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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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No Smoking on the Underground
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations
where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod |
#2
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No Smoking on the Underground
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:11 +0000, polygonum
wrote: Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary Wish I had been there to see and smell it. Fantastic. I am amazed that today's 'elfin safety' permitted it. Whilst years of acute discomfort associated with the Paddington - Westminster section of the Circle during the rush hour cured me of any affection for the tube I too would love to see it. According to the article all the tickets for the January runs have been sold but I may just risk a trip to London just to see it. -- rbel |
#4
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No Smoking on the Underground
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message ...
I guess the great and the good got first pickings as usual. Brian --- Don't know but they were very pricey. Paul DS |
#5
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No Smoking on the Underground
On Dec 17, 3:00*pm, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou... Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain. |
#6
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote: Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou... Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain. Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow? -- Rod |
#7
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote: Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou... Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain. A lot of the early underground was surface railway in cuttings, covered only where unavoidable. Colin Bignell |
#8
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/12 19:03, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote: On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote: Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou... Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain. Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow? The Metropolitan/Circle/District line was the first to be built and is sub-surface cut-and-cover rather than bored tunnel underground. Much of it runs in open cuttings. -- djc |
#9
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/2012 20:43, djc wrote:
On 17/12/12 19:03, polygonum wrote: On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote: On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote: Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou... Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain. Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow? The Metropolitan/Circle/District line was the first to be built and is sub-surface cut-and-cover rather than bored tunnel underground. Much of it runs in open cuttings. I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process. But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow - but does that mean they no longer are? -- Rod |
#10
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/2012 17:21, Paul D Smith wrote:
Don't know but they were very pricey. It says UKP180. And they went instantly. Peter Hendy, the commissioner of Transport for London: "This is the advantage of having your own railway – you don't have to ask permission" Andy |
#11
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No Smoking on the Underground
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:49:54 +0000, rbel wrote:
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:11 +0000, polygonum wrote: Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary Wish I had been there to see and smell it. affection for the tube I too would love to see it. According to the article all the tickets for the January runs have been sold but I may just risk a trip to London just to see it. Bit of a risk if you are coming from afar, Most of it will be Underground after all and it's a fair bet that there will have to be crowd control at stations. Even if you can find a spot where you can peer over a wall or can get access to a building that overlooks an open section it will be dark by the time it runs . G.Harman |
#12
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No Smoking on the Underground
polygonum wrote:
I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process. But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow - but does that mean they no longer are? The early ones were shallow, as that was all they could build and operate using steam traction. Then in 1890 or thereabouts they started using the shield method of building the tunnels, and depth became almost irrelevant except for access problems. The needed prior invention to make these lines possible was reliable electric traction, with the coal burning taking place in a power station and reliable transmission of power. See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lots_Road_Power_Station There were others, but this was the most famous. Now, the tube takes its power from the National Grid. Even the shallow lines with their many open air sections required the steam engines to be fitted with apparatus to "digest" the smoke, often by passing it through the water in the side tanks of the locomotive. This was not very effective. Cough, choke, splutter -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#13
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/2012 23:15, John Williamson wrote:
polygonum wrote: I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process. But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow - but does that mean they no longer are? The early ones were shallow, as that was all they could build and operate using steam traction. Then in 1890 or thereabouts they started using the shield method of building the tunnels, and depth became almost irrelevant except for access problems. The needed prior invention to make these lines possible was reliable electric traction, with the coal burning taking place in a power station and reliable transmission of power. See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lots_Road_Power_Station There were others, but this was the most famous. Now, the tube takes its power from the National Grid. Even the shallow lines with their many open air sections required the steam engines to be fitted with apparatus to "digest" the smoke, often by passing it through the water in the side tanks of the locomotive. This was not very effective. Cough, choke, splutter But did they change the shallowness of, for example, the existing Baker Street station? -- Rod |
#14
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/2012 15:00, polygonum wrote:
Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...nd-anniversary Wish I had been there to see and smell it. Beeb has got a film: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20759707 -- Rod |
#15
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No Smoking on the Underground
polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 23:15, John Williamson wrote: polygonum wrote: I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process. But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow - but does that mean they no longer are? The early ones were shallow, as that was all they could build and operate using steam traction. Then in 1890 or thereabouts they started using the shield method of building the tunnels, and depth became almost irrelevant except for access problems. The needed prior invention to make these lines possible was reliable electric traction, with the coal burning taking place in a power station and reliable transmission of power. See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lots_Road_Power_Station There were others, but this was the most famous. Now, the tube takes its power from the National Grid. Even the shallow lines with their many open air sections required the steam engines to be fitted with apparatus to "digest" the smoke, often by passing it through the water in the side tanks of the locomotive. This was not very effective. Cough, choke, splutter But did they change the shallowness of, for example, the existing Baker Street station? No. In places it is even the original beams which are holding the roof up and the retaining walls apart. In places, the original tiled wall finish is in place behind the modern decorations If you go for a ride on the Circle line. you will see an awful lot of daylight as you travel. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#16
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/12 20:50, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 20:43, djc wrote: On 17/12/12 19:03, polygonum wrote: On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote: On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote: Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou... Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain. Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow? The Metropolitan/Circle/District line was the first to be built and is sub-surface cut-and-cover rather than bored tunnel underground. Much of it runs in open cuttings. I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process. But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow - but does that mean they no longer are? They are still. I can look over part of the cutting for the Kings Cross to Farringdon section from my front window. -- djc |
#17
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No Smoking on the Underground
On 17/12/12 23:21, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 23:15, John Williamson wrote: polygonum wrote: I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process. But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow - but does that mean they no longer are? The early ones were shallow, as that was all they could build and operate using steam traction. Then in 1890 or thereabouts they started using the shield method of building the tunnels, and depth became almost irrelevant except for access problems. The needed prior invention to make these lines possible was reliable electric traction, with the coal burning taking place in a power station and reliable transmission of power. See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lots_Road_Power_Station There were others, but this was the most famous. Now, the tube takes its power from the National Grid. Even the shallow lines with their many open air sections required the steam engines to be fitted with apparatus to "digest" the smoke, often by passing it through the water in the side tanks of the locomotive. This was not very effective. Cough, choke, splutter But did they change the shallowness of, for example, the existing Baker Street station? No, if you look at the photograph in the Guardian article linked in the OP you can see a light well at the side of the opposite platform. It's now sealed up with a lamp giving the illusion of daylight, but originally that was open to the surface. The Kings Cross to Bakers Str Section is just below Euston Road. -- djc |
#18
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No Smoking on the Underground
On Dec 17, 7:03*pm, polygonum wrote:
On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote: On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote: Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou.... Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain. Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow? -- Rod No, I'd have thought that was pretty obvious even to you. It just means there were no deep ones. Dunno why such stupid questions go through your mind when you can find out most things with a few mouse clicks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_underground The early tunnels were dug mainly using the cut-and-cover method. This caused widespread disruption, and required the demolition of many properties on the surface. The first trains were steam-hauled, requiring effective ventilation to the surface. Ventilation shafts at various points on the route allowed the engines to expel steam and bring fresh air into the tunnels. One such vent is at Leinster Gardens, W2.[19] To preserve the visual characteristics in what is still an affluent street, a five-foot thick (1.5 m) concrete façade was constructed to resemble a genuine house frontage. |
#19
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No Smoking on the Underground
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#20
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No Smoking on the Underground
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:22:24 +0000, polygonum
wrote: Beeb has got a film: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20759707 "Tickets, allocated by a ballot, have all gone." Ballot, my arse. You can be utterly sure before the ballot took place that some were 'allocated' to high heid yins. |
#21
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No Smoking on the Underground
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:43:59 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote: On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 22:33:09 +0000, wrote: Even if you can find a spot where you can peer over a wall or can get access to a building that overlooks an open section it will be dark by the time it runs . Metz CT-60. Admit I had to look it up,hire a scissor lift and do your own O Winston Link. G.Harman |
#22
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No Smoking on the Underground
In message , djc
writes On 17/12/12 20:50, polygonum wrote: On 17/12/2012 20:43, djc wrote: On 17/12/12 19:03, polygonum wrote: On 17/12/2012 17:57, harry wrote: On Dec 17, 3:00 pm, polygonum wrote: Many times I have stood at Baker Street or one of the other stations where steam locomotives used to haul and thought, what a smokey horrible place it would be if they still ran. Well... Steam train back on tube track for 150-year anniversary celebrations Test run for London Underground's anniversary sees restored locomotive pull Victorian carriage from Earl's Court to Moorgate http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/de...ndon-undergrou... Wish I had been there to see and smell it. -- Rod Bback then the tunnels were quite shallow and there were ventilation chimneys. Many were removed on electrifiction but some remain. Have the stations sunk since they were built so they are no longer shallow? The Metropolitan/Circle/District line was the first to be built and is sub-surface cut-and-cover rather than bored tunnel underground. Much of it runs in open cuttings. I appreciate that - there are some excellent pictures of the process. But harry seemed to be suggesting that the tunnels *were* quite shallow - but does that mean they no longer are? They are still. I can look over part of the cutting for the Kings Cross to Farringdon section from my front window. I waved as I went past last friday - you didn't respond -- geoff |
#23
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No Smoking on the Underground
In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:22:24 +0000, polygonum wrote: Beeb has got a film: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20759707 "Tickets, allocated by a ballot, have all gone." Ballot, my arse. You can be utterly sure before the ballot took place that some were 'allocated' to high heid yins. Oh you are cynical -- geoff |
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