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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
I have used Pan in the past under Linux.
IIRC for a while it was not part of the official build. Now it seems to be back. Fine - it was a pretty good news reader. However having installed the latest version and configured my NNTP server I now can't find how to get back into the configuration. A bit like these newer browsers who hide the tool bars and configuration menus. However there is usually a small icon somewhere which gives you access. With Pan I've searched the whole screen and can't find anything - no choice to add a new NNTP server, change any options, anything. Google is not currently my friend. Is there some arcane key sequence or am I missing something obvious? TIA Dave R P.S. this has a haunting familiarity so I may have been (unsuccessfully) down this route before. Which could explain why I am still using Windows Mail as a newsreader. -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#2
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:23:40 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote:
I have used Pan in the past under Linux. IIRC for a while it was not part of the official build. Now it seems to be back. Fine - it was a pretty good news reader. However having installed the latest version and configured my NNTP server I now can't find how to get back into the configuration. Edit Edit Newservers? -- Terry Fields |
#3
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:23:40 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote:
I have used Pan in the past under Linux. IIRC for a while it was not part of the official build. Now it seems to be back. Fine - it was a pretty good news reader. However having installed the latest version and configured my NNTP server I now can't find how to get back into the configuration. A bit like these newer browsers who hide the tool bars and configuration menus. However there is usually a small icon somewhere which gives you access. With Pan I've searched the whole screen and can't find anything - no choice to add a new NNTP server, change any options, anything. Google is not currently my friend. Is there some arcane key sequence or am I missing something obvious? TIA Dave R P.S. this has a haunting familiarity so I may have been (unsuccessfully) down this route before. Which could explain why I am still using Windows Mail as a newsreader. Is: EditEdit News Servers(select server)Edit what you need? Chris -- Remove prejudice to reply. |
#4
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 00:46:56 +0000, Bill wrote:
Can Pan be set to thread, but still put the most recent posts at the top, or bottom? Yes, that's how I use it. I run in View Layout Tabbed Layout, and the sequence is to click on the Subject tab then click on the Date tab - you might have to click twice on the latter if it's in the wrong order. HTH -- Terry Fields |
#5
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
"Terry Fields" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:23:40 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: I have used Pan in the past under Linux. IIRC for a while it was not part of the official build. Now it seems to be back. Fine - it was a pretty good news reader. However having installed the latest version and configured my NNTP server I now can't find how to get back into the configuration. Edit Edit Newservers? My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#6
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote:
"Terry Fields" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:23:40 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: I have used Pan in the past under Linux. IIRC for a while it was not part of the official build. Now it seems to be back. Fine - it was a pretty good news reader. However having installed the latest version and configured my NNTP server I now can't find how to get back into the configuration. Edit Edit Newservers? My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". -- Terry Fields |
#7
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
"Terry Fields" wrote in message ... On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: "Terry Fields" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:23:40 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: I have used Pan in the past under Linux. IIRC for a while it was not part of the official build. Now it seems to be back. Fine - it was a pretty good news reader. However having installed the latest version and configured my NNTP server I now can't find how to get back into the configuration. Edit Edit Newservers? My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". Will check once I get the darn PC up and running again - thanks. -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:23:40 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote:
I have used Pan in the past So have I - but still using 'old' Pan, so can't help with the question. But there is an active Pan newsgroup: gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.users -- /\/\aurice (Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email) |
#9
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:09:04 +0000, Terry Fields wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: "Terry Fields" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:23:40 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: I have used Pan in the past under Linux. IIRC for a while it was not part of the official build. Now it seems to be back. Fine - it was a pretty good news reader. However having installed the latest version and configured my NNTP server I now can't find how to get back into the configuration. Edit Edit Newservers? My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". Now here's a wierd thing. If I have Pan as just a window on part of the desktop then this doesn't work. If I make Pan full screen (maximise) then the mouse over does show the menu bar. Thanks - I think I can now manage but I am less than impressed. This from Pan under Ubuntu. |
#10
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On 24/12/12 20:44, David wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:09:04 +0000, Terry Fields wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: "Terry Fields" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:23:40 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: I have used Pan in the past under Linux. IIRC for a while it was not part of the official build. Now it seems to be back. Fine - it was a pretty good news reader. However having installed the latest version and configured my NNTP server I now can't find how to get back into the configuration. Edit Edit Newservers? My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". Now here's a wierd thing. If I have Pan as just a window on part of the desktop then this doesn't work. If I make Pan full screen (maximise) then the mouse over does show the menu bar. Thanks - I think I can now manage but I am less than impressed. This from Pan under Ubuntu. MMM. that sort of behaviour may be a conflict between video drivers, windowing system and PAN. You may find a newer video driver or telling the old one not to be TOO smart may help -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#11
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:44:04 +0000, David wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:09:04 +0000, Terry Fields wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". Now here's a wierd thing. If I have Pan as just a window on part of the desktop then this doesn't work. If I make Pan full screen (maximise) then the mouse over does show the menu bar. Thanks - I think I can now manage but I am less than impressed. This from Pan under Ubuntu. I'm using the same combination; I thought I'd try Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on a lappy that had suffered an irrecoverable Windows crash. It's certainly made the lappy usable (except it suffers from the choppy video problem for which there doesn't seem to be a fix). I'm used to an old version of Agent, and find that Pan has some annoyances. How do you Collapse All Threads? Doing a Get All Headers in Selected Groups automatically collapses all threads on some groups but not others.... You can add a regex to get rid of annoying people, but there's no link to where these are stored. You can modify them individually, if you can find the now-hidden messages.... Still, the 'modern' appearance of Pan and Thunderbird are quite a change. -- Terry Fields |
#12
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On 25/12/12 09:39, Terry Fields wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:44:04 +0000, David wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:09:04 +0000, Terry Fields wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". Now here's a wierd thing. If I have Pan as just a window on part of the desktop then this doesn't work. If I make Pan full screen (maximise) then the mouse over does show the menu bar. Thanks - I think I can now manage but I am less than impressed. This from Pan under Ubuntu. I'm using the same combination; I thought I'd try Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on a lappy that had suffered an irrecoverable Windows crash. It's certainly made the lappy usable (except it suffers from the choppy video problem for which there doesn't seem to be a fix). I'm used to an old version of Agent, and find that Pan has some annoyances. Sometimes you can get manufacturers video drivers, but X-windows is a heavier load than windows XP... How do you Collapse All Threads? Doing a Get All Headers in Selected Groups automatically collapses all threads on some groups but not others.... You can add a regex to get rid of annoying people, but there's no link to where these are stored. You can modify them individually, if you can find the now-hidden messages.... Still, the 'modern' appearance of Pan and Thunderbird are quite a change. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#13
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On 25 Dec 2012 09:39:27 GMT
Terry Fields wrote: I'm using the same combination; I thought I'd try Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on a lappy that had suffered an irrecoverable Windows crash. It's certainly made the lappy usable (except it suffers from the choppy video problem for which there doesn't seem to be a fix). I'm used to an old version of Agent, and find that Pan has some annoyances. How do you Collapse All Threads? Doing a Get All Headers in Selected Groups automatically collapses all threads on some groups but not others.... You can add a regex to get rid of annoying people, but there's no link to where these are stored. You can modify them individually, if you can find the now-hidden messages.... Still, the 'modern' appearance of Pan and Thunderbird are quite a change. I can't comment on Pan or Thunderbird as I don't use them. Have you tried Claws Mail for email and newsgroups? Also Forte Agent v6 has a Wine platinum rating if you prefer that. |
#14
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:29:13 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Sometimes you can get manufacturers video drivers, but X-windows is a heavier load than windows XP... X itself is pretty lightweight, the window managers and desktop managers run on it can be light and minimal or heavier and more elaborate. Xfce and LXDE are lightweight desktop managers with the "classic" (rather dated) look of CDE and W95 respectively, which quite a few people seem to be using these days instead of the "full fat" Gnome, KDE and Unity (Ubuntu) desktops. |
#15
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y,uk.comp.homebuilt
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:23:05 +0000
Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote: On 25 Dec 2012 12:01:29 GMT, Huge wrote: On 2012-12-25, Rob Morley wrote: X itself is pretty lightweight, the window managers and desktop managers run on it can be light and minimal or heavier and more elaborate. Xfce and LXDE are lightweight desktop managers with the "classic" (rather dated) look of CDE and W95 respectively, which quite a few people seem to be using these days instead of the "full fat" Gnome, KDE and Unity (Ubuntu) desktops. Do you blame them? Have you *seen* Gnome3 and Unity? Actually I've been happily using Unity since Ubuntu 12.04 was released. It's not brilliant but I don't think it's as terrible as some people would have you believe. twm FTW. Just installed that, running it now - it really shows how sloppy my mouse control has become, not sure whether I should blame Unity or decrepitude. It's a while since I've used focus follows mouse too. |
#16
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On 25/12/12 12:01, Huge wrote:
On 2012-12-25, Rob Morley wrote: On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:29:13 +0000 The Natural Philosopher wrote: Sometimes you can get manufacturers video drivers, but X-windows is a heavier load than windows XP... Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. It's not called "X-Windows", it's a set of libraries and protocols so it has no "weight" at all, libraries have no size and consume no CPU power when running.? Whoda thunk it! and even then you're wrong. ER what? X itself is pretty lightweight, the window managers and desktop managers run on it can be light and minimal or heavier and more elaborate. Xfce and LXDE are lightweight desktop managers with the "classic" (rather dated) look of CDE and W95 respectively, which quite a few people seem to be using these days instead of the "full fat" Gnome, KDE and Unity (Ubuntu) desktops. none of those are involved when it comes down to shoving a static frame round a moving picture. Its all down to those infinitely small zero CPU libraries that sit between the app and the pixel. You really are a clueless ****. Do you blame them? Have you *seen* Gnome3 and Unity? Yep, and that's why I run Mint. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#17
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:51:50 +0000, Rob Morley wrote:
On 25 Dec 2012 09:39:27 GMT Terry Fields wrote: I'm using the same combination; I thought I'd try Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on a lappy that had suffered an irrecoverable Windows crash. It's certainly made the lappy usable (except it suffers from the choppy video problem for which there doesn't seem to be a fix). I'm used to an old version of Agent, and find that Pan has some annoyances. How do you Collapse All Threads? Doing a Get All Headers in Selected Groups automatically collapses all threads on some groups but not others.... You can add a regex to get rid of annoying people, but there's no link to where these are stored. You can modify them individually, if you can find the now-hidden messages.... Still, the 'modern' appearance of Pan and Thunderbird are quite a change. I can't comment on Pan or Thunderbird as I don't use them. Have you tried Claws Mail for email and newsgroups? Also Forte Agent v6 has a Wine platinum rating if you prefer that. I use Claws Mail for email, but much prefer Pan for Usenet. -- Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#18
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 11:52:33 +0000, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:29:13 +0000 The Natural Philosopher wrote: Sometimes you can get manufacturers video drivers, but X-windows is a heavier load than windows XP... X itself is pretty lightweight, the window managers and desktop managers run on it can be light and minimal or heavier and more elaborate. Xfce and LXDE are lightweight desktop managers with the "classic" (rather dated) look of CDE and W95 respectively, which quite a few people seem to be using these days instead of the "full fat" Gnome, KDE and Unity (Ubuntu) desktops. Yes, I'm using a (slightly tweaked) LXDE, having grown tired of the KDE bloat. -- Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#19
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:44:04 +0000, David wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:09:04 +0000, Terry Fields wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". Now here's a wierd thing. If I have Pan as just a window on part of the desktop then this doesn't work. If I make Pan full screen (maximise) then the mouse over does show the menu bar. I just tried this here; the menu bar is located in the main screen window (the bar at the very top of the screen) rather than in the reduced-size Pan window. -- Terry Fields |
#20
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y,uk.comp.homebuilt
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On 26 Dec 2012 10:33:10 GMT
Terry Fields wrote: On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:44:04 +0000, David wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:09:04 +0000, Terry Fields wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". Now here's a wierd thing. If I have Pan as just a window on part of the desktop then this doesn't work. If I make Pan full screen (maximise) then the mouse over does show the menu bar. I just tried this here; the menu bar is located in the main screen window (the bar at the very top of the screen) rather than in the reduced-size Pan window. That's default behaviour for Unity desktop manager - takes some getting used to. |
#21
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
"Terry Fields" wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:44:04 +0000, David wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:09:04 +0000, Terry Fields wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:15:05 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote: My problem is that I can't find the Edit option - or any other option for that matter. Here, it's hidden until I mouse over the bar at the top that says "Pan: uk.d-i-y". Now here's a wierd thing. If I have Pan as just a window on part of the desktop then this doesn't work. If I make Pan full screen (maximise) then the mouse over does show the menu bar. I just tried this here; the menu bar is located in the main screen window (the bar at the very top of the screen) rather than in the reduced-size Pan window. Thanks - probably explains some of my problems. -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#22
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y,uk.comp.homebuilt
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
In article 20121225125913.748f09ba@hyperion, Rob Morley wrote:
Actually I've been happily using Unity since Ubuntu 12.04 was released. It's not brilliant but I don't think it's as terrible as some people would have you believe. I sorta agree ... Unity is a brave attempt to do something new with the desktop in the hope of making it easier (especially for non-techies) to pick up and use. It's nice to see Canonical trying to improve on the desktop metaphor rather than blindly copying Microsoft as just about everyone else seems to have done ... and a shame they haven't made a better job of it! Unity grew out of Ubuntu Netbook Remix when Canonical (or rather, Mark Shuttleworth) began to be dissatisfied with what the Gnome team were doing. I can see why that was done. It's unfortunate that staying with Gnome 2 wasn't a viable option, but there it is. I don't particularly like the way the dash is evolving, but as long as I can turn off the Amazon links (I'm one of those rare people who has still never bought from Amazon) I don't find it too bad. The global menu, though, on anything but a maximized window, is an piece of arrant lunacy that deserves all the scorn and contempt that it has received. And more. Cheers, Daniel. |
#23
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y,uk.comp.homebuilt
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On 31 Dec 2012 15:09:46 GMT
Huge wrote: On 2012-12-30, Daniel James wrote: In article 20121225125913.748f09ba@hyperion, Rob Morley wrote: Actually I've been happily using Unity since Ubuntu 12.04 was released. It's not brilliant but I don't think it's as terrible as some people would have you believe. I sorta agree ... Unity is a brave attempt to do something new with the desktop in the hope of making it easier (especially for non-techies) to pick up and use. It's nice to see Canonical trying to improve on the desktop metaphor rather than blindly copying Microsoft as just about everyone else seems to have done Skipping lightly over the fact that Microsoft didn't invent it in the first place. I think we probably know that Apple produced the first commercial WIMP interface, borrowing ideas from Xerox PARC, and Microsoft has never invented anything much, but he didn't say that they have, just that the Windows interface has influence (as it's the one with which most people are familiar). |
#24
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On 31 Dec 2012 16:14:19 GMT
Huge wrote: I think we probably know that Apple produced the first commercial WIMP interface, borrowing ideas from Xerox PARC, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ stealing wholesale Did Xerox ever say they couldn't/shouldn't use it? |
#25
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
In article , Huge wrote:
It's nice to see Canonical trying to improve on the desktop metaphor rather than blindly copying Microsoft as just about everyone else seems to have done ... Skipping lightly over the fact that Microsoft didn't invent it in the first place. They did not, indeed. But they have made it ubiquitous, so it is they who are being copied. For better or for worse. Cheers, Daniel. |
#26
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
In article , Huge wrote:
I think we probably know that Apple produced the first commercial WIMP interface, borrowing ideas from Xerox PARC, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ stealing wholesale IIRC Apple (unlike Microsoft) actually licenced (or something) the WIMP design from Xerox. Wikipedia sends me he http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._fact_gladwell which is an interesting article ... but may not be telling the whole story, any of the story, or anything like the true story. Who can say? Anyhow, it would /appear/ that Apple's use of Xerox's ideas has slightly more legitimacy that Microsoft's. -- Cheers, Daniel. |
#27
Posted to uk.comp.homebuilt,uk.d-i-y,uk.comp.homebuilt
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OT - configuring PAN newsreader -Xpost
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:00:10 +0000, Rob Morley wrote:
On 31 Dec 2012 15:09:46 GMT Huge wrote: On 2012-12-30, Daniel James wrote: In article 20121225125913.748f09ba@hyperion, Rob Morley wrote: Actually I've been happily using Unity since Ubuntu 12.04 was released. It's not brilliant but I don't think it's as terrible as some people would have you believe. I sorta agree ... Unity is a brave attempt to do something new with the desktop in the hope of making it easier (especially for non-techies) to pick up and use. It's nice to see Canonical trying to improve on the desktop metaphor rather than blindly copying Microsoft as just about everyone else seems to have done Skipping lightly over the fact that Microsoft didn't invent it in the first place. I think we probably know that Apple produced the first commercial WIMP interface, borrowing ideas from Xerox PARC And didn't Xerox borrow many ideas from NLS, anyway? It's never about "first", only about who has the best marketing department. cheers Jules |
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