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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#41
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Super heavy snow?
On Jan 27, 9:37*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote: Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint.. that doesn't follow at ALL. easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure. And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it. [1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing. Masonry walls stand by gravity so it makes little difference. In any event the raking/cut would only be around 30mm. |
#42
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Super heavy snow?
Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint. Plenty of companies eager to sell them, just Google cantilever carport: http://www.diycarports.co.uk/cantile...ort_prices.php http://www.windsealdoubleglazing.co....ercarport2.htm http://123v.com/coppermine/displayim...=1/pid=32.html We use hilti fixings for supporting our cantilever carport beams. These not only support the carport but are also capable of coping with high winds and heavy snowfalls. http://www.diycarports.co.uk/cantile...ifications.php The canopy has been tested at the University of Lancashire in Preston, to a snow loading of 1690kg. And to a wind load of 146mph, far in excess of whatever is likely to occur. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Plant amazing Acers. |
#43
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Super heavy snow?
On 28/01/2013 07:44, harry wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:37 pm, John Rumm wrote: On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote: Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint. that doesn't follow at ALL. easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure. And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it. [1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing. Masonry walls stand by gravity so it makes little difference. Actually it makes quite a significant difference. Pulling a brick out with mortar on all sides is far harder than pulling out one that has a section of mortar above it removed and replaced with something that is ductile and self lubricating. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#44
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Super heavy snow?
On 28/01/2013 07:41, harry wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:20 pm, "dennis@home" wrote: On 27/01/2013 12:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Owain wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...use-caves-in-u... which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it. Gable ends aren't usually load bearing. The roof is supported at the ends of the trussed rafters. Sometimes the floor is supported but not always. You are a half wit. Hello pot, meet kettle. Traditional houses are load bearing by reason of the purlins. Which bit of the phrase "trussed rafters" above did you not understand? Also note that traditional purlin layouts leave a diamond section at the top of a gable unloaded. Only in houses with trussed roofs are they not. Even then the gable is supposed to be tied to the roof structure. It may have a few straps, but it does not add significant structural strength. The tops of gable walls can be quite weak when subjected to lateral loads. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#45
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Super heavy snow?
Owain wrote:
And another one, in Corby, Northants. http://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/...snow-1-4725455 That sort of design always strikes me as weak. For not much extra cost, you could put in some uprights tied into the wall top and bottom, and use these to take the torque, reducing the lateral loading on the wall at the top. Of course, if the wall were reinforced concrete, you'd just need to tie the fixings into the reinforcement. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#46
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Super heavy snow?
Owain wrote:
And another one, in Corby, Northants. http://northantstelegraph.co.uk/comm...snow-1-4725455 http://goo.gl/maps/Bs4Jj Didn't look as ridiculously wide as the Barnsley one, but there wasn't that much snow on either of them (judging by nearby roofs) wonder if the cowboys will stop fitting them to single storey gable ends? |
#47
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Super heavy snow?
Andy Burns wrote:
Owain wrote: And another one, in Corby, Northants. http://northantstelegraph.co.uk/comm...snow-1-4725455 http://goo.gl/maps/Bs4Jj Didn't look as ridiculously wide as the Barnsley one, but there wasn't that much snow on either of them (judging by nearby roofs) wonder if the cowboys will stop fitting them to single storey gable ends? I had a shufi at some fitting insturctions on line which seem to call for either 900mm of brickwork above the port or the addition of vertical braces (as visible in that Google maps link). It looks like manufactures should be seriously rethinking their fitting advice. I wonder who'll pay up? Home-owners insurance, the car port fitters or the manufacturers? Tim |
#48
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Super heavy snow?
En el artículo
oups.com, Owain escribió: And another one, in Corby, Northants. http://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/...ork-partially- collapses-under-weight-of-snow-1-4725455 With two satellite dishes, too.. bet you-know-who will be on the 'phone to report it real soon now. -- (\_/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#49
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Super heavy snow?
On Jan 28, 8:19*am, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/01/2013 07:44, harry wrote: On Jan 27, 9:37 pm, John Rumm wrote: On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote: Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint. |
#50
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Super heavy snow?
jgharston wrote:
ARW wrote: South Yorkshire Housing not Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes), my mistake. Akh! That's annoying. I'm a former board member and reserve performance auditor. I'm going to have some questions to ask at the next meeting. Don't forget to report back. -- Adam |
#51
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Super heavy snow?
On 28/01/2013 07:41, harry wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:20 pm, "dennis@home" wrote: On 27/01/2013 12:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Owain wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...use-caves-in-u... which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it. Gable ends aren't usually load bearing. The roof is supported at the ends of the trussed rafters. Sometimes the floor is supported but not always. You are a half wit. Traditional houses are load bearing by reason of the purlins. Why do you think I specifically said trussed rafters you idiot. Only in houses with trussed roofs are they not. Even then the gable is supposed to be tied to the roof structure. |
#52
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Super heavy snow?
On Monday, January 28, 2013 4:14:17 PM UTC, harry wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:19*am, John Rumm wrote: On 28/01/2013 07:44, harry wrote: On Jan 27, 9:37 pm, John Rumm wrote: On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote: Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint. that doesn't follow at ALL. easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure. And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it. [1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing. Masonry walls stand by gravity so it makes little difference. Actually it makes quite a significant difference. Pulling a brick out with mortar on all sides is far harder than pulling out one that has a section of mortar above it removed and replaced with something that is ductile and self lubricating. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | * * * * *Internode Ltd - *http://www.internode.co.uk* * * * * *| |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *| \================================================= ================/ The bricks have not pulled out. The whole wall has tipped over. It was not heavy enough to counter the weight of snow. If it had been a two storey building there would have been no problem. Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support. |
#53
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Super heavy snow?
fred wrote:
On Monday, January 28, 2013 4:14:17 PM UTC, harry wrote: On Jan 28, 8:19 am, John Rumm wrote: If it had been a two storey building there would have been no problem. Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support. But, judging by the Streetview images, it had been fitted with the extra bracing down the wall so probably was fitted as per manufacturer's instructions. Tim |
#54
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Super heavy snow?
fred wrote:
Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support. But it had an extended bracket below. |
#55
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Super heavy snow?
Andy Burns wrote:
fred wrote: Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support. But it had an extended bracket below. Both of the collapsed ones might have survived if fitted on such long brackets all the way along e.g. http://123v.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/Carports/normal_cantilever_carport_with_swan_neck_bungalow_ brackets.jpg |
#56
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Super heavy snow?
"Andy Burns" wrote in message news Andy Burns wrote: fred wrote: Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support. But it had an extended bracket below. Both of the collapsed ones might have survived if fitted on such long brackets all the way along e.g. http://123v.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/Carports/normal_cantilever_carport_with_swan_neck_bungalow_ brackets.jpg I don't see the point in going to that much trouble to cantilever it when the carport normally has the outer end at the fence and the fence is where the support verticals would be. |
#57
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Super heavy snow?
On Jan 28, 7:44*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:37*pm, John Rumm wrote: On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote: Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint. |
#58
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Super heavy snow?
On Jan 29, 8:46*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: fred wrote: Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support. But it had an extended bracket below. Both of the collapsed ones might have survived if fitted on such long brackets all the way along e.g. http://123v.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/Carports/normal_ca... Yes, that is a better arrangement. But less visually attractive. |
#59
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Super heavy snow?
On Jan 30, 10:30*am, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:44*am, harry wrote: On Jan 27, 9:37*pm, John Rumm wrote: On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote: Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint. that doesn't follow at ALL. easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure. And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it. [1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing. Masonry walls stand by gravity so it makes little difference. It does when you have a car port applying a turning moment to the wall. MBQ But the fulcrum is outside of that moment. The fulcrum is on the lower edge of the brackets. So the slot cut is neither here nor there. In any event no simple masonry can withstand significant tension forces. Which is why it fell down. The tensile forces exceeded the compressive (ie gravity) ones |
#60
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Super heavy snow?
"harry" wrote in message ... On Jan 29, 8:46 pm, Andy Burns wrote: Andy Burns wrote: fred wrote: Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support. But it had an extended bracket below. Both of the collapsed ones might have survived if fitted on such long brackets all the way along e.g. http://123v.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/Carports/normal_ca... Yes, that is a better arrangement. But less visually attractive. MUCH worse than 50 or 75mm posts on the outer edge IMO, particularly when the outer edge is on the fence line so there is no need to have a cantilever so she who must be obeyed cant run into them. |
#61
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Super heavy snow?
Tim+ wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792 "A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has said." I wonder if Yorkshire Carports-R-Us also fit balconies? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-21474074 "West Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service said the injured people had been standing on the balcony when it collapsed and they fell about 10ft (3m) to a patio below." |
#62
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Super heavy snow?
On 16/02/2013 19:47, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim+ wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792 "A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has said." I wonder if Yorkshire Carports-R-Us also fit balconies? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-21474074 "West Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service said the injured people had been standing on the balcony when it collapsed and they fell about 10ft (3m) to a patio below." That's a shelf and you shouldn't stand on shelves. |
#63
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Super heavy snow?
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:10:31 -0800 (PST), Owain wrote:
http://www.brighouseecho.co.uk/news/...te-over-hotel- scheme-1-4777760 And how many Cassa Hotel's on Elland Road, Brighouse owned by a Jack McDaid are there? -- Cheers Dave. |
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