A small section of a recently fitted and quite low down suspended ceiling
"fell down" today in a secondary schools corridor.

The council got an a independant guy out to check that there were enough
hangers to support the ceiling and make sure the builders had not bodged the
job. Well the hangers were NOT at the recommended placings (ie not at 1200mm
but at 1900mm). Not that that made the ceiling fall down according to the
expert[1].

Now here is the daft risk assessment. They demanded an electrician on site
to turn the corridor lighting MCB off (and stay on site until it was time to
turn it back on) so that the this expert could remove some ceiling tiles to
have a look above the ceilings in rest of the corridor that had not "fallen
down". FFS you could not make it up.

And if that is not bad enough the primary school I also worked at sent
permission letters back with the kids tht needed signing because the fire
brigade were going to do a display for the school and the fire engines have
CCTV. No sig and the kid cannot watch the display.

[1] His expert advice was "some little ****er has jumped up and pulled it
down"

--
Adam

On Friday 06 December 2013 19:47 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

A small section of a recently fitted and quite low down suspended ceiling
"fell down" today in a secondary schools corridor.

The council got an a independant guy out to check that there were enough
hangers to support the ceiling and make sure the builders had not bodged
the job. Well the hangers were NOT at the recommended placings (ie not at
1200mm but at 1900mm). Not that that made the ceiling fall down according
to the expert[1].

Now here is the daft risk assessment. They demanded an electrician on site
to turn the corridor lighting MCB off (and stay on site until it was time
to turn it back on) so that the this expert could remove some ceiling
tiles to have a look above the ceilings in rest of the corridor that had
not "fallen down". FFS you could not make it up.

That might make some sense if the lumineres were of the type that sit in the
grid frame in place of a tile or mounted in a tile cutout - I could imagine
collapsed ceilings maybe breaking the flex out of the fitting and dangling
around live.

But I assume this did not have that type of lighting.

As for MCB off to lift a tile - FFS! I've had my head up in enough ceilings
at work (looking for network cables usually) and I'd be hard pressed to see
how you could fry yourself.


And if that is not bad enough the primary school I also worked at sent
permission letters back with the kids tht needed signing because the fire
brigade were going to do a display for the school and the fire engines
have CCTV. No sig and the kid cannot watch the display.

That I can assure you is the school being a bunch of numpties. We had the
full monty last week - ambulance, engine and police car and no slip. Last
slip I had was to do with an actual excursion to Hastings.

[1] His expert advice was "some little ****er has jumped up and pulled it
down"

Probably

When I was 10 at school, we had the roof insulator firm in. Big (8") flexi
pipe across the corridor blowing some sort of fibre with a static charge
applied to make it cling. Right over out heads.

The only warning we got was "don;t trip over the pipe" and "don't touch that
wire, it'll give you a belt" (it did!).

Funny thing was, the workmen buggered off for tea, our teacher said he had
to get something from the other building and we were to sit still unattended
(hardly ever happened).

Anyway, we were yabbering away and punching each other and stuff, then
suddenly "bang!". Some other kid (11 year old) had climbed up the ladder
into the roof space, gone for a walk and discovered the ceiling was not
actually very strong - he fell through a 3m igh ceiling and landed bum first
into the blackboard shelf (quite deep), bounced off and landed on the floor.
Luckily for his arse he'd missed the pile of drawing pins!

Anyway, he limped off and we told the teacher when he returned.

Response: "Well, he shouldn't have been up there!" And that was the end of
that...



Can you imagine doing blown fibre insulation in a running school now
(especially as it clearly a crap idea in 1978!).



--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC, wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

Then again two patients locally were kept in a rehab ward for 62 days without receiving any rehab at a cost of circa £16,500 and apparently 62 days of physio were written down. All because the physo private practices and whiplash revenue is going down the toilet and the amount-per-mile they can claim is down 30% from July 2013 and they hate driving to visit patients.
The patients came out significantly worse than they went in re physical ability requiring in one case over 1yr of proper exercise to recover (#1) or died of DVT due to total inactivity (#2). Meanwhile a CQC investigation gives the hospital a score of 6. I think we should privatise below surgeon, it would break the RCN and massage parlour physios would be out too.

Oh, and cost out the multi-disciplinary monday meetings in the NHS and Education which have served no benefit apart from time wasting and jaw boning. Korea builds the product, UK more interested in 60s nonsense agenda. At last Shanghai appears in the education standards and absolutely no surprise to find it is (and has been for some time) #1 in the world. We get Coast instead of 70s jumper Open University and charge a kings ransom for utter toilet paper certification. Just 28yrs until USA reserve currency goes the way of UK, the way of France, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal etc.

On 06/12/2013 21:57, wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC,
wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much
money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such
nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

Health and Safety is fine if risk assessments are carried out by
competent people.

The law is quite clear, if you have assessed the risk and considered the
outcomes, then you're covered.

The expense may be significant, but the cost can be much greater if you
don't.

Fredxxx wrote:

On 06/12/2013 21:57, wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC,
wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much
money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such
nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

Health and Safety is fine if risk assessments are carried out by
competent people.

The law is quite clear, if you have assessed the risk and considered the
outcomes, then you're covered.

Indeed so. At one time my job was to put my signature to
documents which cleared new rolling stock as being designed in
compliance with all the relevant standards. Risk assessment was
an integral part of that task, and my signature meant my head
would be (indeed still could be for the life of the equipment) on
the block if things went wrong.

The problem with most of the silly cases reported is simply that
people are unwilling or unable to assess risk sensibly, and take
responsibility for their decision.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

Chris J Dixon wrote:

The problem with most of the silly cases reported is simply that
people are unwilling or unable to assess risk sensibly,

The latter. Say "do a risk assessment" to Joe Soap and you get a long
list of specious claptrap in the "might get hit by meteor" vein because
they feel they /have/ to say something. Saying "there are no significant
risks" when there aren't any is beyond them. There's always something -
what if he sneezes when he's up the ladder because of the dust and that
causes the ladder to rock and he has to grab the hot water pipe to
steady himself but it's really really hot, etc.

I believe it used to be called Common Sense.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 06/12/2013 21:57, wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC, wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing...

It is usually the people who interpret the regulations wrongly who waste
money, not the HSE. Their myth buster page shows what people can make up
under the guise of health and safety:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/Myth/myth-busting/index.htm

Colin Bignell

On Saturday, December 7, 2013 10:45:21 AM UTC, Nightjar wrote:
It is usually the people who interpret the regulations wrongly who waste
money, not the HSE.

I know - but the HSE & ONS should be made jointly responsible for assessing excessive interpretation and costing it out (yes I know the ONS has at times turned out nonsense). Money wasted on H&S limits improvements to health & safety elsewhere, it is as bad as poor H&S.

In Management Consultancy (stop laughing :-) the classic used to be a HBR/Whatever book pushed out and no-one interpreted it correctly, Balanced Scorecard or Benchmarking or Systems Thinking etc. The author had to do a "Field Book" to walk people through its use with concrete examples.

The HSE should create the same specifically for the public sector, every myth costed out and what it meant in terms of books / childrens autistic/terminal centres and so on - for the country.
If the country got used to a cost-benefit analysis from secondary school we might get rid of the bizarre mentality throughout Big Government - and force the EU to do the same.

£100 wasted on an electrician standing there to hold an MCB x1000 a year across the whole country is £100,000.

A hospital.
Reams of EPC certificates on the wall, surveys, morons walking around, all to say what NHS Estates could tell you in a minute that the rating is "crap".
Meanwhile ALL the treatment rooms and optical assessment room have doorways 1/4" wider each side than a 16" off the shelf wheelchair's pushrims which had by chance been modified to use short not long spacers. Anyone with a wider wheelchair (which is 40%+) could physically not have got into the rooms..
Meanwhile the patient examination chair was a fixed arm office chair, with no possibility of anyone doing a banana board transfer to it.
Meanwhile there was no opening ventilation or forced extraction, leaving sweat to pour off surgeons faces doing eye examinations in hot weather, running into their eyes trying to examine a patient with sweat running into theirs.

Clipboard Morons had completed their Tick Box Economy - wasting money better spent elsewhere, from EPC to HSE. We need efficiency teams to go into councils and bulldoze as necessary - publishing what they find with cost-benefit costings. As farcical as the "Education Grade Improvements" by dumbing down content - until someone does a by-country comparison showing the sham.

If we made gov't money fixed, including public sector pay & pensions, we might force efficiency... and a lot of red banners walking down the streets.

On 07/12/13 07:45, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:

On 06/12/2013 21:57, wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC,
wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much
money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such
nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

Health and Safety is fine if risk assessments are carried out by
competent people.

The law is quite clear, if you have assessed the risk and considered the
outcomes, then you're covered.

Indeed so. At one time my job was to put my signature to
documents which cleared new rolling stock as being designed in
compliance with all the relevant standards. Risk assessment was
an integral part of that task, and my signature meant my head
would be (indeed still could be for the life of the equipment) on
the block if things went wrong.

No.

"if you have assessed the risk and considered the outcomes, then you're
covered."

"I have assessed the risk and consider that the train will probably come
off at the first set of points".

The risk assessment done and box ticked, and that IS ALL YOU WAS
REQUIRED TO DO.



The problem with most of the silly cases reported is simply that
people are unwilling or unable to assess risk sensibly, and take
responsibility for their decision.

Chris



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:34:57 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

And if that is not bad enough the primary school I also worked at sent
permission letters back with the kids tht needed signing because the
fire brigade were going to do a display for the school and the fire
engines have CCTV. No sig and the kid cannot watch the display.

That I can assure you is the school being a bunch of numpties. We had
the full monty last week - ambulance, engine and police car and no slip.
Last slip I had was to do with an actual excursion to Hastings.

Or is it just the school knowing damn well (probably from prior
experience) that if they don't, some self-important paranoid arsehole of
a parent will throw their toys out of the pram about how the school don't
care one jot about protecting their children from peeedyfiles.

On Saturday 07 December 2013 14:01 Adrian wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:34:57 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

And if that is not bad enough the primary school I also worked at sent
permission letters back with the kids tht needed signing because the
fire brigade were going to do a display for the school and the fire
engines have CCTV. No sig and the kid cannot watch the display.

That I can assure you is the school being a bunch of numpties. We had
the full monty last week - ambulance, engine and police car and no slip.
Last slip I had was to do with an actual excursion to Hastings.

Or is it just the school knowing damn well (probably from prior
experience) that if they don't, some self-important paranoid arsehole of
a parent will throw their toys out of the pram about how the school don't
care one jot about protecting their children from peeedyfiles.

I think around here, they just tell such parents to stop being numpties!

Oh - we are actively encouraged to photograph and video the chilren in
plays. The only request is "please don't stick them on the [public[1]]
internet.

[1] "public" is my addition but it's what they mean.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On 07/12/2013 07:45, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:

On 06/12/2013 21:57, wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC,
wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much
money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such
nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

Health and Safety is fine if risk assessments are carried out by
competent people.

The law is quite clear, if you have assessed the risk and considered the
outcomes, then you're covered.

Indeed so. At one time my job was to put my signature to
documents which cleared new rolling stock as being designed in
compliance with all the relevant standards. Risk assessment was
an integral part of that task, and my signature meant my head
would be (indeed still could be for the life of the equipment) on
the block if things went wrong.

The problem with most of the silly cases reported is simply that
people are unwilling or unable to assess risk sensibly, and take
responsibility for their decision.

And the fact that most journalists are ****e hawks.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:34:57 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

And if that is not bad enough the primary school I also worked at sent
permission letters back with the kids tht needed signing because the
fire brigade were going to do a display for the school and the fire
engines have CCTV. No sig and the kid cannot watch the display.

That I can assure you is the school being a bunch of numpties. We had
the full monty last week - ambulance, engine and police car and no slip.
Last slip I had was to do with an actual excursion to Hastings.

Or is it just the school knowing damn well (probably from prior
experience) that if they don't, some self-important paranoid arsehole of
a parent will throw their toys out of the pram about how the school don't
care one jot about protecting their children from peeedyfiles.


Then the headmaster/headmistress should be telling such parents that that
they are accusing the fire service of been peeedyfiles and to belt up or
take their child to another school.

Do firemen have a DBS check done (rhetorical question)?

And the firemen do not have access to the CCTV recordings from the fire
truck (said so in the permission letter).

I blame the headmaster for this one.

--
Adam


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

That might make some sense if the lumineres were of the type that sit in
the
grid frame in place of a tile or mounted in a tile cutout - I could
imagine
collapsed ceilings maybe breaking the flex out of the fitting and dangling
around live.


The caretaker "somehow" managed to turn the MCB off for the small section of
ceiling that "fell down" but it "needed" an electrician to turn off the MCBs
where the ceiling had not fallen down. Thankfully the caretaker was there to
show me where the distribution boards were and tell me which breakers to
turn off for the rest of the corridor.


Fair play to him. He stood on a chair and switched them off for me.

--
Adam


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 07/12/2013 11:52, wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2013 10:45:21 AM UTC, Nightjar wrote:
It is usually the people who interpret the regulations wrongly who waste
money, not the HSE.

I know - but the HSE & ONS should be made jointly responsible for assessing excessive interpretation and costing it out

Why? Bad training is not their fault.

(yes I know the ONS has at times turned out nonsense). Money wasted on H&S limits improvements to health & safety elsewhere, it is as bad as poor H&S.

In Management Consultancy (stop laughing :-) the classic used to be a HBR/Whatever book pushed out and no-one interpreted it correctly, Balanced Scorecard or Benchmarking or Systems Thinking etc. The author had to do a "Field Book" to walk people through its use with concrete examples.

The HSE should create the same specifically for the public sector,every myth costed out and what it meant in terms of books / childrens
autistic/terminal centres and so on - for the country...

They do very good codes of practice and guidance notes that explain the
regulations in great detail and leave no doubt about what is actually
required. They also do a great deal to highlight errors made in the name
of H&S, with concrete examples.

Any competent person should have no problem identifying what needs to be
done. Incompetent people should not be employed to do H&S assessments,
but they have no control over that. I see no reason why they should have
to do cost benefits for things that shouldn't happen if people followed
the rules instead of making up their own.

Colin Bignell

On Saturday 07 December 2013 18:11 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

That might make some sense if the lumineres were of the type that sit in
the
grid frame in place of a tile or mounted in a tile cutout - I could
imagine
collapsed ceilings maybe breaking the flex out of the fitting and
dangling around live.


The caretaker "somehow" managed to turn the MCB off for the small section
of ceiling that "fell down" but it "needed" an electrician to turn off the
MCBs where the ceiling had not fallen down. Thankfully the caretaker was
there to show me where the distribution boards were and tell me which
breakers to turn off for the rest of the corridor.


Fair play to him. He stood on a chair and switched them off for me.


Good man!

Last summer school fete (that I always "dogsbody" for), we blew out one of
the rings with 2 bouncy castles.

No-one knew which breaker it was, so I went round with the head until I
spotted the tripped MCB (on the 2nd pass - several breakers were supposed to
be off, so it was not that obvious). To be fair there were 3 very well
populated 16x3 Type B boards in different parts of a very small school (it
had been built and extended at different times).


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 07/12/13 07:45, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Indeed so. At one time my job was to put my signature to
documents which cleared new rolling stock as being designed in
compliance with all the relevant standards. Risk assessment was
an integral part of that task, and my signature meant my head
would be (indeed still could be for the life of the equipment) on
the block if things went wrong.

No.

"if you have assessed the risk and considered the outcomes, then you're
covered."

"I have assessed the risk and consider that the train will probably come
off at the first set of points".

The risk assessment done and box ticked, and that IS ALL YOU WAS
REQUIRED TO DO.

Well, not getting the vehicle signed off was not the desired
outcome. Requiring changes, or additional investigation or
documentation sometimes happened.

Nevertheless, if my assessment was flawed, then it remains down
to me, there is no shrugging and walking away from it.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

BTW Did you get the offer of attending a speed awareness course? I did but I
cannot decide if I should just take the 3 points as it is cheaper.

--
Adam

Tim Streater grunted in
:

In article ,
wrote:

On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC,
wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much
money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such
nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

Most of it has nothing to do with the HSE. All the "no conkers" and
"no hanging flower baskets" crap is down to the local council.

Yes, but that in turn is down to the appalling compensation culture we
now live in. I find it rather hard to blame the authorities who have to
operate under these conditions. Eg, from a quick google:

"Hull City Council pays £34,000 after schoolgirl hurt in game of 'tag'":
http://tinyurl.com/oc6yesv

"Families in Lancashire have been awarded almost £800,000 over the past
five years after they sued over falls, slips, fingers trapped in doors
and other mishaps": http://tinyurl.com/mpl5yph

"Lewis Pierce... lashed out at his younger brother during playground
hijinks, missing his target and slicing his thumb open on a stainless
steel water fountain...he was awarded more than £3,000 compensation."
http://tinyurl.com/nqyhrqw

"Parent tried to sue Derby City Council after a conker fell on their
daughter's head in the school playground" http://tinyurl.com/kc3lv2r

And don't forget even the claims which end up failing still cost councils
£000s in defending, admin etc.


--
David

"Lobster" wrote in message
. 222...
Tim Streater grunted in
:

In article ,
wrote:

On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC,
wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much
money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such
nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

Most of it has nothing to do with the HSE. All the "no conkers" and
"no hanging flower baskets" crap is down to the local council.

Yes, but that in turn is down to the appalling compensation culture we
now live in. I find it rather hard to blame the authorities who have to
operate under these conditions. Eg, from a quick google:

"Hull City Council pays £34,000 after schoolgirl hurt in game of 'tag'":
http://tinyurl.com/oc6yesv

"Families in Lancashire have been awarded almost £800,000 over the past
five years after they sued over falls, slips, fingers trapped in doors
and other mishaps": http://tinyurl.com/mpl5yph

"Lewis Pierce... lashed out at his younger brother during playground
hijinks, missing his target and slicing his thumb open on a stainless
steel water fountain...he was awarded more than £3,000 compensation."
http://tinyurl.com/nqyhrqw

"Parent tried to sue Derby City Council after a conker fell on their
daughter's head in the school playground" http://tinyurl.com/kc3lv2r

And don't forget even the claims which end up failing still cost councils
£000s in defending, admin etc.

Then the council should be able to cliam back there costs if possible. ie
bankrupt the ****ers and take their houses off them etc. BTW I only claimed
on one occassion and got 2K



--
Adam

On 07/12/2013 11:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/12/13 07:45, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:

On 06/12/2013 21:57, wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:47:46 PM UTC,
wrote:
The council got an a independant guy

The amount of money wasted is truly a disgrace.

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much
money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such
nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

Health and Safety is fine if risk assessments are carried out by
competent people.

The law is quite clear, if you have assessed the risk and considered the
outcomes, then you're covered.

Indeed so. At one time my job was to put my signature to
documents which cleared new rolling stock as being designed in
compliance with all the relevant standards. Risk assessment was
an integral part of that task, and my signature meant my head
would be (indeed still could be for the life of the equipment) on
the block if things went wrong.

No.

"if you have assessed the risk and considered the outcomes, then you're
covered."

"I have assessed the risk and consider that the train will probably come
off at the first set of points".

The risk assessment done and box ticked, and that IS ALL YOU WAS
REQUIRED TO DO.

I do hope you are not actually responsible for carrying out risk
assessments.

The HSE give the following as essential components of a risk assessment:

1) a proper check was made;
2) all people who might be affected were considered;
3) all significant risks have been assessed;
4) the precautions are reasonable, and
5) the remaining risk is low.

Your supposed risk assessment fails at both 4 and 5.

Colin Bignell

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:00:11 +0000, ARW wrote:

BTW Did you get the offer of attending a speed awareness course?

If that was to me, then yes - but I've not had any more since returning
the form.

I did but I cannot decide if I should just take the 3 points as it is
cheaper.

£85 for the course, but the fixed penalty went up from £60 to £100
nationally a few months back.

All in all, it's a bit of a no-brainer. Half a day of entertainment
(although more in a laughing-at than laughing-with, I suspect) versus
hoping insurers aren't bothered at the points and wondering when the next
set'll arrive.

Adrian wrote:

All in all, it's a bit of a no-brainer. Half a day of entertainment
(although more in a laughing-at than laughing-with, I suspect) versus
hoping insurers aren't bothered at the points and wondering when the next
set'll arrive.

Or hoping your insurer doesn't ask if you've attended a speed awareness
course, and then adjust your premium as though you took the points anyway.

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:00:11 +0000, ARW wrote:

BTW Did you get the offer of attending a speed awareness course?

If that was to me, then yes - but I've not had any more since returning
the form.

I did but I cannot decide if I should just take the 3 points as it is
cheaper.

£85 for the course, but the fixed penalty went up from £60 to £100
nationally a few months back.

All in all, it's a bit of a no-brainer. Half a day of entertainment
(although more in a laughing-at than laughing-with, I suspect) versus
hoping insurers aren't bothered at the points and wondering when the next
set'll arrive.


The question was for you. And considering that I had not realised the cost
of a speeding ticket had gone up then it's just a days loss of earnings and
a no brainer.

Now the rules for the SAC

12. Satisfactory course completion is dependant upon attendance throughout
the 4 hour duration of the course and making a full and positive
contribution

so no laughing at then.....

Until you get home.


--
Adam

[Default] On Fri, 6 Dec 2013 13:57:25 -0800 (PST), a certain
chimpanzee, , randomly hit the keyboard and wrote:

Indeed the HSE should be dragged before parliament to show how much money IS wasted and watch them umm and erm after surveying such nonsense nationwide on an activity based costing.

We had a case come to our attention recently of a GasSafe fitter
install a boiler and a gas fire so badly it would have gassed the
owner and his neighbour the first time it was used. HSE have done ****
all. We ended up prosecuting on breaches of the Building Regulations.
I have reported numerous unsafe scaffolds, working practices (people
using JCB buckets as working platforms, etc.) to them without any
result. Their attitude seems to be, "call us when there are dead
bodies".

It ain't the HSE, it's self-certification by people who've been on a
two day course in assessing health and safety risks.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message
...

I have reported numerous unsafe scaffolds, working practices (people
using JCB buckets as working platforms, etc.)

What is wrong with using a JCB bucket as a working platform?

It does not bother me using one and I do not like heights.


--
Adam

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 12:51:33 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Or hoping your insurer doesn't ask if you've attended a speed awareness
course

The only way they would know is if I told 'em, since I was explicitly
told by the nice man in Dayglo that there would be no public record and I
did not need to tell...

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:09:53 +0000, ARW wrote:

Now the rules for the SAC

12. Satisfactory course completion is dependant upon attendance
throughout the 4 hour duration of the course and making a full and
positive contribution

so no laughing at then.....

Yeh, that's going to be the tricky bit...

Until you get home.

Absolutely.