrote:
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? ...

Mind control - time for the tin foil hat.

Colin Bignell

There's a new system coming out for early detection of failing lamps for
seamless replacement by use of the 'distress signals' they emit in the RF
spectrum shortly before failure. These signals are visible on handheld
spectrum analyers which can be driven around in vans checking the
'health' of such lamps; the antennas enable the distress signals to be
detected from further away, thereby shortening the route taken.


And that costs more than waiting for people to complain a light is
out?
(Which in itself saves energy whilst lamps aren't coming on)

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/pla...s/basestations
Are they the equivalent of picocells or microcells?
do they require separate planning?

We need some here. Reception is poor and 3G is only possible 50% of the time and at a slow speed.

--
Paddy calls Easyjet to book a flight.
The operator asks "How many people are flying with you?"
Paddy replies "I don't know! Its your flipping plane!"

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 08:24:55 -0000, wrote:

mogga scribbled...


On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:31:35 +0000, Nightjar
wrote:

On 12/12/2013 19:12, mogga wrote:
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? ...

Mind control - time for the tin foil hat.

Colin Bignell

Yes I suspected that'd be an answer from someone!

They've done them over in New Moston already - and there is some radio
interference on our street on the bit near there. Having read today
what frequency these radio things work at then it might be them
causing problems with people's car alarm fob things. Although worrying
as there aren't lights desperately close to the affected part of the
road.
Someone has been in touch with Ofcom already about this interference
and we're waiting to see what they find.


You know the tories have been selling off frequencies to mobile
companies some of which are buggering up everything close by?

eg
http://amdram.co.uk/articles/radio-m...ency-sell-off/

The frequencies WiFi uses are a mess. all sorts of things interfere with them.

--
A hard-on doesn't count as personal growth.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:42:53 -0000, Tim Watts wrote:

On Friday 13 December 2013 09:35 Huge wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 2013-12-12, mogga wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 21:41:10 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:


They are remote controlled and dim-able, we've got them too.


Let the hacking being!

Is that possible?

SCADA systems are usually poorly protected.


And if "they" cannot apply solid network security to pumping stations and
the like, I very much doubt if anyone has bothered much about some street
lamps!

One of the reasons I do not want a smartmeter for electricity...

You don't want to be able to hack your own meter?

--
Her voice had that tense grating quality, like a first-generation thermal paper fax machine that needed a band tightened.

On 2013-12-12, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , mogga
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:57:45 -0000, Sam Plusnet wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/12/2013 19:12, mogga wrote:
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? ...

Mind control - time for the tin foil hat.

Sensors.

When a micro-chipped dog gets too close, the base of the lamp post
generates a static charge.

That'd be interesting to see!

What, a static charge in the dog? Extra! Several MegaVolts I hope.

The dog gets charged when it discharges.

On Friday 13 December 2013 16:49 Uncle Peter wrote in uk.d-i-y:

You don't want to be able to hack your own meter?

I suspect the only options available are "disconnect supply" and "reconnect
supply" and I can do that with a big red switch.


I very much doubt there is a "deduct X units from the reading" API command.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:06:52 -0000, Tim Watts wrote:

On Friday 13 December 2013 16:49 Uncle Peter wrote in uk.d-i-y:

You don't want to be able to hack your own meter?

I suspect the only options available are "disconnect supply" and "reconnect
supply" and I can do that with a big red switch.

I very much doubt there is a "deduct X units from the reading" API command.

Surely you could change the pence per unit?

--
Does a pope **** in the woods? And if a pope ****s in the woods and no-one is around, does he pebbledash?

On Friday 13 December 2013 17:13 Uncle Peter wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Surely you could change the pence per unit?

Because you're such a trolling nobber, I'll say this once for the avoidance
of doubt:

Meters don't know the price per unit.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:12:58 +0000, mogga
wrote:

We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? They look like they have a light detetctor same as the
old ones too.

They've recently replaced all the lights here in Epsom similarly.
The're radio controlled, and report back provided they haven't failed.
They're also dimmed at night to save money. I think there are a few
master lights which do the two-way communication, and they each
control several slave lights.
--
Dave W

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:29:13 -0000, Tim Watts wrote:

On Friday 13 December 2013 17:13 Uncle Peter wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Surely you could change the pence per unit?

Because you're such a trolling nobber, I'll say this once for the avoidance
of doubt:

Correction, I'm someone who has opinions that differ from most of the group.

Meters don't know the price per unit.

Oh. Well I don't have one so I wouldn't know. Funny thing is it's only a few years old as I went onto a double tariff so needed it changing. Must have been just before smart meters came out, or are not all energy companies using them? They give me a discount to read it myself.

I guess what you need to do is to stop the meter sending a signal and put your own signal in to tell them you've used a smaller amount.

--
Dancing cheektocheek is really a form of floor play.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:55:51 +0000
Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-12-12, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , mogga
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:57:45 -0000, Sam Plusnet
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/12/2013 19:12, mogga wrote:
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they
have little antennas on the top.

What is it for? ...

Mind control - time for the tin foil hat.

Sensors.

When a micro-chipped dog gets too close, the base of the lamp
post generates a static charge.

That'd be interesting to see!

What, a static charge in the dog? Extra! Several MegaVolts I hope.

The dog gets charged when it discharges.

We used to have a dog which would charge itself up on the carpet, and
then touch its nose to the back of one of our legs. The resulting human
response was enjoyed by the dog. Who says they don't have emotions?

--
Davey.

In article ,
says...

On 2013-12-12, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , mogga
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:57:45 -0000, Sam Plusnet wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/12/2013 19:12, mogga wrote:
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? ...

Mind control - time for the tin foil hat.

Sensors.

When a micro-chipped dog gets too close, the base of the lamp post
generates a static charge.

That'd be interesting to see!

What, a static charge in the dog? Extra! Several MegaVolts I hope.

The dog gets charged when it discharges.

And then goes charging off.

--
Sam

mogga scribbled...


On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 08:39:29 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:



I thought they were RFI tag readers so they can track the compulsory ID
cards coming soon.

ID cards? Old technology. We'll all have compulsory RFID implants.


Enough to make you paranoid..

http://www.oldham.gov.uk/downloads/f...u siness_case

section three is all blanked out!
(remote monitoring and switching)



This company may be running things
http://www.telensa.com/

On 13/12/2013 16:42, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 13 December 2013 09:35 Huge wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 2013-12-12, mogga wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 21:41:10 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:


They are remote controlled and dim-able, we've got them too.


Let the hacking being!

Is that possible?

SCADA systems are usually poorly protected.


And if "they" cannot apply solid network security to pumping stations and
the like, I very much doubt if anyone has bothered much about some street
lamps!

One of the reasons I do not want a smartmeter for electricity...


Smart meters don't use the internet, they use SMS.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:29:13 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Friday 13 December 2013 17:13 Uncle Peter wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Surely you could change the pence per unit?

Because you're such a trolling nobber, I'll say this once for the avoidance
of doubt:

Meters don't know the price per unit.


Perhaps he's still putting shillings in his.


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:26:37 -0000, Graham. wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:29:13 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Friday 13 December 2013 17:13 Uncle Peter wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Surely you could change the pence per unit?

Because you're such a trolling nobber, I'll say this once for the avoidance
of doubt:

Meters don't know the price per unit.


Perhaps he's still putting shillings in his.

I'm not THAT old. They were 50ps.

--
If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed. -- Voltaire

On Friday 13 December 2013 23:10 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 13/12/2013 16:42, Tim Watts wrote:

One of the reasons I do not want a smartmeter for electricity...


Smart meters don't use the internet, they use SMS.

Who said anything about "the Internet".

They can also use Zigbee and other short haul radio technologies.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

In article , mogga
scribeth thus
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? They look like they have a light detetctor same as the
old ones too.


Here yer go, a new street light system using the olde 868 MHz channels
for lighting remote control!...


http://www.telensa.com/


http://www.telensa.com/systems-produ...s-and-modules/
--
Tony Sayer

In article , mogga
scribeth thus
On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:31:35 +0000, Nightjar
wrote:

On 12/12/2013 19:12, mogga wrote:
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? ...

Mind control - time for the tin foil hat.

Colin Bignell

Yes I suspected that'd be an answer from someone!

They've done them over in New Moston already - and there is some radio
interference on our street on the bit near there. Having read today
what frequency these radio things work at then it might be them
causing problems with people's car alarm fob things. Although worrying
as there aren't lights desperately close to the affected part of the
road.
Someone has been in touch with Ofcom already about this interference
and we're waiting to see what they find.

As alluded to elsewhere they use the 868 MHz band and very narrowband
tech and they won't be on all the time just now and again like most all
other 868 MHz devices.

Such licence exempt devices have to accommodate the possibility of
interference...

Ofcom let the use of power line adapters happen for wi-fi use so I
rather doubt they'd be interested in this problem if indeed there is one
...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , mogga
scribeth thus
On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 10:20:54 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

In article , mogga
writes

From where?

Dunno. Just says "centrally controlled"

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/45...amps_trial_for
_Wirral_gets_the_green_light/?

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/92...or_computer_co
ntrolled_street_lamps/

I've tried and failed to find a link on Wirral Council's website. I do
remember seeing one at the time and have contacted them to see if they
can come up with it.

The trial wasn't entirely successful, I think, as a lot of the new
control gear seemed to fail prematurely.

Ta chuck!
Have a friend who reckons if they're centrally controlled then it'll
need an ofcom licence...

Nope .. they use a licence exempt frequency just like your wi-fi and
car keyfob wireless doorbell and thermostat...etc ..Etc..
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:44:30 -0000, "Uncle Peter" wrote:



No it does actually say it on one of the links - perhaps the Wirral
one

Night inspection of lights controlled by the central management system
would no longer be required, as faulty lights would be reported by the
computer.
http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/45...mps_trial_for/

Why not wait for complaints? I emailed my council when the light here went out, they replaced the bulb in 2 days.


Indeed. This is how I've always done it. Make their life easy by
including the post number when you let them know too.
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:41:30 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Friday 13 December 2013 11:37 mogga wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:17:23 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well, could someone explain what these look like?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25345470@N02/11351514855/

(Brian's blind BTW)


Ah
I had looked for a photo on t'internet but couldn't find one so a
photo was the easiest option. Yes I know there's probably loads but I
didn't find one.

It looks like a little ( 10cm ) WIFI antenna - short, stubby and plastic
looking, sticking up vertically from the very top of the lamp casing.

Yeah I guess it does look a bit like the aerial off the router.
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:50:38 +0000, Dave W
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:12:58 +0000, mogga
wrote:

We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? They look like they have a light detetctor same as the
old ones too.

They've recently replaced all the lights here in Epsom similarly.
The're radio controlled, and report back provided they haven't failed.
They're also dimmed at night to save money. I think there are a few
master lights which do the two-way communication, and they each
control several slave lights.


Someone asked the workmen and they reckon these lights aren't
dimmable.
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:11:30 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , mogga
scribeth thus
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? They look like they have a light detetctor same as the
old ones too.


Here yer go, a new street light system using the olde 868 MHz channels
for lighting remote control!...


http://www.telensa.com/


http://www.telensa.com/systems-produ...s-and-modules/


I have asked the council for info on the RF they'll be using.
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

tony sayer wrote in :

http://www.telensa.com/systems-produ...s-and-modules/

Round our way we have got lights with a magic eye on the top that can see
when it is getting dark and it switches the lamp on - then in the morning
it sees that the sky is getting light and turns it off. I don't think the
idea has much of a future though - it is too simple.

--

DerbyBorn

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:38:27 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

tony sayer wrote in :

http://www.telensa.com/systems-produ...s-and-modules/

Round our way we have got lights with a magic eye on the top that can see
when it is getting dark and it switches the lamp on - then in the morning
it sees that the sky is getting light and turns it off. I don't think the
idea has much of a future though - it is too simple.



Assuming that all these lamps being put in are brand new and shiny
then how long are they expected to last? How long will the bulbs last?
All sounds like a PFI delight for someone to sell something that no
one needs.


From the telensa page:

identify and understand lamp failures immediately
reduce night maintenance inspections
eliminate day burners
improve public service
reduce repair times
extend range of information available e.g. to include mains supply
performance
create alerts for performance outside stated limit
measure energy usage for billing purposes and confirm energy
savings
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:31:43 -0000, mogga wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:44:30 -0000, "Uncle Peter" wrote:



No it does actually say it on one of the links - perhaps the Wirral
one

Night inspection of lights controlled by the central management system
would no longer be required, as faulty lights would be reported by the
computer.
http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/45...mps_trial_for/

Why not wait for complaints? I emailed my council when the light here went out, they replaced the bulb in 2 days.


Indeed. This is how I've always done it. Make their life easy by
including the post number when you let them know too.

Didn't think of that, didn't know they were that organised. I just said the one right outside my house and gave them my address.

--
How to start a fight, number 46:
Wait till a bunch of girls walk past a phone box.
Phone the phone box.
When one answers, ask to speak to the ugliest one they've got.

mogga wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:44:30 -0000, "Uncle Peter" wrote:

Why not wait for complaints? I emailed my council when the light here went out, they replaced the bulb in 2 days.

Indeed. This is how I've always done it. Make their life easy by
including the post number when you let them know too.

In our area you go on line and get a street map with every lamp
post shown, you just need to click on the right one. They seem to
respond pretty efficiently too.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:21:57 -0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:

mogga wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:44:30 -0000, "Uncle Peter" wrote:

Why not wait for complaints? I emailed my council when the light here went out, they replaced the bulb in 2 days.

Indeed. This is how I've always done it. Make their life easy by
including the post number when you let them know too.

In our area you go on line and get a street map with every lamp
post shown, you just need to click on the right one. They seem to
respond pretty efficiently too.

I think streetlights are a waste of money. My car has headlights.

--
Her face was a perfect oval, like a circle that had its two other sides gently compressed by a Thigh Master.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:12:58 +0000, mogga
wrote:

We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? They look like they have a light detetctor same as the
old ones too.

Descriptions of a system currently being installed in Leicester which
also explains the logic behind the changeover programme:
http://news.leicester.gov.uk/newsArc...l.aspx?Id=2147

http://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-cou...energy-saving/

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , mogga
escribió:

We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for?

It's so they can be switched on and off remotely.

and report back to base when they are "broken". Apparently, it costs less
to pay extra for all the electronics in the lamps than send a man around
once week to check. (Except the checking probably got "cut")

they communicate using a Zigbee mesh network, if you wanna look that up

tim

"mogga" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:11:30 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , mogga
scribeth thus
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? They look like they have a light detetctor same as the
old ones too.


Here yer go, a new street light system using the olde 868 MHz channels
for lighting remote control!...


http://www.telensa.com/


http://www.telensa.com/systems-produ...s-and-modules/


I have asked the council for info on the RF they'll be using.

You might as well as your councilor what RF his TV remote uses

He won't have any more knowledge and the answer will be just as useless to
you (cos the standard used is decided by the system manufacturer, not the
council)

tim

"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
tony sayer wrote in
:

http://www.telensa.com/systems-produ...s-and-modules/

Round our way we have got lights with a magic eye on the top that can see
when it is getting dark and it switches the lamp on - then in the morning
it sees that the sky is getting light and turns it off. I don't think the
idea has much of a future though - it is too simple.

except that it fails "on" on very cloudy days

tim

In article 6,
DerbyBorn scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote in :

http://www.telensa.com/systems-produ...s-and-modules/

Round our way we have got lights with a magic eye on the top that can see
when it is getting dark and it switches the lamp on - then in the morning
it sees that the sky is getting light and turns it off. I don't think the
idea has much of a future though - it is too simple.


Well thats been the way of it for donkeys years, but the idea is now to
make then controllable switching them and dimming them etc...

--
Tony Sayer

In article , mogga
scribeth thus
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:11:30 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , mogga
scribeth thus
We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? They look like they have a light detetctor same as the
old ones too.


Here yer go, a new street light system using the olde 868 MHz channels
for lighting remote control!...


http://www.telensa.com/


http://www.telensa.com/systems-produ...s-and-modules/


I have asked the council for info on the RF they'll be using.

I rather doubt they'd know the company above have done at lot of work on
the system they sell that uses licence exempt frequencies so in many
ways makes it all simpler to implement, and won't use that much RF
"time" and bandwidth..

Course everyone will now blame them for everything that ails their
modern connected world;(..
--
Tony Sayer

From the telensa page:

extend range of information available e.g. to include mains supply
performance
create alerts for performance outside stated limit

ahha, so they can detect people who have wired their pot shed up to the lamp
post then.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:24:17 +0000, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:12:58 +0000, mogga
wrote:

We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for? They look like they have a light detetctor same as the
old ones too.

Descriptions of a system currently being installed in Leicester which
also explains the logic behind the changeover programme:
http://news.leicester.gov.uk/newsArc...l.aspx?Id=2147

http://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-cou...energy-saving/

Interesting stats:
The programme will cost of £13.8million and is due to be completed by
February 2016. Once complete, the new LED lamps will help the council
reduce the energy cost of the city's street lighting by at least 57
per cent, and help cut carbon emissions by over 5,300 tons each year.

Street lighting currently costs the city council £2million each year.
Based on estimated savings of about £1.2million per year, the street
lamp replacement project is expected to pay for itself in just over
ten years.


--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:32:33 +0100, "tim......"
wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , mogga
escribió:

We're getting some new street lights and have noticed they have little
antennas on the top.

What is it for?

It's so they can be switched on and off remotely.

and report back to base when they are "broken". Apparently, it costs less
to pay extra for all the electronics in the lamps than send a man around
once week to check. (Except the checking probably got "cut")

they communicate using a Zigbee mesh network, if you wanna look that up

tim



Thanks!


--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On 14/12/2013 15:06, mogga wrote:

Street lighting currently costs the city council £2million each year.
Based on estimated savings of about £1.2million per year, the street
lamp replacement project is expected to pay for itself in just over
ten years.


In five years, there will be another new way to save money, so these
will all have to be ripped out and replaced Or they'll discover that the
LED lamps make people blind, or....

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 14/12/2013 08:25, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 13 December 2013 23:10 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 13/12/2013 16:42, Tim Watts wrote:

One of the reasons I do not want a smartmeter for electricity...


Smart meters don't use the internet, they use SMS.

Who said anything about "the Internet".

They can also use Zigbee and other short haul radio technologies.


They can use wet string but they don't.