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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
Recently received an email from LocksOnline (from whom I've bought
mechanical bits and pieces in the past) attempting to sell me a security system. Details he http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalo...Security_.html The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. Anyone come across this sort of system? Would it actually work? I ask partly because a thread started by Bill Wright in another NG seemed to suggest that SMS message may sometimes not be delivered for several hours. If that were the case, your house may well have been cleared or razed to the ground by the time you knew about it. -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
#2
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:23:52 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:
Recently received an email from LocksOnline (from whom I've bought mechanical bits and pieces in the past) attempting to sell me a security system. Details he http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/ Alert_Pal_Alarm_Camera_Home__Fire___Security_.html The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. Anyone come across this sort of system? Would it actually work? I ask partly because a thread started by Bill Wright in another NG seemed to suggest that SMS message may sometimes not be delivered for several hours. If that were the case, your house may well have been cleared or razed to the ground by the time you knew about it. SMS, like email, is inherently unreliable. It's not guaranteed to work, and in instances where it doesn't the originator may not be aware of it's failure. If you want reliability, you need to add another layer of protocol on top, to deal with acknowledgements and the like. In a previous role, I added a feature to our emergency logging system, to generate an SMS to the assigned engineer. I made it crystal clear at the time this was simply an addition to help the engineer by having the postcode on his phone, rather than having to call into the office for his next call. Of course within 5 seconds they ignored that, and started bitching when SMSs weren't received. Unfortunately for the helpdesk staff, the front page of the training manual I prepared had in block capitals a disclaimer that the SMS feature was not reliable, and they should tell the engineers as much. You can get secure messaging services. Another employer I worked for used "Cognito" which allowed for delivery and read receipts. It was integrated into the ticketing system, so we could work out how efficient the engineers were - they hated it as we could tell exactly when they opened a message. I think it was overlaid on the GSM network. |
#3
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:04:13 GMT, Jethro_uk wrote:
SMS, like email, is inherently unreliable. It's not guaranteed to work, Yep had many occasions of SMS messages taking hours to arrive. Daughter gets quite cross when her messages to arrive on my phone several hours after she sent them. and in instances where it doesn't the originator may not be aware of it's failure. You can turn on the delivery reciept thingy but that doesn't mean the recipient has actually noticed the message let alone read it. I don't have my phone glued to my body, so if a message arrives and I'm not in ear shot it can be quite a while before I notice. Sometimes prompted by daughter "haven't you got my message?"... -- Cheers Dave. |
#5
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:46:15 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:
You can turn on the delivery reciept thingy but that doesn't mean the recipient has actually noticed the message let alone read it. I don't have my phone glued to my body, so if a message arrives and I'm not in ear shot it can be quite a while before I notice. Sometimes prompted by daughter "haven't you got my message?"... IIRC SMS delivery reports are like email delivery/read receipts. An optional extension to the standard which not all servers are guaranteed to honour. And it only takes one server in the hop to not honour it, and it gets lost. This is why I appreciate organisations (like my local council) that email you a receipt when they receive an email - at least you know they've got it. By the same token, I am always a little wary of organisations which don't acknowledge emails (whether direct, or by their irritating "webform" (which must be designed to deter complainants) as all to often you never hear anything from them, and further contact results in "we never got an email" ......). |
#6
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:23:52 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote: Anyone come across this sort of system? Would it actually work? There have been at least two previous incarnations of this idea, and both companies making them have failed. I had one on trial for some time. It worked well enough but as others have said SMS delivery wasn't always quick (although to be fair it usually was, but don't get broken into at midnight on DEC 31st). Using a PAYG SIM also made it difficult to know how much (if any) credit you had left on the card so you could be left with nothing when you needed it (especially as some PAYG SIM's time out after a fixed period). |
#7
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:23:52 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote: Recently received an email from LocksOnline (from whom I've bought mechanical bits and pieces in the past) attempting to sell me a security system. Details he http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalo...Security_.html You can buy the basics of the system, ie the camera and mobile phone part here for £82. I've used the suppliers before and apart from a minor customs gltch it all went very smoothly and arrived in five days. Can't comment on the cam exactly, but text messages round here seem to arrive reliably and promptly. A relative used a similar system (but no photographs) to text him when an intruder alarm was triggered at a house he was renovating nearby. It has worked reliably AFAIK. http://www.chinavasion.com/7w0p/ GSM Remote Security Camera (Quad-band, Motion Detection, Nightvision): Keep an eye on your home or office from anywhere in the world by receiving MMS messages when this ingenious surveillance device detects an intruder. |
#8
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On 17/12/2012 15:23, Roger Mills wrote:
I ask partly because a thread started by Bill Wright in another NG seemed to suggest that SMS message may sometimes not be delivered for several hours. If that were the case, your house may well have been cleared or razed to the ground by the time you knew about it. If you are on the O2 network then it would not be unusual for messages to be delayed from 2 to 24 hours. -- mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk |
#9
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:23:52 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:
The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. Anyone come across this sort of system? Would it actually work? No. It's an utterly useless idea, because I don't have a mobile phone :-) |
#10
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
In message , at 15:23:52 on Mon, 17
Dec 2012, Roger Mills remarked: The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. Anyone come across this sort of system? Would it actually work? I think a chum who lives near me has one. But he was struggling because he didn't have mobile coverage in his premises (for the network it was supplied with). As for delays in SMS delivery - I agree! When it became known about 10 years ago that some emergency services were considering dispatching vehicles with SMS, the response was: "no, just NO". -- Roland Perry |
#11
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
You can get secure messaging services. Another employer I worked for used "Cognito" which allowed for delivery and read receipts. It was integrated into the ticketing system, so we could work out how efficient the engineers were - they hated it as we could tell exactly when they opened a message. I think it was overlaid on the GSM network. COGNETO! I had one of those in a previous life and I've been wracking my brain for years trying to remember what it was called. I think we had them before we got Band III radios installed in our cars. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
#12
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:11:55 +0000, Graham. wrote:
You can get secure messaging services. Another employer I worked for used "Cognito" which allowed for delivery and read receipts. It was integrated into the ticketing system, so we could work out how efficient the engineers were - they hated it as we could tell exactly when they opened a message. I think it was overlaid on the GSM network. COGNETO! I had one of those in a previous life and I've been wracking my brain for years trying to remember what it was called. I think we had them before we got Band III radios installed in our cars. Ah, the dangers of hearing a word, and never seeing it written down |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.telecom.mobile
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On 17/12/2012 15:23, Roger Mills wrote:
Recently received an email from LocksOnline (from whom I've bought mechanical bits and pieces in the past) attempting to sell me a security system. Details he http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalo...Security_.html The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. Anyone come across this sort of system? Would it actually work? I ask partly because a thread started by Bill Wright in another NG seemed to suggest that SMS message may sometimes not be delivered for several hours. If that were the case, your house may well have been cleared or razed to the ground by the time you knew about it. Seems London Fire Brigade is considering twitter to report fires... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20754978 Is that any more reliable than SMS? I do appreciate the issues about gathering extra information mentioned in story. But the inherent one-wayness strikes me as a problem - and the inherent interaction is most often a significant advantage of an ordinary phone call. -- Rod |
#14
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
Roger Mills wrote:
I ask partly because a thread started by Bill Wright in another NG seemed to suggest that SMS message may sometimes not be delivered for several hours. If that were the case, your house may well have been cleared or razed to the ground by the time you knew about it. The longest delay I've had on an SMS was 14 *days*. Yes, the phone was turned on and usable during the whole period, and there had been no network problems reported by either operator. Usually, though, it's a few seconds. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#15
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:30:34 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
Roger Mills wrote: I ask partly because a thread started by Bill Wright in another NG seemed to suggest that SMS message may sometimes not be delivered for several hours. If that were the case, your house may well have been cleared or razed to the ground by the time you knew about it. The longest delay I've had on an SMS was 14 *days*. Yes, the phone was turned on and usable during the whole period, and there had been no network problems reported by either operator. The point is an SMS can just be lost - the protocol doesn't provide a return path for acknowledgement. Same as email. Usually, though, it's a few seconds. "Usually" isn't good enough when it's real time and/or high risk. |
#16
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:30:34 +0000, John Williamson wrote: Roger Mills wrote: I ask partly because a thread started by Bill Wright in another NG seemed to suggest that SMS message may sometimes not be delivered for several hours. If that were the case, your house may well have been cleared or razed to the ground by the time you knew about it. The longest delay I've had on an SMS was 14 *days*. Yes, the phone was turned on and usable during the whole period, and there had been no network problems reported by either operator. The point is an SMS can just be lost - the protocol doesn't provide a return path for acknowledgement. Same as email. Vodafone do provide a delivery notification, though I'm not sure if that's actually to the recipient or just their network. It certainly doesn't tell you when the message has been opened. Usually, though, it's a few seconds. "Usually" isn't good enough when it's real time and/or high risk. I wasn't suggesting that it is. I've had quite a few occasions when the client has asked me why I didn't arrive at the new time they texted me. Either the text hadn't arrived within a few minutes or I'd not heard the alert.... -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#17
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
In message , at 11:23:01 on Tue, 18
Dec 2012, polygonum remarked: Seems London Fire Brigade is considering twitter to report fires... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20754978 Is that any more reliable than SMS? You can see if a tweet has been posted, and unless there's a system-wide outage (which does happen very occasionally) it's reliably almost instantaneous. I can tell this because I have three Twitter accounts linked to my Tweetdeck and one follows the other two, so I can see the messages coming straight back. -- Roland Perry |
#18
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
In message , at 11:43:38 on Tue, 18 Dec
2012, Jethro_uk remarked: The point is an SMS can just be lost - the protocol doesn't provide a return path for acknowledgement. Same as email. Depends what you are using to send email (and what the person receiving it is using). I sometimes send emails "direct" to the recipient's local email server, rather than via a third party mail relay, and this means I can inherently tell if it's been received by that local server. Also sat by my desk is such a local email server (independent of any ISP relays) which collects emails sent to one of my many domains. The contents are on my screen immediately. -- Roland Perry |
#19
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
In message , Roger Mills
writes Recently received an email from LocksOnline (from whom I've bought mechanical bits and pieces in the past) attempting to sell me a security system. Details he http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalo...ra_Home__Fire_ __Security_.html The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. I immediately thought this would be great for fitting inside my allotment shed. But the battery life is stated as 10-12 hours so no good. Anyone know of a setup which would last longer? -- Simon 12) The Second Rule of Expectations An EXPECTATION is a Premeditated resentment. |
#20
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:03:44 PM UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
I sometimes send emails "direct" to the recipient's local email server, rather than via a third party mail relay, and this means I can inherently tell if it's been received by that local server. You still cannot reliably determine that the message has reached the recipient's mailbox, or that it has been opened/read. |
#21
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
In message , at
02:08:14 on Wed, 19 Dec 2012, Mathew Newton remarked: I sometimes send emails "direct" to the recipient's local email server, rather than via a third party mail relay, and this means I can inherently tell if it's been received by that local server. You still cannot reliably determine that the message has reached the recipient's mailbox, or that it has been opened/read. That depends on how they collect their mail. If I send such an email to my own local email server, the only thing stopping it appearing in one of the recipient's mailboxes (barring the internal network failing) is if they've switched off their email client. But even if you send someone a telex for FAX, with delivery confirmed, you can't guarantee it'll ever be taken off the machine and given to anyone. -- Roland Perry |
#22
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:19:10 AM UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
But even if you send someone a telex for FAX, with delivery confirmed, you can't guarantee it'll ever be taken off the machine and given to anyone. I don't recall anyone saying you could. The comparison being made was that the (un)reliability of SMS was similar to e-mail. |
#23
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On 19/12/2012 08:55, usenet2012 wrote:
In message , Roger Mills writes Recently received an email from LocksOnline (from whom I've bought mechanical bits and pieces in the past) attempting to sell me a security system. Details he http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalo...ra_Home__Fire_ __Security_.html The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. I immediately thought this would be great for fitting inside my allotment shed. But the battery life is stated as 10-12 hours so no good. Anyone know of a setup which would last longer? I wonder what the output of the power adapter is, and whether you could derive that from a car battery. If so, that should last a bit longer! -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
#24
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:52:16 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
Vodafone do provide a delivery notification, though I'm not sure if that's actually to the recipient or just their network. It certainly doesn't tell you when the message has been opened. I'm not as au fait with SMS as email, but if they're analogous, then it only takes a node in the chain which *doesn't* support receipts, and the mechanism is broken. |
#25
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
In message , at
03:05:36 on Wed, 19 Dec 2012, Mathew Newton remarked: But even if you send someone a telex for FAX, with delivery confirmed, you can't guarantee it'll ever be taken off the machine and given to anyone. I don't recall anyone saying you could. The comparison being made was that the (un)reliability of SMS was similar to e-mail. I'm trying to explore what people think "reliable" means. Is it knowing I've got the email onto a server three feet away from the recipient (with onward delivery to their PC the default), or are we looking for a receipt which says they've also opened it? There is of course the whole MDN thing, but it's almost never used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_receipt -- Roland Perry |
#26
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
In message , Roger Mills
writes On 19/12/2012 08:55, usenet2012 wrote: In message , Roger Mills writes Recently received an email from LocksOnline (from whom I've bought mechanical bits and pieces in the past) attempting to sell me a security system. Details he http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalo...ra_Home__Fire_ __Security_.html The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. I immediately thought this would be great for fitting inside my allotment shed. But the battery life is stated as 10-12 hours so no good. Anyone know of a setup which would last longer? I wonder what the output of the power adapter is, and whether you could derive that from a car battery. If so, that should last a bit longer! 5.5V - I could bodgerise a mobile car charging lead I guess. -- Simon 12) The Second Rule of Expectations An EXPECTATION is a Premeditated resentment. |
#27
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:48:09 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
I'm trying to explore what people think "reliable" means. In this context it's knowledge that once the message is sent, it will get to it's destination within a set period of time - enough to be useful. Which is of course impossible. The next best thing, is the knowledge that if the message could not be delivered (for whatever reason) the sender will be notified within a set period of time - enough to be able to either resend the message, or arrange an alternative route. The old world analogy of course, would be with the postal system. It's an inherently unreliable one, but can be enhanced with recorded delivery. |
#28
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
usenet2012 wrote:
In message , Roger Mills writes On 19/12/2012 08:55, usenet2012 wrote: In message , Roger Mills writes Recently received an email from LocksOnline (from whom I've bought mechanical bits and pieces in the past) attempting to sell me a security system. Details he http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalo...ra_Home__Fire_ __Security_.html The idea seems to be that when (if) it detects an intruder or a fire in your home, it sends you and SMS message - together with photos of whatever its camera can see - prompting you to contact the police or fire brigade from wherever you happen to be. I immediately thought this would be great for fitting inside my allotment shed. But the battery life is stated as 10-12 hours so no good. Anyone know of a setup which would last longer? I wonder what the output of the power adapter is, and whether you could derive that from a car battery. If so, that should last a bit longer! 5.5V - I could bodgerise a mobile car charging lead I guess. A 6volt 12ah dryfit would last weeks, then recharge overnight on a car battery charger Steve Terry -- Get a free GiffGaff PAYG Sim and £5 bonus after activation at: http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/gfourwwk |
#29
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Alert Pal Alarm Camera anyone?
In message , at 14:51:10 on Wed, 19
Dec 2012, Jethro_uk remarked: I'm trying to explore what people think "reliable" means. In this context it's knowledge that once the message is sent, it will get to it's destination within a set period of time - enough to be useful. Which is of course impossible. Depends on how you define destination. I can provide people knowledge that an email to one of my domains has reached the in-house server three feet from me. The next best thing, is the knowledge that if the message could not be delivered (for whatever reason) the sender will be notified within a set period of time - enough to be able to either resend the message, or arrange an alternative route. And anyone sending an email direct to that server will be informed immediately if it's undeliverable. Although if they go through an intermediary (such as their ISP) to send the email then there will be a process of silent retries for maybe a day or two, followed by noisy retries for anything up to a week. The old world analogy of course, would be with the postal system. It's an inherently unreliable one, but can be enhanced with recorded delivery. Recorded delivery just says it got to the premises. Not to the person, nor that they opened (let alone read) the letter. My scheme above is at least as good as Recorded Delivery as far as those aspects are concerned. -- Roland Perry |
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