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Default No Smoking on the Underground

Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...


Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary

Wish I had been there to see and smell it.

--
Rod
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:11 +0000, polygonum
wrote:

Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...


Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary

Wish I had been there to see and smell it.


Fantastic. I am amazed that today's 'elfin safety' permitted it.
Whilst years of acute discomfort associated with the Paddington -
Westminster section of the Circle during the rush hour cured me of any
affection for the tube I too would love to see it.

According to the article all the tickets for the January runs have
been sold but I may just risk a trip to London just to see it.
--
rbel
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I guess the great and the good got first pickings as usual.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


rbel wrote in message ...
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:11 +0000, polygonum
wrote:

Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...


Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary

Wish I had been there to see and smell it.


Fantastic. I am amazed that today's 'elfin safety' permitted it.
Whilst years of acute discomfort associated with the Paddington -
Westminster section of the Circle during the rush hour cured me of any
affection for the tube I too would love to see it.

According to the article all the tickets for the January runs have
been sold but I may just risk a trip to London just to see it.
--
rbel



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"Brian Gaff" wrote in message ...

I guess the great and the good got first pickings as usual.

Brian
---
Don't know but they were very pricey.

Paul DS
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On Dec 17, 3:00*pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...

Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou...

Wish I had been there to see and smell it.

--
Rod


Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation
chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain.


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On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...

Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou...

Wish I had been there to see and smell it.

--
Rod


Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation
chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain.

Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow?

--
Rod
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On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...

Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou...

Wish I had been there to see and smell it.

--
Rod


Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation
chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain.


A lot of the early underground was surface railway in cuttings, covered
only where unavoidable.

Colin Bignell
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On 17/12/12 19:03, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...

Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou...

Wish I had been there to see and smell it.

--
Rod


Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation
chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain.

Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow?


The Metropolitan/Circle/District line was the first to be built and is
sub-surface cut-and-cover rather than bored tunnel underground. Much of
it runs in open cuttings.




--
djc

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On 17/12/2012 20:43, djc wrote:
On 17/12/12 19:03, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey
horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...

Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou...


Wish I had been there to see and smell it.

--
Rod

Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation
chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain.

Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer
shallow?


The Metropolitan/Circle/District line was the first to be built and is
sub-surface cut-and-cover rather than bored tunnel underground. Much of
it runs in open cuttings.




I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process.
But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow
- but does that mean they no longer are?

--
Rod
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On 17/12/2012 17:21, Paul D Smith wrote:
Don't know but they were very pricey.


It says UKP180. And they went instantly.

Peter Hendy, the commissioner of Transport for London: "This is the
advantage of having your own railway – you don't have to ask permission"

Andy


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On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:49:54 +0000, rbel wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:11 +0000, polygonum
wrote:



Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary

Wish I had been there to see and smell it.



affection for the tube I too would love to see it.

According to the article all the tickets for the January runs have
been sold but I may just risk a trip to London just to see it.

Bit of a risk if you are coming from afar, Most of it will be
Underground after all and it's a fair bet that there will have to be
crowd control at stations. Even if you can find a spot where you can
peer over a wall or can get access to a building that overlooks an
open section it will be dark by the time it runs .

G.Harman
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polygonum wrote:
I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process.
But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow
- but does that mean they no longer are?

The early ones were shallow, as that was all they could build and
operate using steam traction. Then in 1890 or thereabouts they started
using the shield method of building the tunnels, and depth became almost
irrelevant except for access problems. The needed prior invention to
make these lines possible was reliable electric traction, with the coal
burning taking place in a power station and reliable transmission of
power. See:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lots_Road_Power_Station

There were others, but this was the most famous. Now, the tube takes its
power from the National Grid.

Even the shallow lines with their many open air sections required the
steam engines to be fitted with apparatus to "digest" the smoke, often
by passing it through the water in the side tanks of the locomotive.
This was not very effective. Cough, choke, splutter

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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On 17/12/2012 23:15, John Williamson wrote:
polygonum wrote:
I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process.
But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite
shallow - but does that mean they no longer are?

The early ones were shallow, as that was all they could build and
operate using steam traction. Then in 1890 or thereabouts they started
using the shield method of building the tunnels, and depth became almost
irrelevant except for access problems. The needed prior invention to
make these lines possible was reliable electric traction, with the coal
burning taking place in a power station and reliable transmission of
power. See:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lots_Road_Power_Station

There were others, but this was the most famous. Now, the tube takes its
power from the National Grid.

Even the shallow lines with their many open air sections required the
steam engines to be fitted with apparatus to "digest" the smoke, often
by passing it through the water in the side tanks of the locomotive.
This was not very effective. Cough, choke, splutter

But did they change the shallowness of, for example, the existing Baker
Street station?

--
Rod
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On 17/12/2012 15:00, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...


Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary


Wish I had been there to see and smell it.


Beeb has got a film:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20759707

--
Rod
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polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 23:15, John Williamson wrote:
polygonum wrote:
I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process.
But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite
shallow - but does that mean they no longer are?

The early ones were shallow, as that was all they could build and
operate using steam traction. Then in 1890 or thereabouts they started
using the shield method of building the tunnels, and depth became almost
irrelevant except for access problems. The needed prior invention to
make these lines possible was reliable electric traction, with the coal
burning taking place in a power station and reliable transmission of
power. See:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lots_Road_Power_Station

There were others, but this was the most famous. Now, the tube takes its
power from the National Grid.

Even the shallow lines with their many open air sections required the
steam engines to be fitted with apparatus to "digest" the smoke, often
by passing it through the water in the side tanks of the locomotive.
This was not very effective. Cough, choke, splutter

But did they change the shallowness of, for example, the existing Baker
Street station?

No. In places it is even the original beams which are holding the roof
up and the retaining walls apart. In places, the original tiled wall
finish is in place behind the modern decorations

If you go for a ride on the Circle line. you will see an awful lot of
daylight as you travel.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.


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On 17/12/12 20:50, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 20:43, djc wrote:
On 17/12/12 19:03, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey
horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...

Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou...



Wish I had been there to see and smell it.

--
Rod

Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation
chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain.

Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer
shallow?


The Metropolitan/Circle/District line was the first to be built and is
sub-surface cut-and-cover rather than bored tunnel underground. Much of
it runs in open cuttings.




I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process.
But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow
- but does that mean they no longer are?



They are still. I can look over part of the cutting for the Kings Cross
to Farringdon section from my front window.





--
djc

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On 17/12/12 23:21, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 23:15, John Williamson wrote:
polygonum wrote:
I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process.
But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite
shallow - but does that mean they no longer are?

The early ones were shallow, as that was all they could build and
operate using steam traction. Then in 1890 or thereabouts they started
using the shield method of building the tunnels, and depth became almost
irrelevant except for access problems. The needed prior invention to
make these lines possible was reliable electric traction, with the coal
burning taking place in a power station and reliable transmission of
power. See:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lots_Road_Power_Station

There were others, but this was the most famous. Now, the tube takes its
power from the National Grid.

Even the shallow lines with their many open air sections required the
steam engines to be fitted with apparatus to "digest" the smoke, often
by passing it through the water in the side tanks of the locomotive.
This was not very effective. Cough, choke, splutter

But did they change the shallowness of, for example, the existing Baker
Street station?


No, if you look at the photograph in the Guardian article linked in the
OP you can see a light well at the side of the opposite platform. It's
now sealed up with a lamp giving the illusion of daylight, but
originally that was open to the surface. The Kings Cross to Bakers Str
Section is just below Euston Road.




--
djc

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On Dec 17, 7:03*pm, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:







On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...


Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations


Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou....


Wish I had been there to see and smell it.


--
Rod


Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation
chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain.


Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow?

--
Rod


No, I'd have thought that was pretty obvious even to you.
It just means there were no deep ones.
Dunno why such stupid questions go through your mind when you can find
out most things with a few mouse clicks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_underground
The early tunnels were dug mainly using the cut-and-cover method. This
caused widespread disruption, and required the demolition of many
properties on the surface. The first trains were steam-hauled,
requiring effective ventilation to the surface. Ventilation shafts at
various points on the route allowed the engines to expel steam and
bring fresh air into the tunnels. One such vent is at Leinster
Gardens, W2.[19] To preserve the visual characteristics in what is
still an affluent street, a five-foot thick (1.5 m) concrete façade
was constructed to resemble a genuine house frontage.
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:22:24 +0000, polygonum
wrote:

Beeb has got a film:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20759707


"Tickets, allocated by a ballot, have all gone."

Ballot, my arse. You can be utterly sure before the ballot took place
that some were 'allocated' to high heid yins.


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In message , djc
writes
On 17/12/12 20:50, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 20:43, djc wrote:
On 17/12/12 19:03, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey
horrible
place it would be if they still ran. Well...

Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations

Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive
pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou...



Wish I had been there to see and smell it.

--
Rod

Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation
chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain.

Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer
shallow?

The Metropolitan/Circle/District line was the first to be built and is
sub-surface cut-and-cover rather than bored tunnel underground. Much of
it runs in open cuttings.




I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process.
But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow
- but does that mean they no longer are?



They are still. I can look over part of the cutting for the Kings Cross
to Farringdon section from my front window.

I waved as I went past last friday - you didn't respond

--
geoff
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In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:22:24 +0000, polygonum
wrote:

Beeb has got a film:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20759707


"Tickets, allocated by a ballot, have all gone."

Ballot, my arse. You can be utterly sure before the ballot took place
that some were 'allocated' to high heid yins.


Oh you are cynical

--
geoff
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