|
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
Hi Folks,
Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? Looks like the neighbours possibly have their gas piped up a similar old steel pipe. I'm waiting to hear back from Wales&West but thought someone here might have come across the same situation. Cheers Pete@ -- http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Home and Commercial Fitness Equipment etc. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
On Monday 16 September 2013 13:14 www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote in uk.d-i-y:
Hi Folks, Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this I very much doubt it :-| or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? You'll really have to wait for them to reply - noone else will be able to second guess them. Looks like the neighbours possibly have their gas piped up a similar old steel pipe. I'm waiting to hear back from Wales&West but thought someone here might have come across the same situation. Cheers Pete@ -- Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/ http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage Reading this on the web? See: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
In article ,
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? BG did indeed run a plastic pipe inside the original iron barrel here when they installed a new main in the street. -- *Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
On Monday, September 16, 2013 1:44:17 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
BG did indeed run a plastic pipe inside the original iron barrel here when they installed a new main in the street. Same here earlier this year. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
Muddymike wrote:
Hi Folks, Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? Looks like the neighbours possibly have their gas piped up a similar old steel pipe. I'm waiting to hear back from Wales&West but thought someone here might have come across the same situation. Don't for one minute think I am recommending this course of action but I did know a guy some 40 years ago that found a pipe just like the one you describe in the basement of an old house he had just bought. A few months later he had full gas central heating and hot water running off it. He lived there for at least ten years and never did get a gas meter! He probably did get a meter, just not one that any gas company knew about - they are freely available. I've known a few people do this, a chap I knew had extensive work done on his house, one of the jobs he did himself while all the suspended floors were being filled in with mot prior to concreting, was to branch off the gas main so that he had another meter coming up under his stairs, needless to say, his CH and HW came from this, while the official meter supplied his gas hob |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
Hi Folks,
Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? Looks like the neighbours possibly have their gas piped up a similar old steel pipe. I'm waiting to hear back from Wales&West but thought someone here might have come across the same situation. Don't for one minute think I am recommending this course of action but I did know a guy some 40 years ago that found a pipe just like the one you describe in the basement of an old house he had just bought. A few months later he had full gas central heating and hot water running off it. He lived there for at least ten years and never did get a gas meter! Mike |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
In article ,
"Phil L" writes: He probably did get a meter, just not one that any gas company knew about - they are freely available. I've known a few people do this, a chap I knew had extensive work done on his house, one of the jobs he did himself while all the suspended floors were being filled in with mot prior to concreting, was to branch off the gas main so that he had another meter coming up under his stairs, needless to say, his CH and HW came from this, while the official meter supplied his gas hob The house next to me was empty when gas privatisation happened (1986?). It was eventually sold to a plumber who spent a couple of years stripping it out and refitting it before moving in. After a few years, he sold it and the next people who moved in eventually asked me over the fence if I got a gas bill (yes), because they'd never had one. They were quite worried by this and spent some time trying to sort it out. I never heard what happened, but they eventually sold the house. A retired couple moved in for a few years, and then sold it. Followed by another retired couple, who were there for ~5 years. After about a year, I got the same question from them - no gas bills. So I guess the owners two before never managed to sort it out, although I know they tried. I presume all the owners since gas privatisation had never got a gas bill. These folks continued trying to sort it out, and eventually managed to do so shortly before they sold the house, a couple of years ago. So the house had no gas bills for over 20 years. There was an almost identical case on Radio 4 last week, except it was the same owner for 20 years. She had also been trying to get it solved, but gas companies all told her that her property didn't have gas, so they couldn't bill her. Eventually she got an MPAN number allocated, and then could be sold gas. Because she had been trying to sort it out, they could only bill her for last 12 months usage. (If you haven't tried to correct such an issue, they can bill you right back to the date of gas privatisation.) -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
On 16/09/2013 14:16, Muddymike wrote:
Don't for one minute think I am recommending this course of action but I did know a guy some 40 years ago that found a pipe just like the one you describe in the basement of an old house he had just bought. A few months later he had full gas central heating and hot water running off it. He lived there for at least ten years and never did get a gas meter! :¬) Perish the thought... Got an engineer booked in got a Live/Dead check on the weekend. The original street pipe was replaced with plastic one last year so I'd have hoped they might have hooked all properties at the time rather than now have to come and dig the road back up to connect the occasional house. Time will tell. Cheers Pete@ |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
So the house had no gas bills for over 20 years. Friends of mine moved into a new house over 10 years ago, never received bills, they now rent the property out "including gas", but the new tenant would like to change supplier ... guess it might catch up with them soon! |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
On 16/09/2013 13:14, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
Hi Folks, Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? Looks like the neighbours possibly have their gas piped up a similar old steel pipe. I'm waiting to hear back from Wales&West but thought someone here might have come across the same situation. Cheers Pete@ If the neighbours are still using the steel pipes per se - as opposed to plastic pipes running inside the steel - then your pipe may well be live. Do you know whether the neighbours have plastic inside the steel? We had a new plastic gas main - with plastic pipes inside the steel supply pipes a few years ago. I would imagine that the whole country has been done by now. My in-laws used to live in a bungalow with a capped off gas supply which was installed when the house was built. They never used gas, so the supply remained capped off. When the area was converted to plastic, I'm pretty sure that their capped off supply was disconnected at the main. If yours is like that, you'd have to pay for a hole to be dug and for a plastic pipe to be inserted and connected into the main. I'd be inclined to unscrew the cap and see whether any gas comes out! -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
"mike" wrote in message ... On Monday, September 16, 2013 1:44:17 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: BG did indeed run a plastic pipe inside the original iron barrel here when they installed a new main in the street. Same here earlier this year. Ditto. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
Roger Mills wrote:
We had a new plastic gas main - with plastic pipes inside the steel supply pipes a few years ago. I would imagine that the whole country has been done by now. Still steel here (70's house in Leicestershire) and parents (60's house in Lincolnshire). |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
In message , at 14:58:07 on Mon, 16 Sep
2013, www.GymRatZ.co.uk remarked: Got an engineer booked in got a Live/Dead check on the weekend. The original street pipe was replaced with plastic one last year so I'd have hoped they might have hooked all properties at the time rather than now have to come and dig the road back up to connect the occasional house. Time will tell. That may depend on who was living in the house at the time of the replacement exercise. I had a house about eight years ago where they gave very little notice (although clearly there were holes in the road everywhere) and tried to give the impression that if you didn't co-operate and let them in on exactly the day they were doing your bit of the street, that they'd just cut it off and carry on without you. It wouldn't take more than a week or two being away to have missed the entire exercise. -- Roland Perry |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" wrote in message ... Hi Folks, Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? Looks like the neighbours possibly have their gas piped up a similar old steel pipe. I'm waiting to hear back from Wales&West but thought someone here might have come across the same situation. I have had my gas meter removed. They were going to charge me rental on it. I don't use gas. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
On 16/09/2013 14:27, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 14:16:09 +0100, Phil L wrote: Muddymike wrote: Hi Folks, Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? Looks like the neighbours possibly have their gas piped up a similar old steel pipe. I'm waiting to hear back from Wales&West but thought someone here might have come across the same situation. Don't for one minute think I am recommending this course of action but I did know a guy some 40 years ago that found a pipe just like the one you describe in the basement of an old house he had just bought. A few months later he had full gas central heating and hot water running off it. He lived there for at least ten years and never did get a gas meter! He probably did get a meter, just not one that any gas company knew about - they are freely available. I've known a few people do this, a chap I knew had extensive work done on his house, one of the jobs he did himself while all the suspended floors were being filled in with mot prior to concreting, was to branch off the gas main so that he had another meter coming up under his stairs, needless to say, his CH and HW came from this, while the official meter supplied his gas hob I wonder how efficient the gas fraud detection systems are ? Presumably with electricity it's a fairly easy job to say "we made X GW of energy, but only got paid for Y" (where YX). Especially if you meter down to substation level. Is the same possible with CuM of gas ? Considering that a fraud detection system could also be of value in detecting leaks, it would seem to be an excellent idea to have such a system. My experiences of gas leaks over the past five to ten years suggests to me that they have absolutely no idea where a huge proportion of gas goes. They might know to the kilowatt hour exactly how much they push down the pipes - and then they lose track of it. In our own case, when our water main burst, the gas people found five leaks. (I had reported the smell of gas on three occasions over the years. Once they checked it out and said it was insignificant.) In several parts of town where we regularly drive, a very noticeable smell of gas has existed for years. Nothing done. Then one day they clearly do an emergency repair. Smell disappears at that precise spot. A few tens or metres up or down the road, the smell still continues. A few weeks/months/years later they fix that. -- Rod |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 16/09/2013 14:16, Muddymike wrote: Don't for one minute think I am recommending this course of action but I did know a guy some 40 years ago that found a pipe just like the one you describe in the basement of an old house he had just bought. A few months later he had full gas central heating and hot water running off it. He lived there for at least ten years and never did get a gas meter! ¬) Perish the thought... Got an engineer booked in got a Live/Dead check on the weekend. The original street pipe was replaced with plastic one last year so I'd have hoped they might have hooked all properties at the time rather than now have to come and dig the road back up to connect the occasional house. Time will tell. Well considering that they now remove unused gas supplies to houses[1] and that involves digging the road up, I would be surprised if they would add an unused supply to a house. [1] My friend applied to buy his council house. It had a gas supply but no gas appliances. Just before the completion date Transco (or whatever) informed him that they were removing the unused gas supply. Now the first thing he wanted to do when he bought the house was install gas CH so he explained the situation to them (ie in 6 weeks time he would be needing gas so could they leave it in). And sure as hell they removed the gas the day before he bought the house (for free) and then had to reconnect another 6 weeks later (at his expense). -- Adam |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
On 16/09/2013 19:04, polygonum wrote:
On 16/09/2013 14:27, Jethro_uk wrote: On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 14:16:09 +0100, Phil L wrote: Muddymike wrote: Hi Folks, Not really a D-I-Y option but we're looking at getting an old property connected to the gas. There is what appears to be a steel pipe running into a corner of the property capped off. I can only think it is an old gas service that was fitted when gas was run along the street but never connected up. Would the gas board (Wales and West) ever use an old pipe such as this or would they insist on running a new plastic line or even running a smaller plastic line up the inside of an old steel pipe? Looks like the neighbours possibly have their gas piped up a similar old steel pipe. I'm waiting to hear back from Wales&West but thought someone here might have come across the same situation. Don't for one minute think I am recommending this course of action but I did know a guy some 40 years ago that found a pipe just like the one you describe in the basement of an old house he had just bought. A few months later he had full gas central heating and hot water running off it. He lived there for at least ten years and never did get a gas meter! He probably did get a meter, just not one that any gas company knew about - they are freely available. I've known a few people do this, a chap I knew had extensive work done on his house, one of the jobs he did himself while all the suspended floors were being filled in with mot prior to concreting, was to branch off the gas main so that he had another meter coming up under his stairs, needless to say, his CH and HW came from this, while the official meter supplied his gas hob I wonder how efficient the gas fraud detection systems are ? Presumably with electricity it's a fairly easy job to say "we made X GW of energy, but only got paid for Y" (where YX). Especially if you meter down to substation level. Is the same possible with CuM of gas ? Considering that a fraud detection system could also be of value in detecting leaks, it would seem to be an excellent idea to have such a system. My experiences of gas leaks over the past five to ten years suggests to me that they have absolutely no idea where a huge proportion of gas goes. They might know to the kilowatt hour exactly how much they push down the pipes - and then they lose track of it. In our own case, when our water main burst, the gas people found five leaks. (I had reported the smell of gas on three occasions over the years. Once they checked it out and said it was insignificant.) In several parts of town where we regularly drive, a very noticeable smell of gas has existed for years. Nothing done. Then one day they clearly do an emergency repair. Smell disappears at that precise spot. A few tens or metres up or down the road, the smell still continues. A few weeks/months/years later they fix that. Back in the days when I still lived at my parents, we called out BG three times to a smell of gas in the porch. They insisted there was no problem. We then called them out a fourth time and pointed out the leak in *their* pipework to the meter, which we'd found simply with soap and water. SteveW |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
In article , Jethro_uk
scribeth thus On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:04:41 +0100, polygonum wrote: My experiences of gas leaks over the past five to ten years suggests to me that they have absolutely no idea where a huge proportion of gas goes. They might know to the kilowatt hour exactly how much they push down the pipes - and then they lose track of it. When I worked for British Gas "Central Control", we'd vent cubic *kilometres* of gas from offtakes when undertaking pigging runs. The CAA had to be informed, as planes flying overhead could conceivably crash ... What's a "pigging run" please?... -- Tony Sayer |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Jethro_uk When I worked for British Gas "Central Control", we'd vent cubic *kilometres* of gas from offtakes when undertaking pigging runs. The CAA had to be informed, as planes flying overhead could conceivably crash ... What's a "pigging run" please?... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging "Pigging in the context of pipelines refers to the practice of using pipeline inspection gauges or 'pigs' to perform various maintenance operations on a pipeline. This is done without stopping the flow of the product in the pipeline. These operations include but are not limited to cleaning and inspecting the pipeline. This is accomplished by inserting the pig into a 'pig launcher' (or 'launching station') - a funnel shaped Y section in the pipeline. The launcher / launching station is then closed and the pressure-driven flow of the product in the pipeline is used to push it along down the pipe until it reaches the receiving trap – the 'pig catcher' (or 'receiving station')." Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Plant amazing Acers. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
tony sayer wrote:
scribeth thus When I worked for British Gas "Central Control", we'd vent cubic *kilometres* of gas from offtakes when undertaking pigging runs. What's a "pigging run" please?... A pig is a device that is inserted into the pipeline and then blown along, either to survey them, or clean them. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
In message , tony sayer
writes In article , Jethro_uk scribeth thus On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:04:41 +0100, polygonum wrote: My experiences of gas leaks over the past five to ten years suggests to me that they have absolutely no idea where a huge proportion of gas goes. They might know to the kilowatt hour exactly how much they push down the pipes - and then they lose track of it. When I worked for British Gas "Central Control", we'd vent cubic *kilometres* of gas from offtakes when undertaking pigging runs. The CAA had to be informed, as planes flying overhead could conceivably crash ... What's a "pigging run" please?... Guessing.. pipeline internal inspection by *pig*. -- Tim Lamb |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
In message , at 09:04:39 on
Tue, 17 Sep 2013, Chris J Dixon remarked: "Pigging in the context of pipelines refers to the practice of using pipeline inspection gauges or 'pigs' to perform various maintenance operations on a pipeline. This is done without stopping the flow of the product in the pipeline. Or in the case of town gas, having let the product escape, it seems. -- Roland Perry |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
On Monday, September 16, 2013 2:16:09 PM UTC+1, Phil L wrote:
He probably did get a meter, just not one that any gas company knew about - they are freely available. Hypothetically, wouldn't one also need a regulator/governor? I suppose such people aren't worried about the GasSafe person doing their annual boiler check reporting it? Owain |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
wrote:
On Monday, September 16, 2013 2:16:09 PM UTC+1, Phil L wrote: He probably did get a meter, just not one that any gas company knew about - they are freely available. Hypothetically, wouldn't one also need a regulator/governor? I suppose such people aren't worried about the GasSafe person doing their annual boiler check reporting it? I wouldn't advocate it, but how would Mr Gas Safe know? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231053303457 My newest meter does have a collar and security tag around one of the pipes where it mounts onto the plate, but plenty of meters have never had those. |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
In article , Jethro_uk
scribeth thus On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 08:42:58 +0100, tony sayer wrote: In article , Jethro_uk scribeth thus On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:04:41 +0100, polygonum wrote: My experiences of gas leaks over the past five to ten years suggests to me that they have absolutely no idea where a huge proportion of gas goes. They might know to the kilowatt hour exactly how much they push down the pipes - and then they lose track of it. When I worked for British Gas "Central Control", we'd vent cubic *kilometres* of gas from offtakes when undertaking pigging runs. The CAA had to be informed, as planes flying overhead could conceivably crash ... What's a "pigging run" please?... Others have answered for me - it was a remote controlled device for inspecting the inside of the high pressure (75Bar) pipes. Only back in the 80s they couldn't work in gas, so stretches of pipe would be isolated and vented ... methane is lighter than air so goes *up*. Learn summatt every day;).. Funnily enough, there was a theory which had some vogue a few years ago, that the Bermuda Triangle was actually an undersea phenomenon which sporadically released large burps of methane ... which would make it impossible to float or fly over ..... Interesting concept must have been a hellauva burp to have done that!.. -- Tony Sayer |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Jethro_uk scribeth thus On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 08:42:58 +0100, tony sayer wrote: In article , Jethro_uk scribeth thus On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:04:41 +0100, polygonum wrote: My experiences of gas leaks over the past five to ten years suggests to me that they have absolutely no idea where a huge proportion of gas goes. They might know to the kilowatt hour exactly how much they push down the pipes - and then they lose track of it. When I worked for British Gas "Central Control", we'd vent cubic *kilometres* of gas from offtakes when undertaking pigging runs. The CAA had to be informed, as planes flying overhead could conceivably crash ... What's a "pigging run" please?... Others have answered for me - it was a remote controlled device for inspecting the inside of the high pressure (75Bar) pipes. Only back in the 80s they couldn't work in gas, so stretches of pipe would be isolated and vented ... methane is lighter than air so goes *up*. Learn summatt every day;).. Funnily enough, there was a theory which had some vogue a few years ago, that the Bermuda Triangle was actually an undersea phenomenon which sporadically released large burps of methane ... which would make it impossible to float or fly over ..... Interesting concept must have been a hellauva burp to have done that!.. Sub-sea earthquake causing a "landslide" reducing the pressure on methane hydrates which then gassify. It could happen conceivably and would be a good explanation for a lot of Bermuda triangle "events". Tim |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
In message , at 15:20:58 on Tue, 17 Sep
2013, tony sayer remarked: Funnily enough, there was a theory which had some vogue a few years ago, that the Bermuda Triangle was actually an undersea phenomenon which sporadically released large burps of methane ... which would make it impossible to float or fly over ..... Interesting concept must have been a hellauva burp to have done that!.. Not very plausible given that it would result in wreckage of planes and flotsam from boats. -- Roland Perry |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
On 17/09/2013 00:19, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:04:41 +0100, polygonum wrote: My experiences of gas leaks over the past five to ten years suggests to me that they have absolutely no idea where a huge proportion of gas goes. They might know to the kilowatt hour exactly how much they push down the pipes - and then they lose track of it. When I worked for British Gas "Central Control", we'd vent cubic *kilometres* of gas from offtakes when undertaking pigging runs. The CAA had to be informed, as planes flying overhead could conceivably crash ... I guess no-one cared about global warming back then? Andy |
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
|
Gas Pipe into property using old steel pipe.
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Vir Campestris vir.campestr lid scribeth thus On 17/09/2013 00:19, Jethro_uk wrote: On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:04:41 +0100, polygonum wrote: My experiences of gas leaks over the past five to ten years suggests to me that they have absolutely no idea where a huge proportion of gas goes. They might know to the kilowatt hour exactly how much they push down the pipes - and then they lose track of it. When I worked for British Gas "Central Control", we'd vent cubic *kilometres* of gas from offtakes when undertaking pigging runs. The CAA had to be informed, as planes flying overhead could conceivably crash ... I guess no-one cared about global warming back then? Andy How did they manage not to set light to a kilo square gas cloud that would have made an atomic scale bang surely;?.. I'm guessing they actually flared it off rather than releasing it unburnt but that is just a guess. Tim |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:37 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter