All change
 

Another tory U turn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...38/Town-halls-
allowing-solar-farms-over-fears-of-legal-action-minister-says.html

Councils are voting through plans for ?menacing? solar farms that blight
the countryside because they are so afraid of being taken to court by
developers, a minister has admitted.

All change
 

Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but its
been turned into a bit of a learning resource, but of course as it ages who
will pay to keep it up to date one wonders.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Artic" wrote in message
...
Another tory U turn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...38/Town-halls-
allowing-solar-farms-over-fears-of-legal-action-minister-says.html

Councils are voting through plans for ?menacing? solar farms that blight
the countryside because they are so afraid of being taken to court by
developers, a minister has admitted.

All change
 

On 14/07/2013 22:41, Artic wrote:
Another tory U turn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...38/Town-halls-
allowing-solar-farms-over-fears-of-legal-action-minister-says.html

Councils are voting through plans for ?menacing? solar farms that blight
the countryside because they are so afraid of being taken to court by
developers, a minister has admitted.

Complete drivel. Locally, in Somerset, two have recently been turned
down by the planners for sound planning reasons. Planning appeals are
not "Taken to court" but are conducted by an Independent Inspector. Of
course there is the possibility of Judicial Review but it is uncommon in
planning matters.


--
Peter Crosland

All change
 

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource, but of course as it
ages who will pay to keep it up to date one wonders.
Brian

Nobody.
It is unlikely to need any repairs and if it does, it will have a five years
guarantee and the FIT payments will make it self financing anyway. Solar
panels have a life of around 25-30 years.

All change
 

Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Artic" wrote in message
...
Another tory U turn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...38/Town-halls-
allowing-solar-farms-over-fears-of-legal-action-minister-says.html

Councils are voting through plans for ?menacing? solar farms that blight
the countryside because they are so afraid of being taken to court by
developers, a minister has admitted.

All change
 

On 15/07/2013 08:12, harryagain wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource, but of course as it
ages who will pay to keep it up to date one wonders.
Brian

Nobody.
It is unlikely to need any repairs and if it does, it will have a five years
guarantee and the FIT payments will make it self financing anyway. Solar
panels have a life of around 25-30 years.

The FIT assumes a life of 25 years, but very few installations have been
around long enough for anybody to confirm that is realistic. I also
suspect that the suppliers fail to mention that the output will
typically drop by 5% in the first 12 months and an average of about 1% a
year over the expected life.

Colin Bignell

All change
 

harryagain wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote:

a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof [...]
who will pay to keep it up to date one wonders.

Nobody.
It is unlikely to need any repairs

You don't think small boys will throw stones at it and run away?

All change
 

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"harryagain" wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource, but of course as it
ages who will pay to keep it up to date one wonders.
Brian

Nobody.
It is unlikely to need any repairs and if it does, it will have a five
years guarantee and the FIT payments will make it self financing anyway.
Solar panels have a life of around 25-30 years.

Ah, more theft from the rest of us. Mere legalised banditry.

They will be getting £0.15/Kwh.
Normal price for electricity in a year or so.
And they will be reducing their electricity bill to the council tax payer.

So you got your fingers in gear before your brain again.

All change
 

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource, but of course as it
ages who will pay to keep it up to date one wonders.
Brian

Nobody.
It is unlikely to need any repairs and if it does, it will have a five
years guarantee and the FIT payments will make it self financing anyway.

Only if they do last that 25 years. You don't get your investment back
after 5 as you have claimed

Solar panels have a life of around 25-30 years.

so they say

tim

All change
 

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

Brian

It's called common sense.
Acommodity we are short of round here.

All change
 

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

This article isn't about solar panels on roofs.

It's about solar panels in football-pitch sized fields

tim

All change
 

On 15/07/2013 08:44, Brian Gaff wrote:
Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

A similar picture in Germany, where the Green agenda has already
produced some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. They rose by
11% last year alone.

Colin Bignell

All change
 

On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 23:50:30 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource,

How old is "recently"?

I wonder if that learning will be properly balanced. "Sorry, children
the sun isn't shineing today so the white boards or computers aren't
working" or "Sorry children, as the sun hasn't shone for the last
week the School Fish have suffocated as the pump and filter haven't
been able to run".

Provided as part of the learning they include all the costs and
implicatons of intermitantcy, the simple fact at night Solar PV
doesn't produce anything and that "night" in winter starts about an
hour before peak demand maybe some good education will come of it.
But I very much doubt any of the above will be mentioned, just our
solar panels have "saved" x kWhrs of electricity... B-(

--
Cheers
Dave.

All change
 

On 15/07/13 08:57, Andy Burns wrote:
harryagain wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote:

a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof [...]
who will pay to keep it up to date one wonders.

Nobody.
It is unlikely to need any repairs

You don't think small boys will throw stones at it and run away?

visions of compo and clegg.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

All change
 

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:16:37 +0100, harryagain wrote:

They will be getting £0.15/Kwh.

Are you?

The FIT rate they get depends on when the installation was
"completed". I'm still amazed that 50,000 or so Solar PV instalations
where "completed" in a few weeks before the FIT rates dropped was it
late last year or was it the year before.

They are generator, why should they be paid retail rates? Pay the
wholesale rate, yes I know that bounces up and down massively in half
hour intervals but there will be a longer term mean or insist on
"smart metering".

--
Cheers
Dave.

All change
 

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 23:50:30 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource,

How old is "recently"?

I wonder if that learning will be properly balanced. "Sorry, children
the sun isn't shineing today so the white boards or computers aren't
working" or "Sorry children, as the sun hasn't shone for the last
week the School Fish have suffocated as the pump and filter haven't
been able to run".

Provided as part of the learning they include all the costs and
implicatons of intermitantcy, the simple fact at night Solar PV
doesn't produce anything and that "night" in winter starts about an
hour before peak demand maybe some good education will come of it.
But I very much doubt any of the above will be mentioned, just our
solar panels have "saved" x kWhrs of electricity... B-(


Well as you don't understand intemittancy or renewable energy either you
wouldn't be a good teacher then?

All change
 

harryagain wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 23:50:30 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource,
How old is "recently"?

I wonder if that learning will be properly balanced. "Sorry, children
the sun isn't shineing today so the white boards or computers aren't
working" or "Sorry children, as the sun hasn't shone for the last
week the School Fish have suffocated as the pump and filter haven't
been able to run".

Provided as part of the learning they include all the costs and
implicatons of intermitantcy, the simple fact at night Solar PV
doesn't produce anything and that "night" in winter starts about an
hour before peak demand maybe some good education will come of it.
But I very much doubt any of the above will be mentioned, just our
solar panels have "saved" x kWhrs of electricity... B-(


Well as you don't understand intemittancy or renewable energy either you
wouldn't be a good teacher then?


Tell us again how your lights are powered after dark, Harry?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

All change
 

On 15/07/2013 20:13, John Williamson wrote:
harryagain wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 23:50:30 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource,
How old is "recently"?

I wonder if that learning will be properly balanced. "Sorry, children
the sun isn't shineing today so the white boards or computers aren't
working" or "Sorry children, as the sun hasn't shone for the last
week the School Fish have suffocated as the pump and filter haven't
been able to run".

Provided as part of the learning they include all the costs and
implicatons of intermitantcy, the simple fact at night Solar PV
doesn't produce anything and that "night" in winter starts about an
hour before peak demand maybe some good education will come of it.
But I very much doubt any of the above will be mentioned, just our
solar panels have "saved" x kWhrs of electricity... B-(


Well as you don't understand intemittancy or renewable energy either
you wouldn't be a good teacher then?

Tell us again how your lights are powered after dark, Harry?

Battery?

All change
 

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 23:50:30 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Don't get it, a recently built school has a solar farm on its roof, but
its been turned into a bit of a learning resource,
How old is "recently"?

I wonder if that learning will be properly balanced. "Sorry, children
the sun isn't shineing today so the white boards or computers aren't
working" or "Sorry children, as the sun hasn't shone for the last
week the School Fish have suffocated as the pump and filter haven't
been able to run".

Provided as part of the learning they include all the costs and
implicatons of intermitantcy, the simple fact at night Solar PV
doesn't produce anything and that "night" in winter starts about an
hour before peak demand maybe some good education will come of it.
But I very much doubt any of the above will be mentioned, just our
solar panels have "saved" x kWhrs of electricity... B-(


Well as you don't understand intemittancy or renewable energy either you
wouldn't be a good teacher then?
Tell us again how your lights are powered after dark, Harry?


I have posted links many times. Clearly you don't read them.

All change
 

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:19:01 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

This article isn't about solar panels on roofs.

It's about solar panels in football-pitch sized fields

Fields don't move and are inpinged by the suns rays.

Quite a few fields of solar panels in France and Italy are covered in solar
panels.


--

All change
 

In message , The Other Mike
writes
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:19:01 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

This article isn't about solar panels on roofs.

It's about solar panels in football-pitch sized fields

Fields don't move and are inpinged by the suns rays.

Quite a few fields of solar panels in France and Italy are covered in solar
panels.

As has been said, it is all about the money...

Crops up:-) in the agricultural press a bit. One issue with leasing
sites for phone masts etc. is the *roll over nature* of the leases.



--
Tim Lamb

All change
 

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:21:15 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

Quite a few fields of solar panels in France and Italy are covered in solar
panels.

You mean the panels are two deep? That's a clever trick.

Yes, they swap the lower ones to the top when no one's looking

as you can tell I'd make a crap proof reader :)
--

All change
 

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Other Mike
writes
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:19:01 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

This article isn't about solar panels on roofs.

It's about solar panels in football-pitch sized fields

Fields don't move and are inpinged by the suns rays.

Quite a few fields of solar panels in France and Italy are covered in
solar
panels.

As has been said, it is all about the money...

Crops up:-) in the agricultural press a bit. One issue with leasing sites
for phone masts etc. is the *roll over nature* of the leases.

Apparently there are some new ones comiong out that are semi-transparent.
Intended for conservatories and growing stuff underneath.
Only 12% light reduction.

All change
 

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Other Mike
writes
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:19:01 +0100, "tim....."

wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

This article isn't about solar panels on roofs.

It's about solar panels in football-pitch sized fields

Fields don't move and are inpinged by the suns rays.

Quite a few fields of solar panels in France and Italy are covered in
solar
panels.

As has been said, it is all about the money...

Crops up:-) in the agricultural press a bit. One issue with leasing sites
for phone masts etc. is the *roll over nature* of the leases.

Apparently there are some new ones comiong out that are semi-transparent.
Intended for conservatories and growing stuff underneath.
Only 12% light reduction.

Which surely must mean that they're only about 5% efficient then ? What's
the point of that ? It's a total waste of resources to even manufacture them
....

Arfa

All change
 

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Other Mike
writes
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:19:01 +0100, "tim....."

wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Just a thought. a friend returned from a touring holiday in France
and
mentioned that over there if it doesnot move and can get some sun it
probably has solar cells on it.. Seems that this is a common problem!

This article isn't about solar panels on roofs.

It's about solar panels in football-pitch sized fields

Fields don't move and are inpinged by the suns rays.

Quite a few fields of solar panels in France and Italy are covered in
solar
panels.

As has been said, it is all about the money...

Crops up:-) in the agricultural press a bit. One issue with leasing
sites for phone masts etc. is the *roll over nature* of the leases.

Apparently there are some new ones comiong out that are semi-transparent.
Intended for conservatories and growing stuff underneath.
Only 12% light reduction.

Which surely must mean that they're only about 5% efficient then ? What's
the point of that ? It's a total waste of resources to even manufacture
them ...

The "normal" ones are between 10 and 15% efficient. When the incoming energy
is free, it's less important.
It does mean they have to be bigger if less efficient. But then the less
efficient ones are cheaper.
There are 40% efficient ones in the laboratory apparently.

The transparent ones mean that the space beneath is still illuminated so
they can be used to replace glass.
Conservatories, greenhouses etc.

You can have windows that generate electricity.

All change
 

On 17/07/2013 01:36, Arfa Daily wrote:


Apparently there are some new ones comiong out that are semi-transparent.
Intended for conservatories and growing stuff underneath.
Only 12% light reduction.

Which surely must mean that they're only about 5% efficient then ?
What's the point of that ? It's a total waste of resources to even
manufacture them ...

How do you work that out?

All change
 

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 07:46:26 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Intended for conservatories and growing stuff underneath.
Only 12% light reduction.

Which surely must mean that they're only about 5% efficient then ?

How do you work that out?

Well if there is only a 12% reduction of light the *maximum* energy
that can be available as electricity is 12% of the light energy
arriving making the gross assumption of a 100%, loss less,
conversion.

Being generous on conversion effciency and assuming you target the
part of the spectrum that actually gets absorbed you might get 50% of
that 12% as electricty, near as damn it 5% overall.

--
Cheers
Dave.

All change
 

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 07:46:26 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Intended for conservatories and growing stuff underneath.
Only 12% light reduction.
Which surely must mean that they're only about 5% efficient then ?
How do you work that out?

Well if there is only a 12% reduction of light the *maximum* energy
that can be available as electricity is 12% of the light energy
arriving making the gross assumption of a 100%, loss less,
conversion.

Being generous on conversion effciency and assuming you target the
part of the spectrum that actually gets absorbed you might get 50% of
that 12% as electricty, near as damn it 5% overall.

2% efficiency at the moment, with a claimed possibility of 12% Real Soon
Now (tm)

http://mitei.mit.edu/news/transparent-solar-cells

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

All change
 

On 17/07/2013 11:01, John Williamson wrote:

2% efficiency at the moment, with a claimed possibility of 12% Real Soon
Now (tm)

http://mitei.mit.edu/news/transparent-solar-cells



I don't think they are the ones you can get for transparent roofs ATM.
they are more translucent than transparent.

You may also notice that the ones in the link are active in the none
visible region and it doesn't matter how much visible light passes.

All change
 

Nightjar wrote:

A similar picture in Germany, where the Green agenda has already
produced some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. They rose by
11% last year alone.

Very odd people the Germans. In less than a century they've produced
hordes of two entirely different types of nutters.

Bill

All change
 

On 17/07/13 19:46, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

A similar picture in Germany, where the Green agenda has already
produced some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. They rose
by 11% last year alone.

Very odd people the Germans. In less than a century they've produced
hordes of two entirely different types of nutters.

No. exactly the same type of nutter.

Bill


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.