The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach to the WC pan.

Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges

Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges? I'm afraid that answers along the lines of "I think" or "It should" won't be helpful because F-I-L cannot be without the WC and chunks of the hinge fixings disappearing into the base of the WC as a result of undoing the Allen screws and the seat becoming even more lose isn't acceptable.

I've looked all over the WC and can't see any maker's names.

TIA

Richard

RJS wrote:
The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip
etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach
to the WC pan.

Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges

Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges? I'm afraid
that answers along the lines of "I think" or "It should" won't be
helpful because F-I-L cannot be without the WC and chunks of the
hinge fixings disappearing into the base of the WC as a result of
undoing the Allen screws and the seat becoming even more lose isn't
acceptable.

I've looked all over the WC and can't see any maker's names.

First, clean the toilet pan (and hinges). Take it as read that you *will*
drop something down there. ;-)

Second, *I think* you just need to remove the allen grub screws and then the
hinges will lift off the pan. You'll probably be left with some sort of stud
that it may be possible to tighten "blind" if you're lucky or you may need
to gain access to the bottom ends of the studs. How easy or hard that is
depends on the design of your pan.

My pan is a "back to wall/panel" variety and I have to remove the panel
behind the pan if I want to get to the bottom end of my studs but as long as
the retaining nut hasn't actually fallen off, you should be able to tighten
them from above.

Tim

On 10/12/2012 14:16, RJS wrote:
The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach to the WC pan.

Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges

Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges? I'm afraid that answers along the lines of "I think" or "It should" won't be helpful because F-I-L cannot be without the WC and chunks of the hinge fixings disappearing into the base of the WC as a result of undoing the Allen screws and the seat becoming even more lose isn't acceptable.

I've looked all over the WC and can't see any maker's names.

TIA

Richard

Tighten in what way?
Are the hinges loose on the pan, or loose on the seat.
Or is the the 'soft close' that is less soft?
Precise questions begat precise answers.

Phil wrote:
On 10/12/2012 14:16, RJS wrote:
The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip
etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach
to the WC pan.

Tighten in what way?
Are the hinges loose on the pan, or loose on the seat.

The above seems fairly clear to me...


Or is the the 'soft close' that is less soft?
Precise questions begat precise answers.

Accurate reading is also a help. ;-)

Tim

On 10/12/2012 14:16, RJS wrote:
The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach to the WC pan.

Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges

Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges? I'm afraid that answers along the lines of "I think" or "It should" won't be helpful because F-I-L cannot be without the WC and chunks of the hinge fixings disappearing into the base of the WC as a result of undoing the Allen screws and the seat becoming even more lose isn't acceptable.

I've looked all over the WC and can't see any maker's names.

TIA

Richard


firstly, asking for a definitive answer is not going to happen, this is
uk.d-i-y, you need to take some initiative and responsibility, otherwise
you need to "get a man in" (who will probably just say it needs
replacing if they break it trying to fix it)

Even if your toilet looks like one someone else has, it may be a
different revision.

The hinges look very similar to mine, but not exactly the same (the grub
screws on mine face the cistern) mine consist of two studs that are
pushed into the pan, then screwed in to open an expanding part which
wedges them in, and then the hinge slots over them, and is tightened
with the grub screws.

firstly try simply tightening the grub screws, as these can work loose
over time, this is very low risk, and shouldn't result in anything going
down the pan, but do so at your own risk etc...

If this does not solve it, then the studs may have come loose, you will
need to undo the grub screws (but shouldn't need to take them out
totally) and the hinge should then separate from the pan. On mine, the
hinges are not attached to the seat, they are just pushed on, so come of
easily, so be prepared for them to fall off if you tilt the seat, or sneeze.

The two hinges are probably not the same as they have to soft close in
two different directions, so make sure you put them back where they
were, facing the same way (mark one L and the other R before taking them
off, or you might break them (the instructions for mine warned if this,
and they came pre-marked)

Good luck!!

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

On Monday, 10 December 2012 15:49:33 UTC, Toby wrote:
On 10/12/2012 14:16, RJS wrote:

The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach to the WC pan.



Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges



Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges? I'm afraid that answers along the lines of "I think" or "It should" won't be helpful because F-I-L cannot be without the WC and chunks of the hinge fixings disappearing into the base of the WC as a result of undoing the Allen screws and the seat becoming even more lose isn't acceptable.



I've looked all over the WC and can't see any maker's names.



TIA



Richard





firstly, asking for a definitive answer is not going to happen, this is

uk.d-i-y, you need to take some initiative and responsibility, otherwise

you need to "get a man in" (who will probably just say it needs

replacing if they break it trying to fix it)



Even if your toilet looks like one someone else has, it may be a

different revision.



The hinges look very similar to mine, but not exactly the same (the grub

screws on mine face the cistern) mine consist of two studs that are

pushed into the pan, then screwed in to open an expanding part which

wedges them in, and then the hinge slots over them, and is tightened

with the grub screws.



firstly try simply tightening the grub screws, as these can work loose

over time, this is very low risk, and shouldn't result in anything going

down the pan, but do so at your own risk etc...



If this does not solve it, then the studs may have come loose, you will

need to undo the grub screws (but shouldn't need to take them out

totally) and the hinge should then separate from the pan. On mine, the

hinges are not attached to the seat, they are just pushed on, so come of

easily, so be prepared for them to fall off if you tilt the seat, or sneeze.



The two hinges are probably not the same as they have to soft close in

two different directions, so make sure you put them back where they

were, facing the same way (mark one L and the other R before taking them

off, or you might break them (the instructions for mine warned if this,

and they came pre-marked)



Good luck!!



--

Toby...

Remove pants to reply

Hi Toby

I think that my request for a definitive answer was a reasonably successful attempt at discouraging the 'I think' answers :-)

If it wasn't the poor chap's only WC I'd take a fairly 'gung ho' approach.

Incidentally, the grub screws seem to tighten the exposed portion of the hinge (the soft close part) onto some sort of lose pillar that protrudes through the pan and I have a horrible feeling that losening them could result in a clatter as the pillars dissapear into the bowels of the bowl :-)


Perhaps I should have approached the problem form the other end and asked: how do I attach a WC seat to a WC pan that has concealed hinge fixings. What do you think?


Cheers Richard

On Monday, 10 December 2012 14:35:51 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
RJS wrote:

The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip

etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach

to the WC pan.



Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges



Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges? I'm afraid

that answers along the lines of "I think" or "It should" won't be

helpful because F-I-L cannot be without the WC and chunks of the

hinge fixings disappearing into the base of the WC as a result of

undoing the Allen screws and the seat becoming even more lose isn't

acceptable.



I've looked all over the WC and can't see any maker's names.



First, clean the toilet pan (and hinges). Take it as read that you *will*

drop something down there. ;-)



Second, *I think* you just need to remove the allen grub screws and then the

hinges will lift off the pan. You'll probably be left with some sort of stud

that it may be possible to tighten "blind" if you're lucky or you may need

to gain access to the bottom ends of the studs. How easy or hard that is

depends on the design of your pan.



My pan is a "back to wall/panel" variety and I have to remove the panel

behind the pan if I want to get to the bottom end of my studs but as long as

the retaining nut hasn't actually fallen off, you should be able to tighten

them from above.



Tim

Thanks Tim

During my initial investigations I covered the open pan with cling film - not forgetting to remove it afterwards :-)

R

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 06:16:32 -0800 (PST), RJS wrote:

The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip
etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach to
the WC pan.

Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges

Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges?

Doesn't look like it and you aren't likely to get a definitive answer
anyway.

Can you get at or see the other side of the pan from the hinges? I think
possibly not but you don't state if this a conventional type pan or a
flush back to wall type.

In the closeup image of a hinge why is there that "spacer" bit between
the seat and chromed hinge? Should that be fully inside the chromed hinge
part like the otherside? Indicating that the hinge has moved to the left?

If you loosened the grub screw the chromed hinge part can't slide left or
right to come off what ever is underneath as it has a complete skirt.
This indiactes that if you loosen that the hinge and seat will most
likely lift off, leaving a fixing sub attached to the pan.

I'd then expect to find that the stub can be moved left/right and also
gaining you access to the top of the bolt that holds the stub to the pan.

If you don't have access to the underside, then I'd expect the fixing to
be some form of compressable rubber "bung" that expands into the hole in
the pan as the bolt is tightened. That is not to say that the plumber who
installed the loo used that type of fixing as he may have fittted the
seat before fitting the loo whilst he still had access to the back...

All conjecture which you don't want but without carefully and cautiously
taking it apart you ain't going to get much further towards fixing the
problem. Just don't madly go undoing things loosen a bit see how they
start to move, tighten back up if it doesn't seem right...

--
Cheers
Dave.

RJS wrote:
On Monday, 10 December 2012 15:49:33 UTC, Toby wrote:
On 10/12/2012 14:16, RJS wrote:

The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip
etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach
to the WC pan.



Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges



Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges? I'm
afraid that answers along the lines of "I think" or "It should"
won't be helpful because F-I-L cannot be without the WC and chunks
of the hinge fixings disappearing into the base of the WC as a
result of undoing the Allen screws and the seat becoming even more
lose isn't acceptable.



I've looked all over the WC and can't see any maker's names.



TIA



Richard





firstly, asking for a definitive answer is not going to happen, this
is

uk.d-i-y, you need to take some initiative and responsibility,
otherwise

you need to "get a man in" (who will probably just say it needs

replacing if they break it trying to fix it)



Even if your toilet looks like one someone else has, it may be a

different revision.



The hinges look very similar to mine, but not exactly the same (the
grub

screws on mine face the cistern) mine consist of two studs that are

pushed into the pan, then screwed in to open an expanding part which

wedges them in, and then the hinge slots over them, and is tightened

with the grub screws.



firstly try simply tightening the grub screws, as these can work
loose

over time, this is very low risk, and shouldn't result in anything
going

down the pan, but do so at your own risk etc...



If this does not solve it, then the studs may have come loose, you
will

need to undo the grub screws (but shouldn't need to take them out

totally) and the hinge should then separate from the pan. On mine,
the

hinges are not attached to the seat, they are just pushed on, so
come of

easily, so be prepared for them to fall off if you tilt the seat, or
sneeze.



The two hinges are probably not the same as they have to soft close
in

two different directions, so make sure you put them back where they

were, facing the same way (mark one L and the other R before taking
them

off, or you might break them (the instructions for mine warned if
this,

and they came pre-marked)



Good luck!!



--

Toby...

Remove pants to reply

Hi Toby

I think that my request for a definitive answer was a reasonably
successful attempt at discouraging the 'I think' answers :-)

If it wasn't the poor chap's only WC I'd take a fairly 'gung ho'
approach.

Incidentally, the grub screws seem to tighten the exposed portion of
the hinge (the soft close part) onto some sort of lose pillar that
protrudes through the pan and I have a horrible feeling that losening
them could result in a clatter as the pillars dissapear into the
bowels of the bowl :-)

I think you need to stop being a wuss and just undo those grub screws. ;-)

Whatever you plan to do, you will have to remove the seat before you can
replace or repair anything. If the seat is still attached to the pan I
think it would be most unlikely that the pillars will disappear anywhere,
they'll just be very "floppy". You'll probably find that all you need to do
is to pull lightly on the pillars as you twist them up (to stop the back nut
spinning) and then nip them up a bit tighter with a spanner or something to
finish off.

Beware of over-tightening as it would be quite possible to crack the pan.



Perhaps I should have approached the problem form the other end and
asked: how do I attach a WC seat to a WC pan that has concealed hinge
fixings. What do you think?

Well it depends on how the fixings are concealed. If it's a "back to panel"
type pan then you need to either move the pan away from the panel or the
panel away from the pan. In my case that meant removing the panel from
behind the pan which was a lot easier than I was expecting. I just had to
remove a small panel with a flush button above the maim panel and then the
main panel could be slipped upwards and outwards. Then I could reach around
to the inside of the pan casting.

Tim

On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 09:35:44 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 06:16:32 -0800 (PST), RJS wrote:



The only WC which my F-I-L is able to use at home (stroke, bust hip

etc) has soft close hinges which have become lose where they attach to

the WC pan.



Photos are here https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges



Does anyone know for certain how to tighten said hinges?



Doesn't look like it and you aren't likely to get a definitive answer

anyway.



Can you get at or see the other side of the pan from the hinges? I think

possibly not but you don't state if this a conventional type pan or a

flush back to wall type.



In the closeup image of a hinge why is there that "spacer" bit between

the seat and chromed hinge? Should that be fully inside the chromed hinge

part like the otherside? Indicating that the hinge has moved to the left?



If you loosened the grub screw the chromed hinge part can't slide left or

right to come off what ever is underneath as it has a complete skirt.

This indiactes that if you loosen that the hinge and seat will most

likely lift off, leaving a fixing sub attached to the pan.



I'd then expect to find that the stub can be moved left/right and also

gaining you access to the top of the bolt that holds the stub to the pan.



If you don't have access to the underside, then I'd expect the fixing to

be some form of compressable rubber "bung" that expands into the hole in

the pan as the bolt is tightened. That is not to say that the plumber who

installed the loo used that type of fixing as he may have fittted the

seat before fitting the loo whilst he still had access to the back...



All conjecture which you don't want but without carefully and cautiously

taking it apart you ain't going to get much further towards fixing the

problem. Just don't madly go undoing things loosen a bit see how they

start to move, tighten back up if it doesn't seem right...



--

Cheers

Dave.

Thanks Dave

What was ever wrong with exposed fixings secured with butterfly nuts?

Sorry, WC is a flush fit to the back wall.

Rgds

Richard

On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 11:14:53 UTC, Tim+ wrote:



I think you need to stop being a wuss and just undo those grub screws. ;-)

Hi Tim. Indeed, if it was my WC I would 'go for it' and, if necessary, pop next door while waiting for replacement fixings to arrive or treat it as a continental loo. Unfortunately F-I-L can't pop anywhere.



Whatever you plan to do, you will have to remove the seat before you can

replace or repair anything. If the seat is still attached to the pan I

think it would be most unlikely that the pillars will disappear anywhere,

they'll just be very "floppy". You'll probably find that all you need to do

is to pull lightly on the pillars as you twist them up (to stop the back nut

spinning) and then nip them up a bit tighter with a spanner or something to

finish off.



Beware of over-tightening as it would be quite possible to crack the pan.

What a great thought.







Perhaps I should have approached the problem form the other end and

asked: how do I attach a WC seat to a WC pan that has concealed hinge

fixings. What do you think?



Well it depends on how the fixings are concealed. If it's a "back to panel"

type pan then you need to either move the pan away from the panel or the

panel away from the pan. In my case that meant removing the panel from

behind the pan which was a lot easier than I was expecting. I just had to

remove a small panel with a flush button above the maim panel and then the

main panel could be slipped upwards and outwards. Then I could reach around

to the inside of the pan casting.

No, it's a seamless chunk of porcelain fixed against a solid wall.





Tim

Cheers

Richard

Perhaps I should have approached the problem form the other end and asked: how do I attach a WC seat to a WC pan that has concealed hinge fixings. What do you think?

Well nuts

Jim K

RJS wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 11:14:53 UTC, Tim+ wrote:





Well it depends on how the fixings are concealed. If it's a "back to panel"

type pan then you need to either move the pan away from the panel or the

panel away from the pan. In my case that meant removing the panel from

behind the pan which was a lot easier than I was expecting. I just had to

remove a small panel with a flush button above the maim panel and then the

main panel could be slipped upwards and outwards. Then I could reach around

to the inside of the pan casting.

No, it's a seamless chunk of porcelain fixed against a solid wall.

I think we need another picture. Which way does the soil pipe go (if
visible)? How about the flush pipe?

Personally I think that as long as the pins that the seat clamps to have a
collar on them, they won't fall through and you'll be okay to remove the
seat. If you do need access to the other end though it sounds like you
will have to unscrew the pan from the floor.

A picture of the pan/cistern would be a be a big help.

Tim

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:08:37 -0800 (PST), RJS wrote:

What was ever wrong with exposed fixings secured with butterfly nuts?

Sorry, WC is a flush fit to the back wall.

You can't get at the butterfly nuts with a back to wall pan...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 12/12/2012 10:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:08:37 -0800 (PST), RJS wrote:

What was ever wrong with exposed fixings secured with butterfly nuts?

Sorry, WC is a flush fit to the back wall.

You can't get at the butterfly nuts with a back to wall pan...

You can on ours! Sure - the phrase "flush fit" might imply you cannot.

--
Rod

On Wednesday, 12 December 2012 10:46:58 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:08:37 -0800 (PST), RJS wrote:



What was ever wrong with exposed fixings secured with butterfly nuts?



Sorry, WC is a flush fit to the back wall.



You can't get at the butterfly nuts with a back to wall pan...



--

Cheers

Dave.

Seasonal Greetings Dave

Sorry, what I meant was a 'proper' bog with an accessible underside to the seat area.

Richard

On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 21:16:47 UTC, Tim+ wrote:




I think we need another picture. Which way does the soil pipe go (if

visible)? How about the flush pipe?



Personally I think that as long as the pins that the seat clamps to have a

collar on them, they won't fall through and you'll be okay to remove the

seat. If you do need access to the other end though it sounds like you

will have to unscrew the pan from the floor.



A picture of the pan/cistern would be a be a big help.



Tim

Hi Tim

Will try to visit F-I-L over the weekend and take more pictures.

Thanks for your continuing interest.

Richard

More pictures now he https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges

RJS wrote:
More pictures now he https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges

Looks like a real pain the in arse access-wise.

I still think that if the seat hasn't detached itself already from the pan,
you'll be fine to remove the grub screws and tighten up the retaining pins.
You could always wrap some string beneath the hinges around the pins if
you're paranoid about them dropping down into oblivion.

If you DO need access to the underside of the hinge pins, it looks like
you'll have to strip the whole shebang down.

I would say do it sooner rather than later as eventually one of the pins
may completely unscrew from its backnut and then you definitely will have
to strip everything down (unless you're lucky and the pins are retained by
a system - expanding plug say - that only needs access from the top).

Tim

On Monday, 17 December 2012 16:36:44 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
RJS wrote:

More pictures now he https://picasaweb.google.com/OldGit007/WCHinges



Looks like a real pain the in arse access-wise.

Very apposite phrase indeed :-)


I still think that if the seat hasn't detached itself already from the pan,

you'll be fine to remove the grub screws and tighten up the retaining pins.

You could always wrap some string beneath the hinges around the pins if

you're paranoid about them dropping down into oblivion.



If you DO need access to the underside of the hinge pins, it looks like

you'll have to strip the whole shebang down.



I would say do it sooner rather than later as eventually one of the pins

may completely unscrew from its backnut and then you definitely will have

to strip everything down (unless you're lucky and the pins are retained by

a system - expanding plug say - that only needs access from the top).



Tim


Hi Tim

Thanks for watching this thread. I think that you are correct about being brave and that string slipped under the hinges and wrapped around the pillars will give a modicum of confidence. It's truly unfortunate that it is the only WC that f-i-l can access. In view of this I will leave anf further tampering until after Christmas. I know that you are right about fixing it sooner rather than later, but if it falls to bits as a consequence of my investigations I will get a great deal of grief, whereas if it falls to bits unaided, my parents-in-law will be forced to get it sorted.

All I can say is that these concealed fixings appear to be a recipe for disaster.

Hope you have a good Christmas etc.

Cheers

Richard