Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue?
or...?

regards
--
Tim Lamb

On 10/05/2012 21:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue? or...?

regards

Car batteries are designed to deliver lots of cranking amps. They are
generally destroyed by a deep discharge, or the very least have their
capacity severely reduced.

Use a leisure battery which is more rugged and can cope with deep
discharge, or should I say are less damaged by a deep discharge. I'm
pretty certain you can get devices which switches off a load once
battery volts get below 11V.

There is a thought that leisure batteries can be part recovered by
charging at 15V or so to reverse sulphation, but I don't have any
experience of this or if applies to car batteries. My experience of car
batteries is that unless they stay fully charged, they are relatively
fickle beasts.

On 10/05/2012 21:23, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/05/2012 21:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue? or...?

regards

Car batteries are designed to deliver lots of cranking amps. They are
generally destroyed by a deep discharge, or the very least have their
capacity severely reduced.

Use a leisure battery which is more rugged and can cope with deep
discharge, or should I say are less damaged by a deep discharge. I'm
pretty certain you can get devices which switches off a load once
battery volts get below 11V.

Any boat store will sell these - they cut your battery to make sure you
have enough power to start engine

Rick Hughes wrote:
On 10/05/2012 21:23, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/05/2012 21:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue?
or...?

regards

Car batteries are designed to deliver lots of cranking amps. They are
generally destroyed by a deep discharge, or the very least have their
capacity severely reduced.

Use a leisure battery which is more rugged and can cope with deep
discharge, or should I say are less damaged by a deep discharge. I'm
pretty certain you can get devices which switches off a load once
battery volts get below 11V.

Any boat store will sell these - they cut your battery to make sure you
have enough power to start engine

and then the ponys get out..

buy a trickle charger and a waterproof pot...



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Rick Hughes wrote:
On 10/05/2012 21:23, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/05/2012 21:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue?
or...?

regards

Car batteries are designed to deliver lots of cranking amps. They are
generally destroyed by a deep discharge, or the very least have their
capacity severely reduced.

Use a leisure battery which is more rugged and can cope with deep
discharge, or should I say are less damaged by a deep discharge. I'm
pretty certain you can get devices which switches off a load once
battery volts get below 11V.
Any boat store will sell these - they cut your battery to make sure
you have enough power to start engine

and then the ponys get out..

buy a trickle charger and a waterproof pot...

Or a mains energizer! Actually these seem to *tick* on medium wave radio
reception.

Escaping ponies only an issue with a stranger as the regulars avoid the
tape whether it is energised or not. Hence the probably flat for weeks
battery:-(

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On 11/05/2012 09:10, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes

buy a trickle charger and a waterproof pot...

Or a mains energizer! Actually these seem to *tick* on medium wave radio
reception.

Or a PV panel and/or a Rutland Windcharger, if it's too far away from
the mains.

Hence the probably flat for weeks battery :-(

That's guaranteed to kill any type of Pb-acid battery IME. NiFe, NiCd
and NiMH don't suffer that way, provided you don't allow individual
cells to become reverse-charged.

--
Andy

On Thu, 10 May 2012 22:33:04 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Any boat store will sell these - they cut your battery to make sure you
have enough power to start engine

Any half decent boat doesn't use the engine battery for general
"house" electricals. But such a device is still a good idea with deep
discharge batteries.

As for Mr Lamb's battery it's dead, it's not worth the faffing about
trying to resurect and even if it can be brought back it will still
be unreliable. Weigh it in.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 10/05/2012 21:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue? or...?

regards

Provided you don't overheat it and keep it topped up, an extended charge
at a few amps might recover it, although I wouldn't be that hopeful.

It is *really* worth using leisure (deep discharge)rather than car
batteries for electric fencers. It just isn't worth the trouble trying
to manage with ex-car batteries, in my experience.

Tim Lamb wrote

Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence.
Likely to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged
state and possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue?

Not that so much as sitting around flat. They don't like that at all.
\
She's dead, Tim. You into necrophilia ?

or...?

Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue? or...?


In this case charge them double. Swine.

regards


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence.

Car batteries aren't suitable. Use a deep discharge battery, as sold for
golf buggies, caravans, etc. ('Leisure' batteries).

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence.

Car batteries aren't suitable. Use a deep discharge battery, as sold for
golf buggies, caravans, etc. ('Leisure' batteries).

Bill

they aren't suitable either.

Still die on deep discharge, they just go a BIT deeper that's all, and
its not that much.

Friend of mine had a canal boat,..tried em all. All failed.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence.

Car batteries aren't suitable. Use a deep discharge battery, as sold
for golf buggies, caravans, etc. ('Leisure' batteries).

Bill

they aren't suitable either.

Still die on deep discharge, they just go a BIT deeper that's all, and
its not that much.

Friend of mine had a canal boat,..tried em all. All failed.


I'm speaking from considerable personal experience, not merely an
anecdote from a friend.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence.

Car batteries aren't suitable. Use a deep discharge battery, as sold
for golf buggies, caravans, etc. ('Leisure' batteries).

Bill

they aren't suitable either.

Still die on deep discharge, they just go a BIT deeper that's all, and
its not that much.

Friend of mine had a canal boat,..tried em all. All failed.


I'm speaking from considerable personal experience, not merely an
anecdote from a friend.

Bill

so you have run several deep discharge batteries totally flat, and they
have all survived?



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence.
Likely to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged
state and possibly exposed to overnight frost.
Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse
person has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an
issue? or...?


In this case charge them double. Swine.

It is a loan! If this is going to happen again, I want to retrieve mine
before damage is done.

Horse people always seem to have contacts who supply free sound
batteries. In this case, a car recovery operation who have just ceased
business.

regards
--
Tim Lamb

On Thu, 10 May 2012 21:03:36 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:


Won't take a charge!

Using what charger? A lot of "intelligent" chargers are anything but
and if presented with a totally dead battery refuse to charge it (many
APC UPS exhibit this useful behaviour). The cure is to put any old
simple charger on the battery for 30 min's then reconnect the
expensive posh one which will work.

In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Thu, 10 May 2012 21:03:36 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:


Won't take a charge!

Using what charger? A lot of "intelligent" chargers are anything but
and if presented with a totally dead battery refuse to charge it (many
APC UPS exhibit this useful behaviour). The cure is to put any old
simple charger on the battery for 30 min's then reconnect the
expensive posh one which will work.

I doubt there is much intelligence about this charger. Probably supplied
by Draper for agricultural use.

It has settings for 12 or 24V and normal or boost. Output fused at 15
Amps.

On normal, the battery quickly rises to 13.6V which decays rapidly once
the charger is disconnected.

I have not tried extended charging on boost.

regards



--
Tim Lamb

On Thu, 10 May 2012 22:10:10 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Thu, 10 May 2012 21:03:36 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:


Won't take a charge!

Using what charger? A lot of "intelligent" chargers are anything but
and if presented with a totally dead battery refuse to charge it (many
APC UPS exhibit this useful behaviour). The cure is to put any old
simple charger on the battery for 30 min's then reconnect the
expensive posh one which will work.

I'd not call APC chargers that intelligent as they routinely
overcharged their batteries in the late 1990's, whether they knew
nothing about the chemistry of the cells they were using or they did
know about them and did it deliberately I don't know.

--

Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue? or...?

regards
I were thinking like. Can't you use pony to work a thing like a big
hamster wheel with a dynermow or an altercator to keep battery charged
up like?

Turnip Tom

On 10/05/2012 21:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue? or...?

regards
if it is not sealed ... I recovered one battery by washing out then
filling with battery acid (not distilled water) .. and left it on long
slow trickle charge ...

In message , Rick Hughes
writes
On 10/05/2012 21:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue? or...?

regards
if it is not sealed ... I recovered one battery by washing out then
filling with battery acid (not distilled water) .. and left it on long
slow trickle charge ...

Not sealed but where did you acquire battery acid?

regards

--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Rick Hughes
writes
On 10/05/2012 21:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue?
or...?

regards
if it is not sealed ... I recovered one battery by washing out then
filling with battery acid (not distilled water) .. and left it on long
slow trickle charge ...

Not sealed but where did you acquire battery acid?

Same place you buy car batterys etc.

In article ,
Huge wrote:

Talking of which ... can anyone recommend a good battery charger? My one
went to the great scrapyard in the sky.


If it's just for general use, The Lidl ones which come up several times a
year are excellent. Cost about 13 quid. Will charge a car battery
overnight. Change to a maintenance charge after charging too - so can be
left on indefinitely. Small and light enough to fit in a large pocket.

--
*Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2012-05-11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:

Talking of which ... can anyone recommend a good battery charger? My
one went to the great scrapyard in the sky.


If it's just for general use, The Lidl ones which come up several
times a year are excellent.

That means I have to keep an eye on Lidl, then find out where the
nearest on is, then get there before they run out. I'm not sure I can be
faffed.

There are similar ones - probably from the same factory but with cosmetic
differences - available easily on Ebay etc, but at about x3 the price.

I also have a Halfords one bought earlier which claims to have an 11 amp
output, but seems to take as long to charge a battery as the Lidl one -
and takes up lots more space. So saying, it works ok.

I've got one of the Lidl ones fitted permanently to the SD1 in the spare
wheel well, with an external waterproof mains socket. At that price it
makes some sense.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11 May 2012 11:29:24 GMT, Huge wrote:

If it's just for general use, The Lidl ones which come up several
times
a year are excellent.

That means I have to keep an eye on Lidl, then find out where the
nearest on is, then get there before they run out. I'm not sure I can be
faffed.

CostCo normally have something very similar in stock.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Huge wrote:
Talking of which ... can anyone recommend a good battery charger? My one
went to the great scrapyard in the sky.


What do you want to use it for?

Bill

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue?
or...?

Yes. Car lead acid batteries ain't designed for deep discharge. Horse
person should have bought the more expensive types designed for this. But
better still use a load which switches off before taking the battery too
low.

You could try a long charge with a high voltage DC source, like an ancient
unregulated battery charger - or a bench PS set to about 30 volts. But
make sure the bench one has current regulation as if the battery does
recover, it will try to draw lots of current at this voltage.

--
*When did my wild oats turn to prunes and all bran?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue?
or...?

Yes. Car lead acid batteries ain't designed for deep discharge. Horse
person should have bought the more expensive types designed for this. But
better still use a load which switches off before taking the battery too
low.

You could try a long charge with a high voltage DC source, like an ancient
unregulated battery charger - or a bench PS set to about 30 volts. But
make sure the bench one has current regulation as if the battery does
recover, it will try to draw lots of current at this voltage.

Hmm.. I suppose I could try the 24V setting on trickle charge,
supervised!

regards


--
Tim Lamb

On 11/05/2012 09:29, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
Newish car battery employed to power pony field electric fence. Likely
to have been left connected well beyond the fully discharged state and
possibly exposed to overnight frost.

Won't take a charge! Yes, I know, throw it away. However, horse person
has gone off with my sound spare. Is *over* discharging an issue?
or...?

Yes. Car lead acid batteries ain't designed for deep discharge. Horse
person should have bought the more expensive types designed for this.
But
better still use a load which switches off before taking the battery too
low.

You could try a long charge with a high voltage DC source, like an
ancient
unregulated battery charger - or a bench PS set to about 30 volts. But
make sure the bench one has current regulation as if the battery does
recover, it will try to draw lots of current at this voltage.

Hmm.. I suppose I could try the 24V setting on trickle charge,
supervised!

regards


For the future they could get a solar trickle charger.

In message , Gary
writes
Yes. Car lead acid batteries ain't designed for deep discharge. Horse
person should have bought the more expensive types designed for
this. But
better still use a load which switches off before taking the battery too
low.

You could try a long charge with a high voltage DC source, like an
ancient
unregulated battery charger - or a bench PS set to about 30 volts. But
make sure the bench one has current regulation as if the battery does
recover, it will try to draw lots of current at this voltage.

Hmm.. I suppose I could try the 24V setting on trickle charge,
supervised!

regards


For the future they could get a solar trickle charger.

What! You expect a horse person to spend money on something not directly
attached to their pet?

I think I will pass on the groups comments about fully discharging *car*
batteries and make sure my battery is returned before this happens. Now,
if I only knew the current drawn by the energizer....

regards

--
Tim Lamb

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
You could try a long charge with a high voltage DC source, like an
ancient unregulated battery charger - or a bench PS set to about 30
volts. But make sure the bench one has current regulation as if the
battery does recover, it will try to draw lots of current at this
voltage.

Hmm.. I suppose I could try the 24V setting on trickle charge,
supervised!

If it will actually produce an output to a totally flat battery - many
modern units won't.

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.