Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?


Thanks

Phil

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:26:50 +0100, "TheScullster"
wrote:

Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?

I'm in the same position as you - in fact I'm off to look at a couple
of properties this afternoon - but I'm increasingly less certain about
it being a good way to go. In my case, it's a matter of trying to get
a better return on cash investments.

If I were you, I wouldn't assume that £500 pcm adds up to £6000 pa.
Unless you are in an area where demand outstrips supply and where
people stay put in one place for years at a time I would either
subtract an amount for void periods or subtract an amount for using an
agent or subtract an amount for using an agent yet still suffering
from voids.

Part of the arithmetic of buy to let used to be the increase in
capital value of the property. Unless you live in one of the few areas
where property prices are still increasing, you live in one of the
many areas where they are not - and there are people I trust who say
that we are many years away from bottoming out. I'm doing my
calculations on the basis that £Xooo investment will produce £Yoo
return year after year and even if the value of the asset falls,
that's what I've committed to produce the income. It could be many
years before I see an increase in value of my capital so I'm not
counting it and if £Yoo expressed as a percentage return on investment
is less than I could get somewhere safe then it's not worth the hassle
to me. Round my way there are 50-60 grand properties that will rent
out for 350-400 per month so the arithmetic looks a little better to
start with.

Other costs?
Insurance
Gas inspection and repairs
Energy Performance Certificate or whatever they call it nowadays
Running repairs - which will depend a lot on the property and your
tenant
You might also like to take a look at this:
http://www.newham.gov.uk/News/2012/J... approved.htm

...and ask how long before all councils are doing it.

Personally, I'm also looking into the advantages or otherwise of
buying a bigger house for myself and taking in a lodger. And I'm
looking very seriously at peer-to-peer lending as a way of getting a
decent return.

That's my opinion: YMMV. And naturally, being in the position I am
right now, I'm very interested in other replies!

Nick

"TheScullster" wrote in message
...

Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My own experience of doing this when returns on a "normal" property were 12%
is that, without the capital gain, it was more hassle than it was worth.
Tenants not paying their rent, moving out before the end of term [1],
leaving the place as a tip [1], making request for "unreasonable"
improvements. Yes, you can employ an agent, but that will cost you 15% and
they can't insulate you from every problem and sometimes create problems of
their own.

At 4% return, I wouldn't touch it again with someone else's barge pole.

Though, even in the current market, there are properties/locations that
return 12%.

Are you expecting a capital gain here? If you are, would you consider
investing in a property and keeping it empty was a good investment?

YMMV

tim

[1] Having "spent" the deposit on the final month's rent that they didn't
pay.

On 06/08/2012 09:26, TheScullster wrote:
Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?


Thanks

Phil



I don't know exactly what the overheads would be - but presumably
there'll be property insurance and maintenance, plus agent's fees if
letting through an agency. And you'll need to pay for certificates of
gas and electricity safety, etc. etc.

If you've already got £150k with which to buy it, the £6k of income
represents a return of only 4% even if you keep the lot (which you
won't). You should be able to get at least that by investing it in a 3
or 5 year bond.

If you need to borrow the money, you'll be paying more in mortgage
interest than you're getting in rental - and will have to rely on the
property appreciating in value over time to get any return at all.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 06/08/12 10:26, TheScullster wrote:
Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around �150k and rental �500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the �6000 pa income?

How long will you keep the property. You probably wont see a capital
gain for many years. If prices fall then there is a potential loss, even
if you can sit out any drop in prices it may affect the rental value.



--
djc

Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?


Thanks

Phil


My son lets his house in Richmond North Yorks. He has had no problems, even
when the first tenant left another was found within a couple of weeks. No
maintenance issues other than a bit of damp which turned out to be tenant
induced through lack of ventilation.

He would now like to sell the house with sitting tenant, around £120,000
with £500 pcm rent if anyone is interested.

Mike

TheScullster wrote:
Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?


In a good year, you'd pay 20 - 30% for maintenance and other admin
costs, in a bad year, you might only make £1000 in net rental income due
to voids and "unusual" problems. There's a good chance that a few
tenants will leave owing you rent or cost you money to have evicted,
while trashing the place before they leave out of resentment. Avoid DSS
tenants like the plague.

According to a friend of mine who owns a dozen or so flats, students are
good renters who normally move out every July and back in every
September, giving you a month to decorate in between. Check with your
local Students' Union, who will vet the tenants for you, and will
administer the place for not a lot if you ask them. They can also get
bad tenants into trouble with the college as an incentive for good
behaviour. Then budget for a complete repaint and minor renovations
every year when you work out the rent you need to make it pay. The place
*will* suffer from condensation while they're in.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

tim..... wrote:

"TheScullster" wrote in message
...

Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances
permitting) this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the
current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect
to pay out of the £6000 pa income?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My own experience of doing this when returns on a "normal" property were
12% is that, without the capital gain, it was more hassle than it was
worth. Tenants not paying their rent, moving out before the end of term
[1], leaving the place as a tip [1], making request for "unreasonable"
improvements. Yes, you can employ an agent, but that will cost you 15%
and they can't insulate you from every problem and sometimes create
problems of their own.

IME as a tenant, Agents do absolutely **** all beyond handing the money and
running a credit check. cf when the boiler dies, middle of winter, baby in
the house and landlord on holiday:

Agent: "Nothing we can do..."

Me: "Hires local CORGI firm to fix it"

Landlord, later on return: "Thanks for finding a reasonable company to fix
it - here's your money back".

Luckily for me, the landlord was a decent bloke - but it taught me that teh
Agent was basicallya bottom feeding parasite.

At 4% return, I wouldn't touch it again with someone else's barge pole.

Though, even in the current market, there are properties/locations that
return 12%.

Are you expecting a capital gain here? If you are, would you consider
investing in a property and keeping it empty was a good investment?

YMMV

tim

[1] Having "spent" the deposit on the final month's rent that they didn't
pay.
--
Tim Watts

On 06/08/2012 11:11, Tim Watts wrote:
tim..... wrote:

"TheScullster" wrote in message
...

Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances
permitting) this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the
current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect
to pay out of the £6000 pa income?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My own experience of doing this when returns on a "normal" property were
12% is that, without the capital gain, it was more hassle than it was
worth. Tenants not paying their rent, moving out before the end of term
[1], leaving the place as a tip [1], making request for "unreasonable"
improvements. Yes, you can employ an agent, but that will cost you 15%
and they can't insulate you from every problem and sometimes create
problems of their own.

IME as a tenant, Agents do absolutely **** all beyond handing the money and
running a credit check. cf when the boiler dies, middle of winter, baby in
the house and landlord on holiday:

Agent: "Nothing we can do..."

Me: "Hires local CORGI firm to fix it"

Landlord, later on return: "Thanks for finding a reasonable company to fix
it - here's your money back".

Luckily for me, the landlord was a decent bloke - but it taught me that teh
Agent was basicallya bottom feeding parasite.

That is also true from the landlords point of view as well. But if you
are not in the same country then there isn't a lot of choice.

Sat on the other side of the fence whilst on secondment to Brussels we
rented our house out apparently without problems through an agent (save
for breakages and the odd boiler fault fuel line airlock - which we were
royally ripped off for mostly due to tenants forgetting to order heating
oil). Oil lifters can be tetchy with air in the line.

We had the house professionally cleaned before our return and still
found a spectacular mess. The master bedroom had been painted dark
camouflage khaki green and another bedroom shocking pink & purple.
Hardly in keeping with the tenancy agreement for pastel shades.

Our friends in the village said they had never seen the agent or his
representative visit even once. The agent was pretty good at keeping the
money flowing so he wasn't all bad but expect to take a big hit on
redecorating and kitchen replacement periodically.

It is truly amazing what hardware tenants can break!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 06/08/2012 10:24, tim..... wrote:

My own experience of doing this when returns on a "normal" property were
12% is that, without the capital gain, it was more hassle than it was
worth. Tenants not paying their rent, moving out before the end of term
[1], leaving the place as a tip [1], making request for "unreasonable"
improvements. Yes, you can employ an agent, but that will cost you 15%
and they can't insulate you from every problem and sometimes create
problems of their own.

At 4% return, I wouldn't touch it again with someone else's barge pole.

Though, even in the current market, there are properties/locations that
return 12%.

Are you expecting a capital gain here? If you are, would you consider
investing in a property and keeping it empty was a good investment?

YMMV

tim

[1] Having "spent" the deposit on the final month's rent that they
didn't pay.


I entirely agree with this. One of the biggest 'costs' is void periods
between tenancies. According to ARLA, the average is about 5 weeks a
year, which is another 10% of your rent whittled away.

He would now like to sell the house with sitting tenant

I bet he would! One of the bigger issues for landlords is an exit route.
It's often hard to sell with a tenant in situ, as tenants understandably
are not keen to allow viewings, may not keep the place pristine, etc.

on the other hand, selling without tenants in place means losing several
months' rent, paying rates, heating an empty house, risking
vandals/squatters.

On 06/08/2012 11:09, John Williamson wrote:
TheScullster wrote:
Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of
posters own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances
permitting) this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the
current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I
expect to pay out of the £6000 pa income?


In a good year, you'd pay 20 - 30% for maintenance and other admin
costs, in a bad year, you might only make £1000 in net rental income due
to voids and "unusual" problems. There's a good chance that a few
tenants will leave owing you rent or cost you money to have evicted,
while trashing the place before they leave out of resentment. Avoid DSS
tenants like the plague.

According to a friend of mine who owns a dozen or so flats, students are
good renters who normally move out every July and back in every
September, giving you a month to decorate in between. Check with your
local Students' Union, who will vet the tenants for you, and will
administer the place for not a lot if you ask them. They can also get
bad tenants into trouble with the college as an incentive for good
behaviour. Then budget for a complete repaint and minor renovations
every year when you work out the rent you need to make it pay. The place
*will* suffer from condensation while they're in.


Done it and couldnt sell quick enough, ok not the best area but the
hassle was draining, on the rental aspect I doubt if I made a profit
over 2 years between one thing and another. Sold house at profit and
invest abroad at 10% plus can make a bit more by playing the sterling
market. Personally I wouldnt touch property at the moment.

On Aug 6, 9:26*am, "TheScullster" wrote:

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around 150k and rental 500 pcm possibly more.

That's only 4% return. Factor in all the ongoing costs, etc., and you
can do better than that in a building society.

MBQ

"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:26:50 +0100, "TheScullster"
wrote:

Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances
permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect
to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?

I'm in the same position as you - in fact I'm off to look at a couple
of properties this afternoon - but I'm increasingly less certain about
it being a good way to go. In my case, it's a matter of trying to get
a better return on cash investments.

If I were you, I wouldn't assume that £500 pcm adds up to £6000 pa.
Unless you are in an area where demand outstrips supply and where
people stay put in one place for years at a time I would either
subtract an amount for void periods or subtract an amount for using an
agent or subtract an amount for using an agent yet still suffering
from voids.

Part of the arithmetic of buy to let used to be the increase in
capital value of the property. Unless you live in one of the few areas
where property prices are still increasing, you live in one of the
many areas where they are not - and there are people I trust who say
that we are many years away from bottoming out. I'm doing my
calculations on the basis that £Xooo investment will produce £Yoo
return year after year and even if the value of the asset falls,
that's what I've committed to produce the income. It could be many
years before I see an increase in value of my capital so I'm not
counting it and if £Yoo expressed as a percentage return on investment
is less than I could get somewhere safe then it's not worth the hassle
to me. Round my way there are 50-60 grand properties that will rent
out for 350-400 per month so the arithmetic looks a little better to
start with.

Other costs?
Insurance
Gas inspection and repairs
Energy Performance Certificate or whatever they call it nowadays
Running repairs - which will depend a lot on the property and your
tenant
You might also like to take a look at this:
http://www.newham.gov.uk/News/2012/J... approved.htm

..and ask how long before all councils are doing it.

Personally, I'm also looking into the advantages or otherwise of
buying a bigger house for myself and taking in a lodger. And I'm
looking very seriously at peer-to-peer lending as a way of getting a
decent return.

That's my opinion: YMMV. And naturally, being in the position I am
right now, I'm very interested in other replies!

Nick

Sound reasoning.
Too late for PV panels now!
It's hard to know what to do with any spare cash these days when armageddon
looms (possibly).

On 06/08/2012 11:41, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Aug 6, 9:26 am, "TheScullster" wrote:

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around 150k and rental 500 pcm possibly more.

That's only 4% return. Factor in all the ongoing costs, etc., and you
can do better than that in a building society.

As a business proposition, it's totally reliant on house prices going
up. Aren't there house price futures/bets you could utilise for a lot
less hassle? I think Betfair may have something.

"TheScullster" wrote in message
...

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

That's a poor buy.
The one I know a lot about was £75k a few moths ago and gets £500 pcm.
There are plenty at that sort of price in Tipton.
It was a repossession and need a new kitchen and bathroom but even then it
was under £85k.
It was sold lease hold but the freehold was included when the deal was
completed.
The bank didn't want the freehold for some reason a nice surprise for a
change.

If you are buying to make income you are obviously looking in the wrong
area.

On 06/08/2012 11:48, GB wrote:
On 06/08/2012 11:41, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Aug 6, 9:26 am, "TheScullster" wrote:

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price
of around 150k and rental 500 pcm possibly more.

That's only 4% return. Factor in all the ongoing costs, etc., and you
can do better than that in a building society.

As a business proposition, it's totally reliant on house prices going
up. Aren't there house price futures/bets you could utilise for a lot
less hassle? I think Betfair may have something.







Rental market seems to be booming inside the M25. A lot of flat owners
are stuck in the stamp duty trap and cannot afford to sell.

On Aug 6, 9:26*am, "TheScullster" wrote:
Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around 150k and rental 500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the 6000 pa income?

Thanks

Phil

In Scotland have landlord licencing which is basically just another
fee to pay except when getting into Houses in Multiple Occupancy, HMO,
where 3 or more unrelated people are living in same property, suddenly
you will require installed fire alarm system, fire extiguishers, fire
doors and before next year, sprinklers.Along with deposits held in
escrow.

This in addition to Energy Performance Certificates, EPC, never seen
or been asked for one, gas safety sign off and PAT testing on portable
appliances like kettles and toasters if the property is going to be
let furnished.

As a landlord you are providing someones home and have responsibilties
for that, this includes calls in the middle of the night for failed
heating , leaks , noisy neighbours and lonely tenants just wanting
someone to talk to.

As a landlord have had 3 difficult evictions, 2 fires and a murder in
last 20 years, in addition to redecorating at least once a year, void
periods, inventory walking or being trashed, companies trying to trace
previous tenants who have defaulted on credit.

Tenants regard landlords as rich beyond the dreams of avarice and fair
game for anything... `they can afford it`
The better job they have the worse tenants they make in my experience.

If you would like all of the above but 15% more expensive, employ a
letting agent.

There is always capaital gains tax waiting to swallow any ,er, capital
gain you might have hoped to make over time as well.

Cheers
Adam

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"TheScullster" wrote in message
...

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

That's a poor buy.
The one I know a lot about was £75k a few moths ago and gets £500 pcm.
There are plenty at that sort of price in Tipton.

There would be in Tipton.

It was a repossession and need a new kitchen and bathroom but even then it
was under £85k.
It was sold lease hold but the freehold was included when the deal was
completed.
The bank didn't want the freehold for some reason a nice surprise for a
change.

If you are buying to make income you are obviously looking in the wrong
area.

In article ,
TheScullster scribeth thus
Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?


Thanks

Phil



In response to this an other posts...

Research your market thoroughly and I mean that!.

We've got a small rental portfolio but in a thriving Uni city where
three bed ex council house is now around 240 K odd;!..

Vet your tenants first, go on your own instincts. Do check references
they should have them unless there're coming from abroad when perhaps
they won't but we've never had problems with overseas renters except the
little Japanese lady who insisted I wear slippers to go into the
bathroom. I said I would if she could find any size 14's;!..

If no references from their pervious landlord then be very very wary.
Try to find out why there leaving and if it seems a bit odd ask if you
can have the existing landlords number..

Get a proper Shorthold Tenancy agreement these run for 6 months and can
be extended if they want to stay and you want them there.

Take at last One months deposit and thats lodged with the Deposit
protection service. This is for damages and them not paying the rent etc
and cleaning if they do mess it up.

https://www.depositprotection.com/he...agent-landlord

Have it all in a written agreement and make -sure- they understand it..


Have a look at some sites such as,

www.landlordtoday.co.uk


Take pictures of ALL the rooms and give them copies on a CD ROM then any
disputes should be easier to solve.

Check the property often if you have any suspicions of them. Check they
pay the rental on time and chase them if its a few days late. Its to
keep them good.. Sometimes we have had them late but if there is a
good reason then its usually OK..

As to the agreement make sure it has clauses of what there supposed to
do like the garden etc and if they want to decorate it differently make
sure they ask first and its to be done to a "workmanlike" standard.

Pets?, mostly no but if they look like good tenets otherwise then a cat
or small dog if it can be accommodated and its not likely to cause you a
problem then allow it as most all others won't so you might be in a
better position. We've allowed a cat and a small jack Russell type dog
and they've been no problem.

No do bear in mind that this is LONG TERM stuff you don't make a killing
overnight its a long haul process and its best for you in a generally
rising market so your .. location as usual, is important.

Can you do better elsewhere with your money?. Difficult that some say
you can clear 4 or 5 % I'd like to know where and how safe and what
building society that is;!..

And if your renting a BS will usually charge you a higher rate so if you
need to raise a few quid do it on your existing house you'll get a
better rate..

Check with an accountant if you have one if not get an hours advice on
what's allowable and what's not against Tax etc..

And finally don't bother with an agent unless its a very long way away.
You can do just as well yourself and sometimes people prefer dealing
direct with the landlord.

You'll be on call 24/7 for any problems so if your not around make sure
theres a friendly handyman, Gasman you'll need one for boiler
inspections, electrician etc otherwise its all DIY if possible..

And best of luck, its been good for us but as others will say its all
long term .......



--
Tony Sayer

Many thanks to all responders.

I think I've seen enough to put me off the idea.
My estimate of £500 may have been a little low.

However, having fallen foul in a way with Part P, the talk of tighter
regulation on rental property (under East Riding Council) makes my blood run
cold.

A number of interesting and clearly well-informed posts - thanks


Phil

On 06/08/2012 14:28, TheScullster wrote:
East Riding Council) makes my blood run
cold.

Your're not the only one then? Whereabouts are you out of interest? I'm
just outside the Hull boundary.

On 06/08/2012 13:31, brass monkey wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"TheScullster" wrote in message
...

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

That's a poor buy.
The one I know a lot about was £75k a few moths ago and gets £500 pcm.
There are plenty at that sort of price in Tipton.

There would be in Tipton.


Quite!

The post-war PRS has always been about capital appreciation to some
degree. Without that, it's a poor return on capital. If you're devious
with tax you might just get a return.

However, for BTL-types I do think there's a tendency to think in terms
of retirement lump sums and fleecing pension funds - therefore the
rationaility gets a bit twisted, and cash returns are replaced to some
extent by 'safe as bricks and mortar' thinking.

Rob

TheScullster wrote:
Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of
posters own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances
permitting) this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the
current climate.
The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the
hassle!
If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I
expect to pay out of the £6000 pa income?

Now some years ago I used to do a lot of work for a couple southerners that
were buying properties in run down areas of South Yorkshire, tarting them up
and renting them. They sold up just before the crash.

Today they phoned me up to say that they are going to now do the same thing
again.They will again be going for the terraced house and DSS tenants
market. They made themselves rich the first time round doing this and they
are going to try to make themselves even richer.

Some houses made a loss in the rental part but the price of the house
increasing made them their money.

The guy I know that bought 3 bed semis for a better class of customer had 3
of them turned into cannabis factories that cost thousand to repair.

--
Adam

"stuart noble" wrote in message ...

On 06/08/2012 11:48, GB wrote:
On 06/08/2012 11:41, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Aug 6, 9:26 am, "TheScullster" wrote:

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price
of around 150k and rental 500 pcm possibly more.

That's only 4% return. Factor in all the ongoing costs, etc., and you
can do better than that in a building society.

As a business proposition, it's totally reliant on house prices going
up. Aren't there house price futures/bets you could utilise for a lot
less hassle? I think Betfair may have something.







Rental market seems to be booming inside the M25. A lot of flat owners
are stuck in the stamp duty trap and cannot afford to sell.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Booming" and good yield/good tenants are not the same thing. The only
positive that a booming rental demand offers you is limited voids. All the
other risks are still there

tim

"TheScullster" wrote in message
. uk...

Many thanks to all responders.

I think I've seen enough to put me off the idea.
My estimate of £500 may have been a little low.

However, having fallen foul in a way with Part P, the talk of tighter
regulation on rental property (under East Riding Council) makes my blood run
cold.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How's the holiday rental market there?

Total yields are much better, and tenants tend to be "better behaved", so
there isn't really much extra effort in running it (you can employ a local
cleaner for the weekly handover), though obviously there's extra effort/cost
in marketing plus the initial furnishing.

The treatment for CGT on exit is better as well

you can buy 6 of these:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-23687781.html

(I wouldn't holiday in it, but people do)

or perhaps 2 of these:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-23497539.html

Though not all park home managers will let you rent them out, but some will

tim

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:26:50 +0100, "TheScullster"
wrote:

Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of posters
own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances
permitting)
this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the current climate.

The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price
of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the hassle!

If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I expect
to
pay out of the £6000 pa income?

I'm in the same position as you - in fact I'm off to look at a couple
of properties this afternoon - but I'm increasingly less certain about
it being a good way to go. In my case, it's a matter of trying to get
a better return on cash investments.

If I were you, I wouldn't assume that £500 pcm adds up to £6000 pa.
Unless you are in an area where demand outstrips supply and where
people stay put in one place for years at a time I would either
subtract an amount for void periods or subtract an amount for using an
agent or subtract an amount for using an agent yet still suffering
from voids.

Part of the arithmetic of buy to let used to be the increase in
capital value of the property. Unless you live in one of the few areas
where property prices are still increasing, you live in one of the
many areas where they are not - and there are people I trust who say
that we are many years away from bottoming out. I'm doing my
calculations on the basis that £Xooo investment will produce £Yoo
return year after year and even if the value of the asset falls,
that's what I've committed to produce the income. It could be many
years before I see an increase in value of my capital so I'm not
counting it and if £Yoo expressed as a percentage return on investment
is less than I could get somewhere safe then it's not worth the hassle
to me. Round my way there are 50-60 grand properties that will rent
out for 350-400 per month so the arithmetic looks a little better to
start with.

Other costs?
Insurance
Gas inspection and repairs
Energy Performance Certificate or whatever they call it nowadays
Running repairs - which will depend a lot on the property and your
tenant
You might also like to take a look at this:
http://www.newham.gov.uk/News/2012/J... approved.htm

..and ask how long before all councils are doing it.

Personally, I'm also looking into the advantages or otherwise of
buying a bigger house for myself and taking in a lodger. And I'm
looking very seriously at peer-to-peer lending as a way of getting a
decent return.

That's my opinion: YMMV. And naturally, being in the position I am
right now, I'm very interested in other replies!

Sound reasoning.
Too late for PV panels now!

Great, less parasites parasiting.

It's hard to know what to do with any spare cash these days

Nope. Plenty of us get much better returns than
that, with full govt guarantees on the cash too.

when armageddon looms (possibly).

Just another silly little fantasy.

We survived the great depression fine. We'll survive the EU imploding too.

On 06/08/2012 17:43, ARWadsworth wrote:
TheScullster wrote:
Hi all

From posts to the group in the past, it is clear that a number of
posters own property for rental.

Is the market saturated after all the buy-to-let hype of recent years?
Is it a worthwhile investment if starting now(ish).

I am likely to be in a position to take on a property (finances
permitting) this year and wonder if this would be a good move in the
current climate.
The property is 3 bed semi in decent area - I am guessing at purchase
price of around £150k and rental £500 pcm possibly more.

Only very tentative interest ATM - not sure I could live with the
hassle!
If my figures are right on the rental income, what costs should I
expect to pay out of the £6000 pa income?

Now some years ago I used to do a lot of work for a couple southerners that
were buying properties in run down areas of South Yorkshire, tarting them up
and renting them. They sold up just before the crash.

Today they phoned me up to say that they are going to now do the same thing
again.They will again be going for the terraced house and DSS tenants
market. They made themselves rich the first time round doing this and they
are going to try to make themselves even richer.

Some houses made a loss in the rental part but the price of the house
increasing made them their money.

The guy I know that bought 3 bed semis for a better class of customer had 3
of them turned into cannabis factories that cost thousand to repair.

Taking a sidestep, you could buy a 2 bedroom place in Turkey for £30k or
less get some (not a lot) rental and have a holiday home for yourself.
It is safe to buy there ONLY if you get proper guidance from someone who
knows the system.

"tim....." wrote in message
...
"TheScullster" wrote in message
. uk...

Many thanks to all responders.

I think I've seen enough to put me off the idea.
My estimate of £500 may have been a little low.

It's just a different form of investment. At least, with £150K invested in a
property, you will always have some land and a pile of bricks to show for
it. In a bank it could just be wiped out, and you may or may not get your
guaranteed £85K back sometime in the future.

Some types of property can also be a bit more profitable than others; for
example a studio flat could be let for proportionately more rent than a
house, and being cheaper, can be more attractive to tenants. (And actually
most of my experience as a landlord has been to let by the room, where you
can make even more money compared with letting the whole house.)

--
Bartc

"Part Timer" wrote

East Riding Council) makes my blood run
cold.

Your're not the only one then? Whereabouts are you out of interest? I'm
just outside the Hull boundary.

Swanland - no not the part where the monied gentry hang out

How about you?

Phil

"tim....." wrote

Many thanks to all responders.

I think I've seen enough to put me off the idea.
My estimate of £500 may have been a little low.

However, having fallen foul in a way with Part P, the talk of tighter
regulation on rental property (under East Riding Council) makes my blood
run
cold.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How's the holiday rental market there?

Total yields are much better, and tenants tend to be "better behaved", so
there isn't really much extra effort in running it (you can employ a local
cleaner for the weekly handover), though obviously there's extra
effort/cost in marketing plus the initial furnishing.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a holiday let market around Hull!
Handy for the Humber Bridge, but that's about it.

Really would need to be heading north towards Beverley orYork for that to be
a realistic option I suspect.

Phil

"TheScullster" wrote in message
. uk...

"tim....." wrote

Many thanks to all responders.

I think I've seen enough to put me off the idea.
My estimate of £500 may have been a little low.

However, having fallen foul in a way with Part P, the talk of tighter
regulation on rental property (under East Riding Council) makes my blood
run
cold.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How's the holiday rental market there?

Total yields are much better, and tenants tend to be "better behaved", so
there isn't really much extra effort in running it (you can employ a local
cleaner for the weekly handover), though obviously there's extra
effort/cost in marketing plus the initial furnishing.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a holiday let market around Hull!
Handy for the Humber Bridge, but that's about it.

Really would need to be heading north towards Beverley orYork for that to be
a realistic option I suspect.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's still close enough for you to "manage" problems yourself.

Holiday home investors don't expect to live in the same village. The same
county is more than close enough


tim