"Dave Plowman (News)" :
In article ,
Steve O wrote:
No power, no phone service, no signalling on roads and railways, no
train services (etc). No, I simply can't see how the disruption of any
of these services could possible put lives at risk.

You forgot about hospital equipment, ventilators in the home, etc.
The OP obviously doesn't realize that power cuts can kill people.

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.

There was a case recently where it was the operating theatre's backup
power supply cable that got nicked. Fortunately the loss was quickly
discovered but operations still had to be cancelled.

--
Mike Barnes

On Jan 23, 11:25*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *Steve O wrote:

*No power, no phone service, no signalling on roads and railways, no
train services (etc). No, I simply can't see how the disruption of any
of these services could possible put lives at risk.
You forgot about hospital equipment, ventilators in the home, etc.
The OP obviously doesn't realize that power cuts can kill people.

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.


If there is a power cut down to some unexpected fault, that's one
thing.
Deliberately causing one is another matter entirely.

On Jan 23, 2:30*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *Huge wrote:

Nowadays, owners of dangerous equipment such as high voltage overhead
lines or underground cables, have to protect the offenders agianst
their own stupidity.
Not in my world. Stupidity is a capital offence.

Then the world would be empty, except for the hangman. So who would hang
him?


Perhaps he's stupid enough to be standing on the trapdoor when he
pulls the lever, falls through, and breaks his neck.

--
Halmyre

In article ,
Frank Erskine wrote:
Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power
is essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

If home dialyse - or anything else like that - is such that it must be
carried out at a specific time, it would be sensible to have a standby
source of electricity.

Despite all the bile spouted here, you're more likely to have an
'ordinary' power cut than one caused by cable theft.

--
*Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
harry wrote:
If there is a power cut down to some unexpected fault, that's one
thing.

What if it's caused by poor maintence or ineptitude? Would you hang the
person responsible too?

Deliberately causing one is another matter entirely.

Then let the law deal with it.

--
*I want it all and I want it delivered

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jan 23, 11:25*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *Steve O wrote:

*No power, no phone service, no signalling on roads and railways, no
train services (etc). No, I simply can't see how the disruption of any
of these services could possible put lives at risk.
You forgot about hospital equipment, ventilators in the home, etc.
The OP obviously doesn't realize that power cuts can kill people.

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.

But when those power cuts do happen it causes delays to transport
especially trains
you can;'t always have a backup immidiatly to hand.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-16602333


--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jan 24, 10:16*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *Frank Erskine wrote:

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power
is essential, backup should be provided.
Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

If home dialyse - or anything else like that - is such that it must be
carried out at a specific time, it would be sensible to have a standby
source of electricity.

It's not the electricity that is stolen, it's the cable carrying it.
Imagine you go home to find someones ripped out yuor twin and earth
from your CU. having a gernerators to hand won;t sovled all your
problems,
and it takesd time to replace the infra structure, and if there;s any
fried bodies around
someone has to scoop that up too.




Despite all the bile spouted here, you're more likely to have an
'ordinary' power cut than one caused by cable theft.

For the average consumer supply, yes but to be affected by cable
theft....
it goes on more than you think.
http://www.rail.co/2011/11/22/btp-ap...il-disruption/

A friedn that works for socail servicesw had someone turn up with a
'melted foot/ankle
where they tried to pull a cable out, he was homeless and believed
mentally ill,
this was a day after, he hadn;t been to a hospital or any medical help
he turned up at
soup/help 'kitchen'. He was sent/foirced to hospital in the end.

--
*Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.*

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/01/2012 10:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:
If there is a power cut down to some unexpected fault, that's one
thing.

What if it's caused by poor maintence or ineptitude? Would you hang the
person responsible too?

Deliberately causing one is another matter entirely.

Then let the law deal with it.


Or the "Hand of God", as in this instance.

--
Moving things in still pictures

On 23/01/2012 17:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articlebcCdnUUjJY_RD4DSnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:
On 23/01/2012 16:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
They were putting other people's lives at risk for personal gain,
with a total contempt for anyone else's needs, requirements, safety
or well-being.

How do you know they were putting lives at risk? They certainly didn't
care about anyone other than themselves - but what thief does?
What's far more worrying is the self righteous hang them and flog them
brigade. As if they never ever broke the law.


How do you KNOW otherwise? Suppose they had got away with it, leaving a
live wire exposed to the elements and passers by...

You're supposing - again.


But I'm not alone in doing so, unless you are claiming it as an
exclusive right and anyone else is an imposter?

Just remember - speeding puts other's life at risk. If you want
dramatics.


...or even red herrings.

Please show here I have suggested "hanging and flogging". Perhaps I was
merely marvelling at Darwinism in action. They would seem to have been
the architects of their own destiny and I, for one, see no reason to
shed a tear for their passing.

Of course not. Didn't think you were human.


Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.

Hang on, got it! You go around nicking metal and power cables and this
gives you a "moral" right to defend such actions. And, when it all goes
tits up, it's society's fault.

Let me sum it up. You don't care if someone lives or dies because they
have done something you disapprove of.


I really do not care if someone is too stupid to understand the
consequences of his or her own ILLEGAL actions. I care even less if
their ILLEGAL actions compromise the safety and well-being of law
abiding people.

But expect that same person to be worried about others?


Well, it should be patently obvious even to a blinkered bigot like you
that they don't give a F*CK about anyone but themselves and consequently
reap the rewards of their own actions.


--
Moving things in still pictures

On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes


"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.



Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.


An electrifying experience?

Mike


Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!

--
Moving things in still pictures

On 24/01/2012 11:26, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes


"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.



Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.


An electrifying experience?

Mike


Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!


Ah! I knew you couldn't resist that.

--
Bod

On 24/01/2012 11:27, Bod wrote:
On 24/01/2012 11:26, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes


"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.



Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.


An electrifying experience?

Mike


Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!


Ah! I knew you couldn't resist that.


Well, I was ever a live wire.

--
Moving things in still pictures

On 24/01/2012 11:36, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 24/01/2012 11:27, Bod wrote:
On 24/01/2012 11:26, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes


"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.



Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.


An electrifying experience?

Mike


Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!


Ah! I knew you couldn't resist that.


Well, I was ever a live wire.



I bet you've lots of contacts?

--
Bod

On 24/01/2012 11:40, Bod wrote:
On 24/01/2012 11:36, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 24/01/2012 11:27, Bod wrote:
On 24/01/2012 11:26, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes


"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.



Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.


An electrifying experience?

Mike


Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!


Ah! I knew you couldn't resist that.


Well, I was ever a live wire.



I bet you've lots of contacts?


So many that I've had to pull the plug on some of them.

--
Moving things in still pictures

"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2012 11:36, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 24/01/2012 11:27, Bod wrote:
On 24/01/2012 11:26, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes


"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.



Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.


An electrifying experience?

Mike


Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!


Ah! I knew you couldn't resist that.


Well, I was ever a live wire.



I bet you've lots of contacts?

Watt ever next??? (I'm off ohm... anyone seen Joules?...)

--
Ian

"®i©ardo" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes


"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.



Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.


An electrifying experience?

Mike


Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!

I bet his brain hertz........

--
Ian

In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.


Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.

If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.

Those who want the ultimate penalty for such things rarely stop there,
given the chance. But then you're obviously too thick to work this out.

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.


Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.

If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.


Well you are supposed to hope for an epiphany and for him to become a
saintlike member of society selflessly serving the needs of others until
a perfect humanist socialist society ends all poverty and unhappiness.

Those who want the ultimate penalty for such things rarely stop there,
given the chance. But then you're obviously too thick to work this out.


Sadly if he doesn't have that epiphany, the greatest good for the
greatest number is often achieved by ensuring he doesn't get to do
anything ever again.

In essence the dichotomy is between the idealised notions of human kind
espoused by bourgeois thinkers, and the reality on the ground of the
human being as he is found to be.

In this case burnt to a crisp through ignorance, venality and incompetence.


The hunter gather lifestyle has always had its won natural selection if
something poisonous was gathered or something lethal was hunted.

QED

On Jan 24, 12:52*pm, "Ian" wrote:
"®i©ardo" wrote in message

...







On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes

"David in Normandy" wrote in message
e.fr...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.

Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

An electrifying experience?

Mike

Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!

I bet his brain hertz........

--
Ian

Actually for that short time he was the brightest in his class ;-)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.


Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.

If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.

I've been staying out of this until now, but I agree with that.

The penalty suffered here (As in the original pictures of cooked people)
wasn't for the attempted theft, it was for ignoring, whether knowingly
or not, the dangers involved in tampering with the laws of nature.
Unfortunately for some, the laws of nature show no mercy, and are not
subject to appeal. I can't check in this case now, as the pictures have
been "moved or deleted", but all the access points to high voltage
installations I've seen have warnings on them stating something like
"High voltage electricity kills". Here, at least, there are also fences
to keep out those who can't read, but not those who can't take a hint.
Even the razor wire mentioned elsewhere won't keep a determined
wrong-doer safe.

If they'd had the sense to try it with a wire that wasn't lethally live,
or taken the right precautions, they'd be alive today, and possibly, if
they'd been caught, paying whatever penalty the system deemed
appropriate. Like the many people stealing phone wiring in this country.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Despite all the bile spouted here, you're more likely to have an
'ordinary' power cut than one caused by cable theft.

It's more likely that you'll be killed in an accident than murdered, but
that doesn't reduce the seriousness of murder.

Bill

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Despite all the bile spouted here, you're more likely to have an
'ordinary' power cut than one caused by cable theft.

while that might be true - in the 40+ years wwee've lived here our phone
service has never failed due to a fault. (OK, in the Great Storm the
overhead line failed since a tree branch fell onto it. Yet, 3 times last
year we lost service because of cable theft.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

On 24/01/2012 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article366dnc6WufS2CIPSnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.


Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.

If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.

Those who want the ultimate penalty for such things rarely stop there,
given the chance. But then you're obviously too thick to work this out.


Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

How dare you have such contempt for society - a contempt at least as
great as those who commit such acts. The potential outcome is no
different to planting bombs amongst innocent civilians by the IRA.

I have nowhere suggested an "ultimate penalty" for them, but merely
pointed out that they have been the architects of their own destiny with
their inability to use what little they had by way of brains, doubtless
overridden by sheer greed. As such I cannot bring myself to grieve over
their departure from this mortal coil.

Spare me the humbug, please. if you wish to see them as martyrs at the
hands of society, then, sad to relate, that is your problem and yours alone.

--
Moving things in still pictures

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:06:23 +0000, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

Do you seriously believe that any sensible person would arrange things
so that their very life depended on the mains power not failing over a
protracted time? If so, perhaps they are more eligible for the
"Darwin award" than the people in question.

All electrically operated life-support machines invariably have an
alternate power source that will switch in automatically in the event
of a mains failure. Perhaps it will be a battery that will only last
an hour or so - in which case there ought to be a small generator or
some other contingency plan available for use in the event that the
mains is not restored in time. Quite a number of non-deliberate
events can cause power failures that last for several days - or in
extreme cases several weeks.

--
Cynic

In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

You seem to love making things up as I've never even implied that thieves
go unpunished.

How dare you have such contempt for society - a contempt at least as
great as those who commit such acts. The potential outcome is no
different to planting bombs amongst innocent civilians by the IRA.

There is no one potential outcome - it depends on circumstances.
Tell me, are you a headline writer for a tabloid? You seem to see things
in a black and white way.

You also should consider the difference between setting out to kill
someone and the possible result of a simple theft. But it's probably too
hard for you.

--
*Horn broken. - Watch for finger.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

You seem to love making things up as I've never even implied that thieves
go unpunished.

How dare you have such contempt for society - a contempt at least as
great as those who commit such acts. The potential outcome is no
different to planting bombs amongst innocent civilians by the IRA.

There is no one potential outcome - it depends on circumstances.
Tell me, are you a headline writer for a tabloid? You seem to see things
in a black and white way.

You also should consider the difference between setting out to kill
someone and the possible result of a simple theft. But it's probably too
hard for you.

That of course depends on whether you judge things according to motive
and responsibility, or results....

"A rattlesnake ain't reponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah puts mah
heel on em jess the same if I catches un around ma chillun"

Faced with a definitely deprived individual waving a loaded gun, are you
going to have a social philosophical discussion, or just fire first...

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
You also should consider the difference between setting out to kill
someone and the possible result of a simple theft. But it's probably
too hard for you.

That of course depends on whether you judge things according to motive
and responsibility, or results....

Quite. But it seems too hard for some here. They prefer the lynch
mentality.

--
*Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away! *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/01/2012 15:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article94ydnZob3fBUX4PSnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:
Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

You seem to love making things up as I've never even implied that thieves
go unpunished.


Nor have you suggested that they should be.

How dare you have such contempt for society - a contempt at least as
great as those who commit such acts. The potential outcome is no
different to planting bombs amongst innocent civilians by the IRA.

There is no one potential outcome - it depends on circumstances.

And those circumstances could well result in damage to innocent parties.

Tell me, are you a headline writer for a tabloid? You seem to see things
in a black and white way.


No, but that's probably a cleaner and more honest approach than, say,
the Guardian's.

You also should consider the difference between setting out to kill
someone and the possible result of a simple theft. But it's probably too
hard for you.


Not at all. But, if that "simple theft" does result in the death of an
innocent party, are you suggesting that we just accept it because that
wasn't the original intention? I would rather see you suggest that
criminals, major or minor, accept the consequences of their own actions,
especially if they impinge upon the lives of innocent people.

If, however, they manage to kill themselves in the course of their
illegal act it may serve as a warning to others.

Please remember that they have total freedom of choice in these matters
- their victims do not.

--
Moving things in still pictures

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
You also should consider the difference between setting out to kill
someone and the possible result of a simple theft. But it's probably
too hard for you.

That of course depends on whether you judge things according to motive
and responsibility, or results....

Quite. But it seems too hard for some here. They prefer the lynch
mentality.


Dead thieves don't steal.

If at some point the threat to society and the cost to society of live
ones exceeds any possible benefit to the race of preserving them..well
yes, its third Reich pragmatism. But it exists as a definite possibility.


A friend of mine had a child who became ill..ws taken to A & E where he
had a coughing fit, choked on his on vomit and died, but was (just)
resuscitated enough to be a screaming mental 2 year old until finally he
died at age 10 or so.

Her marriage collapsed, and her whole life became dominated by a court
case against the hospital for failing to come sooner and the exigencies
of bringing up a child that everyone knew would have been better off
dead for everybody bar the child, and no one ever managed to ask him
that question because he never learnt to talk.

So, what was the greatest good for the greatest number? Would his simple
death have not in fact been a whole lot better? In the end you are
always skating on thin ice when you enter the moral maze. There are no
clear answers at an intellectual level.

Moral Philosophy abounds with awkward questions like this. E.g. ten sick
people each need a different organ transplant that one healthy person
could provide..

The greatest good for the greatest number implies that one should kill
and organ strip the one healthy person in order to save the lives of the
other nine. On paper this is the optimal solution.

Discuss....

IF you have Faith of course, its GodsWill that the 9 die, and the one
survives. Atheism gives you no such guideline...

On Jan 24, 1:32*pm, John Williamson
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
* *®i©ardo wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.

Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.

If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.

I've been staying out of this until now, but I agree with that.

The penalty suffered here (As in the original pictures of cooked people)
wasn't for the attempted theft, it was for ignoring, whether knowingly
or not, the dangers involved in tampering with the laws of nature.
Unfortunately for some, the laws of nature show no mercy, and are not
subject to appeal. I can't check in this case now, as the pictures have
been "moved or deleted", but all the access points to high voltage
installations I've seen have warnings on them stating something like
"High voltage electricity kills".

it's a pity they don;t have such pictures along side the words like
they do on ciggerette packets.
i.e keep breaking in or go past this and this is could be your future.

Here, at least, there are also fences
to keep out those who can't read, but not those who can't take a hint.
Even the razor wire mentioned elsewhere won't keep a determined
wrong-doer safe.

If they'd had the sense to try it with a wire that wasn't lethally live,
or taken the right precautions, they'd be alive today, and possibly, if
they'd been caught, paying whatever penalty the system deemed
appropriate. Like the many people stealing phone wiring in this country.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:40:20 +0000, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=AEi=A9ardo?=
wrote:

Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

Considering that the police investigation that is the result of the
deaths will delay the repair compared with the situation if the
thieves had got away, ISTM that it is *you* who doesn't care about the
increase to the disruption so long as the thieves suffer bad
consequences.

--
Cynic

On Jan 24, 3:01*pm, (Cynic) wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:06:23 +0000, Frank Erskine

wrote:
Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

Do you seriously believe that any sensible person would arrange things
so that their very life depended on the mains power not failing over a
protracted time? *If so, perhaps they are more eligible for the
"Darwin award" than the people in question.

Most don;t have that option.
I would hope few people are in this position.


All electrically operated life-support machines invariably have an
alternate power source that will switch in automatically in the event
of a mains failure.

Few trains have this and what if teh doctor or suregeon should be
stuck on one of these trains.
People have been stuck on trains for hours.


*Perhaps it will be a battery that will only last
an hour or so - in which case there ought to be a small generator or
some other contingency plan available for use in the event that the
mains is not restored in time. *Quite a number of non-deliberate
events can cause power failures that last for several days - or in
extreme cases several weeks.

yes and there's usually little backup.


--
Cynic

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:43:51 +0000, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=AEi=A9ardo?=
wrote:

Not at all. But, if that "simple theft" does result in the death of an
innocent party, are you suggesting that we just accept it because that
wasn't the original intention? I would rather see you suggest that
criminals, major or minor, accept the consequences of their own actions,
especially if they impinge upon the lives of innocent people.

If, however, they manage to kill themselves in the course of their
illegal act it may serve as a warning to others.

Please remember that they have total freedom of choice in these matters
- their victims do not.

Do you feel the same way about a criminal who drives his car at 45 MPH
in a 40 MPH limit? It could result in death. Even parking in a
no-parking area could result in death. Do you therefore similarly
wish death on drivers who break the speed limit, and people with
parking infringements?

--
Cynic

whisky-dave wrote:
On Jan 24, 1:32 pm, John Williamson
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.
Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.
If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.
I've been staying out of this until now, but I agree with that.

The penalty suffered here (As in the original pictures of cooked people)
wasn't for the attempted theft, it was for ignoring, whether knowingly
or not, the dangers involved in tampering with the laws of nature.
Unfortunately for some, the laws of nature show no mercy, and are not
subject to appeal. I can't check in this case now, as the pictures have
been "moved or deleted", but all the access points to high voltage
installations I've seen have warnings on them stating something like
"High voltage electricity kills".

it's a pity they don;t have such pictures along side the words like
they do on ciggerette packets.
i.e keep breaking in or go past this and this is could be your future.

Or maybe a yellow triangular sign with a picture of a dead person under
a lightning bolt? Like the ones I see all over Europe?

The pictures shown here would frighten people who aren't planning on
doing any wrong, and the general feeling among those who are planning to
do wrong is "It won't happen to me, because it didn't happen to my mate
when he did it.".

My point is mainly that no matter what you do to protect people,
evolution still happens.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 24/01/2012 14:40, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 24/01/2012 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article366dnc6WufS2CIPSnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.


Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their
actions.

If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.

Those who want the ultimate penalty for such things rarely stop there,
given the chance. But then you're obviously too thick to work this out.


Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

Don't talk ****e. Nobody is saying that there should be no punishment,
only that the death penalty is inappropriate.

In article , lid says...

Faced with a definitely deprived individual waving a loaded gun, are you
going to have a social philosophical discussion, or just fire first...

Having experienced that situation twice I recommend social philosophical
discussion. Worked for me.


Janet

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:25:14 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Steve O wrote:
No power, no phone service, no signalling on roads and railways, no
train services (etc). No, I simply can't see how the disruption of any
of these services could possible put lives at risk.

You forgot about hospital equipment, ventilators in the home, etc.
The OP obviously doesn't realize that power cuts can kill people.

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes?

For programmed shut-downs, mobile generators are usually provided . Kidney
machines are highlighted on operational control diagrams.

Bill
--
Frank Erskine

Janet wrote:
In article , lid says...

Faced with a definitely deprived individual waving a loaded gun, are you
going to have a social philosophical discussion, or just fire first...

Having experienced that situation twice I recommend social philosophical
discussion. Worked for me.


Well it also worked for me, but I didn't HAVE a gun...



Janet

"Cynic" wrote in message
news:4f1ec554.867732609@localhost...
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:06:23 +0000, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power
is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

Do you seriously believe that any sensible person would arrange things
so that their very life depended on the mains power not failing over a
protracted time? If so, perhaps they are more eligible for the
"Darwin award" than the people in question.

All electrically operated life-support machines invariably have an
alternate power source that will switch in automatically in the event
of a mains failure.

Dream on!

Bill
--
Cynic

On 24/01/2012 16:15, Cynic wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:43:51 +0000, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=AEi=A9ardo?=
wrote:

Not at all. But, if that "simple theft" does result in the death of an
innocent party, are you suggesting that we just accept it because that
wasn't the original intention? I would rather see you suggest that
criminals, major or minor, accept the consequences of their own actions,
especially if they impinge upon the lives of innocent people.

If, however, they manage to kill themselves in the course of their
illegal act it may serve as a warning to others.

Please remember that they have total freedom of choice in these matters
- their victims do not.

Do you feel the same way about a criminal who drives his car at 45 MPH
in a 40 MPH limit? It could result in death. Even parking in a
no-parking area could result in death.

Please cite a few examples.

Do you therefore similarly
wish death on drivers who break the speed limit, and people with
parking infringements?


I've not "wished death" on anyone, although some might have wished it
upon themselves.

As you may be aware, there are penalties available for exceeding the
speed limit, as there are for illegal parking regardless or whether an
accident ensues, such penalties being more severe when an accident
occurs for the reason stated. Never having received such a penalty in
nearly fifty years of driving, however, I'll be guided by those who
obviously have fallen foul of the law.

You may think it a good idea to kill speeding drivers, but I'll keep an
open mind on it.

--
Moving things in still pictures