Antifreeze Q
 

I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate." ASA 005
This is a number of years old ... but container has been sealed at all
times ... inside it is still the translucent yellow colour.
When mixed with correct volume of water the stuff is Blue at 25-30% and
Green at to 50% .... although I will use a Hydrometer.

Couple of Q's ......

# As this is ethylene glycol product, I'm sort of assuming it will not
'degrade' at worst some will have evaporated off ... but not much ....
so any reason why it should not still be used. (I know toxic issues
with EG)

# I will need to also buy some extra concentrate .. can you still get
'yellow' concentrate ?

I see BSA 005 on sale .... is this compatibel with ASA 005 ??

Antifreeze Q
 

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:34:14 PM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:

This is a number of years old ... but container has been sealed at all

times ... inside it is still the translucent yellow colour.

When mixed with correct volume of water the stuff is Blue at 25-30% and

Green at to 50% .... although I will use a Hydrometer.

Should be OK, it usually "goes off" when exposed to heat and oxygen; it turns acidic which causes corrosion of the engine. If in doubt, check with litmus paper.



I see BSA 005 on sale .... is this compatibel with ASA 005 ??

Haven't got the foggiest.

Antifreeze Q
 

Rick Hughes wrote:
I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate." ASA 005
This is a number of years old ... but container has been sealed at all
times ... inside it is still the translucent yellow colour.
When mixed with correct volume of water the stuff is Blue at 25-30% and
Green at to 50% .... although I will use a Hydrometer.

Couple of Q's ......

# As this is ethylene glycol product, I'm sort of assuming it will not
'degrade' at worst some will have evaporated off ... but not much ....
so any reason why it should not still be used. (I know toxic issues
with EG)

# I will need to also buy some extra concentrate .. can you still get
'yellow' concentrate ?

I see BSA 005 on sale .... is this compatibel with ASA 005 ??

Don't know about the yellow stuff, I've only ever seen blue or pink, which
aren't compatible together

Antifreeze Q
 

In message , Rick Hughes
writes
I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate." ASA 005
This is a number of years old ... but container has been sealed at all
times ... inside it is still the translucent yellow colour.
When mixed with correct volume of water the stuff is Blue at 25-30% and
Green at to 50% .... although I will use a Hydrometer.

Couple of Q's ......

# As this is ethylene glycol product, I'm sort of assuming it will not
'degrade' at worst some will have evaporated off ... but not much ....
so any reason why it should not still be used. (I know toxic issues
with EG)

# I will need to also buy some extra concentrate .. can you still get
'yellow' concentrate ?

I see BSA 005 on sale .... is this compatibel with ASA 005 ??




You could ask on here. I've found them very helpful
http://www.reagent.co.uk/anti-freeze-concentrate

--
bert

Antifreeze Q
 

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:34:14 PM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate."ASA 005
This is a number of years old ... but container has been sealed at all
times ... inside it is still the translucent yellow colour.
When mixed with correct volume of water the stuff is Blue at 25-30%and
Green at to 50%.... although I will use a Hydrometer.
Couple of Q's ......
# As this is ethylene glycol product, I'm sort of assuming it will not
'degrade' at worst some will have evaporated off ... but not much ....
so any reason why it should not still be used.(I know toxic issues
with EG)
# I will need to also buy some extra concentrate .. can you still get
'yellow' concentrate ?
I see BSA 005 on sale .... is this compatibel with ASA 005??

Methanol is the relatively toxic antifreeze, not EG


NT

Antifreeze Q
 

On 19/10/13 03:57, wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:34:14 PM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate."ASA 005
This is a number of years old ... but container has been sealed at all
times ... inside it is still the translucent yellow colour.
When mixed with correct volume of water the stuff is Blue at 25-30%and
Green at to 50%.... although I will use a Hydrometer.
Couple of Q's ......
# As this is ethylene glycol product, I'm sort of assuming it will not
'degrade' at worst some will have evaporated off ... but not much ....
so any reason why it should not still be used.(I know toxic issues
with EG)
# I will need to also buy some extra concentrate .. can you still get
'yellow' concentrate ?
I see BSA 005 on sale .... is this compatibel with ASA 005??

Methanol is the relatively toxic antifreeze, not EG



no it isnt.

NT



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Antifreeze Q
 

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:04:21 AM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/10/13 03:57, wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:34:14 PM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:

# As this is ethylene glycol product, I'm sort of assuming it will not
'degrade' at worst some will have evaporated off ... but not much ....
so any reason why it should not still be used.(I know toxic issues
with EG)

Methanol is the relatively toxic antifreeze, not EG

no it isnt.

Oral LD50 methanol 0.4g/kg
Oral LD50 ethylene glycol 4.7g (rat) 5.5g(mouse)


NT

Antifreeze Q
 

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 3:57:32 AM UTC+1, wrote:

Methanol is the relatively toxic antifreeze, not EG





NT

No, it is not.

WTF is the matter with you?
Why the obsessive compulsion to post about things you know nothing about?
Have you put that is the Wiki thing?

Automotive antifreeze is almost always ethylene glycol. It is very toxic and has a sweet taste.

Antifreeze used in domestic heating systems is propylene glycol which is non-toxic; there is a risk of contaminating the DCWS through a leaking cylinder coil. It is used as a sweetener in the food industry, so sweet it would put your teeth on edge, apparently. This is the stuff that was being used to adulterate wine a decade or so back.

Methanol was used as anti-freeze, before the glycols became commonly available. It isn't used now because of the hazards (volatile liquid) and the cost.

Antifreeze Q
 

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 5:59:25 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:04:21 AM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

no it isnt.



Oral LD50 methanol 0.4g/kg

Oral LD50 ethylene glycol 4.7g (rat) 5.5g(mouse)

Ethylene glycol LD50 Acute: 4700 mg/kg [Rat]. 5500 mg/kg [Mouse].

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927167

It's has a particular risk since animals will drink any spillage due to the sweet taste and in freezing weather conditions, it will be the only liquid that doesn't freeze.

The antidote for both ethylene glycol and methanol poisoning is alcohol, an ethanol drip usually ISTR.

Antifreeze Q
 

On 19/10/13 18:11, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 19, 2013 3:57:32 AM UTC+1,
wrote:

Methanol is the relatively toxic antifreeze, not EG





NT

No, it is not.

WTF is the matter with you? Why the obsessive compulsion to post
about things you know nothing about? Have you put that is the Wiki
thing?

Automotive antifreeze is almost always ethylene glycol. It is very
toxic and has a sweet taste.


Its not VERY toxic but it causes death because it tastes nice.


Antifreeze used in domestic heating systems is propylene glycol which
is non-toxic; there is a risk of contaminating the DCWS through a
leaking cylinder coil. It is used as a sweetener in the food
industry, so sweet it would put your teeth on edge, apparently. This
is the stuff that was being used to adulterate wine a decade or so
back.


some cars use that as well.

Methanol was used as anti-freeze, before the glycols became commonly
available. It isn't used now because of the hazards (volatile liquid)
and the cost.

glycol also raises the boiling point of water which is handy in high
performance radiators.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Antifreeze Q
 

On 19/10/2013 17:59, wrote:
On Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:04:21 AM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/10/13 03:57, wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:34:14 PM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:

# As this is ethylene glycol product, I'm sort of assuming it will not
'degrade' at worst some will have evaporated off ... but not much ....
so any reason why it should not still be used.(I know toxic issues
with EG)

Methanol is the relatively toxic antifreeze, not EG

no it isnt.

Oral LD50 methanol 0.4g/kg
Oral LD50 ethylene glycol 4.7g (rat) 5.5g(mouse)


NT

Is that methanol LD50 for humans or rodents?
What is EG LD50 for humans?

--
Rod

Antifreeze Q
 

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:41:22 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Its not VERY toxic but it causes death because it tastes nice.

I thought a very small glass or so would see you out, but have never felt the urge to try it.

Methanol would probably blind you before it killed you.
I think the digestion process turns it into formic acid which attackes the optic nerves. I'm not a chemist and don't claim any knowledge of the chemistry.

I think it's also why poor quality whiskey was called red eye. Distillation at the rcorrectly measured temperatures will separate the ethanol and methanol.

Apple jack used to be made in the US by freezing barrels of cider outdoors in winter.
The ice was removed and the liquid remaining contained most of the alcohol.
They stopped using that method because it concentrated both the ethanol and methanol.

You still see 'freeze distillation' recommended on the interent for making home brew whisky.

Antifreeze Q
 

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:46:51 PM UTC+1, polygonum wrote:

Is that methanol LD50 for humans or rodents?

What is EG LD50 for humans?

Any volunteers?

Antifreeze Q
 

On 19/10/13 19:17, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:41:22 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Its not VERY toxic but it causes death because it tastes nice.

I thought a very small glass or so would see you out, but have never felt the urge to try it.

Methanol would probably blind you before it killed you.
I think the digestion process turns it into formic acid which attackes the optic nerves. I'm not a chemist and don't claim any knowledge of the chemistry.

I think it's also why poor quality whiskey was called red eye. Distillation at the rcorrectly measured temperatures will separate the ethanol and methanol.

Apple jack used to be made in the US by freezing barrels of cider outdoors in winter.
The ice was removed and the liquid remaining contained most of the alcohol.
They stopped using that method because it concentrated both the ethanol and methanol.

You still see 'freeze distillation' recommended on the interent for making home brew whisky.

methanol in the mix is I think due to a wrong yeast type..mm. Apparently
not. Not sure what is on 'bad whiskey' but it may well be not methanol
at all but nasty esters and so on.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Antifreeze Q
 

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:11:48 PM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 19, 2013 3:57:32 AM UTC+1, wrote:

Methanol is the relatively toxic antifreeze, not EG

No, it is not.
WTF is the matter with you?
Why the obsessive compulsion to post about things you know nothing about?
Have you put that is the Wiki thing?
Automotive antifreeze is almost always ethylene glycol. It is very toxic and has a sweet taste.
Antifreeze used in domestic heating systems is propylene glycol which is non-toxic; there is a risk of contaminating the DCWS through a leaking cylinder coil. It is used as a sweetener in the food industry, so sweet it would put your teeth on edge, apparently. This is the stuff that was being used to adulterate wine a decade or so back.
Methanol was used as anti-freeze, before the glycols became commonly available. It isn't used now because of the hazards (volatile liquid) and the cost.

Lets see what the UK Health Protection Agency has to say
http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile.../1194947361312


NT

Antifreeze Q
 

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:07:19 AM UTC+1, wrote:

Lets see what the UK Health Protection Agency has to say

They say that car anti-freeze is almost always PEG and that you're a dopey know-all ****.

Antifreeze Q
 

In article ,
Onetap writes

Automotive antifreeze is almost always ethylene glycol. It is very toxic and has a
sweet taste.

For info, EG sold for that purpose in the EU is required have an
embittering agent added to discourage consumption by animals and humans
so in practice the risks are mitigated.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

Antifreeze Q
 

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:16:20 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
In article ,

For info, EG sold for that purpose in the EU is required have an

embittering agent added to discourage consumption by animals and humans

so in practice the risks are mitigated.


But not very effective, according to some of the posters on this thread;

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikei...ies_that_make/

I'd assume they're mostly in the USA, hence the query why there isn't a legal requirement to add embittering agent.

Antifreeze Q
 

In article ,
Onetap writes
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:16:20 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
In article ,

For info, EG sold for that purpose in the EU is required have an

embittering agent added to discourage consumption by animals and humans

so in practice the risks are mitigated.


But not very effective, according to some of the posters on this thread;

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikei...dont_all_of_th
e_companies_that_make/

I'd assume they're mostly in the USA, hence the query why there isn't a legal
requirement to add embittering agent.

Not sure of the origins of the posts, quite a bit of British English in
use but refs to USA and one from Sweden who mentions the use of
embittering agents in his locale.

When I looked at this before I thought that the BS/EN specs for the
product had been modified to include bittering agents but now I'm not so
sure. A quick search shows people in the UK still floating petitions to
make the inclusion compulsory so I assume it has not made it to statute
yet.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

Antifreeze Q
 

"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:16:20 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
In article ,

For info, EG sold for that purpose in the EU is required have an

embittering agent added to discourage consumption by animals and humans

so in practice the risks are mitigated.


But not very effective, according to some of the posters on this thread;

Cats will not drink it :-(

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikei...ies_that_make/

I'd assume they're mostly in the USA, hence the query why there isn't a
legal requirement to add embittering agent.

Antifreeze Q
 

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:40:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:07:19 AM UTC+1, wrote:

Lets see what the UK Health Protection Agency has to say

They say that car anti-freeze is almost always PEG and that you're a dopey know-all ****.

Correction:

There are many uses for methanol including
the manufacture of other chemicals and in
the production of paints, solvents, varnishes,
paint thinners, certain cleaning solutions
such as windscreen wash and some
antifreeze solutions.

In the home, methanol may be used in
antifreeze and for powering small model
engines.

Methanol has good solvent properties and is used widely in paints, varnishes, paint thinners
and cleaning products such as vehicle wind-screen wash.

Methanol is added in small amounts (~5%) to ethanol (alcohol) to make Industrial Methylated
Spirit (IMS) or “meths”.

So its widely used as an antifreeze and cleaner, mostly in screenwash nowadays


NT

Antifreeze Q
 

On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 5:16:12 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:40:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:07:19 AM UTC+1, wrote:



Lets see what the UK Health Protection Agency has to say



They say that car anti-freeze is almost always PEG and that you're a dopey know-all ****.



Correction:



There are many uses for methanol including

the manufacture of other chemicals and in

the production of paints, solvents, varnishes,

paint thinners, certain cleaning solutions

such as windscreen wash and some

antifreeze solutions.



In the home, methanol may be used in

antifreeze and for powering small model

engines.



Methanol has good solvent properties and is used widely in paints, varnishes, paint thinners

and cleaning products such as vehicle wind-screen wash.



Methanol is added in small amounts (~5%) to ethanol (alcohol) to make Industrial Methylated

Spirit (IMS) or “meths”.



So its widely used as an antifreeze and cleaner, mostly in screenwash nowadays





NT

Hurrah for you. You can Google.
The question was about;
" I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate." ASA 005"

Automotive anti-freeze.
How much of that involves methanol?
None.

Wait until someone asks about screenwash or deicer and your answer may be relevant.

Antifreeze Q
 

On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 11:34:17 PM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 5:16:12 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:40:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:07:19 AM UTC+1, wrote:

Lets see what the UK Health Protection Agency has to say

They say that car anti-freeze is almost always PEG and that you're a dopey know-all ****.

Correction:
There are many uses for methanol including
the manufacture of other chemicals and in
the production of paints, solvents, varnishes,
paint thinners, certain cleaning solutions
such as windscreen wash and some
antifreeze solutions.
In the home, methanol may be used in
antifreeze and for powering small model
engines.
Methanol has good solvent properties and is used widely in paints, varnishes, paint thinners
and cleaning products such as vehicle wind-screen wash.
Methanol is added in small amounts (~5%) to ethanol (alcohol) to make Industrial Methylated
Spirit (IMS) or “meths”.
So its widely used as an antifreeze and cleaner, mostly in screenwash nowadays
NT

Hurrah for you. You can Google.
The question was about;
" I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate." ASA 005"
Automotive anti-freeze.
How much of that involves methanol?
None.
Wait until someone asks about screenwash or deicer and your answer may be relevant.

I was correcting your claim that methanol is not the more toxic antifreeze, and that it isnt even used as antifreeze.

I've no doubt you'll keep going round and round with more bs. Why don't you waste someone else's time.


NT

Antifreeze Q
 

On 22/10/13 23:34, Onetap wrote:
On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 5:16:12 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:40:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:07:19 AM UTC+1, wrote:



Lets see what the UK Health Protection Agency has to say



They say that car anti-freeze is almost always PEG and that you're a dopey know-all ****.



Correction:



There are many uses for methanol including

the manufacture of other chemicals and in

the production of paints, solvents, varnishes,

paint thinners, certain cleaning solutions

such as windscreen wash and some

antifreeze solutions.



In the home, methanol may be used in

antifreeze and for powering small model

engines.



Methanol has good solvent properties and is used widely in paints, varnishes, paint thinners

and cleaning products such as vehicle wind-screen wash.



Methanol is added in small amounts (~5%) to ethanol (alcohol) to make Industrial Methylated

Spirit (IMS) or €œmeths€�.



So its widely used as an antifreeze and cleaner, mostly in screenwash nowadays





NT

Hurrah for you. You can Google.
The question was about;
" I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate." ASA 005"

Automotive anti-freeze.
How much of that involves methanol?
None.

Wait until someone asks about screenwash or deicer and your answer may be relevant.

praopnaol often as not


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Antifreeze Q
 

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 9:01:41 AM UTC+1, wrote:

I was correcting your claim that methanol is not the more toxic antifreeze, and that it isnt even used as antifreeze.

More lies from the half wit trying to act knowledgeable.
We were talking about car antifreeze; there's no methanol in that.
There's no methanol in anti-freeze used in building services systems (chilled water or heating).

It's used in screen wash additives, partly for it bactericidal quality, and in deicer.
So STFU until someone asks about that.

The only application for methanol anti-freeze I ever came across was on a run-around heat recovery system that handled about 15 m^3/s. It had been treated with conventional anti-freeze, but the pipework was galvanized and the corrosion inhibitors used in the solution (potassium diphosphate ISTR) were incompatible with the zinc coating. The anti-freeze manufacturer never produced a answer to queries. The methanol was never used, it just relied on the hard-wired low-temperature manual-reset cut-off.

So, where were we?
Oh yes; you were telling me about anti-freeze chemistry, axial flow PC fans on radiators, tube-in-shell heat exchangers and similar technical stuff of which you have no knowledge and no experience.

Please continue, do.


I've no doubt you'll keep going round and round with more bs. Why don't you waste someone else's time.

Me? Waste time?
You've wasted your entire life, child.
Get back in your cubicle.

Antifreeze Q
 

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 9:26:53 AM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


praopnaol often as not

Quite likely; some such alcohol.
Vodka works quite well as deicer.

Antifreeze Q
 

On 19/10/2013 19:17, Onetap wrote:

Apple jack used to be made in the US by freezing barrels of cider outdoors in winter.
The ice was removed and the liquid remaining contained most of the alcohol.
They stopped using that method because it concentrated both the ethanol and methanol.



There are plenty of home brew wine makers, who will do this to increase
alcohol content of the wine

Antifreeze Q
 

On 23/10/2013 09:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/10/13 23:34, Onetap wrote:
On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 5:16:12 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:40:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:07:19 AM UTC+1, wrote:



Lets see what the UK Health Protection Agency has to say



They say that car anti-freeze is almost always PEG and that you're a
dopey know-all ****.



Correction:



There are many uses for methanol including

the manufacture of other chemicals and in

the production of paints, solvents, varnishes,

paint thinners, certain cleaning solutions

such as windscreen wash and some

antifreeze solutions.



In the home, methanol may be used in

antifreeze and for powering small model

engines.



Methanol has good solvent properties and is used widely in paints,
varnishes, paint thinners

and cleaning products such as vehicle wind-screen wash.



Methanol is added in small amounts (~5%) to ethanol (alcohol) to make
Industrial Methylated

Spirit (IMS) or €œmeths€�.



So its widely used as an antifreeze and cleaner, mostly in screenwash
nowadays





NT

Hurrah for you. You can Google.
The question was about;
" I have an almost full 5L container of "CarPlan All Season Antifreeze
concentrate." ASA 005"

Automotive anti-freeze.
How much of that involves methanol?
None.

Wait until someone asks about screenwash or deicer and your answer may
be relevant.

praopnaol often as not


Why would you put a beta blocker in your screen wash? :-)

--
Rod

Antifreeze Q
 

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 10:47:06 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 9:01:41 AM UTC+1, wrote:

I was correcting your claim that methanol is not the more toxic antifreeze, and that it isnt even used as antifreeze.

More lies

No, just 2 facts. Keep up the childish bs