Improving insulation and sound
 

Just recently got `free` cavity wall & loft insulation and would like to
further improve the insulation and sound insulation in a couple of rooms.
In one bedroom there are 2 windows which although double glazed have
minimum spacing between the glass (approx cm) I also hear traffic noise
through them.
I was thinking of using some 10mm polycarbonate sheet in a frame to make
a third `pane` . I am using this method as it is something I could do
myself.
Am I likely to gain much by way of heat loss and sound insulation or
would it not be worth the effort?

thanks

Improving insulation and sound
 

On 09/07/2012 09:20, ss wrote:
Just recently got `free` cavity wall & loft insulation and would like to
further improve the insulation and sound insulation in a couple of rooms.
In one bedroom there are 2 windows which although double glazed have
minimum spacing between the glass (approx cm) I also hear traffic noise
through them.
I was thinking of using some 10mm polycarbonate sheet in a frame to make
a third `pane` . I am using this method as it is something I could do
myself.

Why 10mm? Do you expect to need it to be bullet proof as well?

5mm polycarbonate sheet or perspex is pretty well behaved in frames.
I secondary glazed the remaining single glazed windows with it. Really
small windows you can get away with 3mm sheet. You have to think
carefully about any opening windows depending on how you do it.

Am I likely to gain much by way of heat loss and sound insulation or
would it not be worth the effort?

Good thick heavy curtains will prevent more heat loss than secondary
glazing when they are closed. Hard to predict how well it will perform
against traffic noise since it depends on what sort of noise and how it
is coupling to the room. Wider spacing and having the inner pane damped
rather than rigid and taught like a drum skin will help.

You will need a UV stabilised grade with the UV protection facing
outwards. Glass stops some UV but not enough to avoid degradation of
water clear plastics in windows.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Improving insulation and sound
 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 09:20:32 +0100, ss wrote:

Am I likely to gain much by way of heat loss and sound insulation or
would it not be worth the effort?

As you already had DG there won't a be a big a saving on heat as going
from SG to DG. probably not a lot gained for sound either. The big snag
is that you will never get the gap between the secondary and main glazing
properly sealed an you will get condensation in that gap. This will lead
to rotten timber frames or mould/algae on plastic.

And what do you mean by "traffic noise" a busy main road/motorway at
50yds or the odd passing car on a quiet residential street?

--
Cheers
Dave.

Improving insulation and sound
 

On 09/07/2012 09:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
And what do you mean by "traffic noise" a busy main road/motorway at
50yds or the odd passing car on a quiet residential street?

A generally quiet residential street but with a couple of inconsiderate
kids with probably illegal exhausts that appear to like driving around
when I want to sleep.

Improving insulation and sound
 

"ss" wrote in message
...
Just recently got `free` cavity wall & loft insulation and would like to
further improve the insulation and sound insulation in a couple of rooms.
In one bedroom there are 2 windows which although double glazed have
minimum spacing between the glass (approx cm) I also hear traffic noise
through them.
I was thinking of using some 10mm polycarbonate sheet in a frame to make a
third `pane` . I am using this method as it is something I could do
myself.
Am I likely to gain much by way of heat loss and sound insulation

I doubt it. Its mostly the rigid heavy glass that helps the most with sound
insulation.

or would it not be worth the effort?

I doubt it would be.

Improving insulation and sound
 

In article ,
ss wrote:
Just recently got `free` cavity wall & loft insulation and would like to
further improve the insulation and sound insulation in a couple of rooms.
In one bedroom there are 2 windows which although double glazed have
minimum spacing between the glass (approx cm) I also hear traffic noise
through them.
I was thinking of using some 10mm polycarbonate sheet in a frame to make
a third `pane` . I am using this method as it is something I could do
myself.
Am I likely to gain much by way of heat loss and sound insulation or
would it not be worth the effort?

thanks


Normal double glazing isn't a very good sound insulator as the gap is too
small. If you fit secondary glazing the thickness of the wall away from
the original you'll get very good results. Glass will be better than
plastic because it is denser - the thicker the better. And it needs a good
air seal all round.

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Improving insulation and sound
 

"ss" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2012 09:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
And what do you mean by "traffic noise" a busy main road/motorway at
50yds or the odd passing car on a quiet residential street?

A generally quiet residential street but with a couple of inconsiderate
kids with probably illegal exhausts that appear to like driving around
when I want to sleep.

Getting their play thing taken away is cheapest.
Check their insurance and report them for the illegal bits.

Improving insulation and sound
 

Also if there are drafts from the original windows, secondary glazed sliding
panels can rattle annoying ly!


Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2012 09:20, ss wrote:
Just recently got `free` cavity wall & loft insulation and would like to
further improve the insulation and sound insulation in a couple of rooms.
In one bedroom there are 2 windows which although double glazed have
minimum spacing between the glass (approx cm) I also hear traffic noise
through them.
I was thinking of using some 10mm polycarbonate sheet in a frame to make
a third `pane` . I am using this method as it is something I could do
myself.

Why 10mm? Do you expect to need it to be bullet proof as well?

5mm polycarbonate sheet or perspex is pretty well behaved in frames.
I secondary glazed the remaining single glazed windows with it. Really
small windows you can get away with 3mm sheet. You have to think carefully
about any opening windows depending on how you do it.

Am I likely to gain much by way of heat loss and sound insulation or
would it not be worth the effort?

Good thick heavy curtains will prevent more heat loss than secondary
glazing when they are closed. Hard to predict how well it will perform
against traffic noise since it depends on what sort of noise and how it is
coupling to the room. Wider spacing and having the inner pane damped
rather than rigid and taught like a drum skin will help.

You will need a UV stabilised grade with the UV protection facing
outwards. Glass stops some UV but not enough to avoid degradation of water
clear plastics in windows.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Improving insulation and sound
 

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Also if there are drafts from the original windows, secondary glazed
sliding panels can rattle annoying ly!

To work correctly, sound wise, both need to be air sealed. Which means the
secondary glazing should have runners similar to that used on cars which
holds the glass firmly.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Yeah, new double glazed windows are probably your best bet.

Secondary polycarbonate will lead to condensation and wont be dense enough to prevent sound from entering the room.

A decent sealed DG window is your best bet - unfortunatley it can be costly, but you can find some good deals out there.

Improving insulation and sound
 

On 09/07/2012 19:22, Giss wrote:
Yeah, new double glazed windows are probably your best bet.

Secondary polycarbonate will lead to condensation and wont be dense
enough to prevent sound from entering the room.

A decent sealed DG window is your best bet - unfortunatley it can be
costly, but you can find some good deals out there.




I reckoned it would be but finances are a major issue at the moment so
looking to DIY if its worth the effort.
I was hoping that I would get some sound insulation from it, the
condensation not an issue as I would slide them open during the day as
the sound issue was more for during sleep time.

Improving insulation and sound
 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 00:03:27 +0100, ss wrote:

I reckoned it would be but finances are a major issue at the moment so
looking to DIY if its worth the effort. I was hoping that I would get
some sound insulation from it, ...

You'll get a bit but not a great deal.

As your problem is a boy racer or two, as has already been mentioned make
sure their toys are fully legal. Check the tax is in date and for that
car (each tax disc has the regn number on it), not sure if you can get a
go/no go online with regards insurance but I think you can for the MOT
(if the car is old enough to require one). Report occasions of
disturbance to the police, keep a record to be used in evidence for Anti
Social Behavior.

the condensation not an issue as I would slide them open during the day
as the sound issue was more for during sleep time.

You might start with those good intentions but I doubt they'll last. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

Improving insulation and sound
 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:54:18 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Normal double glazing isn't a very good sound insulator as the gap is too
small. If you fit secondary glazing the thickness of the wall away from
the original you'll get very good results. Glass will be better than
plastic because it is denser - the thicker the better. And it needs a good
air seal all round.

Bingo all around, there.
I rented a house on a busy main road - double-glazed with secondary
glazing of fairly thick glass in an aluminium frame which could be
removed for cleaning. The whole assembly sat in a channel arrangement
which allowed the halves to slide and overlap. When shut, the noise
was reduced to below the point of normality - instead of a main road
it was like being in a cul-de-sac. In fact, it was so good at sealing,
there was an extra wall powervent fitted.

Improving insulation and sound
 

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:54:18 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Normal double glazing isn't a very good sound insulator as the gap is
too small. If you fit secondary glazing the thickness of the wall away
from the original you'll get very good results. Glass will be better
than plastic because it is denser - the thicker the better. And it
needs a good air seal all round.

Bingo all around, there. I rented a house on a busy main road -
double-glazed with secondary glazing of fairly thick glass in an
aluminium frame which could be removed for cleaning. The whole assembly
sat in a channel arrangement which allowed the halves to slide and
overlap. When shut, the noise was reduced to below the point of
normality - instead of a main road it was like being in a cul-de-sac. In
fact, it was so good at sealing, there was an extra wall powervent
fitted.

It's standard practice when using a non purpose built studio as a studio
for a TV series etc. Just get the original windows into decent repair
draught wise and add secondary glazing on the inside of the wall. Not
(relatively) expensive and gives a very worthwhile reduction in noise.
Standard double glazing doesn't as the gap is too small - but is ok for
heat insulation.

--
*Even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn now and again *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.