2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put both lights
on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the circuits aren't complex, the
colours seem to be variable. The only tip I had was from Adam re. using
incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including the
Wiki, are using the old colours.
I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and almost all
digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly find any
Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I think that the
wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK, but...!

http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put both lights
on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the circuits aren't complex, the
colours seem to be variable. The only tip I had was from Adam re. using
incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including the
Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and almost all
digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly find any
Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I think that the
wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK, but...!

http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it looks
close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put both
lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the circuits
aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The only tip I had
was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including
the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I
think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK,
but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would normally use
two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but that is not a rule. I
have done similar installs where I was passing the cables through existing
conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core and earth cables and there had to be
no damage to the downstairs walls.

--
Adam

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On 15/01/2012 19:35, ARWadsworth wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put both
lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the circuits
aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The only tip I had
was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including
the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I
think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK,
but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would normally use
two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but that is not a rule. I
have done similar installs where I was passing the cables through existing
conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core and earth cables and there had to be
no damage to the downstairs walls.


I have a query regarding lighting....

in my house, the hall light is powered from the downstairs lighting MCB
at the CU. The landing light is powered from the Upstairs lighting MCB
at the CU. I have at both the landing and the hall 2 gang 2 way
switches, allowing me to control both lights from both locations.

Is that still allowed within the wiring regs as there is no physical
separation between the two lighting circuits within the metal back boxes?

Regards,

Stephen.

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

Stephen H wrote:
On 15/01/2012 19:35, ARWadsworth wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put
both lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the
circuits aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The only
tip I had was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including
the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I
think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK,
but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would
normally use two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but
that is not a rule. I have done similar installs where I was passing
the cables through existing conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core
and earth cables and there had to be no damage to the downstairs
walls.

I have a query regarding lighting....

in my house, the hall light is powered from the downstairs lighting
MCB at the CU. The landing light is powered from the Upstairs
lighting MCB at the CU. I have at both the landing and the hall 2
gang 2 way switches, allowing me to control both lights from both
locations.
Is that still allowed within the wiring regs as there is no physical
separation between the two lighting circuits within the metal back
boxes?

The answer is a very simple "YES, it is allowed".

You will not be the first or last to ask that one:-)

--
Adam

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On 15/01/2012 22:11, ARWadsworth wrote:
Stephen H wrote:
On 15/01/2012 19:35, ARWadsworth wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put
both lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the
circuits aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The only
tip I had was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including
the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I
think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK,
but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would
normally use two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but
that is not a rule. I have done similar installs where I was passing
the cables through existing conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core
and earth cables and there had to be no damage to the downstairs
walls.

I have a query regarding lighting....

in my house, the hall light is powered from the downstairs lighting
MCB at the CU. The landing light is powered from the Upstairs
lighting MCB at the CU. I have at both the landing and the hall 2
gang 2 way switches, allowing me to control both lights from both
locations.
Is that still allowed within the wiring regs as there is no physical
separation between the two lighting circuits within the metal back
boxes?

The answer is a very simple "YES, it is allowed".

You will not be the first or last to ask that one:-)


well I am pleasantly surprised given that if you wish to work on the
light switch, you have to de-energise *two* lighting circuits for safety
reasons......

Stephen

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

Stephen H wrote:
On 15/01/2012 22:11, ARWadsworth wrote:
Stephen H wrote:
On 15/01/2012 19:35, ARWadsworth wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put
both lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the
circuits aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The
only tip I had was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them,
including the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png.
I think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are
OK, but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would
normally use two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but
that is not a rule. I have done similar installs where I was
passing the cables through existing conduit that would not take 2
x 3 core and earth cables and there had to be no damage to the
downstairs walls.

I have a query regarding lighting....

in my house, the hall light is powered from the downstairs lighting
MCB at the CU. The landing light is powered from the Upstairs
lighting MCB at the CU. I have at both the landing and the hall 2
gang 2 way switches, allowing me to control both lights from both
locations.
Is that still allowed within the wiring regs as there is no physical
separation between the two lighting circuits within the metal back
boxes?

The answer is a very simple "YES, it is allowed".

You will not be the first or last to ask that one:-)


well I am pleasantly surprised given that if you wish to work on the
light switch, you have to de-energise *two* lighting circuits for
safety reasons......

I sometimes have to de-energise more than two circuits to change a
lightswitch:-)


--
Adam

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On 15/01/2012 22:15, Stephen H wrote:
On 15/01/2012 22:11, ARWadsworth wrote:
Stephen H wrote:
On 15/01/2012 19:35, ARWadsworth wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put
both lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the
circuits aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The only
tip I had was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including
the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I
think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK,
but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would
normally use two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but
that is not a rule. I have done similar installs where I was passing
the cables through existing conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core
and earth cables and there had to be no damage to the downstairs
walls.

I have a query regarding lighting....

in my house, the hall light is powered from the downstairs lighting
MCB at the CU. The landing light is powered from the Upstairs
lighting MCB at the CU. I have at both the landing and the hall 2
gang 2 way switches, allowing me to control both lights from both
locations.
Is that still allowed within the wiring regs as there is no physical
separation between the two lighting circuits within the metal back
boxes?

The answer is a very simple "YES, it is allowed".

You will not be the first or last to ask that one:-)


well I am pleasantly surprised given that if you wish to work on the
light switch, you have to de-energise *two* lighting circuits for safety
reasons......


Just one of those things to be aware of if poking about in the back of
switches.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 18:38:56 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put both lights
on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the circuits aren't complex, the
colours seem to be variable. The only tip I had was from Adam re. using
incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including the
Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

Not sure now - looked at a lot and none was as I wanted. Most are as this
one, as they show a light from each switch.

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and almost all
digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly find any
Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I think that the
wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK, but...!

http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it looks
close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

By using the strapper I can get the cables into the conduit - live is live
(on single phase :-) )
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:11:50 -0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Stephen H wrote:
On 15/01/2012 19:35, ARWadsworth wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put
both lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the
circuits aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The only
tip I had was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including
the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I
think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK,
but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would
normally use two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but
that is not a rule. I have done similar installs where I was passing
the cables through existing conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core
and earth cables and there had to be no damage to the downstairs
walls.

I have a query regarding lighting....

in my house, the hall light is powered from the downstairs lighting
MCB at the CU. The landing light is powered from the Upstairs
lighting MCB at the CU. I have at both the landing and the hall 2
gang 2 way switches, allowing me to control both lights from both
locations.
Is that still allowed within the wiring regs as there is no physical
separation between the two lighting circuits within the metal back
boxes?

The answer is a very simple "YES, it is allowed".

You will not be the first or last to ask that one:-)

At the cost of much effort and some skin from my hands I've put both of
mine, including Neutrals, on the downstairs circuit. Although the upstairs
circuit at the time had less load, I've since put 77W of CFLs in the loft
(~150VA) and if I fit outside lights they'll be under the eaves so that
they're aimed down and don't dazzle people in adjacent gardens.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:35:51 -0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put both
lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the circuits
aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The only tip I had
was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including
the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I
think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK,
but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would normally use
two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but that is not a rule. I
have done similar installs where I was passing the cables through existing
conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core and earth cables and there had to be
no damage to the downstairs walls.

That's the main reason - the cables!
Been fun trying to get it all in the patress: 13 wires+sleeving+strap and,
if I change the second fitting to one that needs an Earth...!
I'm using patresses that are nominally 19mm; I've a 20mm but the base is
thicker than usual. Dropped lucky by looking at MK plates, as the terminals
are angled so no wires need to pass behind the switches themselves.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:35:51 -0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2012 16:31, PeterC wrote:
After asking about running Neutral to a switch I decided to put
both lights on to 2-way. Looked for diagrams - although the
circuits aren't complex, the colours seem to be variable. The only
tip I had was from Adam re. using incoming grey as Neutral.
Looked at several diagrams that I found and most of them, including
the Wiki, are using the old colours.

Which wiki were you looking in? Ours uses new colours:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Way_Switching

I also want to run the supply and both lights from one switch and
almost all digrams show one light from each switch.
Anyway, I've done a diagram in LibreOffice Draw (couldn't quickly
find any Freeware for the purpose) and have put it up as a .png. I
think that the wires aren't crossed and that the colours are OK,
but...! http://tinypic.com/r/2ntlnpt/5

If you visualise the "landing light" at the other switch, then it
looks close to being a functional equal to:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/5/5...itchingSml.gif

with the exception you have shared a permanent live strapper...

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would
normally use two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but
that is not a rule. I have done similar installs where I was passing
the cables through existing conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core
and earth cables and there had to be no damage to the downstairs
walls.

That's the main reason - the cables!
Been fun trying to get it all in the patress: 13 wires+sleeving+strap
and, if I change the second fitting to one that needs an Earth...!
I'm using patresses that are nominally 19mm; I've a 20mm but the base
is thicker than usual. Dropped lucky by looking at MK plates, as the
terminals are angled so no wires need to pass behind the switches
themselves.

Only 13 wires including the earth!

The next time I go behind a 24 module grid switch will take a photo:-)

--
Adam

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 22:20:19 -0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

But the circuit looks fine. It is unconventional as you would
normally use two 3 core and earth cables between the switches, but
that is not a rule. I have done similar installs where I was passing
the cables through existing conduit that would not take 2 x 3 core
and earth cables and there had to be no damage to the downstairs
walls.

That's the main reason - the cables!
Been fun trying to get it all in the patress: 13 wires+sleeving+strap
and, if I change the second fitting to one that needs an Earth...!
I'm using patresses that are nominally 19mm; I've a 20mm but the base
is thicker than usual. Dropped lucky by looking at MK plates, as the
terminals are angled so no wires need to pass behind the switches
themselves.

Only 13 wires including the earth!

The next time I go behind a 24 module grid switch will take a photo:-)

Is that module in a 1-gang patress then? I was seriously tempted by a 25mm
box, I must admit.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:21:42 -0800 (PST), Owain wrote:

On Jan 16, 10:20*pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote:
The next time I go behind a 24 module grid switch will take a photo:-)

I know plumbers pee in loft tanks but really ...

Owain

Perhaps he's a crap photographer!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

2-way switching and Neutral as well!
 

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:21:42 -0800 (PST), Owain wrote:

The next time I go behind a 24 module grid switch will take a
photo:-)

I know plumbers pee in loft tanks but really ...

It's OK Adam knows to switch off, isolate, dump and earth.

--
Cheers
Dave.