|
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
Folks,
I recently replaced the shaver socket in the bathroom, and boy ... do I feel cheated. The old unit had two outputs one labeled 110v the other 220v with an external switch to select one or the other. I have both an electric toothbrush and an electric shaver and I was fed up having to keep track of which was being charged and for how long. So I replaced it with a 2 gang MK shaver socket from B&Q which had two outputs and no switch, one marked 110 and 220. Since both my devices will run on either 110 or 220 I intended to plug in both simultaneously and it would not matter about the different supply levels. However it turns out the MK unit was switched, it had an hidden internal mechanism operated by insetting a plug. Only one of the sockets can be used at a time. A real pain. This was not marked on the packaging anywhere. I phoned MK and they gave all kinds of guff as to why things were the way they were. Interestingly the support guy did admit that these devices were designed decades ago and were not intended for continuous use, even if this continuous use only involved having to support trickle chargers. Some shaver sockets tended to overheat and would cut out, if say a shaver was left continuously plugged in! This has apparently been fixed. However my question is has anybody hacked these units to allow both sockets to be used simultaneously? I am interested in any thoughts as to wiring the transformer's output to both sockets, and bypassing or disabling the switch. Assuming the transformer only has one secondary winding which is tapped to provide the 110v output. Should I use the 110 or 240 winding? Thoughts? |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Jan 9, 7:14*pm, (Fergus McMenemie)
wrote: Folks, I recently replaced the shaver socket in the bathroom, and boy ... do I feel cheated. The old unit had two outputs one labeled 110v the other 220v with an external switch to select one or the other. I have both an electric toothbrush and an electric shaver and I was fed up having to keep track of which was being charged and for how long. So I replaced it with a 2 gang MK shaver socket from B&Q which had two outputs and no switch, one marked 110 and 220. Since both my devices will run on either 110 or 220 I intended to plug in both simultaneously and it would not matter about the different supply levels. However it turns out the MK unit was switched, it had an hidden internal mechanism operated by insetting a plug. Only one of the sockets can be used at a time. A real pain. This was not marked on the packaging anywhere. I phoned MK and they gave all kinds of guff as to why things were the way they were. Interestingly the support guy did admit that these devices were designed decades ago and were not intended for continuous use, even if this continuous use only involved having to support trickle chargers. Some shaver sockets tended to overheat and would cut out, if say a shaver was left continuously plugged in! This has apparently been fixed. However my question is has anybody hacked these units to allow both sockets to be used simultaneously? I am interested in any thoughts as to wiring the transformer's output to both sockets, and bypassing or disabling the switch. Assuming the transformer only has one secondary winding which is tapped to provide the 110v output. Should I use the 110 or 240 winding? Thoughts? There is a single 1:1 transformer inside. The secondary is centre tapped to give the 110 volts. So if you used both sockets simultaneously you would overload the common part of the transformer wire. So the switch is fixed so you can't. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
Fergus McMenemie wrote:
Thoughts? Not that I think two simultaneous charging devices will overload the thing, but how about removing the switch and making both sockets 110v by using the centre tap as a common to both sockets and each end of the xformer as the supply rails? -- Scott Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket? |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
|
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
Scott M wrote:
ergus McMenemie wrote: Thoughts? Not that I think two simultaneous charging devices will overload the thing, but how about removing the switch and making both sockets 110v by using the centre tap as a common to both sockets and each end of the xformer as the supply rails? -- Scott Duh... thanks! |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
|
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 20:03:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 19:56:36 +0000, (Fergus McMenemie) wrote: Scott M wrote: ergus McMenemie wrote: Thoughts? Not that I think two simultaneous charging devices will overload the thing, but how about removing the switch and making both sockets 110v by using the centre tap as a common to both sockets and each end of the xformer as the supply rails? -- Scott Duh... thanks! What happens if you drop the shaver in the bath while the toothbrush is in your mouth and you are holding the tap? Probably nothing, I know but safety is about unlikely sets of occurrences. OK bad example as a toothbrush is likely to be cordless, but consider two wired appliances. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In article ,
Graham. writes: On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 19:56:36 +0000, (Fergus McMenemie) wrote: Scott M wrote: ergus McMenemie wrote: Thoughts? Not that I think two simultaneous charging devices will overload the thing, but how about removing the switch and making both sockets 110v by using the centre tap as a common to both sockets and each end of the xformer as the supply rails? -- Scott Duh... thanks! What happens if you drop the shaver in the bath while the toothbrush is in your mouth and you are holding the tap? That is why they are designed to allow connection of only one device. Probably nothing, I know but safety is about unlikely sets of occurrences. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
|
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Jan 9, 7:14*pm, (Fergus McMenemie)
wrote: Folks, I recently replaced the shaver socket in the bathroom, and boy ... do I feel cheated. The old unit had two outputs one labeled 110v the other 220v with an external switch to select one or the other. I have both an electric toothbrush and an electric shaver and I was fed up having to keep track of which was being charged and for how long. So I replaced it with a 2 gang MK shaver socket from B&Q which had two outputs and no switch, one marked 110 and 220. Since both my devices will run on either 110 or 220 I intended to plug in both simultaneously and it would not matter about the different supply levels. However it turns out the MK unit was switched, it had an hidden internal mechanism operated by insetting a plug. Only one of the sockets can be used at a time. A real pain. This was not marked on the packaging anywhere. I phoned MK and they gave all kinds of guff as to why things were the way they were. Interestingly the support guy did admit that these devices were designed decades ago and were not intended for continuous use, even if this continuous use only involved having to support trickle chargers. Some shaver sockets tended to overheat and would cut out, if say a shaver was left continuously plugged in! This has apparently been fixed. However my question is has anybody hacked these units to allow both sockets to be used simultaneously? I am interested in any thoughts as to wiring the transformer's output to both sockets, and bypassing or disabling the switch. Assuming the transformer only has one secondary winding which is tapped to provide the 110v output. Should I use the 110 or 240 winding? Thoughts? A bit OT, but I find trickle charging cordless devices heats the batteries and reduces their life a lot. Better let them discharge fully before charging and they should go for a decade. No doubt others will disagree. rusty |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
Running two devices off an isolating transformer negates the point of
having one. -- *If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Jan 9, 8:03*pm, Graham. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 19:56:36 +0000, (Fergus McMenemie) wrote: Scott M wrote: ergus McMenemie wrote: Thoughts? Not that I think two simultaneous charging devices will overload the thing, but how about removing the switch and making both sockets 110v by using the centre tap as a common to both sockets and each end of the xformer as the supply rails? -- Scott Duh... thanks! What happens if you drop the shaver in the bath while the toothbrush is in your mouth and you are holding the tap? Probably nothing, I know but safety is about unlikely sets of occurrences. -- Graham. %Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That is the point of the transformer. The secondary side is not earthed so you can't get a shock. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
Graham. wrote:
What happens if you drop the shaver in the bath while the toothbrush is in your mouth and you are holding the tap? Probably nothing, I know but safety is about unlikely sets of occurrences. Well I would need to fit another shaver socket or move the existing one... however point taken. But both my shaver and toothbrush are cordless. But is your scenario any different from using the shavers single output and droping the charger into a sink full of water while holding the tap? Given the above scenario above I do wonder if my houses built in current leakage protection is better than the decades old isolation transformer technology that is built into shaver sockets. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Running two devices off an isolating transformer negates the point of having one. Why? Is this based on a worst case of it being able to touch any single wire safely? Touching two wires would still give a sock, isolating transformer or not? |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:02:42 -0800 (PST), therustyone wrote:
A bit OT, but I find trickle charging cordless devices heats the batteries and reduces their life a lot. Better let them discharge fully before charging and they should go for a decade. No doubt others will disagree. rusty Probably not a toothbrush - mine doesn't get even luke warm even if it's on charge for 6 hours past full. I do tend to wait until the light starts flashing before recharging as it's not inconvenient and avoids the requirement for a full discharge every X months. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On 09/01/2012 19:14, Fergus McMenemie wrote:
Folks, I recently replaced the shaver socket in the bathroom, and boy ... do I feel cheated. The old unit had two outputs one labeled 110v the other 220v with an external switch to select one or the other. I have both an electric toothbrush and an electric shaver and I was fed up having to keep track of which was being charged and for how long. So I replaced it with a 2 gang MK shaver socket from B&Q which had two outputs and no switch, one marked 110 and 220. Since both my devices will run on either 110 or 220 I intended to plug in both simultaneously and it would not matter about the different supply levels. However it turns out the MK unit was switched, it had an hidden internal mechanism operated by insetting a plug. Only one of the sockets can be used at a time. A real pain. This was not marked on the packaging anywhere. I phoned MK and they gave all kinds of guff as to why things were the way they were. Interestingly the support guy did admit that these devices were designed decades ago and were not intended for continuous use, even if this continuous use only involved having to support trickle chargers. Some shaver sockets tended to overheat and would cut out, if say a shaver was left continuously plugged in! This has apparently been fixed. However my question is has anybody hacked these units to allow both sockets to be used simultaneously? I am interested in any thoughts as to wiring the transformer's output to both sockets, and bypassing or disabling the switch. Assuming the transformer only has one secondary winding which is tapped to provide the 110v output. Should I use the 110 or 240 winding? Thoughts? These shaver sockets are current limited anyway but, assuming it can support both devices simultaneously, why not just use a two-way adapter? That's how I power my toothbrush and radio off a single socket. Actually, mine is a 3-way adapter which I think I bought in Indonesia - but I assume they are available here. Something like http://www1.conrad-uk.com/scripts/wg...id=&cookie _n[1]=uk_insert&cookie_v[1]=89&cookie_d[1]=&cookie_p[1]=%2f&cookie_e[1]=Sat%2c+11-Feb-2012+10%3a43%3a27+GMT&scrwidth=1280 perhaps - but I'm not sure of the significance of "earthing socket" in the description. Mine isn't! -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
What happens if you drop the shaver in the bath while the toothbrush is in your mouth and you are holding the tap? Probably nothing, I know but safety is about unlikely sets of occurrences. -- Graham. %Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That is the point of the transformer. The secondary side is not earthed so you can't get a shock. Yes, but my shaver is now half submerged in bath water in such a way as to create a low resistance path from one side of the tranny to deck. Now what? -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 23:15:27 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: Running two devices off an isolating transformer negates the point of having one. Increases the likelihood of a hazardous situation arising. But it does negate the point of having a transformer in one important sense, in my shaver in the bath scenario the transformer prevents the upstream RCD from tripping even though the victim is getting a shock to earth. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In message
, harry writes On Jan 9, 8:03*pm, Graham. wrote: On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 19:56:36 +0000, (Fergus McMenemie) wrote: Scott M wrote: ergus McMenemie wrote: Thoughts? Not that I think two simultaneous charging devices will overload the thing, but how about removing the switch and making both sockets 110v by using the centre tap as a common to both sockets and each end of the xformer as the supply rails? -- Scott Duh... thanks! What happens if you drop the shaver in the bath while the toothbrush is in your mouth and you are holding the tap? Probably nothing, I know but safety is about unlikely sets of occurrences. -- Graham. %Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That is the point of the transformer. The secondary side is not earthed so you can't get a shock. What happens if you simultaneously stick a finger in each outlet pin on the 240 volt side? -- hugh |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In message , PeterC
writes On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:02:42 -0800 (PST), therustyone wrote: A bit OT, but I find trickle charging cordless devices heats the batteries and reduces their life a lot. Better let them discharge fully before charging and they should go for a decade. No doubt others will disagree. rusty Probably not a toothbrush - mine doesn't get even luke warm even if it's on charge for 6 hours past full. I do tend to wait until the light starts flashing before recharging as it's not inconvenient and avoids the requirement for a full discharge every X months. Tooth brush is inductive charging, very low power. -- hugh |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
These shaver sockets are current limited anyway but, assuming it can support both devices simultaneously, why not just use a two-way adapter? That's how I power my toothbrush and radio off a single socket. Actually, mine is a 3-way adapter which I think I bought in Indonesia - but I assume they are available here. Something like http://www1.conrad-uk.com/scripts/wg...id=&cookie _n[1]=uk_insert&cookie_v[1]=89&cookie_d[1]=&cookie_p[1]=%2f&cookie_e[1]=Sat%2c+11-Feb-2012+10%3a43%3a27+GMT&scrwidth=1280 perhaps - but I'm not sure of the significance of "earthing socket" in the description. Mine isn't! Modern double insulated stuff is very safe, but I hope I have showed you that using two appliances must increase the risk, however slight, of getting the secondary of that transformer across your heart. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
Graham. wrote:
What happens if you drop the shaver in the bath while the toothbrush is in your mouth and you are holding the tap? Probably nothing, I know but safety is about unlikely sets of occurrences. And another thing.... would I not need three hands! Very dangerous. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In article ,
Fergus McMenemie wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Running two devices off an isolating transformer negates the point of having one. Why? Is this based on a worst case of it being able to touch any single wire safely? Touching two wires would still give a sock, isolating transformer or not? It does assume you have two faulty devices, etc. However, the isolation transformer is only needed if a device is faulty. -- *One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In message , Graham.
writes What happens if you drop the shaver in the bath while the toothbrush is in your mouth and you are holding the tap? Probably nothing, I know but safety is about unlikely sets of occurrences. -- Graham. %Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That is the point of the transformer. The secondary side is not earthed so you can't get a shock. Yes, but my shaver is now half submerged in bath water in such a way as to create a low resistance path from one side of the tranny to deck. Now what? The other side is 240v away. Get in the bath and stick your finger in that side and if you are still alive come back and tell us about your experience. -- hugh |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In message , Graham.
writes On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 23:15:27 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: Running two devices off an isolating transformer negates the point of having one. Increases the likelihood of a hazardous situation arising. But it does negate the point of having a transformer in one important sense, in my shaver in the bath scenario the transformer prevents the upstream RCD from tripping even though the victim is getting a shock to earth. Not if you're referring to your latest post they're not. To get a shock the person has to be across both output pins of the transformer. Either pin can be dragged to earth without a shock. That's why it's called an isolating transformer. -- hugh |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
"hugh" ] wrote in message ... The other side is 240v away. Get in the bath and stick your finger in that side and if you are still alive come back and tell us about your experience. I don't think 240V is that bad. I did drop a live light socket on a lead into a fish tank and put my hand in when I tried to catch it. At best it was a tingle and all the fish just swam about as normal. I don't think I will do it again but I was only about 10 at the time. Of course statistically its insignificant and YMMV. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
dennis@home wrote:
I did drop a live light socket on a lead into a fish tank and put my hand in Darwin was at least trying ... |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Jan 11, 12:49*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
dennis@home wrote: I did drop a live light socket on a lead into a fish tank and put my hand in Darwin was at least trying ... The result would have been far more interesting if the fish had been salt water fish. Fresh water is not a particularly good conductor of electricity. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
"Martin Bonner" wrote in message ... On Jan 11, 12:49 pm, Andy Burns wrote: dennis@home wrote: I did drop a live light socket on a lead into a fish tank and put my hand in Darwin was at least trying ... The result would have been far more interesting if the fish had been salt water fish. Fresh water is not a particularly good conductor of electricity. You don't think that the fish waste products are conductive then? |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:13:24 +0000, Graham. wrote:
Increases the likelihood of a hazardous situation arising. But it does negate the point of having a transformer in one important sense, in my shaver in the bath scenario the transformer prevents the upstream RCD from tripping even though the victim is getting a shock to earth. I've been reading this thread and I'm left wondering two things: These isolating transformers seem to have been around for decades, whereas RCDs seem to be a more recent invention. Reading Graham's comments (above) is there an argument that bathrooms would be safer if the socket had no transformer and was wired direct to a 30mS RCD? The other thing I wondered was if the OP decided to fir two isolating sockets, one for each device, or if you had a big bathroom with his and hers sinks and each had its own socket, would two sockets be just as dangerous as running two appliances from one socket? I'm not an electrician, so I don't know but as the output from the two transformers would be in phase, if you held pole 1 on socket 1 and pole 2 on socket 2, would that have the same unpleasant effects as holding poles 1 and 2 on the same socket or am I barking up the wrong tree (if so, I did say IANAE) TIA |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In article ,
Fred wrote: The other thing I wondered was if the OP decided to fir two isolating sockets, one for each device, or if you had a big bathroom with his and hers sinks and each had its own socket, would two sockets be just as dangerous as running two appliances from one socket? Two isolating transformers are the way to do it. You can safety touch one wire from each of them. -- *I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 18:50:52 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: Two isolating transformers are the way to do it. You can safety touch one wire from each of them. Thanks. I never knew that. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In article ,
Fred writes: I've been reading this thread and I'm left wondering two things: These isolating transformers seem to have been around for decades, whereas RCDs seem to be a more recent invention. Reading Graham's comments (above) is there an argument that bathrooms would be safer if the socket had no transformer and was wired direct to a 30mS RCD? Isolating transformers are designed to fail safe even in a burn-out scenario. When RCD's fail it's usually unsafe, and silently. (Fortunately, RCD's in the EU don't fail at anything like the rate they do in the US.) The other thing I wondered was if the OP decided to fir two isolating sockets, one for each device, or if you had a big bathroom with his and hers sinks and each had its own socket, would two sockets be just as dangerous as running two appliances from one socket? No, separate isolating transformer per appliance is the correct way to do it. I'm not an electrician, so I don't know but as the output from the two transformers would be in phase, if you held pole 1 on socket 1 and pole 2 on socket 2, would that have the same unpleasant effects as holding poles 1 and 2 on the same socket or am I barking up the wrong tree (if so, I did say IANAE) It would be safe. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Monday, January 9, 2012 at 7:14:21 PM UTC, Fergus McMenemie wrote:
Folks, I recently replaced the shaver socket in the bathroom, and boy ... do I feel cheated. The old unit had two outputs one labeled 110v the other 220v with an external switch to select one or the other. I have both an electric toothbrush and an electric shaver and I was fed up having to keep track of which was being charged and for how long. So I replaced it with a 2 gang MK shaver socket from B&Q which had two outputs and no switch, one marked 110 and 220. Since both my devices will run on either 110 or 220 I intended to plug in both simultaneously and it would not matter about the different supply levels. However it turns out the MK unit was switched, it had an hidden internal mechanism operated by insetting a plug. Only one of the sockets can be used at a time. A real pain. This was not marked on the packaging anywhere. I phoned MK and they gave all kinds of guff as to why things were the way they were. Interestingly the support guy did admit that these devices were designed decades ago and were not intended for continuous use, even if this continuous use only involved having to support trickle chargers. Some shaver sockets tended to overheat and would cut out, if say a shaver was left continuously plugged in! This has apparently been fixed. However my question is has anybody hacked these units to allow both sockets to be used simultaneously? I am interested in any thoughts as to wiring the transformer's output to both sockets, and bypassing or disabling the switch. Assuming the transformer only has one secondary winding which is tapped to provide the 110v output. Should I use the 110 or 240 winding? Thoughts? I am using electric toothbrush and Internet radio at the same tie my my bathroom, the one i am using works well! |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
.. Some shaver sockets
tended to overheat and would cut out, if say a shaver was left continuously plugged in! This has apparently been fixed. Slightly worrying - my 1988 house has a MK Socket and there is always a toothbrush plugged in, |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:44:47 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote: . Some shaver sockets tended to overheat and would cut out, if say a shaver was left continuously plugged in! This has apparently been fixed. Slightly worrying - my 1988 house has a MK Socket and there is always a toothbrush plugged in, Per my other thread, I fitted a double Schuko socket (not inside the bathroom) which solves such problems. |
hacking MK dual gang shaver sockets!
In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote: . Some shaver sockets tended to overheat and would cut out, if say a shaver was left continuously plugged in! This has apparently been fixed. Slightly worrying - my 1988 house has a MK Socket and there is always a toothbrush plugged in, It would be a very poor transformer indeed which came to harm due to being powered up at all times with no load - think a bell transformer. These shaver outlets often hum. Having it switched when not in use stops this. -- *The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:47 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter