Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one very
much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one very
much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!


I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I have
absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or linears of
any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light objectionable in any
way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs generate, and have great
trouble reading under them. None of them of any colour temperature or CRI
seem to suit me. About the only thing that I can say is that they use a
tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a highly discontinuous spectrum
compared to daylight or incandescent light, but then the spectrum from
linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect etc
etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it is not
for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour blindness, and
maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines to make
their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being able to
correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey were
also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems working
under incandescent light.

Arfa

Yes. These days I cannot see enough to worry about light for seeing but when
they first came out it was obvious that they were very odd. Now most people
I know look around for those rare very white ones so it can be done, and
really as the colour of the light is rather important as you have said, it
seems totally daft to go on using such a bad example.
Many might suggest its a ploy to get people to buy add in light like desk
lamps as these do seem to use whiter lights.
Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!


I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I have
absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or linears of
any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light objectionable in any
way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs generate, and have great
trouble reading under them. None of them of any colour temperature or CRI
seem to suit me. About the only thing that I can say is that they use a
tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a highly discontinuous spectrum
compared to daylight or incandescent light, but then the spectrum from
linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect
etc etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it is
not for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour blindness,
and maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines to
make their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being able
to correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey
were also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems
working under incandescent light.

Arfa

As an aside. If these are thre colour, and the idea is to make white from
red blue and green, and tvs use red blue and green to make white, then the
actual colour of the colours of rg and b used must be way off on the lamps.
When we used to make TVs in this fair land from scratch, we had a standard
white light made from yes a fl tube with calibrated colour. That was back
in the 70s so I just do not get it, all I can think is that the perceived
efficiency is greater using this stuff.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!


I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I have
absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or linears of
any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light objectionable in any
way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs generate, and have great
trouble reading under them. None of them of any colour temperature or CRI
seem to suit me. About the only thing that I can say is that they use a
tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a highly discontinuous spectrum
compared to daylight or incandescent light, but then the spectrum from
linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect
etc etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it is
not for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour blindness,
and maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines to
make their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being able
to correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey
were also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems
working under incandescent light.

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!


I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I have
absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or linears of
any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light objectionable in any
way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs generate, and have great
trouble reading under them. None of them of any colour temperature or CRI
seem to suit me. About the only thing that I can say is that they use a
tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a highly discontinuous spectrum
compared to daylight or incandescent light, but then the spectrum from
linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect
etc etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it is
not for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour blindness,
and maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines to
make their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being able
to correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey
were also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems
working under incandescent light.

Arfa

What do they use in Asda etc? I don't last long in these places before my
eyes start to smart.

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 15:05:01 +0100, "Mr Pounder"
wrote:


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!


I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I have
absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or linears of
any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light objectionable in any
way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs generate, and have great
trouble reading under them. None of them of any colour temperature or CRI
seem to suit me. About the only thing that I can say is that they use a
tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a highly discontinuous spectrum
compared to daylight or incandescent light, but then the spectrum from
linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect
etc etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it is
not for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour blindness,
and maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines to
make their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being able
to correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey
were also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems
working under incandescent light.

Arfa

What do they use in Asda etc? I don't last long in these places before my
eyes start to smart.



I think Asda use dimming high frequency ballasts with linier tubes,
and they do dim them when the night shift is working when the store is
closed.

They may even dim automatically depending on the amount of natural
light they get through the skylights, you would be hard pressed to
notice this if they do.

They also use LED lights strung low over fruit & veg.


--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:58:29 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very
much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

Could not agree more.

We have spent considerable effort in sourcing ones which are acceptable to
us. They are much whiter than standard "tungsten filament replacement"
ones but are not that horrible blue-ish colour of many higher colour
temperature lamps.

--
Rod

Top posted for Brian`s ease of reading

Think phosphor blending is a dark art, tri phosphor tubes are pretty
much a standard over old halo phosphors nowadays but its the choice
and realative mix of the phosphors that makes a difference.

With a CRT can vary the level of excitation given to the phosphor.

In a fluro tube you coat the tube , dose it with its fill and seal it
up, its getting the blend of phosphors right with the right gas mix
and pressure to get a decent quality of light.

At other end of quality manufacture its possible to get light out
with just about any old mix , it might have a horrible green cast ,
but it produces light.

Nichia the company that developed the first white and blue LED`s are a
phosphor blending company going back to the 1950`s, until supporting
Shuji Nakamura to develop blue and white LEDs in the mid nineties.
Nichia still make the nicest white LEDs.

Some specialist fluros appear white but have a boost in one colour or
other, like the ones with a red boost intended for fresh meat
counters.

Still prefer halogen for living areas myself.

Cheers
Adam


On Jul 14, 1:59*pm, "Brian Gaff" wrote:
As an aside. If these are thre colour, and the idea is to make white from
red blue and green, and tvs use red blue and green to make white, then the
actual colour of the *colours of rg and b used must be way off on the lamps.
*When we used to make TVs in this fair land from scratch, we had a standard
white light made from yes a fl tube with calibrated *colour. That was back
in the 70s so I just do not get it, all I can think is that the perceived
efficiency is greater using this stuff.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!"Arfa Daily" wrote in message

...









"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and *hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white *phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the *cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes *feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!

I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I have
absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or linears of
any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light objectionable in any
way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs generate, and have great
trouble reading under them. None of them of any colour temperature or CRI
seem to suit me. About the only thing that I can say is that they use a
tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a highly discontinuous spectrum
compared to daylight or incandescent light, but then the spectrum from
linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect
etc etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it is
not for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour blindness,
and maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines to
make their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being able
to correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey
were also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems
working under incandescent light.

Arfa

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 15:05:01 +0100, "Mr Pounder"
wrote:


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird
light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that
the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!


I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I
have
absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or linears
of
any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light objectionable in
any
way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs generate, and have great
trouble reading under them. None of them of any colour temperature or
CRI
seem to suit me. About the only thing that I can say is that they use a
tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a highly discontinuous
spectrum
compared to daylight or incandescent light, but then the spectrum from
linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect
etc etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it
is
not for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour
blindness,
and maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines
to
make their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being
able
to correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey
were also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems
working under incandescent light.

Arfa

What do they use in Asda etc? I don't last long in these places before my
eyes start to smart.



I think Asda use dimming high frequency ballasts with linier tubes,
and they do dim them when the night shift is working when the store is
closed.

They may even dim automatically depending on the amount of natural
light they get through the skylights, you would be hard pressed to
notice this if they do.

They also use LED lights strung low over fruit & veg.


--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Taa. I could not work in a place with lights like that.

Brian Gaff wrote

Yes. These days I cannot see enough to worry about light for seeing but
when they first came out it was obvious that they were very odd. Now most
people I know look around for those rare very white ones so it can be
done, and really as the colour of the light is rather important as you
have said, it seems totally daft to go on using such a bad example.

Many might suggest its a ploy to get people to buy add in light like desk
lamps as these do seem to use whiter lights.

Much more likely to just be the usual thing, it takes a bit of
time before anything new ends up with the best approach
as what the customer prefers takes some time to be seen.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird
light output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought
that the really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and
be much better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow
fuzzy one very much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!


I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I
have absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or
linears of any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light
objectionable in any way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs
generate, and have great trouble reading under them. None of them of any
colour temperature or CRI seem to suit me. About the only thing that I
can say is that they use a tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a
highly discontinuous spectrum compared to daylight or incandescent light,
but then the spectrum from linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect
etc etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it is
not for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour blindness,
and maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines to
make their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being able
to correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey
were also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems
working under incandescent light.

Arfa

Brian Gaff wrote

As an aside. If these are thre colour, and the idea is to make white from
red blue and green, and tvs use red blue and green to make white, then the
actual colour of the colours of rg and b used must be way off on the
lamps.
When we used to make TVs in this fair land from scratch, we had a standard
white light made from yes a fl tube with calibrated colour. That was back
in the 70s so I just do not get it, all I can think is that the perceived
efficiency is greater using this stuff.

Yeah, I bet that’s it when they do care about the efficiency.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird
light output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought
that the really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and
be much better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow
fuzzy one very much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!


I really don't know what it is about CFLs over linear flourescents. I
have absolutely no problem whatsoever seeing under incandescents or
linears of any colour persuasion, neither do I find their light
objectionable in any way. However, I hate the sickly light that CFLs
generate, and have great trouble reading under them. None of them of any
colour temperature or CRI seem to suit me. About the only thing that I
can say is that they use a tricolour phosphor mix, and this produces a
highly discontinuous spectrum compared to daylight or incandescent light,
but then the spectrum from linear flourescents isn't very clever, either.

Lots of people will now jump on the thread and say that they can't see
anything at all wrong with CFLs, and that the light from them is perfect
etc etc. Maybe this is true for them, and I'm sure most people, but it is
not for me, and apparently Brian. I do have a degree of colour blindness,
and maybe it's this, combined with the 'holey' spectrum, that combines to
make their light objectionable to me.

On a more practical level, I tried putting one in my bench light a while
back. Unfortunately, it was worse than useless for what I do (electronic
service work), as the discontinuous spectrum played havoc with being able
to correctly identify resistor colour code bands. Orange was barely
distinguishable from brown and sometimes red, and blue, green and grey
were also a problem with some resistor types. I have no such problems
working under incandescent light.

Arfa

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:05:42 +0100, polygonum wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:58:29 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very
much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

Could not agree more.

We have spent considerable effort in sourcing ones which are acceptable to
us. They are much whiter than standard "tungsten filament replacement"
ones but are not that horrible blue-ish colour of many higher colour
temperature lamps.

What's the make/model and source, please? I'd be interested in those.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:44:51 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:05:42 +0100, polygonum wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:58:29 +0100, Brian Gaff

wrote:

Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird
light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that
the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one
very
much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Brian

Could not agree more.

We have spent considerable effort in sourcing ones which are acceptable
to
us. They are much whiter than standard "tungsten filament replacement"
ones but are not that horrible blue-ish colour of many higher colour
temperature lamps.

What's the make/model and source, please? I'd be interested in those.

Hmmm. They are described as being Photo lamps -

4 DAYLIGHT BULBS 5000k, Trumpet Top,Photo,Craft€‹s,20w BC

obtained from:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/UKRMART

Not cheap... :-(

--
Rod

In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes:
Why is it that when one wants cfls, one is forced to have the weird light
output that many find hazy and hard to see in? I'd have thought that the
really white phosphoreds would add very little to the cost and be much
better for lighting purposes, or is the cream/green/yellow fuzzy one very
much more efficient or something?
It even makes my eyes feel tired even though I cannot see in it.

Lamp manufacturers spent some time trying to work out what the
light properties are that make people dislike CFLs versus filament
lamps.

The bottom line is they can't find any - in double blind trials,
for those who claim to dislike CFLs, their like or dislike of lamps
depends on if they think the lamps are CFLs or filament, and not if
the lamps are actually CFL or filament lamps.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Jul 15, 10:37*am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

Lamp manufacturers spent some time trying to work out what the
light properties are that make people dislike CFLs versus filament
lamps.

The bottom line is they can't find any - in double blind trials,
for those who claim to dislike CFLs, their like or dislike of lamps
depends on if they think the lamps are CFLs or filament, and not if
the lamps are actually CFL or filament lamps.

Sounds like the sort of study pharmaceutical companies try on us.
I hate the damned things.

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:17:12 +0100, polygonum wrote:

We have spent considerable effort in sourcing ones which are acceptable
to
us. They are much whiter than standard "tungsten filament replacement"
ones but are not that horrible blue-ish colour of many higher colour
temperature lamps.

What's the make/model and source, please? I'd be interested in those.

Hmmm. They are described as being Photo lamps -

4 DAYLIGHT BULBS 5000k, Trumpet Top,Photo,Craft€‹s,20w BC

obtained from:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/UKRMART

Not cheap... :-(

Ouch - almost as much as good LEDs!

Thanks for the link. I like the 'trumpet' shape as it exposes a bit more of
the tube so the output should be more than a straight spiral.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:16:23 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:17:12 +0100, polygonum wrote:

We have spent considerable effort in sourcing ones which are acceptable
to
us. They are much whiter than standard "tungsten filament replacement"
ones but are not that horrible blue-ish colour of many higher colour
temperature lamps.

What's the make/model and source, please? I'd be interested in those.

Hmmm. They are described as being Photo lamps -

4 DAYLIGHT BULBS 5000k, Trumpet Top,Photo,Craft€‹s,20w BC

obtained from:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/UKRMART

Not cheap... :-(

Ouch - almost as much as good LEDs!

I should have read that properly! Not as dear as I misthought - I've ordered
4. Could do with some 11W ones but there don't seem to be any.

--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...
On Jul 15, 10:37 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

Lamp manufacturers spent some time trying to work out what the
light properties are that make people dislike CFLs versus filament
lamps.

The bottom line is they can't find any - in double blind trials,
for those who claim to dislike CFLs, their like or dislike of lamps
depends on if they think the lamps are CFLs or filament, and not if
the lamps are actually CFL or filament lamps.

Sounds like the sort of study pharmaceutical companies try on us.
I hate the damned things.



I have to say, me too. There's a hotel that I stay in fairly regularly in
America. They changed all the reading lamps over the beds a few years ago,
and without the knowledge of this, I knew immediately what they had done,
the first time I switched one on. You can't see the actual lamp, as it is
behind a frosted panel, but once you realise that something is different,
and have a good look, you can see that the light is coming from a spiral CFL
now. I also find that if you are out walking at night, you can spot the
lounges (that have their curtains open) which are being lit by CFLs,
immediately. The light, to me at least, has a slightly 'sick' caste to it.

We have a pair of them in our bedside lights. Fortunately, I don't read at
night in bed at home, so it's of little consequence. However, when the
things are on, the light they give out is sort of 'thick' and 'creamy'
rather than 'sharp' and 'sparkly' (sorry, I can't come up with anything
better-descriptive !) like an incandescent. The bulbs I am currently using
in the main lighting areas of my house, are the ones where a pearl envelope
encloses a halogen capsule bulb. Even they are now getting hard to obtain in
a pearl version. I have been told by a friend who owns an electrical shop,
that there is now a company that does a bayonet or ES adaptor base to
accommodate halogen capsules, and a range of assorted shaped (conventional,
golf ball, candle etc) detachable pearl envelopes that screw onto the base
over the capsule. He says that you can't tell them, shape and size-wise,
from the original all-in-one incandescents that we all knew and loved ...

Arfa

On 15 Jul,
PeterC wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:16:23 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:17:12 +0100, polygonum wrote:

We have spent considerable effort in sourcing ones which are
acceptable to us. They are much whiter than standard "tungsten
filament replacement" ones but are not that horrible blue-ish
colour of many higher colour temperature lamps.

What's the make/model and source, please? I'd be interested in those.

Hmmm. They are described as being Photo lamps -

4 DAYLIGHT BULBS 5000k, Trumpet Top,Photo,Craft?s,20w BC

obtained from:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/UKRMART

Not cheap... :-(

Ouch - almost as much as good LEDs!

I should have read that properly! Not as dear as I misthought - I've
ordered 4. Could do with some 11W ones but there don't seem to be any.

I've just ordered 4. Would prefer lower wattage too. SWMBO won't accept 6500K
ones apart from the one in the futility room. The usual 2700K slow start ones
are abominable, like crap lady's makeup in colour. Whatever happened to 3500K
which would be more acceptable.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

In article ,
writes:
I've just ordered 4. Would prefer lower wattage too. SWMBO won't accept 6500K
ones apart from the one in the futility room. The usual 2700K slow start ones
are abominable, like crap lady's makeup in colour. Whatever happened to 3500K
which would be more acceptable.

They aren't acceptable to most people, which is why they will be hard
to find. The lux level required to make 3500K look acceptable (lookup
Kruithof Curve) would be hard to achieve with CFLs - you need several
linear fluorescent tubes, which is why you'll find 3500K in fluorescent
tubes, but not CFLs.

The 5000K and up lamps and really just gimicks - you are effectively
using a blue coloured lamp, because you will never get the lux level high
enough for 5000+K to look natural. You would have to line most of the
ceiling with fluorescent tubes.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:37:48 +0100, wrote:

On 15 Jul,
PeterC wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:16:23 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:17:12 +0100, polygonum wrote:

We have spent considerable effort in sourcing ones which are
acceptable to us. They are much whiter than standard "tungsten
filament replacement" ones but are not that horrible blue-ish
colour of many higher colour temperature lamps.

What's the make/model and source, please? I'd be interested in those.

Hmmm. They are described as being Photo lamps -

4 DAYLIGHT BULBS 5000k, Trumpet Top,Photo,Craft?s,20w BC

obtained from:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/UKRMART

Not cheap... :-(

Ouch - almost as much as good LEDs!

I should have read that properly! Not as dear as I misthought - I've
ordered 4. Could do with some 11W ones but there don't seem to be any.

I've just ordered 4. Would prefer lower wattage too. SWMBO won't accept 6500K
ones apart from the one in the futility room. The usual 2700K slow start ones
are abominable, like crap lady's makeup in colour. Whatever happened to 3500K
which would be more acceptable.

A very brief foray[1] with 6500K showed, among other aspects, that the light
didn't appear to be on (apart from the bleedin' obvious) but that the room
was just light - it was rather peculiar.
I've fitted 2*14W T5 3000K tubes in the kitchen and they're marginally less
'warm' than the 18W, 2700K that was there.

[1] It was a Prolite: buzzed, stank and wasn't up to its nominal wattage and
wasn't as bright as an ordinary CFL of the same wattage.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Weatherlawyer writes:

On Jul 15, 10:37Â*am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

Lamp manufacturers spent some time trying to work out what the
light properties are that make people dislike CFLs versus filament
lamps.

The bottom line is they can't find any - in double blind trials,
for those who claim to dislike CFLs, their like or dislike of lamps
depends on if they think the lamps are CFLs or filament, and not if
the lamps are actually CFL or filament lamps.

Sounds like the sort of study pharmaceutical companies try on us.
I hate the damned things.

Its probably just that they controlled for light level. Because
of the over-selling of light output of CFLs, in most places the
light is just much dimmer than incandescents (and as was
mentioned further up the thread, a mismatch between colour
temperature and level looks odd). When I put a CFL in the loo
here (a very small room) I didnt have one that claimed to be
comparable to a 40W bulb, so stuck a €œ100W equivalent€� one in.
The light looks fine, unlike elsewhere.

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2010-09-14)

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:48:10 +0100, Andrew Gabriel
wrote:

In article ,
writes:
I've just ordered 4. Would prefer lower wattage too. SWMBO won't accept
6500K
ones apart from the one in the futility room. The usual 2700K slow
start ones
are abominable, like crap lady's makeup in colour. Whatever happened to
3500K
which would be more acceptable.

They aren't acceptable to most people, which is why they will be hard
to find. The lux level required to make 3500K look acceptable (lookup
Kruithof Curve) would be hard to achieve with CFLs - you need several
linear fluorescent tubes, which is why you'll find 3500K in fluorescent
tubes, but not CFLs.

The 5000K and up lamps and really just gimicks - you are effectively
using a blue coloured lamp, because you will never get the lux level high
enough for 5000+K to look natural. You would have to line most of the
ceiling with fluorescent tubes.


Not speaking for anyone else, but I find the colour and brightness of the
already-mentioned trumpet top CFLs to be pretty darned good. Far nicer
than incandescent (standard lamps or most halogens). And far far far nicer
than most 2700 K CFLs.

And the 4200 K (IIRC) link lights in the kitchen are not too bad.

--
Rod