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Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using
wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is
pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right
projection AND square in the guide.

Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and
looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few
pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?

Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.

I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a
fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.
Probably easier for plane blades.

MM
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On Monday, August 6, 2012 6:57:11 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using

wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is

pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right

projection AND square in the guide.



Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and

looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few

pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?



Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.



I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a

fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.

Probably easier for plane blades.



MM


Check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aDPZzMvVTA

This guy was on recent tour of the U.K. and Ireland. He is very good.

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On Monday, August 6, 2012 6:57:11 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using

wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is

pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right

projection AND square in the guide.



Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and

looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few

pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?



Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.



I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a

fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.

Probably easier for plane blades.



MM


Also check out the Richard Kell honing guide. It may answers your problem. Lee Valley tools are generally quite good, You can buy direct, though anything other than standard surface shipping, which can take a few weeks, costs so much its not worth it.

You are on the slippery slope here. Searching for the mystical sharpest edge. Shaving your arms. Slicing through loose sheets of paper. In the middle of this you might lose sight of the actual use of the tool.

I've seen serious discussions of the surface to be used for the scary sharp method where the flatness of plate glass was brought into question as the process of making float glass depends on gravity so in reality any sheet of plate glass is going to follow the curvature of the earth.
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fred wrote:
On Monday, August 6, 2012 6:57:11 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using

wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is

pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right

projection AND square in the guide.



Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and

looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few

pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?



Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.



I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a

fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.

Probably easier for plane blades.



MM


Also check out the Richard Kell honing guide. It may answers your problem. Lee Valley tools are generally quite good, You can buy direct, though anything other than standard surface shipping, which can take a few weeks, costs so much its not worth it.

You are on the slippery slope here. Searching for the mystical sharpest edge. Shaving your arms. Slicing through loose sheets of paper. In the middle of this you might lose sight of the actual use of the tool.

I've seen serious discussions of the surface to be used for the scary sharp method where the flatness of plate glass was brought into question as the process of making float glass depends on gravity so in reality any sheet of plate glass is going to follow the curvature of the earth.



Are the days gone when a carpenter just had a grinder and a stone? I
suspect the professional carpenter still does, and the home workshop and
diy carpenter faffles about with expensive sharpening toys.
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On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 06:57:11 +0100, MM wrote:

Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using
wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is
pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right
projection AND square in the guide.

Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and
looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few
pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?

Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.

I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a
fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.
Probably easier for plane blades.

Don't get me wrong: getting things right when sharpening stuff makes
all the difference in use but...

Have you tried sharpening your chisels freehand? After all these years
you must instinctively know what angles you want and it's just down to
the accuracy with which you can hold those angles on the abrasive.

I keep all my sharpening stones in a home-made box which is heavy
enough to stay in place when I'm using it on the bench so both hands
are free to control the chisel. Rather than using my shoulders and
elbows as if I were spokeshaving, I mentally 'lock' my arms in
position and rock gently back and forth on my feet so the blade slides
across the stone without wobbling. It probably looks ridiculous - but
hey - nobody's watching me - and I end up with really true and keen
blades. Other people may have even simpler techniques or tips to
offer.

Give it a try - you'll probably be delighted with the results. And if
you are not delighted then you can grind the mistakes out using the
expensive super-duper honing guide you go out to buy!

Nick
Who still uses his old Eclipse saw set so is not totally against using
guides when sharpening stuff


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On 06/08/2012 08:53, Nick Odell wrote:
On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 06:57:11 +0100, wrote:

Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using
wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is
pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right
projection AND square in the guide.

Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and
looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few
pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?

Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.

I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a
fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.
Probably easier for plane blades.

Don't get me wrong: getting things right when sharpening stuff makes
all the difference in use but...

Have you tried sharpening your chisels freehand? After all these years
you must instinctively know what angles you want and it's just down to
the accuracy with which you can hold those angles on the abrasive.

I keep all my sharpening stones in a home-made box which is heavy
enough to stay in place when I'm using it on the bench so both hands
are free to control the chisel. Rather than using my shoulders and
elbows as if I were spokeshaving, I mentally 'lock' my arms in
position and rock gently back and forth on my feet so the blade slides
across the stone without wobbling. It probably looks ridiculous - but
hey - nobody's watching me - and I end up with really true and keen
blades. Other people may have even simpler techniques or tips to
offer.

Give it a try - you'll probably be delighted with the results. And if
you are not delighted then you can grind the mistakes out using the
expensive super-duper honing guide you go out to buy!

Nick
Who still uses his old Eclipse saw set so is not totally against using
guides when sharpening stuff


I dont use chisels much, so much so that over the years I didnt realise
how bad they had become, also the stone was hollowed out. What I did for
a quick improvement was use a piece of flat pack wood and glued a few
grades of wet & dry to it. Not perfect but a vast improvement on my
chisels, now looking for a piece of plate glass. I use the eclipse
guide, its ok for me as I am not sharpening chisels every day.
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On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:42:00 +0100, ss wrote:


I dont use chisels much, so much so that over the years I didnt realise
how bad they had become, also the stone was hollowed out. What I did for
a quick improvement was use a piece of flat pack wood and glued a few
grades of wet & dry to it. Not perfect but a vast improvement on my
chisels, now looking for a piece of plate glass. I use the eclipse
guide, its ok for me as I am not sharpening chisels every day.


Luckily for me, once a stone becomes hollowed out it gets 'upgraded'
to stoning the fret radius on guitar fingerboards!

Nick
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"F Murtz" wrote in message
.com...

Are the days gone when a carpenter just had a grinder and a stone? I
suspect the professional carpenter still does, and the home workshop and
diy carpenter faffles about with expensive sharpening toys.


I use an eclipse guide and an oil stone without much trouble.
Its not as though working to a few thou makes any difference with wood.

I expect that if you spend hundreds of pounds on a plane you feel its
necessary to sharpen it perfectly.

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"ss" wrote in message
...

I dont use chisels much, so much so that over the years I didnt realise
how bad they had become, also the stone was hollowed out. What I did for a
quick improvement was use a piece of flat pack wood and glued a few grades
of wet & dry to it. Not perfect but a vast improvement on my chisels, now
looking for a piece of plate glass. I use the eclipse guide, its ok for me
as I am not sharpening chisels every day.


Plate glass is not float glass and may vary in flatness.
You can always grind it flat if you want.
Its easy to do but you need three pieces and you grind each one against the
others in a sequence that makes all three flat.
Its how you make optical flats for telescopes.

It used to be how you made engineers flats except you used a dye marker to
indicate high areas and scrapers to actually remove the material.

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On 06/08/2012 11:39, dennis@home wrote:


"ss" wrote in message
...

I dont use chisels much, so much so that over the years I didnt
realise how bad they had become, also the stone was hollowed out. What
I did for a quick improvement was use a piece of flat pack wood and
glued a few grades of wet & dry to it. Not perfect but a vast
improvement on my chisels, now looking for a piece of plate glass. I
use the eclipse guide, its ok for me as I am not sharpening chisels
every day.


Plate glass is not float glass and may vary in flatness.
You can always grind it flat if you want.
Its easy to do but you need three pieces and you grind each one against
the others in a sequence that makes all three flat.
Its how you make optical flats for telescopes.

It used to be how you made engineers flats except you used a dye marker
to indicate high areas and scrapers to actually remove the material.


I keep a chunk of yorkstone on the bench. Fine enough for my
requirements, and heavy enough to stand still.



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On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:37:23 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

fred wrote:
On Monday, August 6, 2012 6:57:11 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using

wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is

pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right

projection AND square in the guide.



Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and

looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few

pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?



Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.



I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a

fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.

Probably easier for plane blades.



MM


Also check out the Richard Kell honing guide. It may answers your problem. Lee Valley tools are generally quite good, You can buy direct, though anything other than standard surface shipping, which can take a few weeks, costs so much its not worth it.

You are on the slippery slope here. Searching for the mystical sharpest edge. Shaving your arms. Slicing through loose sheets of paper. In the middle of this you might lose sight of the actual use of the tool.

I've seen serious discussions of the surface to be used for the scary sharp method where the flatness of plate glass was brought into question as the process of making float glass depends on gravity so in reality any sheet of plate glass is going to follow the curvature of the earth.



Are the days gone when a carpenter just had a grinder and a stone? I
suspect the professional carpenter still does, and the home workshop and
diy carpenter faffles about with expensive sharpening toys.


Crikey, a grinder and a stone?!! We're not sharpening garden shears
here!

MM
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On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:34:30 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"F Murtz" wrote in message
d.com...

Are the days gone when a carpenter just had a grinder and a stone? I
suspect the professional carpenter still does, and the home workshop and
diy carpenter faffles about with expensive sharpening toys.


I use an eclipse guide and an oil stone without much trouble.
Its not as though working to a few thou makes any difference with wood.

I expect that if you spend hundreds of pounds on a plane you feel its
necessary to sharpen it perfectly.


I've bought all the hand tools I ever will, with the possible
exception of the Veritas guide maybe, one day.. My planes are 40 years
old.

I have to get a really sharp blade in this case because I am using the
chisel for trimming book blocks at the fore-edge. With patience the
method gives excellent results, but you have to keep the chisel as
sharp as possible. I trimmed a 20mm thick book block yesterday, 130
sheets of 80gsm paper, and had to re-hone the chisel three times.
Doesn't take that long, though. 20 minutes for trimming and honing.
The result is fantastic.

MM
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MM MM is offline
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On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:53:12 +0100, Nick Odell
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 06:57:11 +0100, MM wrote:

Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using
wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is
pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right
projection AND square in the guide.

Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and
looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few
pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?

Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.

I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a
fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.
Probably easier for plane blades.

Don't get me wrong: getting things right when sharpening stuff makes
all the difference in use but...

Have you tried sharpening your chisels freehand? After all these years
you must instinctively know what angles you want and it's just down to
the accuracy with which you can hold those angles on the abrasive.


No, I wouldn't try. I have complete faith in jigs, guides, rails etc.
Always have. I believe in reproducible results every time and I'm sure
I can achieve a better result with my honing guide than if I attempted
to sharpen freehand.

I keep all my sharpening stones in a home-made box which is heavy
enough to stay in place when I'm using it on the bench so both hands
are free to control the chisel. Rather than using my shoulders and
elbows as if I were spokeshaving, I mentally 'lock' my arms in
position and rock gently back and forth on my feet so the blade slides
across the stone without wobbling. It probably looks ridiculous - but
hey - nobody's watching me - and I end up with really true and keen
blades. Other people may have even simpler techniques or tips to
offer.

Give it a try - you'll probably be delighted with the results. And if
you are not delighted then you can grind the mistakes out using the
expensive super-duper honing guide you go out to buy!

Nick
Who still uses his old Eclipse saw set so is not totally against using
guides when sharpening stuff


I'm a sucker for jigs and guides! I bought a Wolfcraft dowelling jig
years ago and it's been fantastic.

MM
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On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:42:00 +0100, ss wrote:

On 06/08/2012 08:53, Nick Odell wrote:
On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 06:57:11 +0100, wrote:

Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using
wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is
pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right
projection AND square in the guide.

Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and
looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few
pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?

Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.

I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a
fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.
Probably easier for plane blades.

Don't get me wrong: getting things right when sharpening stuff makes
all the difference in use but...

Have you tried sharpening your chisels freehand? After all these years
you must instinctively know what angles you want and it's just down to
the accuracy with which you can hold those angles on the abrasive.

I keep all my sharpening stones in a home-made box which is heavy
enough to stay in place when I'm using it on the bench so both hands
are free to control the chisel. Rather than using my shoulders and
elbows as if I were spokeshaving, I mentally 'lock' my arms in
position and rock gently back and forth on my feet so the blade slides
across the stone without wobbling. It probably looks ridiculous - but
hey - nobody's watching me - and I end up with really true and keen
blades. Other people may have even simpler techniques or tips to
offer.

Give it a try - you'll probably be delighted with the results. And if
you are not delighted then you can grind the mistakes out using the
expensive super-duper honing guide you go out to buy!

Nick
Who still uses his old Eclipse saw set so is not totally against using
guides when sharpening stuff


I dont use chisels much, so much so that over the years I didnt realise
how bad they had become, also the stone was hollowed out. What I did for
a quick improvement was use a piece of flat pack wood and glued a few
grades of wet & dry to it. Not perfect but a vast improvement on my
chisels, now looking for a piece of plate glass. I use the eclipse
guide, its ok for me as I am not sharpening chisels every day.


Yesterday, before using my Eclipse again, I made up a setting jig for
it:

http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/30_deg_setup_jig.jpg

Facilitates the setting up of the correct projection/angle no end.

I'll add a 25° angle later, as I have a couple of old chisels that
could really do with a complete regrind.

MM
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"MM" wrote in message
...
Further to my query about the scary sharp method of honing using
wet-or-dry, I have to admit that my old Eclipse 36 honing guide is
pretty crap, really. It's a real pain to get the chisel at the right
projection AND square in the guide.

Now, I've heard a lot about the Veritas Mark II honing guide and
looked it up on Amazon. Talk about falling off one's chair! A few
pence shy of £54! Man, that's expensive. But is it worth it?

Looks like a decent, precision made tool, however.

I did get a good result in the end from my Eclipse, but it takes a
fair bit of trial and error to get that chisel sitting just right.
Probably easier for plane blades.

MM



FWIW I've used one of these Stanley guides...

http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CFgQ8wIwAA

....successfully. It took a little getting used to (and reading the
instructions - bah!) but I managed to get all my chisels very nicely
sharpened, even the ones which were very abused removing floorboards where
they hit nails, bits or plaster etc and were in a shocking state.

Aside - the bedroom wall was built over the ends of the floorboards which
were then hacked to death by generations of plumbers and electricians until
short lengths (the bits they could not get out) were left under the wall. I
had to split the floorboards to get them off the nails through the
wall/floorboard/joist and then notch the ends of the new boards around the
nails.

Paul DS.



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Paul D Smith wrote:

FWIW I've used one of these Stanley guides...
http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...y+honing+guide


I've got one, except the flap down bit of plastic to set the angle has
fell off.
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On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:09:15 +0100, MM wrote:

Yesterday, before using my Eclipse again, I made up a setting jig for
it:

http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/30_deg_setup_jig.jpg


Updated. 25° angle now added.

MM
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MM wrote:

I have to get a really sharp blade in this case because I am using the
chisel for trimming book blocks at the fore-edge. With patience the
method gives excellent results, but you have to keep the chisel as
sharp as possible. I trimmed a 20mm thick book block yesterday, 130
sheets of 80gsm paper, and had to re-hone the chisel three times.
Doesn't take that long, though. 20 minutes for trimming and honing.
The result is fantastic.


Hmm ... I do a bit of home binding, and one day will have to get around to
doing something like this. Do you have a 'proper' press for this? I'm keen
to find out how others trim 'on the cheap'...

Cheers
J^n

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On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 08:22:47 +0100, The Night Tripper
wrote:

MM wrote:

I have to get a really sharp blade in this case because I am using the
chisel for trimming book blocks at the fore-edge. With patience the
method gives excellent results, but you have to keep the chisel as
sharp as possible. I trimmed a 20mm thick book block yesterday, 130
sheets of 80gsm paper, and had to re-hone the chisel three times.
Doesn't take that long, though. 20 minutes for trimming and honing.
The result is fantastic.


Hmm ... I do a bit of home binding, and one day will have to get around to
doing something like this. Do you have a 'proper' press for this? I'm keen
to find out how others trim 'on the cheap'...

Cheers
J^n


I cut two pieces from 38mm x 38 mm timber, about 30cm long, sandwiched
them lengthwise and drilled two 10mm holes through both, one near each
end. The book block is clamped between them (2x 10mm bolts with
wingnuts), then one of the long pieces is clamped to a table or
Workmate with the book block vertical in the clamp. You leave about 3
- 4mm of the fore-edge of the book block sticking up proud of the
clamp.

Now you take a really sharp chisel, hold it flat on the top of the
long piece facing you, gently apply the blade to the book block. The
chisel is held at a slight angle (2 or 3 degrees) so that only the
corner of the chisel contacts the paper. Then you slide the chisel,
pulling it towards you, across the block, cutting one or two pages at
a time. YOU MUST KEEP IT FLAT!

Some instructions I've seen say to *push* the chisel away from you,
but I found pulling it easier.

When the first few snippets of paper come away from the book block,
you know you're on the right track! Hint: Get some old books from the
local library to practise on. Usually only 10p to 20p each.

After about a third of the way through I re-honed the chisel.
Alternatively, start the job with three chisels honed and ready. BTW I
tried a 25mm chisel and it didn't work as well as the 32mm.

Refinement: First apply a thin aluminium strip, about 30mm wide, to
the long piece you'll be sliding the chisel across on. This prevents
the chisel from cutting slivers off the wood. I've yet to apply my alu
strip - only bought it yesterday - and I plan to glue it on, maybe
with 2-component adhesive like Araldite. Alternatively, drill and
countersink and attach with screws, though then you're going to be
left with possible snag points. I reckon it'll stick okay with some
decent glue.

MM
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