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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

I am trying to get the best economies with an acceptable level of
comfort, so a bit of a balancing act. Using a Baxi combi boiler with 14
radiators. (some rads turned off) (house occupied 24/7)
In general terms I can take lower temps during the day but raise them at
night which I have done via the time control/stat.
Now as I can see there are 3 elements.

1. The temp controls at the boiler (low/med/high)for controlling the
water and another for the rads.
2. The thermostat on the time control box.
3. TVR valves

Is there a `best way` to adjust anything eg is it better to have a lower
temp setting at the boiler or a higher one and let the stat control the
heat.
As far as the TVR valves are concerned I have them mid point in bedrooms
etc but full on in the main lounge (where the stat is)
Short of getting uncomfortable is there a `best` set up for economy use
in general terms accepting we all have different comfort levels.
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

In article ,
ss writes:
I am trying to get the best economies with an acceptable level of
comfort, so a bit of a balancing act. Using a Baxi combi boiler with 14
radiators. (some rads turned off) (house occupied 24/7)
In general terms I can take lower temps during the day but raise them at
night which I have done via the time control/stat.
Now as I can see there are 3 elements.

1. The temp controls at the boiler (low/med/high)for controlling the
water and another for the rads.
2. The thermostat on the time control box.
3. TVR valves

Is there a `best way` to adjust anything eg is it better to have a lower
temp setting at the boiler or a higher one and let the stat control the
heat.


If it's a condensing boiler, the most efficient position is to
set the boiler temperature as low as you can, which still manages
to keeps the rooms at correct temperature and never quite causes
the room stat to click off.

The trouble with this is that you will have to adjust the boiler
temperature depending on the outside temperature, turning it up
a bit when it's colder outside, and down when it's warmer outside.
Also have to turn it up whilst you are heating the house up from
cold. This is what a weather compensation system does for you
automatically.

A compromise which is not significantly worse than ideal would
be to have the boiler just slightly hotter and have the room stat
only occasionally click off, but would avoid you having to fiddle
with the boiler temperature so often.

If it's not a condensing boiler, the same applies, but you need to
be careful not to run the boiler too low that it starts condensing,
as this will do a non-condensing boiler some serious damage. In
theory, the boiler should protect itself against this by not running
too low, but I don't know that all boilers do.

As far as the TVR valves are concerned I have them mid point in bedrooms
etc but full on in the main lounge (where the stat is)
Short of getting uncomfortable is there a `best` set up for economy use
in general terms accepting we all have different comfort levels.


That sounds fine for the TRVs.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On 23/12/2012 13:36, ss wrote:
I am trying to get the best economies with an acceptable level of
comfort, so a bit of a balancing act. Using a Baxi combi boiler with 14
radiators. (some rads turned off) (house occupied 24/7)
In general terms I can take lower temps during the day but raise them at
night which I have done via the time control/stat.
Now as I can see there are 3 elements.

1. The temp controls at the boiler (low/med/high)for controlling the
water and another for the rads.
2. The thermostat on the time control box.
3. TVR valves

Is there a `best way` to adjust anything eg is it better to have a lower
temp setting at the boiler or a higher one and let the stat control the
heat.
As far as the TVR valves are concerned I have them mid point in bedrooms
etc but full on in the main lounge (where the stat is)
Short of getting uncomfortable is there a `best` set up for economy use
in general terms accepting we all have different comfort levels.


You shouldn't really have a TRV at all in the room where the room stat
is. That should be the slowest room to heat up so that the TRVs in the
other rooms have all done their thing before the stat turns the boiler
off. [May possibly not be the best place for the room stat].
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On 23/12/2012 14:19, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
If it's a condensing boiler, the most efficient position is to
set the boiler temperature as low as you can, which still manages
to keeps the rooms at correct temperature and never quite causes
the room stat to click off.


I`ll give that a go and see how it feels/costs as I am currently
monitoring gas usage on a daily basis until I get a good compromise.
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 20:01:46 +0000, ss wrote:

If it's a condensing boiler, the most efficient position is to
set the boiler temperature as low as you can, which still manages
to keeps the rooms at correct temperature and never quite causes
the room stat to click off.


I`ll give that a go and see how it feels/costs as I am currently
monitoring gas usage on a daily basis until I get a good compromise.


The daily weather will have too much influence, it will tend to mask the
effects of any changes you make to the settings. Much better to try
settings for a week at a time and record the gas use per week, perhaps
making a note about the weather for each week, temperature and wind
mainly.

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Cheers
Dave.





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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On 23/12/2012 13:36, ss wrote:
In general terms I can take lower temps during the day but raise them at
night which I have done via the time control/stat.


Curious. We turn the heating off at night. I have no objection to
STWNFI cuddling up

besides which we have a decent duvet, and rarely get cold in bed.

Andy
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On 23/12/2012 20:48, Dave Liquorice wrote:
The daily weather will have too much influence, it will tend to mask the
effects of any changes you make to the settings. Much better to try
settings for a week at a time and record the gas use per week, perhaps
making a note about the weather for each week, temperature and wind
mainly.


I will move to a weekly reading but to get a feel for some of the
changes I am making I have been monitoring on a daily basis for a couple
of weeks and will for another week and then move to weekly.
So far I have managed to save about 3 kWh per day. I know I can make
some further improvements with draught proofing when I have time and the
dog passes on! I have wooden laminate flooring and want to carpet but as
the dog is on his last legs will wait til then before carpeting.

The house is 10 rooms including 2 toilets plus 2 small hallways and I am
on target to reduce combined bills to approx £1000 per year.....getting
there :-)
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On 23/12/2012 22:43, Andy Champ wrote:
On 23/12/2012 13:36, ss wrote:
In general terms I can take lower temps during the day but raise them at
night which I have done via the time control/stat.


Curious. We turn the heating off at night. I have no objection to STWNFI
cuddling up

besides which we have a decent duvet, and rarely get cold in bed.

Andy


By night I mean from say 6pm -10.30pm :-)
Then it is set to 9C for overnight when the duvet and wife take over.
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On Sunday, December 23, 2012 1:36:06 PM UTC, ss wrote:
I am trying to get the best economies with an acceptable level of
comfort, so a bit of a balancing act. Using a Baxi combi boiler with 14
radiators. (some rads turned off) (house occupied 24/7)
In general terms I can take lower temps during the day but raise them at
night which I have done via the time control/stat.
Now as I can see there are 3 elements.
1. The temp controls at the boiler (low/med/high)for controlling the
water and another for the rads.
2. The thermostat on the time control box.
3. TVR valves
Is there a `best way` to adjust anything eg is it better to have a lower
temp setting at the boiler or a higher one and let the stat control the
heat.
As far as the TVR valves are concerned I have them mid point in bedrooms
etc but full on in the main lounge (where the stat is)
Short of getting uncomfortable is there a `best` set up for economy use
in general terms accepting we all have different comfort levels.


You'll get far more payback by putting your time/effort into draughtproofing and insulating


NT
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

In article ,
ss writes:
On 23/12/2012 20:48, Dave Liquorice wrote:
The daily weather will have too much influence, it will tend to mask the
effects of any changes you make to the settings. Much better to try
settings for a week at a time and record the gas use per week, perhaps
making a note about the weather for each week, temperature and wind
mainly.


I will move to a weekly reading but to get a feel for some of the
changes I am making I have been monitoring on a daily basis for a couple
of weeks and will for another week and then move to weekly.
So far I have managed to save about 3 kWh per day. I know I can make
some further improvements with draught proofing when I have time and the
dog passes on! I have wooden laminate flooring and want to carpet but as
the dog is on his last legs will wait til then before carpeting.

The house is 10 rooms including 2 toilets plus 2 small hallways and I am
on target to reduce combined bills to approx £1000 per year.....getting
there :-)


I'm less that that here (detached, 7 rooms), but I don't any longer
have the heating or hot water switch itself on automatically - I switch
on manually when required. In particular, in the morning I like it to
be cold, as I do 30 mins on the exercise bike, and that's best when the
living room is about 16C (and it actually increases the living room temp
by about 1.1C). When I'm working at home, I just heat one room using an
air-sourced heat pump. I can find I haven't used the heating all day
quite often, even in the winter, in which case there is a heater in the
bedroom if it's cold when I'm thinking of going up to bed (I do like a
warm bedroom).

However, I can remotely turn on/off the heating, and I use that when
I'm coming home.

BTW, I think there should be a £10/unit FIT for exercise bikes ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]


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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls


To the original poster,

Have you thought about replacing the timeswitch AND the wall thermostat
with a Programmable thermostat?

In your existing system, you have heating off vs Heating on at XX°C.

You have no way of having different temperatures during the course of 24
hours or over a week to suit the lifestyle of the family.

I have 2 programmable thermostats, the SALUS ST620, one for upstairs
zone on 7 rads, and one for downstairs on 7 rads

At the moment i have it set to:

heat house to 18.5°C from 6.00am to 7.00am We get up at 6.30am and
depart for work at 7.30am.

Heat house to 5°C from 6.30am till 5.00pm. No point heating house when
we are all at work, but we want frost protection at 5° to avoid burst pipes.

Then we have heat to 18.5°C from 5.00pm till 10.00pm. I leave work at
5.00pm, arriving home at 5.30pm.

Then heat to 14°C from 10.00pm to 6.00am Upstairs only and 5.0° frost
protection downstairs only as then we are all upstairs in bed, covered
by duvets and cuddling wifey and there is no one downstairs.

The Salus ST620 are only 60 quid and are very flexible.

It has a daily mode, a weekdays (5) and Weekends (2) mode and a 7 day
week mode. You have can up to 4 set points per day.

It also has a holiday mode so it then turns into a frost protection
thermostat when activated before you go on Holiday.

My last house was a 2 bedder (Which I still own and now rent out), and
my new house is a 5 bedder. I pay less in gas each year for my 5 bedder
than my tenant does for his 2 bedder.

The Programmable thermostats allow you to use gas in a much smarter way
more closely matching ones family's lifestyle.
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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On 23/12/2012 13:36, ss wrote:
I am trying to get the best economies with an acceptable level of
comfort, so a bit of a balancing act. Using a Baxi combi boiler with 14
radiators. (some rads turned off) (house occupied 24/7)
In general terms I can take lower temps during the day but raise them at
night which I have done via the time control/stat.
Now as I can see there are 3 elements.

1. The temp controls at the boiler (low/med/high)for controlling the
water and another for the rads.
2. The thermostat on the time control box.
3. TVR valves

Is there a `best way` to adjust anything eg is it better to have a lower
temp setting at the boiler or a higher one and let the stat control the
heat.
As far as the TVR valves are concerned I have them mid point in bedrooms
etc but full on in the main lounge (where the stat is)
Short of getting uncomfortable is there a `best` set up for economy use
in general terms accepting we all have different comfort levels.



As far as hot water is concerned, if you have the hot water too hot, the
DHW HE in the boiler will scale up and so will your hot water pipes.

If you have the hot water temperature too low, you can be at risk of
catching legionnaires disease. So most hot water is set at 55°C to 60°C
to avoid either scaling or legionnaires.

With regards to the radiator water temperature, what you need to ensure
is that the returning water temperature is less than 60°C for the
condensing to take place and hence improve efficiency.

so the flow radiator water temperature should be adjusted such that
after allowing the temperature drop across the rads the returning
temperature is at say 55 °C or less.

This is where balancing the rads is very important in a condensing
boiler system.

I have all my rads adjusted to a temperature drop of 15° which means i
can have a flow output temperature of 65° and the returning temperature
is 50°C

My rads are deliberately oversized for the rooms so I can have lower
flow temperatures as that also reduces risk of burns to kids and elderly
as well as ensuring condensing as much as possible.

Radiator Balancing is easily done, there are guides in how to do it.

Regards

Stephen.
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On 24/12/2012 10:48, Stephen H wrote:
It has a daily mode, a weekdays (5) and Weekends (2) mode and a 7 day
week mode. You have can up to 4 set points per day.


My apologies for wording, The system I have does indeed have a
programmables thermostat, its a drayton and allows various settings
although it controls all for the full house, thats not too much of a
problem as we only use the loo and 1 bedroom upstair so all the other
rads are off upstair (frost setting).
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On 24/12/2012 12:18, ss wrote:
On 24/12/2012 10:48, Stephen H wrote:
It has a daily mode, a weekdays (5) and Weekends (2) mode and a 7 day
week mode. You have can up to 4 set points per day.


My apologies for wording, The system I have does indeed have a
programmables thermostat, its a drayton and allows various settings
although it controls all for the full house, thats not too much of a
problem as we only use the loo and 1 bedroom upstair so all the other
rads are off upstair (frost setting).


In that case the time control box is totally unneccesary considering you
always have nearish instant hot water upon demand and you have a
programmable thermostat that has a clock in it.....


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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On 23/12/2012 22:43, Andy Champ wrote:

STWNFI


OK, I've Googled for it but got nowhere, enlighten me...

--
F



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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

F wrote:

On 23/12/2012 22:43, Andy Champ wrote:

STWNFI


OK, I've Googled for it but got nowhere, enlighten me...


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TBtIO3nMrLQC&lpg=PA165&ots=KleEENziF-&dq=she%20than%20whom%20no%20fairer&pg=PA165#v=one page&q=she%20than%20whom%20no%20fairer&f=false

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Default Best way to set up gas central heating controls

On 24/12/2012 17:07, Andy Burns wrote:
F wrote:

On 23/12/2012 22:43, Andy Champ wrote:

STWNFI


OK, I've Googled for it but got nowhere, enlighten me...


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TBtIO3nMrLQC&lpg=PA165&ots=KleEENziF-&dq=she%20than%20whom%20no%20fairer&pg=PA165#v=one page&q=she%20than%20whom%20no%20fairer&f=false


Ah, what a let down! I had got as far as She That Would Not F???
Indoors, but couldn't think of anything for the F...

--
F



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On 24/12/2012 16:15, Stephen H wrote:
On 24/12/2012 12:18, ss wrote:
On 24/12/2012 10:48, Stephen H wrote:
It has a daily mode, a weekdays (5) and Weekends (2) mode and a 7 day
week mode. You have can up to 4 set points per day.


My apologies for wording, The system I have does indeed have a
programmables thermostat, its a drayton and allows various settings
although it controls all for the full house, thats not too much of a
problem as we only use the loo and 1 bedroom upstair so all the other
rads are off upstair (frost setting).


In that case the time control box is totally unneccesary considering you
always have nearish instant hot water upon demand and you have a
programmable thermostat that has a clock in it.....


Slowly getting it sorted, moved into the house 18 months ago and with
all the diy the heating wasnt a priority other than it worked, it took
me ages to work out the time clock/thermo as my previous system had
seperates. The bill for this quarter last year was £510 (gas & elec)
this year I estimate £410 so taking into account price increases its
going the right way. Better draught proofing and carpets should complete
the job got cheap and badly laid wooden stuff on all downstair rooms.
Having taken daily readings for a couple of weeks now I am confident of
getting my combined bills down to £1000 for the year, at least thats my
target.
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